I'm pretty sure if you were one of the other groups on that show, you would not say "no biggie" to her "trolling" the show to sabotage it and make it never come to light. That was a huge oppurtunity for them, and Quinn didn't troll, she actively sabotaged it, did so deliberately and with sole intent, and then used it to springboard her own career.

Those other groups....name a single one of them or the games they made.

Then of course, there's the half million dollars spent to produce the show. The complete destruction of the producers career because of her actions. The chance that it will make it much harder for shows like this to happen again....unless you think Disney or others are going to be keen on something like this going forward?

It may have been stupid, but it was a positive thing for getting more people interested in game design. Whatever the contract stipulations were, there was benefit to it as a whole.

Her sabotaging the show, was for her own gain...not the betterment of the community.

For all the whining Quinn and the SJW lackies make about wanting to have more equality and diversity in gaming, Quinn could have used the oppurtunity to actually become a positive role model to show girls that such things were actually possible if one had the motivation....and in quinns case, even if they didn't have the talent.

But nope, that wasn't possible. Instead, she sabotaged it, and since then, despite the efforts of STEM or similar groups working hard to get what's needed by planting the seeds early that such fields would be appealing to women, you have this active and very vocal group who go out of their way to say how hostile the industry is to women, and how gamers don't like women, and how if they get into game design, they won't be able to achieve much without working exponentially harder than their male counterparts. Quinn is one of the foremost proponents of just how much of a sh*thole the industry is towards women, and is one person who actively tries to discourage others from ever participating, and in this case, tries to sabotage the opportunities of others because it is not her thing, and worse, she finds it amusing because she's a raging sociopath.

Nothing they do promotes women getting into the game industry, nor promotes them becoming gamers in general. Everything they do is to promote themselves. Even their agenda is secondary, if not completely meaningless to them building their own reputation.

So that's the big deal.

It's not about the quality of the show, it's about her part in making sure it never happened. That isn't on her to decide it's right to exist, anymore than it is on you to decide if the show was worthy of production. Your way of thinking could be extended to everything creative, because without doubt, every creative thing out there will have detractors.

Lets face the facts here. Games nowadays are being attacked by people that follow or outright worship Quinn or those like her. Would it be a big deal if they actively sabotaged any game production just because they feel it isn't worth having around or so they could promote themselves? They are doing this now. They have achieved some success. See the big deal now?

Second-hand confirmation is not really credible confirmation, which is why it's called second-hand confirmation. Nor is he confirming that implication, only that the chat logs exist. He didn't say it was 100% accurate or anything of the like, either.

Journalism seems lost on so many people today, but the article makes declarative statements without actual proof other than anecdotal correlation.

Before you act like the judge, jury, and executioner on all things revealed on the Internet by Internet detectives with their own agenda, perhaps you should take a step back that being a rumor doesn't mean false. It means merely that the information acquired is not enough to set a definitive claim as brought forth in the article. Same as an image is not definitive proof of a new console until it officially announced or a person half way around the world who supposedly said something isn't definitive proof until it actually comes to light.

As to this article, it looks pretty damning and she appears to be as immature as always and had little respect for the production elements of the show (or the need to recognize the sponsorship needs and requirements for such a function). It only adds to my dislike of her. But, it is not definitive proof, no matter how much people may like for it to be as seen as such.

***What becomes truth here then? Until Zoe admits it herself...yeah like that's going to happen. I knew this would happen on here...typical.***

I'm not sure. But, this isn't proof, only evidence.

I have to side with Christopher on this. While the chat logs themselves are pretty damning, it needs to be verified in a way that is irrefutable in order to be used as a means to continue on the GG debate, and her place within it. Otherwise, we get the same roundabout misogynist claims/actions that we had before, and the whole topic can be dismissed as gamers simply hating on her because she's a women.

At first I thought they were being a bit reactionary, and trying to temper the meaning of it all, but what Christopher says makes sense overall.

Going forward, there are likely going to be plenty of people who will independently verify, or do their best to correlate what she said to actual events which have been recorded, in order to make the sure the veracity of it holds up. When that happens, it means the debate becomes open discussion from the point of actual facts, and not just knee jerk reactions.

There's plenty of time to be upset, and likely this won't go away, and even liklier this will flair up GG once again....along with the SJW stuff to go with it. In the mean time, we can assume it's true, and take the time to analyze it more deeply to form better arguments for when it's appropriate.

Stuff like this won't go unnoticed, or even swept under the rug if people do their due diligence and avoid the knee jerk reactions, and ultimately, maintain civility to the point where they aren't antagonizing a group of people who have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Some will try of course, but their position has become compromised in the debate should this information be verified.

Given the current confirmations, it's highly likely the logs are real. Seems like a lot of work to try and discredit someone, and I doubt the one guy would just say they were real without really looking at them. Might take some time, because the press in general isn't going to pursue it, but I'm sure other people who have been more active in GG will, and hopefully, we'll get updates around here on the status of it.

In the mean time, I do hope the companies and people on the receiving end of her sabotage use this information, assuming it's true, and completely destroy her in the press, the courts, and her reputation so she can never be something the gaming community has to worry about again. No reason to threaten her....just hold her accountable for her own actions, which is what GG is supposed to be trying to do for all those who are practicing unethical behavior.

I assume you know who Zoe Quinn is, and how she ended up being the catalyst for what eventually led to the uncovering of the GameJourosPros list that sparked GamerGate.

Quinn seemly created something called the "Crash Override Network" (with the - now fitting - acronym of CON). This was supposed to be a way to curb Twitter harassment. In truth, it was never meant for that. Think of a mobster movie when a fancy restaurant is used as a front while people talk about the "family business" in the back rooms. Someone (no one knows who did) released Skype chat logs that dated from December 2014 to Jan. 2015. These logs incriminate both Quinn and a number of other people (Randi Harper, Kathrine Cross, Chris Kwune, David Gallant, etc.) in talking about other people quite vitriolically. Their targets included MundaneMatt, TotalBiscuit, Liana Kertzner (who gave a wonderful counter that this was more "mean girling" then feminism, especially with how Cross talked about her on there), JennofHardwire, BroTeam, etc. They were on the warpath to start fights with people they deemed to be their enemies. The problem is that many of those people they deemed to be so either tried to be fair to them and reach out to them (TB even said that he did try to get Quinn's side of things about the Grayson thing, and she went into attack mode about it). Either that or they were people that didn't even go hardball about anything, or even said one mean word about any of them. Not to mention that they had an unhealthy obsession with going after GG, talking about it on Christmas/New Years Eve/Day. They were THAT dedicated to starting something.

One particular log dictates about how Quinn maliciously tried to sabotage Polaris' failed TV-style indie game reality show, Game Jam, in 2014. Her reasons are pretty dumb (I can see her being upset about having to do some corporate shilling, but to try to screw around with the entire thing just because of that?). This might be the biggest problem out of anything, because of how much it cost Maker to put that Game Jam on ($400K), and could be worthy of a lawsuit, though not sure if Polaris is knowledgeable about this, or if they would be willing to file one.

This all goes into the notion that Quinn is one slimy, horrible person. She's been known to have troll baited the Wizardchan forums, doxxed a few people, the obvious nepotism that she continues to deny ever happened to begin with, and now we can add using social sensitivities of various minorities to cover up her deeds, using CON (which, by the way, never DID help in curbing actual Twitter harassment, as has now been documented) as a front. The evidence is pretty solid, all but confirmed, and is damning.

In other words, these people are pretty screwed right now, and they need to stop trying to cover their tracks and just atone...for once in their lives!

I wouldn't worry about that. Their time will come. The reason people aren't calling them out now is because most people don't even know who they are, and they never in any way received the kind of attention at the start of GG(or rather before) that Quinn did, who actively went onto social media to boost her own reputation, and was herself the catalyst which went on to reveal the actual reason the term GG got coined, and became an official movement instead of a bunch of pissed off forum goers.

The gender of the people involved is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand, just like misogyny is irrelevant to GG as a whole. You are attempting to derail the entire issue by trying to make it into something it isn't....which is exactly why when you search GG on Google or look on Wikipedia, you see it's a hate movement against women, instead of it's intended purpose of ethical behavior in the gaming press.

Truth be told, even this article didn't implicate them to the degree they may be culpable for. It wasn't because they're men, or that people liked their games, it's because it's about quinn, who is the biggest instigator of what went down based on the chat logs. Eventually, people will scrutinize it more, and those two will have their reputation put into the spotlight....regardless of if people liked their games or not.

But hey, misdirecting the topic at hand is fun right?

You make it sound like the only reason this is a story is because some internet numpties have spent the last two years digging and digging, trying to find almost anything to make her look bad, failed, and so tried to spin something inconsequential into the crime of the decade...

But, it's not about her, it's about ethics in video game journalism...

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