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sweetSWAGGER

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CRank: 5Score: 13700

I Am Disappoint: Destiny Damage Control

I know, I know, another whiny blog about what's wrong with Destiny. Well, if it makes you feel any better, this has less to do with my actual Destiny experience and more to do with the game's reception. Please watch Machinima's Inside Gaming video on Destiny's critical reception, as this edition in disappoint will be in-part a response to a certain point brought up in that video:

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

Um...
I was totally with you, Mr. Kovic when you made that funny sarcastic quip about not being able to enjoy Destiny because others don't, and you shouldn't blindly follow the opinions of others... but then you go on say that people need to keep these negative opinions to themselves. I'm confused, are you saying that because they're mostly regurgitated opinions... or because the negativity is actually rendering you incapable of enjoying the game?

There are sheep in this community, to that we can both agree. However, I don't think that's something we can expect to change anytime soon within our subculture, that's something that needs to change in society, mostly American education. But right now, if the sheep are going to follow blindly without thinking, we need to take it upon ourselves to lead them down the right path, all the while encouraging them to think for themselves and value their own opinion of a game without needing to "validate" it by conforming to another's opinion. At the same time, you need to be willing to have your opinion challenged, because if you can't defend it without getting mad, then that just screams fanboy/sheep behavior.

"If you don't like the game just sell it already and shut up. I'm having a BLAST!"

That is a useless argument that I've seen all over the place with this game. It doesn't add anything to the discussion but a selfish attempt at silencing criticism. You may not care about certain aspects of the game, but others clearly do, and they'd like to see those elements improve. If your only counter-argument to any criticism against the game is "shut up and keep it to yourself", you've immediately lost all credibility with me. Why are you even talking about this to begin with? Go back to your bubble community full of yes-men and stop trying to pee in the pool.

Too often on the Internet people will blindly dismiss criticism because it's targeted at something they like, often by blabbering terrible logic as a result. I have witnessed some of the most baffling arguments ever made in defense of Destiny. One commenter even going so far as saying that not all games need a deep, compelling story to be a masterpiece, comparing the game to the likes of Mario Brothers. Though that point is sound on its own, it's still a terrible one. There's a difference between what a game achieves, and what it intends to achieve. Mario doesn't try to have a deep emotional story, it intends to have solid, fun gameplay: it's story is only ever context for whatever new gameplay it comes up with. Because of that, it get's praise. Here, Destiny clearly intended to create solid, fun gameplay with an engaging story set against the backdrop of a lush science fantasy universe. I don't know what happened, but half of that mission statement fell flat on its face. The game will be criticized and rightfully so.

To blindly defend these shortcomings is only hurting the game's potential. Bungie needs to hear our criticism so they can improve in an area they clearly want to succeed in. Furthermore, the sheeple need to have their opinions challenged so that they'll take one step closer to critical thinking and common sense. Of course, most will just change stance and board the hate-wagon because of social pressure, but a few will actually grow a few brain cells as a result, realizing that GASP, they can still enjoy the bloody game anyway. Fanboyism loses a few of its soldiers with each polarizing topic in this community. However, that only works if the rational, cooler-heads do their part in the discussion.

Then, of course, there's also the argument that the game was never really about half of the things we got hyped over. The problem there? It's still Activision/Bungie's fault. It's not my responsibility to look beyond whatever marketing you throw at me and assume the game is actually about something else. Any failure to properly communicate a game's intentions is just that, a failure. Also, to allow hype to build for something you know isn't the focal point of your game is irresponsible, it screams profit margins over quality and consumer satisfaction. Oh, you have to capitalize on all the hype? Well then don't be surprised when your game inevitably fails to satisfy everyone and develops a stigma. Capitalizing on ridiculous hype may pay off, but it also hurts the reputation of an otherwise decent game, driving late-adopters away like it's the plague. You saw what gamers did to the Xbox One: kill this trend.

That's what Destiny is, a painfully decent game. A solid jump shooter that's extremely engaging at times, yes, but bogged down with questionable design decisions and a terribly bare-bones plot that leaves you apathetic to the universe it goes to extreme lengths to create. That is MY opinion of the game, and just because most people hold that same opinion may have less to do with the fact that it's regurgitated and more to do with the fact that those are actually faults in the game's design.

TL:DR version:
You can enjoy something while simultaneously being open to/acknowledging its problems at the same time for the sake of eventual improvement and an overall better product.

+2 brain cells

Whew! Now that that's out of the way, I'd say it's time for something a little less critical and a little more constructive! I'm going to add an additional, more creative blog that details and dicusses possible ideas that I believe would've made the game better, specifically in the story department, as that's the only area that failed to reel me in. Stick around for that I suppose!

thorstein4128d ago

So, if I'm reading you right, then we can come to the conclusion that, as long as someone has an opinion, and can justify that opinion, then their claim can be equal to yours. Even negative reviews?

I, of course, don't agree with your assessment of Destiny because I am loving the game. And it isn't just one thing: I love raiding with my clan, doing strikes or crucible with my clan.

I love searching out bounties and doing public events. I also love how the game allows you to tag someone and join them in a strike or a mission, even if that person isn't on your friend's list. The world is beautiful and now that I am level 28, I am really enjoying what I do. But I love this type of game: exploration, role playing elements, and grinding/ farming.

That makes our opinions equal and therefore worthy of respect.

But then there are the numbers. (even though I don't like the site, I am using it for numbers only) according to metacritic, Destiny has had 59 Critically Positive Reviews, 33 Mixed, and 1 Negative for PS4. That's not too bad.

Amongst the users, we get 874 positives, 235 mixed and 462 negatives. That is 463 negative reviews to 933 positive reviews.

Again, this is PS4 only. That, based on your argument, is tremendously leaning toward the idea that Destiny is actually a positively accepted and reviewed game.

But there is one thing missing from all this metadata. What do the actual people who play the game on the PS4 say about it. What do they do when given the option to give this game a thumbs up?

Well, over 240,000 players liked this game. We now know that 240,933 people give Destiny the thumbs up to 464 (your opinion included) thumbs down.

That isn't even close. That isn't even in the same ballpark. That is a small sized city full of people vs a college dorm full of people.

And this isn't stacking the deck fallacy. I easily accepted any negative reviews with or without justification. I allow the negative side to stand right there with the positives.

So, while the "press" has been overly negative, the players, the people who actually play the game and take the time to enjoy it, are overwhelmingly loving it.

sweetSWAGGER4128d ago (Edited 4128d ago )

I don't know why I didn't get a notification for you comment, that was weird. Oh well.

Anyway, I noticed in your list of reasons regarding Destiny, you barely come close to disagreeing with me. My problems lie in the game's story, and how terrible of a job it does in pulling you in and engaging you. Also, the fact that the game's lore is separate from the game is one of many questionable decisions that further hurt the story. But, Mr. Thorsetin, you disagree with that because:

"[you] love raiding with [your] clan, doing strikes or crucible with [your] clan. [you] love searching out bounties and doing public events. [you] also love how the game allows you to tag someone and join them in a strike or a mission, even if that person isn't on your friend's list."

Okay, so online cooperative/social features. That's great, now what does that have to do with the miserable failure that is Destiny's story? The closest you come to disagreeing is by saying "The world is beautiful", but that has little to do with immersion and more to do with pretty graphics. Care to elaborate?

Lastly, what's with the majority/minorty report you've got going on, Thorstein? I'm sorry if what you're taking away from this blog is "if the majority doesn't like it, it must be a bad game". That is not my argument. No, my point is "if the majority agree that particular parts of a game fails, it may have less to do with opinion and more to do with actual design failure (i.e. the story is bad because it's bare-bones and repetitive, and the decision to exclude the card database from the game was a terrible one that only hurt an already bad story).

Out of all those positive reviews you've pointed out, how many state that, in their opinion of course, the story/universe of Destiny is actually GOOD or does a GOOD job of immersing you? If you actually go through each of those reviews, you'd see that the majority opinion amounts to "story is poorly handled or just bad". You can point out all the positive reviews till the sun sets, but we're not talking about something as black and white as "more people gave the game a green thumb, therefore it is a good game".

Perhaps I shouldn't have used the term "sheeple"...hm, bad idea.

We're talking about specific things that the game doesn't do well, and how you can't really silence those specific criticisms just because they don't pertain to your interests in the game. Funny enough, that's sorta what's happening right here in this little comments section: you disagree that the game is, as I put it "painfully decent"... but based on things that have little to nothing to do with my problems with the game.

Different interests, dear fellow, that's what our disagreement is based on.

thorstein4127d ago

True. But, for me, I listed the reasons that this game is fun.

And in the end, that is what gaming should be. I admit, I love Dragon Quest games. I love grinding and leveling up my character. To me, that is fun.

sweetSWAGGER4127d ago

Thorstein, you're still not getting it: not once did I ever say anything about the game failing due to the gameplay or online offerings. In fact, I either ignored or only ever praised the gameplay side of the experience in the above blog.

You're not disagreeing with me. My argument isn't that the game isn't fun because of the gameplay or online stuff. My argument isn't that the game is bad because everyone else thinks so. Hell, my argument isn't even that the game is bad period, it's that the game falls flat in making me care specifically about the story and lore side of the experience. You know, all that lore that Bungie put a LOT of work into.

And additionally, I'm pointing out why it's okay to acknowledge this weakness in the game and still be able love it, as criticizing the terrible story means it can only get better.

You clearly don't care very much for the story, because you've yet to defend it. Instead, you opt to defend something I'm not even criticizing. If you don't want to talk about the story, Thorstein, then just give it a rest because otherwise there's nothing to argue about, chum.

Your defense is at best redundant and at worst irrelevant to this discussion.

thorstein4127d ago

So, in essence, you're now stating that if I don't agree with you it makes my argument redundant and irrelevant.

The story is the story. I have never argued with anyone that claims they don't like the story. I have only ever argued with people who claim that the story is unintelligible.

Those are two different things. You claim the plot is barebones. In fact that is about all you claim about the story.

I don't. And perhaps I may have an advantage because I love Japanese games and have played them for so long.

Let me digress, Ico, for me was an amazing game because it allowed me to create my own narrative. No Man's Sky looks to do this as well. For some people this doesn't work. I get that. (I disagree with it, but I get that.)

Destiny is the same. There is a plot: You are brought back to life by the speaker's ghost, you find a ship and take off to the tower. In the very beginning, your ghost tells you that you will see a lot that you won't understand.

The story goes on and you know the rest if you have finished it, but it is your imagination that needs to fill in the narrative, just like in Ico and in No Man's Sky. For me, the story involves very much my Titan Human Male that has taken up the call to fight back the darkness. The battles, both scripted (narrative) and unscripted (patrols, strikes, bounties) are part of that story. The grimoire is a major part of that story, and yes, I am one of those people who uses the companion app as I play. I log in and read the grimoire cards as soon as I safely can to see what part of the story it is referring to.

Could that have been done better? Maybe. Not for me. I don't like having my hand held all the way through a story. It's fine early on, but after that, it had its own flow that I could follow at my leisure.

And it is true. I have always been critical of people who claim that a game was "overhyped." It can not be overhyped unless the end user overhyped it for themselves. I almost did this to myself with Uncharted 2. Naughty Dog overcame my overhyping of the game because they are amazing. But, you can't blame a company for advertising the game.

Which leads us to one of the worst claims about this game that no one can back up: "This game didn't deliver on what was promised?"

Claims must be proven with evidence. Please show me where Bungie claimed something about this game that isn't in the game. Show me quotes from the developers that claim Destiny was going to be something different from what was launched.

To further back up my stance, I submit the Beta. The Beta was exactly what we got. Based on the Beta alone, I knew I made a great decision.

I have been openly critical of people who make claims about the game (especially the early reviews) that couldn't be backed up (eg the game world was too small).

I freely admit that I should have spent more time explaining where I felt your assessment falls apart and that is majorly in the hype department.

I have no problem with you saying that you don't like the story because you said it is too bare bones. I can't help that you didn't experience the narrative as I did. I actually like it for this very reason.

Perhaps that is why I love Fallout, Shadow of the Colossus, Metroid and Dragon Quest games and Demon's Souls. I don't need every part of the story shoved down my throat. I want it to come to me at my own pace and when I need it to. In the end, Destiny's story let's us fight back the biggest threat while at the same time, freeing a Martian City for (hopefully) future Earthling habitation.

sweetSWAGGER4127d ago (Edited 4127d ago )

OH GOLLY!
a proper discussion of the one thing I really criticized about the game. Let's dig in, but quick!

First off, you say you only have a problem when people argue the story is unintelligible. mm-hmm. Alright then.

Secondly, yes, I do claim the plot is bare-bones. The reason I leave it at that is because this isn't the blog to delve into that. That, and in my defense, I wasn't about to go into detail over something you didn't seem interested in discussing to begin with.

Third, you compare Destiny to the likes of Ico and No Man's Sky, because "it allowed [you] to create [you're] own narrative."

I disagree. Destiny is not designed to be a player-driven story experience in the same vein as games like No Man's Sky. Destiny is a LINEAR and SCRIPTED MISSION-BASED game. Sure, you can go off the beaten path and make your own fun if you try hard enough, but the actual story requires little of the player other than "go here, do that, watch cut-scene, listen to Dinklebot and repeat.

Fourth. This:
"...it is your imagination that needs to fill in the narrative, just like in Ico and in No Man's Sky."

No, I disagree once again. No Man's Sky has you exploring randomly-generated planets as you work your way to the center of the galaxy. THAT is a player-centric plot because it basically tells the player to achieve an end goal, but does not dictate HOW they do it, thus allowing them to create their own adventure/narrative along the way: The player's experience IS THE STORY. Destiny is NOT the same.

Fifth, you state that "yes, [you are] one of those people who uses the companion app as [you] play. Could that have been done better? Maybe. Not for [you]. [you] don't like having [your] hand held all the way through a story."

Sorry, I detest the fact that the player has to LEAVE the game to understand the lore, instead of letting the lore speak for itself. If you consider anything else to be "hand-holding", then I don't know what to say... because the narrative structure of Destiny already does a fine job of hand-holding you through it. You LITERALLY have a floating robot telling you where to go and what to do at all times in the story. I don't understand what you mean, Sir.

Sixth: "I freely admit that I should have spent more time explaining where I felt your assessment falls apart and that is majorly in the hype department."

I haven't even scratched the surface, Sir. Feel free to come back in my second blog, I'll give you all the itty bitty nitty gritties.

And lastly, you say: "I can't help that you didn't experience the narrative as I did. I actually like it for this very reason. Perhaps that is why I love Fallout, Shadow of the Colossus, Metroid and Dragon Quest games and Demon's Souls."

Thorstein, you just put Destiny in the same sentence with FALLOUT in terms of a player-driven narrative structure... I'm just going to zip my mouth shut on that note until the second blog.

See you there, old chum! *ziiiiip*

thorstein4127d ago

Unfortunately, at the end you do the very thing you claim to despise.

"Your defense is at best redundant and at worst irrelevant to this discussion."

From your blog: "Too often on the Internet people will blindly dismiss criticism because it's targeted at something they like"

That last sentence is blindly dismissing what I claim and in your words mine is "a useless argument."

But you take a tone that expects others to respect your opinion. Yet, you refuse to respect any dissenting opinion whether it is backed up or not. I'm pointing this out to show you that it weakens your stance because of your tone is of dismissal.

sweetSWAGGER4127d ago

The reason I say your opinion is irrelevant is because you use it to disagree with me... even though you're not disagreeing with me. That's the problem. You're simply focusing on a different area of the game. You disagree with my assessment... by listing what I already sum up as "solid" and "extremely engaging". After everything you listed, you didn't factor in the story at all. Our opinions weren't really in conflict. e.g. disagreeing with someone who dislikes Call of Duty's story by pointing out how great the multiplayer and gameplay are. That's irrelevant.

Not only that, but you completely misunderstand my point about majority agreement, what with the whole "look at all the green thumbs, clearly the game is good". When whether the overall game was good was never my point. This is an assessment based off a very specific area of the game, and how people need to stop making excuses for it just because they enjoy another area. You appeared to be doing just that when you defended the game's story... by talking about something else and then pointing out how everyone simply approves of the game overall. Again, irrelevant.

Please, when did I blindly dismiss your claims? I distinctly remember (actually I just read it again a second ago :P) that I attempted to refute your arguments based on the fact that they either misunderstood MY arguments or didn't address them it at all.

Also:
"So, in essence, you're now stating that if I don't agree with you it makes my argument redundant and irrelevant."

I... I don't even.

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