I said that I can refute you point for point at the risk of appearing arrogant, because, well, I actually can. Your points are ignorant of the facts, disingenuous, and nonsensical. Yes, some of my refutations would consist of opinion, but that doesn't mean I can't refute you.
What am I trying to say? It's pretty clear; you're dishonestly arguing and pretending that anyone who disagrees with you behaves like the examples you presented. I for one am not behavi...
@Iam
Now you're just grasping.
You're trying to make a statue out of Joel; saying that he could only possibly behave one way; that he couldn't grow more trusting over time, that he could never possibly let his guard down, or that he couldn't grow in his humanity. You're restricting him to a very narrow, utterly distrusting man who's only interested in self-preservation and who'd never break with these character rules 'you&...
I can refute you point for point on anything you have to say.
You're taking simple-minded one-liners and acting as if they're representative of how everyone who disagrees with you feels and behaves. That's disingenuous and it's transparent, and it's a dumb way to argue. But, when you're angry and you've got nothing, just create a straw man.
We can see what you're doing; your dishonesty is in full view.
@Iam
Try to counter? Are you challenging me to fight someone else instead of making your own point? That's so ballsy.
Joel has put his trust in plenty of people; Henry, Bill, all of Jackson Community to name a few. That's your argument? That's your big 'a-ha!' gotcha play; that it's out of character for Joel to trust anyone?
Not to mention that fact that Joel's trusting of Abby was a spur of the moment occurr...
If you can't empathize with Abby, at all, then you probably don't have the full context and haven't played the game. What you've said shows a complete lack of understanding, and if you have played the game, comprehension.
The people who were in Abby's group were biased and preferential toward Abby's cause of killing the man who murdered her father? How could they do such a thing? Why would they hold such a bias? There's also the side matter of Ab...
Got the platinum yesterday.
Now I'm just waiting on that Grounded and Grounded+ to arrive.
@Im
You've proved absolutely nothing except that you're vehement in your misguided opinion. Neil 'did' subvert the common trope of everyone living happily ever after, and that's all he "subverted." You already made the flat-falling Luke comparison. Didn't track then and it isn't now.
The first game and second game are one story. That's what a lot of people aren't acknowledging, and I believe they're only d...
Agreed.
Joel's arc is complete, and his purpose served and part played. Congrats to the writers and Troy for making him so compelling.
We'll see what ND does or doesn't do with the rest, but I have complete confidence in them. Masterfully done.
It evolves into something fantastic.
Right, because ND did such a good job of humanizing everyone; Abby most importantly. The fact that some of us were moved instead of being spiteful as we played through Abby's story after she killed Joel (even though I knew Joel wasn't perfect) is indeed a feat. Not at first; Abby's views at the beginning were narrow and intolerant. Everyone else was invalid but her and her group; like a Roman's view of a so-called barbarian.
Yeah, agreed on Abby and Ellie. T...
"This is a theme that is left out of most games, if not all but a few, because it's not a topic that you really want to think about while playing a game. You want to play the good guy....or the bad guy with the moral high ground in some cases. Your actions have to be justified, and generally speaking, while playing a game, you don't want to reminded of the consequences of immoral actions. Gaming is generally about escapist fun. But, at times, things like this are not a bad thing ...
Also, to add, this is not a story of heroes.
Joel is a hero to Ellie for obvious reasons, but he isn't a hero in any other sense - far from it. The idea that he deserved better; I'm not even sure what that means, completely. Did he "deserve" to high-five Ellie with a sunset at the end of Part II? Or, did he "deserve" a different death? Did he "deserve" more exploration in some way? That's for the writers to decide, but I think at th...
People excused Joel and his no more than 'hinted at' bad background behavior because of the more immediate foreground plight of losing his daughter. Then, after some reluctance, he grew fond of and basically adopted Ellie and nurtured her with love and lesson like a good and loving father. So, with little imagery detailing Joel's past sins, and lots of it focusing on his current, in-game fatherly actions, the empathy became utter endearment by the end. But, Joel's tenderness w...
I didn't derail anything; I merely pointed out that your criticism was opinion, and I did so because it wasn't supported. I'm not actually hearing you speak, because if I were, your tone would tell me enough.
You're just being passive-aggressive at this point adding in that I've now been derailing discussions. Not sure how you've come up with derailment; all things considered. I did nothing to undermine the discussion, but I did ask you to back up yo...
No, Ven, in fact (no pun intended) I kinda loathe the state of conversation these days; that we all have to make clear we're not stating our opinions as if they're fact. Having to go out of our way to say "Look, now, this is only my opinion" and so on sucks, but it's where we are and I get it.
If you make no effort to back up your opinions with reasoning, then people are going to assume you're speaking as if you're stating a fact, because that&...
Your sentiments mirror mine to a T.
Well said.
Nothing is above criticism, but your verdict of "flawed" is not above being opinion.
Those controls were a nightmare for me.
Hopefully they're updated to something akin to the last two games.
You're the one spewing nonsense about nihilism, and taking it further by saying that "nihilistic misery" utterly dominate the narrative when that is patently false.
This game is violent and dark, sure, and it's also very much about love. Just take a look at the relationships in this game, and the choices made and actions taken by these characters.
Depends on the game.
Some games I feel overstay their welcome and some games I feel are too short.
Shorter, more refined? Sure, a smaller game can be more refined, but if it's short for the sake of being short or to appease a shortness mandate, then absolutely no.
Let's just let devs make their games.