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DragonKnight

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Am I Really You? Discussing Silent Protagonists

Happy April Fools everyone. Hope you didn't get anyone hurt with your pranks; or maybe I should hope that you did considering the skill in pranks has continuously dropped year after year.

The last blog I wrote was discussing why iconic characters like Link should be left alone and not subjected to gender/race politics especially when the benefits are either unquantifiable or negligible to the point of not mattering. Several people made the argument that Link is meant to be a representation of the player and not really his own character. This blog discusses why that is not actually accurate using the Silent Protagonist character as the main focus.

I submit that, but for the exception of games like The Elder Scrolls where the player creates a character that has no personality and no identity except that which the player gives it, the player is not meant to BE the protagonist, but instead to be the protagonist's guiding consciousness which is very different.

Forgoing the Legend of Zelda example for now, I'd like to focus on other games that have Silent Protagonists or even games that have a clear hero in mind but a morality system designed to allow for choices that impact the world and story of each game.

I start with a small example from one game. Final Fantasy VIII. Now, on its own this game is not a good example, but it does contain the perfect example through the Laguna dream sequences. A few instances throughout the game has the characters mentioning "Faeries" which the characters assume are entities capable of guiding people towards some goal or destination. The Laguna dream sequences are events whereby the consciousness of 3 party members (one of which will always be Squall) are sent back in time to occupy a space in the body and consciousness of Laguna, Kiros, and Ward. If, as the player, you attempt to take actions against the predetermined actions that can take place, a prompt shows up whereby the characters act confused as to why they are taking such actions and come to the conclusion that the "Faeries" must be the ones guiding them to do so even though they (the characters) don't have to actually undertake said action.

This shows a prime example of the idea of a guiding consciousness being used to affect interaction, though in this case it is a game mechanic and not due to having a kind of "blank slate" character.

Next I move on to The Suikoden Series of JRPG games. This series is one of my absolute favourites because there is just so much to do and some of them have amazing stories. With the exception of Suikoden 3, each Suikoden game in the main series features a Silent Protagonist. Some of the games make allowances for a basic personality type among the main protagonists though, as referenced by interactions among NPCs that have a relationship with the protagonist. This is an important aspect to remember. Personality is not solely what the character does, but how the characters around him/her know them to be.

In Suikoden I you play as Tir McDohl, the son of a famous general who was going to enlist and follow in his father's footsteps. Through interactions with his best friends, we find that Tir is stalwart, brave, and kind; willing to do what is necessary for the greater good. Through dialogue options you can foster this personality type, or you can change him to be clownish, harsh, or lazy. This is a common reality in the other Suikoden games, most particularly Suikoden V as there is a small affinity system in place that you can manipulate to give you different endings. Through these games we see heroes with definable personality traits, yet at the same time those traits can be manipulated by the player as anyone's life choices can be changed day to day by our own consciousness.

Though I have many JRPG classics I can choose from to further this point, I'm going to move on to a series that's completely different in literally every way. The Infamous Series. 3 Infamous games, 2 protagonists with clearly defined personalities and identities, and neither of them are Silent Protagonists. Cole McGrath and Delsin Rowe are two very different people. Cole is more of a reluctant hero who tried to make the best of a bad situation and Delsin is an immature guy who comes to see his power the way a kid sees a toy store. Cole never wanted to have his powers, but decided to use them to save the world and likely inadvertently created the conditions for Delsin's powers to activate. Delsin also never asked for his powers, was freaked out about having them at first, but then came to the conclusion that he could use his powers to shape the world the way he wanted it to be. In both cases, you as the player decided the shape those worlds would take and the personalities that Cole and Delsin would develop.

Infamous' morality system really hammers the point home that you, the player, are guiding Cole and Delsin to being specific kinds of people. It takes a very Black and White approach to things, which I find is rather disappointing since life is really just a lot of gray; but even though Cole and Delsin are very much their own people, the morality system puts you in the role of conscience and asks you to guide how each character will develop. Will Cole or Delsin be Champions of Good or will they become InFamous? That's all up to you, but in the end you are not Cole or Delsin, you are Jiminy Cricket.

So now we come to The Legend of Zelda and the idea that you are Link. Well we have to ask if that's true or not. People will say "you can name Link whatever you want and so Link is obviously meant to be a reflection of you." Is he? Or is it more likely that Link is merely to be the avatar of your decisions but is still his own person? Link has a design. He doesn't look like you, he doesn't sound like you (for the games where Link makes grunts when fighting), and you can't change that. Link has a mission. Whether it's to find the pieces of the Triforce and unite them to stop Ganon, save Princess Zelda from certain doom, or whatever else he has to do he is on a set path with a set goal. You as the player get to decide how he goes about accomplishing that goal, but that's really all you get to do.

Now the obvious point to make here is that games are subject to the limitations of their mechanics, so obviously you wouldn't be able to actually make Link become a blacksmith instead of the hero of Hyrule, but that's the point. Games like that exist. Skyrim lets you be a Nord that can cast magic even though they hate it. Dragon Age lets you be an Elf that uses Two Handed Greatswords. The Souls games allow you to pick classes with set stats only to show you that your starting class literally means nothing because it's how you choose to develop your build that matters in the end.

The point is that there are ways to truly make you the actual star of the show, but most games don't. You are simply the "Faeries" that guide the actual star along a certain path. Most Silent Protagonists are not you, you are them. You act as the part of their being that makes the decisions to cause certain outcomes but that's all that you are. Of course, the argument in psychology can be made about what is a person, but that's an argument for elsewhere.

I look forward to thoughts in the comments, but I expect to see "Nintendo said..." comments as well. Keep in mind that this blog isn't meant to solely be about Link, but any Silent Protagonist that one can play as. It's important to notice the world as it interacts with the character as much as how the character interacts with the world.

SteamPowered4043d ago

I really liked the Conversation options from Elder Scrolls and Mass Effect where you get about 4 options to choose from. 1 is positive, 1 negative, 1 pursuade positive, and 1 negative intimidate, regarding the conversation. That to me, felt like my choice, whether the intimidate or pursuade went against me, well thats the chance you take.

Link on the other hand really adds nothing other than a few grunts here and there. The conversation options are incredibly limited.
The Author is absolutely right about link being silent, it drives me nuts sometimes. Lets face it, Link has no personality. Zero. So as for immersion, Zelda games will never really hit it off with myself, which is fine. Thats not what the game is about.

Silent protagonists can make a character feel incredibly distant to the player. I think it all lies in whether the protagonist is a person that the player would even want to hear from or not.

Concertoine4043d ago

Xenoblade chronicles was a JRPG that really benefited from having a rounded, non silent protagonist. Sad to see the sequel seems to ditch that for the create-your-own silent protagonist. Not that that route is bad, it's just used so often nowadays.

mixelon4043d ago (Edited 4043d ago )

I enjoyed reading/thinking about this. :)

I would like to see Link's character elaborated on, but I don't particularly mind if they add different appearance/gender options, etc. As long as it all fits the story they want to tell - I'd like it either way. There's nothing wrong with the standard hero's journey, and him being a very specific, if vacant guy - like they usually have, but it wouldn't do any harm for them to experiment with things like decisions and more weighty material. Most complex it's got is Majora's Mask, which is my favourite in the franchise.. A lot of deeper story stuff there. I'm not talking about making it gritty/grimdark though.. I'm more alluding to hideo miyazaki type depth, which gets aesthetic and atmospheric nods in the Zelda series, but they can potentially still go deeper while still having it be kid-appropriate. (lol off topic!)

I rarely feel like I was my avatar/character as such, bloodborne is a good example - despite making the character look like me there's no feeling of "being" him. When I play Half-Life2 I feel like I'm mind controlling Gordon, not like I am Gordon. Though that gets increasingly peculiar when using VR.. That makes it feel a lot more like it's happening to you than someone else, even though technically it's no different. Whether VR will change how people want their characters to look is a weird question too. I wonder how people's experiences/perceptions differ.

The funniest games I can think to bring into a avatar identity discussion like this are the old Ultima titles, where you were playing as a guy/girl who was pulled out of modern day to this olde world fantasy setting and everyone there knows you as "the avatar" .. So.. You're playing some other guy.. who got pulled into a vortex.. Who isn't you, but sort of is (in some titles more than others)? Weirdly meta. XD Is hack/sign like this too? I've not played them. I like the whole tron/matrix meta-narrative stuff, in it's place.

DragonKnight4043d ago

Legend of Zelda is a perfect example of Nintendo overall. Stuck in the past. I just watched a video about how Nintendo issued a DMCA claim to take down a fan made, free, HD touch up of the first area of Super Mario 64. A free project hurting no one and Nintendo stuck with an ancient copyright law to protect an old IP they aren't making any money off of anymore. That's the way Nintendo thinks. They are unwilling to do anything remotely different with their IPs. Personally speaking, I want to see what LoZ would be like if it were more adult and more action oriented. Imagine an LoZ game with all the puzzles and beauty, but with like a Devil May Cry combat style and a kind of battle hardened Link. It will never happen though.

I also want to see something similar with Mario. A game where he does more than just jump on enemies or use various power ups. From Super Mario RPG and Smash Bros. we've seen Mario is a capable fighter. Why not integrate that into a main Mario game?

Personally I like character creation even though it's my biggest weakness in games. I am constantly creating and recreating characters to the point of hurting actual progression in the game, but I'm still having fun so I suppose that's all that matters.

coolbeans4042d ago

Depending on the situation, it can sometimes feel like I'd ask myself that of some silent characters. As ground-breaking as it was, GTA3's storytelling work with Claude (playable character) could make him feel like a secondary character in his own story.

But as far as LoZ goes, this redecorated argument still doesn't land only because it's still limiting Link, his stated design intention, and the idea of a what a tabula rasa is down to just the guiding consciousness of the character. Typically, the tr philosophy of having silent characters comes down to them being empty vessels that offer more accessible immersion, which in turn allow players to fill in the gaps for themselves. Link's got the qualities of a brave adventurer out for a quest but a lot of other stuff is just up in the air.

Technically, Link's doesn't even fit the typical role of a silent protag since he does "talk" via dialogue choices made by the player but doesn't utter any sound, which I think is due to the designers not wanting the Hylian accent to disrupt the player experience. Even the connotations of being named Link can theoretically lead back to him being considered a "link to the audience," when considering the etymology of the word.

DragonKnight4042d ago

A) See "games are subject to the limitations of their mechanics." To address most of what you said.

B) "Technically, Link's doesn't even fit the typical role of a silent protag since he does "talk" via dialogue choices made by the player but doesn't utter any sound, which I think is due to the designers not wanting the Hylian accent to disrupt the player experience"

That would apply to most silent protagonists as all games with a playable character and NPCs require a method of interaction that the player can understand. Coming back to Suikoden, all of the silent protagonists in that series also have dialogue options and in some of the games they make grunts and other sounds during battle sequences. This all comes back to the limitations of game mechanics but doesn't erase the underlying fact that the world around the protagonist is just as responsible for conveying that protagonists personality as the protagonist themselves are.

coolbeans4042d ago

"See 'games are subject to the limitations of their mechanics.' To address most of what you said."

Shame it doesn't adequately address most of what I said. Most people who've brought up this benign question about Link being a girl understand that there are other games out there that do that. Just because that's true shouldn't make the initial premise be dismissed.

"That would apply to most silent protagonists as all games with a playable character and NPCs require a method of interaction that the player can understand."

But not all of them have designed dialogue options as that method, or one of the methods, of interaction. There's those that take something more of a Gordon Freeman route as well. And it's worth noting that the instances where it's seen most often would be with RPG's.

"...but doesn't erase the underlying fact that the world around the protagonist is just as responsible for conveying that protagonists personality as the protagonist themselves are."

I have to call into question how that'd be considering an underlying fact, but I guess I'm hopeful to see that elaborated on.

DragonKnight4042d ago

"Shame it doesn't adequately address most of what I said. Most people who've brought up this benign question about Link being a girl understand that there are other games out there that do that. Just because that's true shouldn't make the initial premise be dismissed."

And now you're going to give me an example of an iconic game character that was gender swapped of course, as well as explain how that was "expanding" the character's potential. Anyway, the point here is that there actually is a clear design intent with Link and if anything is limiting him it'd be that. Claim all you want that Link is intended on being a vessel for the player, but the entire purpose of this blog was meant to show that that means consciousness, not gender/racial identity or personality. Even the very fact that Link can have the traits of a brave adventurer contributes to the fact that you or I are not Link. Unless of course you're going to prove that Link's brave adventurer traits actually come from you or I and not a design intent.

"But not all of them have designed dialogue options as that method, or one of the methods, of interaction. There's those that take something more of a Gordon Freeman route as well. And it's worth noting that the instances where it's seen most often would be with RPG's."

This is a semantics argument. You're effectively agreeing with me but insisting on placing a "but" in there that only exists due to the sheer number of games available. I could just as easily reverse the argument against you and just switch Gordon Freeman to another character.

"I have to call into question how that'd be considering an underlying fact, but I guess I'm hopeful to see that elaborated on."

I'm going to assume you meant "considered" an underlying fact and say it doesn't need to be elaborated on. Play games. Record how the NPCs around the character interact with the character and if there was already a preexisting relationship with the character. See how they would describe the character through those interactions. In fact I already provided the Suikoden example. Those games contain protagonists who have friends designed to know the protagonist before you did. They are responsible for conveying aspects of the protagonist's personality in ways beyond your direct actions to shape him. They are an example of the environment conveying his personality and it happens in many many games, most notably RPGs. That is a fact you can come to see simply by playing games.

coolbeans4041d ago (Edited 4041d ago )

What? I'm not even sure how you would've predicted I'd bring something like up from that quote. Anyways...

"Claim all you want that Link is intended on being a vessel for the player, but the entire purpose of this blog was meant to show that that means consciousness, not gender/racial identity or personality."

And all my comments were to show my disagreement with that limitation by bringing up what he's often been considered, which seems to harmonize with what the LoZ's artists have brought up, and the principle that's based from.

"Even the very fact that Link can have the traits of a brave adventurer contributes to the fact that you or I are not Link."

Well, no...he's still a fictional character like in any other game. Keep in mind that just because there's some base set of traits your playable character may have, like in other fantasy games, doesn't take away the idea of him still being an empty vessel like I mentioned in the first comment.

"This is a semantics argument. You're effectively agreeing with me but insisting on placing a "but" in there that only exists due to the sheer number of games available."

It's an argument of different qualities, not semantics. While I am agreeing with that quoted part you mentioned before--since it's so vague, I'm saying that there are variations of silent protags in regards to interacting with the environment. Freeman just had to drop a can into the dumpster or throw the can to meet that requirement. What makes Link more on a gradient towards Skyrim over that is by having dialogue choices, which can play a part in players filling in the other stuff that's up in the air.

DragonKnight4041d ago

"What? I'm not even sure how you would've predicted I'd bring something like up from that quote."

Actually that wasn't a prediction. It was a statement to say that if you were going to make that kind of generalization then obviously you should have examples to prove your point.

"And all my comments..."

So basically the already covered "Nintendo said..." argument. Again, this is covered in the blog with various examples.

"Well, no...he's still a fictional character like in any other game."

And this once again comes back to the limitations of game mechanics. An empty vessel doesn't mean "insert your identity into the character." It means "needs guidance." Link has other design intents besides having bravery.

"It's an argument of different qualities, not semantics."

Not really, it actually is an argument of semantics. My statement wasn't vague. It was quite clear. You decided to insert a "but" that's predicated on the sheer volume of potential character types. In the end you agree with my point but still have to argue it, and your.. linking.. of Link and Skyrim is completely flawed. Your character in Skyrim is essentially a mannequin. You are dropped into the story with absolutely no context, your character is literally created by you and has no semblance of personal identity or personality. Your character has no place in the world save for that which you give him/her. Will your character take on the task of the Dragonborn? Will they instead become a thief or assassin? Will they just spend all of their time blacksmithing, mining, or cooking? These are all things not available to Link.

You are dropped into the character of Link. A chosen Hero who has a mission and must complete it. Your only involvement is in guiding him towards the completion of that goal. The only variables involved are in what order you choose to progress to that stated goal. That is quite a large difference in comparison to Skyrim.

And for the last time. This blog is not a rewritten argument from the previous blog. It applies to any silent protagonist and even fully fledged characters, which I actually mentioned in the blog if you'd actually read the whole thing. Yes, I respond to an argument in the blog, but if you notice I actually spend most of the blog NOT talking about Link.

coolbeans4041d ago

"It was a statement to say that if you were going to make that kind of generalization then obviously you should have examples to prove your point."

To prove my point that saying "there are other games out there" shouldn't make us dismiss the Link being a girl argument? I figured that was a satisfactory consideration on its own.

"So basically the already covered "Nintendo said..." argument. Again, this is covered in the blog with various examples."

Now that's intentionally whittling down my argument. And honestly, for all of this discussion and past ones in which "design intent" has been brought up about Link, why can't the actual designer's spoken intention be brought into consideration for LoZ? Or we can't have that b/c that would be used against your subjective analysis of Link? (That's certainly not to say everyone should outright ignore the LoZ parts you've brought up for consideration here b/c "Nintendo said...")

"An empty vessel doesn't mean "insert your identity into the character." It means "needs guidance." Link has other design intents besides having bravery."

The usual intention with those empty vessels is to effectively make them a stand-in for the player. Sure, Link has the design intents of wearing a tunic, being a Hylian, and such but whatever lore-based stuff might be there still doesn't take away from him still effectively being a stand-in.

"In the end you agree with my point but still have to argue it, and your.. linking.. of Link and Skyrim is completely flawed"

Again, because of how I see how open-ended the "required method of interaction" comes off as being, I tried to reiterate a difference between Link from other silent protags. Link being able to "talk" in the game while Gordon Freeman, Chell, etc. don't do that.

With LoZ and Skyrim, just bear in mind that I'm only intending to show LoZ between Skyrim and HL (or whatever could be considered at the end of the spectrum). Just because Link's over-arching goal has been written in ink compared to the 'choose you own adventure' template of something like Skyrim doesn't discount the idea of showing particular comparisons with their silent protags.

"And for the last time..."

Like with every time I've commented on one of your blogs, I read the whole thing. I can't speak directly to those other examples you brought up since I haven't played them. Even if you spend most of your blog not away from discussing Link, why can't I decide to focus more on that part of the blog?

DragonKnight4040d ago (Edited 4040d ago )

Ok, I can't win a bubble war against you, so this is my final comment to you.

"To prove my point..."

Oh there are other reasons to dismiss the Link as a girl point. My issue with your point is that you made a statement you assumed was good enough but one you didn't back up. The point of there being other games is that there is precedent, lots of it, for how silent protagonists are used and how players are supposed to use them. I provided examples, you didn't. Guess that's the end of that.

"Now that's intentionally..."

Yep, it is. You're assuming that having a silent protagonist like Link automatically means you are meant to place your personality, your identity within the character. As though you are actually in the world yourself having the impact on the world. What Nintendo said doesn't automatically boil down to "you're in the game." Everything else about the games, the surrounding world, what Link is meant to do, and the very fact that you have absolutely no control over his appearance or personality traits at all follows conventional design parameters for silent protagonists and follows the idea that you are meant to be a guiding consciousness of the silent protagonist, not the protagonist yourself. You are coming at this from a simplified interpretation taking no consideration of every other surrounding element of the game world at all. That's why I preempted the "Nintendo said..." argument before it could even be used because I knew someone would do exactly what you're doing.

"The usual intention..."

Not addressing anything else until you provide proof or even examples to back up that statement. I have provided examples. I've accounted for more factors than simply one character. As we all know, games are made up of parts. The protagonist would be nothing without interaction with the game world, and the game world shapes our perception of said protagonist. Making a claim as you did should be easy to corroborate, or you can fall back on the "Nintendo said..." argument again.

"Again, because of how I see.."

Well how you see things leaves something to be desired. Your example of Link talking whereas Gordon or Chell don't is reaching. I could alter it to say that Skyrim's protagonist has dialogue options, but no actual presence at all unless you give them one. The dialogue options are the same no matter what you make, but until you actually make a protagonist, those dialogue options are irrelevant. Link may be different than Gordon or Chell because he has dialouge options, but if that's the case you're still proving my point. Link has options separate from you. The only part you play is in which option is carried out. Again, that's what a guiding conscience does. Skyrim allows for more ability for you to be the protagonist than LoZ does because you actually MAKE the protagonist and decide what path they take.

"why can't I.."

You can focus on whatever you want, but...

You've decided that my blog is a rewrite of the previous blog about Link being a girl. It's not, and the fact that you're focusing on the smallest part of the blog smacks of removing context and intellectual dishonesty. If you can't speak to the other examples, it means you're coming into my blog from a position of ignorance, completely ignoring the evidence I built up. You completely miss the point of this blog just so you can further argue what exactly? That the possibility of Link being a girl should be considered because... reasons? Right.

coolbeans4038d ago

-"My issue with your point is that you made a statement you assumed was good enough but one you didn't back up."

Solely because I'm suggesting not to throw out a benign question based on the idea of "there's other games out there" doesn't really seem demanding of a need to "back up."

-"The point of there being other games is that there is precedent, lots of it, for how silent protagonists are used and how players are supposed to use them. I provided examples, you didn't."

My first comment started with me using one of your examples provided and reinterpreting how that could be examined. But true, beyond that I didn't bring up multiple examples. With the other titles I had brought up, one could easily get the impression they're doing more than piloting say Gordon Freeman. The thoughts and emotions going through the player's head aren't that far removed from what a voiced Freeman would be thinking.

"You're assuming that having a silent protagonist like Link automatically means you are meant to place your personality, your identity within the character."

My first comment disproves the notion that it "automatically means" that. I didn't discount your other examples and my comment reflects that. And now you're trying to argue semantics of what Nintendo said. I do take into consideration the plethora of design/storytelling facets you mentioned, what's been brought up before by developers, and consider the fundamental ideal to be that of a tabula rasa. To intentionally limit what I've previously stated as just being "Nintendo said..." is disingenuous.

"You've decided that my blog is a rewrite of the previous blog about Link..."

My first comment limits that to the LoZ portion of the text, though. I didn't, or at least didn't try, to suggest that's all your blog is about. I deliberately attempted to focus on what I'm more familiar with (from playing).

"You completely miss the point of this blog..."

You'd have to disregard much of the context of my posts to consider that or my intention for commenting.

Anyways, sorry that I'm a bother when in comes to these slower response times.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 4038d ago
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