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randomass171

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Nintendo Now Has The Right Idea About YouTube

To be perfectly honest with you, I'm not really expecting a warm reception to this blog. In fact I expect a lot of people to take offense with my opinions this time. They're not popular and they're not common. But I feel it's something that ought to be said. Nintendo's new stance on YouTube Let's Play revenue is the right one in my opinion. Initially, Nintendo opted to eradicate revenue people earned from videos altogether, which seemed harsh to me but nothing they were not legally allowed to do. Nintendo's stance on this has changed and they are now setting up a program with YouTube that splits the revenue between Nintendo, YouTube and the user (for example a Let's Player). This, to me, is the best way it should be done and I honestly hope more publishers follow suit.

There are three Let's Play "channels" that I actively follow: Achievement Hunter, James Rolfe with Mike Matei and Game Grumps. That's pretty much it. Are those the only popular sources for Let's Plays out there? Absolutely not. Users like PewDiePie and Chuggaconroy are undeniably popular with what they do and how well their fans believe they do it. I have no ill will toward anyone who is able to make money doing Let's Plays.

There are plenty of debates to be had about how much content actually belongs to the creator of a Let's Play. In my view, a Let's Player owns only the original material in the content: whatever graphics they may use during the video (such as Egoraptor's animations for Game Grumps) and of course the voice work they do. Beyond that the focus of the video is on the video game itself which is absolutely not their content. Yes, they are playing it and yes, they are turning it into their own production, but at the end of the day it's no different than Mystery Science Theater 3000 or Rifftrax (the latter of which could not even be sold in video form), particularly when the Let's Player opts to LP the entire game.

Why am I taking this stance? Well while I appreciate the Let's Players I follow, these content creators are more so selling their personalities than the games they are playing. I personally am far more interested in playing games than watching other people play them. There are exceptions, such as games like Sonic '06 which was LPed by both Game Grumps and James and Mike. But the thing is even if these particular sources were forced to share their LP revenue they would be fine as Let's Plays are not their primary source of income.

It's not as easy for other Let's Players who have actually made Let's Playing their full time job and with those people I sympathize as well. But unfortunately I just do not think it's fair to make your entire life's work based around making money with someone else's content and not giving any of the cut to the creator of the game, also known as: the primary reason that Let's Play even exists.

There are plenty of instances where Let's Playing have generated increased popularity for some games, such as Slender and A Hat in Time Alpha. Both of these games were fairly underground and have since gained wide acclaim because of people uploading video recordings of their playthrough of the game. So it should never be said that I do not see an upside to Let's Playing.

But if people are really so upset about the makers of the video games taking a cut, doesn't that speak more volumes about the Let's Players than anything else? If Let's Players and their fans are that concerned about the money, then it clearly shows that these are bigger fans of the Let's Plays and not of the games themselves. I disagree with that perspective, I believe more strongly in what rightfully belongs to the video game publishers. They deserve a cut of a recording of their games if it is making money.

I also question just how much effort it takes to create Let's Plays as well. If we consider the video game footage and the recorded audio of the Let's Players voice alone, the necessary effort it would take to create the most basic interpretation of a Let's Play can be achieved with minimal editing in Windows Movie Maker. Of course because of more advanced tools, Let's Players tend to have professional graphics and title cards to make the experience feel more unique. But keep in mind, people were recording and uploading gameplay videos long before the Let's Play scene became so popular. The joke video "Mario Frustration" has amassed almost 30 million views on YouTube and was uploaded about seven years ago. As far as I know, the maker of that video was never a YouTube partner and was not making money off of that video.

By now I'm sure you have noticed that I have not mentioned Nintendo very much. The truth is Nintendo is the first publisher to take this approach on YouTube revenue and it caused a lot of controversy, generating arguably MORE anger from Let's Play fans than when they initially took away all revenue. I think this is the best way for everyone at the end of the day and I am speaking in general terms because I believe that other publishers should do exactly the same thing. If Let's Players want to make money off of this content, that's perfectly fine, but a cut of it should belong to the publishers/developers in my honest opinion.

Just to conclude, again I have no ill will toward the Let's Players out there, but ultimately I want to side with the publishers and what they are entitled to. I don't think Let's Players should be cut off since they are indeed making these videos and adding something to the video game scene. But at the same time, I also feel that a part of the money being made off of those Let's Plays belongs to the video games that are being played in those videos. While there are indeed some negative effects for the Let's Players, that's just how the copyright laws work: that content belongs to the people who made them and if someone else is making money using that content then a part of that cut belongs to the content creator. That is just my view.

Anyway, soap box hat off and discussion hat on: What are your thoughts on this issue?

DragonKnight4249d ago (Edited 4249d ago )

Allow me to be the first to disagree with you.

For starters, people aren't addressing, or are forgetting, about a crucial factor. Most, if not all, Let's Players are actually part of a network. This means that their profits are already split 3 ways between themselves, their network, and Google. Adding Nintendo in means a 4 way split and that's ridiculous.

Second, Nintendo is effectively taxing people for the ability to play a game they already paid for and showing others. The more popular LP'ers are going to be hit hard by this and so will likely simply boycott playing Nintendo games, but for smaller LP'ers Nintendo will be taking cents away, not dollars. It won't ever add up to much for Nintendo being a multi-billion dollar company, but it DOES add up for the smaller users.

Third, being for this is the same as being for Nintendo being able to tax you when someone at your house is watching you play the game. They are technically the same, the only difference is that on Youtube, people aren't at your house.

Fourth, copyright laws are outdated and vague. Nintendo doesn't lose money from LPs nor do they lose the right to make money off of their IP so there is no reason for them to do this other than pure greed. Greed that outmatches EA, Activision, Capcom, and Microsoft combined.

And finally, Nintendo is choosing to isolate themselves with this. The rest of the industry, yes almost ALL of the rest of the industry, is for Let's Plays. They aren't taxing it, they aren't trying to stop it, many have actively promoted that Let's Plays are good for the industry. Hell, Sony and Microsoft even designed their consoles to include a form of Let's Play as a feature, which goes to show you that they both understand the potential behind Let's Plays.

Let's Plays are free advertising and have helped games like Minecraft all the way up to Demon's Souls do far better than anyone expected they would. Let's Plays are also highly beneficial to consumers as they are kind of like reviews done in real time, with no corporate baggage attached to the review, making for a more trustworthy review.

And I would argue that the focus is NOT on the game in an LP. I would argue that the LP'er is what's most important because if people just wanted to see gameplay then an LP isn't necessary. People watch LPs because they are entertaining. For example, I watch DashieXP's Let's Plays and he's frickin' hilarious. If I were to take Dashie out of the video entirely and just see the gameplay, I wouldn't care and probably wouldn't watch it.

The money made from LPs is due to the talent behind them. The product is just a formality. Once an LP'er gains a fanbase, that fanbase continues to come and see them regardless of the game they are playing. Only unsubbed users come because they are drawn by the game, but they don't stay because games are being played.

So I have to disagree with you and Nintendo on this. The Nintendo Tax is completely wrong, completely in bad taste, and just continues to show how much of a dinosaur Nintendo really is and that they don't want to change at all.

JD_Shadow4248d ago

This could, though, be a good thing if YouTube will allow for the monetization to be split between the user and other companies that try to claim the videos that have things like, say, a few seconds of licensed music from a game.

If anyone remembers what Angry Joe went through, you'd know just why it can become a major problem. A five second clip of a song that someone like WMG has copyrighted, and they can monetize the ENTIRE VIDEO that could be 30 minutes long, and which the rest of the video has absolutely nothing more to do with them. I'm not talking about the ones that YouTube incorrectly identifies with their broken automated system (or those that if you dispute it, they will remove the claim), but the types of douchebags that will reinstate claims on the final day of their 30 day window they have to respond to a dispute. THOSE are the ones that need to be addressed.

Though, as you said, the "Nintendo Tax" could become a matter of the pie being cut up into too many pieces, it could be a good sign for YouTube being able to use it for other cases that this can be an issue (Angry Joe has suggested they do something like this).

DragonKnight4248d ago

I have to disagree that any of this could be good. Taking the money earned because you are an entertaining LP'er and splitting it between who knows how many others is just wrong. These companies are the height of greed, and Sony is one of the worst of them when it comes to music. I don't know who runs the music division of Sony, but they need to be fired along with their lawyers.

Doing your utmost to collect what can amount to less than a penny in adsense from people who are actually helping you to get your product some recognition, whether it be the game being reviewed or a music clip used in said review, is just tasteless and completely lacking in class.

JD_Shadow4248d ago

It is better than what they have been attempting to do now, which is profit for the entire video that, in my case at least, can be 30-40 minutes long (I'm not exaggerating that, either: my Watch Dogs LP so far has videos that have broke the 40 minute mark, and one that's gone to 50 or so minutes). Because a licensed song happens to be playing in the background for a few seconds because I am trying to turn off the audio, they profit for the entirety of the 30-50 minutes that I commentate and play the game?

At least with this way, I would still be compensated in some way for the transformative work that I've done in playing the game, putting my commentary (which isn't the best in the world, but it's still something I worked to be able to add), editing the video (which can take an hour or so, depending on what you have to do to fix things like volume or stuff you want to edit out or whatnot), encoding the video, and then uploading it to YouTube. It seems like a fair compensation if they really feel like they have to have some claim to it. I know that, again, it's a pie being cut too many ways than we feel it's fair, but it's better than what is there right now, which is broken to say the very least.

randomass1714248d ago (Edited 4248d ago )

"Second, Nintendo is effectively taxing people for the ability to play a game they already paid for and showing others."

I feel that that is inaccurate. Nintendo isn't charging you for posting videos on YouTube. For example, I haven't been charged anything and I posted three Mario Kart videos on my own channel already (my friend was kind enough to let me play and upload videos using his Wii U). What they are doing is taking a cut of those profiteering off of such videos which I still feel is justified. The LP would not exist without the game content. Comparing it to Nintendo charging you for showing a friend is just far too extreme when they don't even charge normal users for the simple act of uploading videos.

I look at it the same way I look at licensed music in film: the film may be where all of the talent is, but the people who made that film still had to pay rights to use the music in it (provided they didn't make the music themselves).

I honestly do not see it as a tax. To me it's more like a royalty fee. Heck, as you said YouTube is pretty bad when it comes to music, particularly with Sony. The way it should work is ad revenue should automatically go to the content creator automatically. That's often how it works with Rooster Teeth videos and certain musical artists. With Let's Plays, I guess it's more about where your passion lies: with the LP personality or with the video game and for me at least it tends to be the latter.

DragonKnight4248d ago

"I feel that that is inaccurate. Nintendo isn't charging you for posting videos on YouTube."

Yes they are. That's the whole idea. You put your video on Youtube, they tax you for using their IP when you make money.

"For example, I haven't been charged anything and I posted three Mario Kart videos on my own channel already (my friend was kind enough to let me play and upload videos using his Wii U)."

I don't think the tax has been implemented yet, or you're not monetizing your videos, but expect a copyright strike in place of the tax.

"The LP would not exist without the game content."

That's inaccurate. You're making the assumption that LP'ers are making money off of a product that isn't there's and they aren't. They're making money off of how the present their experience with a product. It's all about the person, the product is just a framing device. If anyone wanted to just see gameplay, LPs aren't at all necessary. People don't watch LPs just to see a game.

"Comparing it to Nintendo charging you for showing a friend is just far too extreme when they don't even charge normal users for the simple act of uploading videos."

How can they charge anyone if there's no money being made? Their next step is content ID or copyright flags. They don't want you using their IP in any way without paying them or gaining their explicit permission, which they've proven they have no interest in giving.

I say that LP'ers should be charging Nintendo for trying to make money off of their talent. After all, these people are providing free advertising to Nintendo and they shouldn't be if Nintendo is simply going to try and tax them for it. Nintendo makes absolutely no money off of traditional advertisements, why should they be making money off of free advertisements? It's greed pure and simple.

If everything were to go as you are suggesting it goes, then review, parody, educational uses of any copyrighted material should immediately cease unless they pay all parties their due. At the same time, everyone should be paying car dealerships a "royalty fee" when they sell their car to someone else because Ford made that care and deserve to be compensated eternally.

Bottom Line: Let's Play videos are free advertising trusted by the average user. They involve the personality, time, and editing work of the LP'er. Any company that tries to grab dat money with their grubby hands because they're so greedy they need to make literally every last possible cent they can are damaging themselves and the industry because they are telling everyone "you'd better not share your experiences with our game with anyone, not unless you pay us first." That's f***ing pathetic, I don't care who you are or what you do, that is the lowest of the low.

I mean Microsoft, the company that invented triple dipping in gaming, even THEY aren't trying to rob people like this. They designed the Xbox One to allow for this. There's really no justification, but the only explanation is greed. That's all.

Nintendo won't have to worry though, they'll lose out on a lot of money when LP'ers boycott their games, they'll lose out on a lot of free advertising, and they'll once again prove that they have no idea what they're doing thanks to their antiquated business ideas.

Chris5584247d ago

lol at this blog going this far you guys would eat shit if nintendo would say to you the big ninty can do no wrong

ShinMaster4247d ago (Edited 4247d ago )

When someone makes video reviews or parodies, video guides, etc (big companies like IGN do the same) they do not owe anything to Nintendo or anyone else.
That is content created by the Youtuber.

The question is, how do you draw the line between video walkthrough or guide and an LP.

garrettbobbyferguson4248d ago (Edited 4248d ago )

So it's okay to take a movie, put some commentary over it and make money off of it, because you bought the DVD?

Everything you say about Let's Players is wrong. They are making money off of another person's product. They are simply recording them playing, putting some useless commentary over it (game Grumps, Rooster Teeth [although I like them] ,Pewdiepie etc). There are FEW let's players that justifiably can argue their content is fully their own.

And don't say advertising, if these companies wanted advertising, they'd have asked for it and paid for it. Probably even hired professionals that can advertise towards hundreds of millions rather than a couple hundred thousand to a million people. This isn't advertising for many of these companies. So that point is moot.

DragonKnight4248d ago

Too bad you're so wrong it's not even funny.

No one goes to Pewdiepie for the games. They go for his experience with games. No one watches LPs because of the games themselves after a certain point. There is a reason Let's Plays are so popular and still exist, and it isn't because of the games it's because of the people behind them.

Advertising, there I said. It's a fact and you know it, you just don't want to admit it.

I can name 2 games that became much more successful because of Let's Plays and the advertising they gave. Minecraft and Demon's Souls. Without Let's Plays, they definitely wouldn't have been nearly as successful as they were.

Professional advertisements are avoided and ignored, in fact they are hated. No one has ever liked commercials and most do not buy anything based on commercials. Most people will rely on personal testing, or word of mouth, which is what Let's Plays are about.

The fact that the entire industry except Nintendo and Sega don't have any issues with Let's Plays and even encourage it should tell you that everything you said is wrong and they all see it.

JD_Shadow4248d ago

The whole game vs. movie argument has been done to death, and yet, people seem to want to go right back to it.

You can't compare games versus movies because games are not static like movies are. If you do a commentary on a movie like you would a game, then what would change in the actual movie from one person to another? Absolutely nothing, because the movie has a static sequence of events. Even when you have a different style of commentary (which would become a argument of fair use: remember Nostalgia Critic exists), the movie will not change from performance to performance because it follows a set script.

With games, there is a reason why the term "transformative work" exists. Not everyone is going to play the game the exact same way, and not everyone is going to progress in the same style. You will have deviations, and you will have people who chose to beat a boss in a different manner than you, or even the programmers, thought that they could beat one. What if someone took a detour in the game to do a side quest, but someone else decided to press on with the main story? Again, because it's not static, and not everyone plays that game the exact same way, you cannot apply the exact same set of rules that you would do with movies to games because games are an entirely different medium of entertainment that federal law has yet to catch up to yet.

And to your point of what these LPers are doing, look, for example, of what my work would be like for my Watch Dogs LP. In addition to what I said above about what I do for my videos, I spent nearly a thousand dollars SO FAR in getting my computer sort of up to date (my CPU, for instance, set my back 500 dollars, and the mobo was 200, 80 bucks for a single DDR3 8GB Ripjaws X memory stick, in which the mobo can support 64GB, a new PSU that cost 70 bucks, and this is before I got what I needed to record like my condenser mic and the boom stand for it). It's paid off in the production so far, but I plan on getting more to be able to further my quality. People work very hard to put out quality content (I know people like Jessie Cox, TotalBiscuit, Dodger, Angry Joe, and the people at N4GTV.com work hard at it). To some, this IS their job; to cover games, and they put a LOT of money and time to do it.

Finally, that point about advertising is NOT moot because devs HAD came out when YouTube was doing that crack down BS and said that they valued what these guys did. Ubisoft and Capcom being the first, then Bethesda. EA hasn't objected (they just don't do blanket approvals). Blizzard has also been good about it (as long as you don't hide anything behind a paywall, that meaning you can't make people pay to see your videos), Eidos (a part of Square Enix), as well as the people behind Hotline Miami (forget the dev studio that did that one). When that happened, many devs were awestruck, saying that they didn't even know anything was going on and that they didn't ask for that sort of rule to be in effect. They value what LPers do because they are showing off the actual game, and they are giving their honest opinion about it (go watch the podcast Adam Sessler did when that first went down ( https://www.youtube.com/wat... ). Microsoft obviously knows the value of that kind of advertising because they had tried to contract them, so to speak, with the XB1M13 tag controversy that went on. So it's your argument against said point that's moot.

DefenderOfDoom24247d ago (Edited 4247d ago )

to DragonKnight //so going by your comment, are saying that is okay for me to make a MICHAEL JACKSON MEGAMIX with new beats, doing some cutting and edits , throwing in some of his new songs from new MICHAEL JACKSON album and making my own CD art cover, and sell them on the street and to BEST BUY! Now people would buy that CD from me because my cuts and remixes that i did, and would be entertaining to people. Lets be real here though , they would buy the CD from me because they love MICHAEL JACKSON ! And i would have to make a deal with EPIC RECORDS to sell that CD. Without permission from EPIC records i could and should be arrested for selling copyrighted material!
Besides reviewers and first impression videos . I think NINTENDO should get a cut of profits made off LET's PLAY YOUTUBE videos using NINTENDO copyrighted material. but i agree with you this is making NINTENDO look very bad!
Also can you give me a example of how SONY is going after people using their music for their own profit! It take ten of thousands of dollars for SONY to produce music. Me being a promoter of music for SONY records and other record labels. i have permission to promote their music without having to pay SONY or other record labels! They used send me so much music and i would play it the radio to promote their music! SONY has been good to me ! The problem lies with YOUTUBE not SONY RECORDS!!!

DragonKnight4247d ago

Do you know how many people do that? Even professionally in the industry? It's called sampling and has been done for decades. Ever heard Vanilla Ice's song Ice Ice Baby? Listen to that then listen to Under Pressure from Queen which came first.

As to why people would buy your CD, they likely wouldn't. Why? Because your beats would probably ruin the original song, which is what people would want to buy in the first place.

Let's Plays are reviews. They are scoreless reviews done without any corporate baggage as well as to entertain.

LoveOfTheGame4246d ago

Ugh...Dragonknight you are losing focus on your comments again, the only thing I ever have a problem with you.

What you failed to mention is how Vanilla Ice was sued over that song for copyright infringement and had to pay royalties to Queen & David Bowie.

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SilentNegotiator4248d ago

People watch VG videos for help with playing the game, seeing the game in action to make a decision on buying, or for the personalities behind the video. Either way, the publisher does not deserve profit from it.

You may as well suggest that reviewers, parodies, and critics give studios a cut of their ad revenue.

DefenderOfDoom24247d ago

Response 2 your 5th bubble > Now i am confused, You know that QUEEN, DAVID BOWIE,and VANILLA ICE all shared the profits from the single ICE ICE BABY! That is a fact! So are you saying that "Let's Play YOUTUBE videos" with NINTENDO games, should share the profits with NINTENDO ?
My real question to you is . Why are you hating on SONY MUSIC GROUP? What have they done wrong thru your eyes?
A good "youtube" video to watch about this topic is "The great YOUTUBE copyright fiasco of 2013" by SUPER BUNNYHOP

SilentNegotiator4247d ago

I'm assuming you meant this comment for someone else?

Meep4248d ago (Edited 4248d ago )

I understand your point. Creators make a game and they should get a cut from anyone using the game to make money, but I would still disagree to an extent. A counter argument would be that channels like Game Grumps(I watch that shit like its a tv show) aren't about the games. Its about the personality. It doesn't matter what game the channel plays, you just want to see some funny videos that include games. So using an example like Game Grumps, I would say that the channel has great personalities on it, and the games are secondary to them.

Although there is the other side of the spectrum. Where some LPs don't even talk and they just record games like Heavy Rain or The Walking Dead. I would understand if those guys had to give a cut, because the game in the video is the main event.

I wouldn't be surprised if Youtube allows the publishers of a game to get a percentage. I say got for it. IMO I feel that the free market will just decide which games get talked about and which games don't. If Activision decides to demand a cut of the profits, that would mean people would not bother making videos about it, and probably make videos of the next best thing (In this case it would be Battlefield).

randomass1714248d ago

I probably should have stated something along those lines in the blog. Walkthroughs should held at a much higher level of accountability than LPs since all they do is show off the game in its entirety. In my view, those kinds of videos should provide all ad revenue to the publisher. LPs, I'm more comfortable with a cut than losing all revenue and it's mostly because DragonKnight made an excellent point about how a LP's focus is on the person who is in it and not so much what game he or she is playing.

garrettbobbyferguson4248d ago

So, how about Game Grumps release their videos as audio only. Would you still watch it? Useless blabbering and just saying random crap isn't a personality. I can easily go make youtube videos and yell random crap and call it my own talent and content.

But this is a perfectly fair compromise. Again, remove the video aspect, and you have nothing. You can't just use someone else's content and think you can make money off of it.

Meep4248d ago (Edited 4248d ago )

"So, how about Game Grumps release their videos as audio only. Would you still watch it?"
If it was more of a podcast, I would.

"Useless blabbering and just saying random crap isn't a personality."
I don't watch much LPs but the reason I watch Game Grumps is because there are at least 2 hosts. This provides more banter. I wouldn't necessarily call it random, at least compared to other LPs like Pewdiepie and others. Game Grumps picks a topic and they talk about it.

"I can easily go make youtube videos and yell random crap and call it my own talent and content. " Yes welcome to youtube. As long as you put enough of your thought.

SilentNegotiator4248d ago (Edited 4248d ago )

"So, how about Game Grumps release their videos as audio only. Would you still watch it?"

Why not? Arin Hanson has done everything from cartoons to voice acting to singing to dancing to GameGrumps...he seems to get positive attention with every project he does. Which just goes to show how wrong you are that it isn't about his personality.

garrettbobbyferguson4247d ago

@silentnegotiator

Yes, I watch Arin, I don't watch game grumps because they have terrible personalities and yell retarded crap back and forth to each other. But his actual content that he produces, yes that warrants the positive attention.

But again, how about you watch an episode of game grumps without ANY video. I doubt you'd watch it. If these people have such good personalities, they'd be able to use those personalities to produce content that isn't using OTHER PEOPLE'S INTELLECTUAL PROPERTIES. Which is what you and others on here cannot understand. Arin and jontron actually do produce their own content, so it's entirely understandable that they have talent. But they do not put that talent to use on gamegrumps.

I have no idea why people on here and on youtube (looking at TotalBiscut) think they can make money off of other people's content. Then they're so entitled, they bitch about it when the owners want some of the money they're making. This is true entitlement. Thinking you are allowed to use other people's content to make money.

SilentNegotiator4246d ago

Good for your opinion. But millions of people DO enjoy Arin's work on Game Grumps. They could be talking over ANYTHING and people would still watch.

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SuperBlur4247d ago (Edited 4247d ago )

that is just silly .. do professional skaters give a % of their earnings to the company from which they bought their skateboards? same thing for hockey players. . do they owe money to company that make their sticks every time they score a goal? that is just silly trying to justify this closed minded approach.. .just goes to show how out of touch nintendo is with the rest of the world

Museigen4248d ago

Clearly you have no understanding of what Nintendo actually owns, when it comes to their games. They only own the code of the game itself, which is why they say that a buyer of their game should not attempt to alter it in any way. The same goes for any game publisher, they only own the code that makes up the game. I see people like you all the time, who try to take the publisher's side. The majority of you say the same thing, the publisher owns the visuals, everything the game displays.

When all that means is they own the code, that makes those visuals, and everything the game displays. It's just a bunch of code, what they claim they own in visuals, and everything the game displays, is just a twisted byproduct of the actual truth. As long as the user doesn't tamper with the code, he or she is ok to do whatever they want with their game. We go out and buy these publisher's games, and they say we don't own the games. So you're ok with spending $60.00 for something you don't own?, more if it's a collectors edition.

Smh, the honest truth is no, Nintendo should not get a dime. In most cases people who watch let's plays or walkthroughs end up going to buy the game they look at, in the case they don't already have it. So Nintendo or whatever publisher, actually benefits from let's plays, and walkthroughs of their games by gamers. Besides that, it's not Nintendos game anymore, it's a copy of a game someone bought with their money, that they now own.

Seriously, these publishers act as if these let's players, and walkthroughs are broadcasting the actual code of the game itself. Which if this were the case, then yes, the let's player would clearly be in the wrong. This is not the case though, these let's players aren't selling the game. They are playing their copy of a game, and giving their insight on it, if they're doing commentary.

The publishers don't own these things in the latter. If publishers came out tomorrow, as a group, and said 'gamers if you buy a copy of our game, you don't own it'. The game industry would plummet into the abyss, never to return. No one would buy something they would not own after purchasing?

randomass1714248d ago

Yes, I side with the publishers. I think that's obvious, why point it out? I think the law disagrees with you completely. The publishers own the code, the audio and the video. The second and third of which are presented in nearly every Let's Play. Furthermore, what of Let's Plays that display the game in its entirety and providing the entire story? You could never get away with that in film commentary, where the audio and video is both owned by the film distributer/rights owner.

"Besides that, it's not Nintendos game anymore, it's a copy of a game someone bought with their money, that they now own."

A game that was made by Nintendo and licensed by Nintendo. They own the rights to it. From a legal standpoint your idea of a gamer owning the game product is also incorrect. Read any video game license agreement. When you buy a video game, you don't own it, you a license to play an official copy of the game on disc or digital based media. Two completely different things. If any of these products were considered open source similarly to most Valve games, then you would be on point.

kingdom184248d ago

Honestly don't know how I feel about this but let's look at this way. You go to a supply store and purchase wood, the store profits off of you for buying the wood which they made, as in they acquired and refined it, then you take the wood make a fabulous birdhouse, splat some paint on it and sell it for a premium, does the supply store deserve a cut in the money made off the Birdhouse? This may be going a little far but you get what I mean, counter argument/point please.

randomass1714247d ago

Yeah, I see what you're saying there. Although I would argue that having the tools to create something is not quite the same as using another creative product as part of your own. If the world that way I would need to pay the manufacturer of my laptop and internet provider to, for example, make money writing on the internet (if I had such a job that is).

It's a tough thing to look at and I don't think it's as black and white as some folks make it out to be. But in my view at least, since YouTube allows people to make money by creating videos, I feel if you're using an IP that doesn't belong to you, such as a video game's content, then some of that profit does indeed belong to the people who made that game. I know the opinion is unpopular, and some of the commenters here are providing good counterpoints, but that's just how I see it. Whether or not other publishers actually do it is neither here nor there honestly.

JD_Shadow4247d ago

There's a lot of things that the law hasn't caught up to yet in terms of this sort of issue. Considering that gameplays aren't static like movies, music, or books, the same rules don't apply because you have to consider transformative works and how it applies to games. The game itself, such as characters, music, or whatever, is the property of whoever made them (whether in house or they licensed it). However, once you go to play the game, you're essentially interacting with that game, and you're deciding how you want to progress through the game. This is where it gets more difficult to assess.

For the most part, game companies have sought to allow this because they know how valuable it can be to have that sort of attention driven to the game. If you see someone actually having fun playing the game, then you're more inclined to buy said game. It's especially true for indy developers that don't necessarily have the kind of money on lucrative advertising deals, and must rely on word of mouth to tell people that the game exists. That's invaluable to have as a tool. For the most part, the issue came with the licensed music that is within the game, which gets even murkier because then there's the issue with what kind of contract that licensee has with the publishers.

There's always the problems that TotalBiscuit had with FUN Creators and the Day One incident, where devs tried to say that he didn't have the clearance to make his videos on their games when he provided evidence that made it clear as day that they did give him explicit permission to.

kingdom184247d ago

You've made some very good points and its most certain that there is no clear answer to this yet. Hmmm perhaps a way to balance it would to enforce Let's Players to purchase modest licences to be able to profit off videos, and these licences would only be required for the higher tier Let's Players while those who much lower viewer counts wouldn't suffer any penalties, and to make even it cheaper for those who require licences perhaps they could opt to include an ad at the beginning to promote the Devs/Pubs products.

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