I think not... obviously you have never driven, nor know anything about car setups in real life..

Disagree all you want, am only telling it like it is.

Am not knocking GT 5.. its a stunning game, but its plain stupid to say that it is as in depth as Forza 2.

Well guess what whitehawk, i played, Rfactor, GTR1&2, LIVE FOR SPEED, FORZA1&2, GT1&2&3&4, TOCA RACE DRIVER1&2&3, F1 most of them, most of the rally games that were worth taking a look at, and than most of the other driving games like N4S, BURNOUT, PGR.... This just what i can remember. And none looked as good or had as good car handling like GTHD. I`m not saying AI, or racing experience, i`m just saying looks and the way that the car feels when driven at high speeds.

.... and you have driven a car in real life at high speeds.. i think not!

Games are made to feel ok.. at high speed... try driving a real car at 160+ mph.. and then tell me it handles the same as most games you have played "rolls eyes"

ok first and foremost. i go to track days about three times a year with a group called speedventures.net in my 06 WRX and let me tell you. Forza isn't as natural feeling as GT5P. however, suffice to say there are things in GT5P that aren't as natural feeling as Forza. So arguing over which is better is pretty moot. However the main difference between GT5P and Forza is the drift physics. Forza's drift phsyics are hilariously unrealistic. It's too easy to drift. You can almost just tap the accelerator and keep countersteered and it just keeps staying sideways. Not as easy as GT3, but not as realistic as i'd hope. Now GT5P on the other hand, has great drift physics. Not exactly close to real either, nothing is. But man oh man it's fun drifting in GT and it seems PD really is perfecting it.

And to be honest, being a car enthusiast over a video gamer first. I'd play Forza 2 any day. But if it came to wanting a mature, all-out racing simulator. It goes to the GT series.

And you mean Forza2 has realistic car handling?! Ever try to do a scandinavian flick, there`s no weight transfer, or when you brake and turn in the same time the weight shifts forward, which means lots of grip to the front and very loose rear and you oversteer off the track. In forza2 all you get is understeer wether you brake or accelerate. The only way to oversteer is to accelerate hard in a RWD. Or when you drift and you try to collect the car you get the pendulum effect. None of that in Forza. GT might not have real handling but is the closest we got to reality, and is way better than forza.

Oh dear oh dear, yes I have done scandinavian flicks in Forza 2, there is one track with a load of hairpin turns that I had a lot of fun doing them on, not easy, easier in some cars than others, but very very possible. I did some power drifting in it too without spining out if I was careful which is realistic and I never had the pendulum effect, I guess you just need to know how to handle them.

Forza 2 could be better, and that's why I mention rFactor and the like, but boy is it much more realistic than GT, seriously dude, you have to be kidding.

And in case you didn't know, front wheel drive cars do tend to understeer more than rear wheel drive cars and if you think Forza 2 understeers too much that's because your used to the too much grip in GT and think you could go that fast around corners in the real cars.

FWD do tend to understeer more but at 100+mph when you turn sharply and brake in the same time rear end should still brake loose, and none of that in forza. And why when you watch a race on live the handling of the cars don`t look too realistic.

And about the pendulum effect i`m saying how comes you don`t get any in forza2. When you lose control all you have to do is just give it some opposite lock and you got total control. Every beginer can drift in forza2. No experience needed.
And last time i played GT was over 2 years ago. I just bought a PS3 a week ago and been playing GTHD. And i played forza2 to death, so i know all the pros and cons.

Which version did you play? Do you have a HDTV? A lot of people hate on these next gen games becuase they are still playing them on 25 inch square non HDTVs and on regular stereo systems. You need at least 5.1 or 7.1 sound and a 720p/1080i HDTV to enjoy any of these next gen games. And do not forget this is just a demo...the final version might have the blur effect...I though i saw traffic check in the game? Did you get the railroad tracks or the parking garage and practice drifting in the parking garage? I did that last night with a friend online...it was so cool. There is no other game like this out there. They took burnout to the next level. The online integration is better than any other game on the market.

Now since the world is so huge...i think the 8 player limit might be too small.