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Microsoft 'would rather be finished with Indie Games', says indie developer

Indie developers have expressed their disappointment over Microsoft's decision to give Xbox Live Indie Games less exposure on the new Xbox 360 dashboard, with one developer suggesting that the move may force him to stop developing games for the format.

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gamerzines.com
darthv725247d ago

as a gamer I am seeing loads of new indie stuff on xbla. I just dont see where there is a problem with finding it.

Game...game type...indie. How hard is that? I have to do the same thing when looking for new arcade stuff and games on demand.

WrAiTh Sp3cTr35247d ago

They basically want ads for the Indie games, but they don't want to come out and say that because that would be hypocritical. I was going to say Arcade games don't have ads either, but then I see the Shadow Complex ad. I love the new dashboard because it's faster and it has 100% voice command, which is sweet. But I do understand where these Indie devs are coming from because the Indie and Arcade section HAS been pushed further back into the system; it's not by a lot but it's definitely out of sight more than the previous dash. It would've been nice if MS thought about being able to move the different categories around to suit people's taste. And also, if they're going to have an ad for an Arcade game, then they should have one for Indie games, although that was the first ad I noticed for an Arcade game.

darthv725247d ago

I am betting they are wanting to be incorporated into the new releases section of the games channel. I tend to look there first to see whats...new.

As it shows both arcade and 360 games it doesnt show new demos of these games. Seems to be only the full games and pricing. So I have to go to the demos section to see the new demos and the arcade section for new arcade demos and of course the indie section for new indie games.

The new release section would get overly cluttered with all sorts of material if they added indie stuff. They could use a sorting option like they do in other sections. So you could sort by arcade or indie but still I find it just as easy to go through the game types.

Now this may seem really strange but what I dislike about the new dash is that you cant browse through the different ads. YES you read that right. I may want to watch a funny vid that is part of an ad but when you change the channels (like from games to social) and you come back to the channel that had the ad, it is a different ad.

I was trying to show my kids the doritos superbowl commercial contest (which was only selectable as an ad in the lower corner) and when I went to find it....it wasnt there. The ads are random but sometimes there are ones that are far more common than others (chuck norris WoW ad Im talking about you!).

People may hate ads but there are some that are worth seeing and when you want to see them again, you just cant because there is something else in place. No matter how many times you flip through the different channels (video, games, social, etc) you wont get it back. Grrrr!

Why o why5247d ago

fair point darth but you can alwaysnuse the youtube service for those adds if you really wanna see em.

WrAiTh Sp3cTr35247d ago

What I meant by ads, I was talking about the Home section ads. There is an Indie game ad on the Game section screen, but these Indie devs probably want some of that Home section real estate, since that's the first one that pops up first when you sign in. I think the Indie section needs some type of Killer app, so more attention can be brought to that area, MS may be the ones that'll have to do it. In the console arena MS is the only one making it easy for "garage" developers to get their games closer to the big leagues...

Cajun Chicken5247d ago

I can't wait to see what developers do with the increased size allowance!

FrigidDARKNESS5247d ago

I find this story hard to beliece. This is the opinion of one developer who may be butt hurt at MS.
I think majority of indie developers won't walk away from the worlds largest on line install base.

Sprudling5247d ago

Reviews are also the opinion of one person, yet those are considered divine truth here on n4g. Except of course if the reviewer has a different opinion than yours, then it's either biased or looking for hits.

LettingGo5247d ago

Actually, the PSN and Steam both have more active users. :)

Hicken5247d ago

THIS is one opinion, yes.

OTHER opinions have expressed distaste about Microsoft's treatment of indie developers. Indie devs being disappointed by Microsoft is nothing new.

gamingdroid5247d ago (Edited 5247d ago )

@Hicken

***OTHER opinions have expressed distaste about Microsoft's treatment of indie developers. Indie devs being disappointed by Microsoft is nothing new.***

Ironically, no other console manufacturer than MS offers ANY indie gamers the ability to publish their game for less than $100, but MS get flack.

Try do that on PSN or Wii? The SDK alone will set you back $1800. Neither PSN or Wii services exactly has these cheap (and often cr@ppy) games from one-man studios like MS offers. You don't hear complaint about other services, because they are essentially non-existant!

This is more a case of "biting the hand that feeds you". I invite them all to go to PC, but I bet you they will all use XNA to make their game on PC too!!!

Why o why5247d ago

how much is it to publish those 'often crap' minis on psn..... Cant be that much, surely

gamingdroid5247d ago (Edited 5247d ago )

@Why o why

I don't know the cost of the minis, but I do know you need the SDK to even create content for it. The SDK alone cost around $1500 and that is after they dropped the price....

http://www.edge-online.com/...

Apparently people want it free on Playstation.Blog.Share with over 200 votes.

On Xbox 360, the dev kit (aka XNA) is $100 and allows you to publish 20 games. You can use the SDK/XNA for free on PC and it is easy to port games from PC to Xbox 360 to boot.

radphil5246d ago

"I invite them all to go to PC, but I bet you they will all use XNA to make their game on PC too!!!"

You know there's literally 100+ other coding programs people use and get by just fine, if not more, than XNA.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 5246d ago
StifflerK5247d ago

Indie games are in the exact same place as the Arcade + Games on Demand games .

(Games -> Downloadable -> type ....... and that's it.)

In fact, there's a link on the 1st page of the downloadable games section that takes you straight to the Indie games section , plus they also feature in the recommended section .

If anything Indie games are getting more attention then before ....... and they still complain.....???

darthv725247d ago

indie game prices have increased. The median price for indie content was around 80 points and now it has gone up to 200+/-.

Slade5247d ago

microsoft will be the one out of gaming full time after this gen

WrAiTh Sp3cTr35247d ago

Hope you're not a gambling man.

Slade5247d ago

why not? every report seems to think so.

Every report claims microsoft could care less about gaming and just wants tv services to your living room

Faztkiller5247d ago

I doubt that but it wouldn't bother me seems all they care about anymore is kinect.

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70°

Microsoft Gaming Revenue Drops 7% Year-on-Year, Content and Services Down 5%, Xbox Hardware Down 33%

Microsoft announced its financial results for Q3 of fiscal year 2026, including an update on its gaming Xbox business and more.

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simulationdaily.com
Jin_Sakai26d ago (Edited 26d ago )

Not looking good. Hopefully Asha Sharma is able to turn Phil’s disaster around.

dveio26d ago

To me it's still quite remarkable how they can cash-in 5.3bn in revenue in a single quarter, since their hardware is basically dead.

Jingsing26d ago

The stock mark is what makes Microsoft remarkable, They have convinced every institutional and retail investor to just keep piling money into them. Like many big tech giants they are just a big growing pyramid scheme. As long as people keep dropping money into ETF's that cover the market Microsoft will always be liquid. At the same time it is completely stifling innovation and competition. People need to start being more discreet in how they invest their money as it's killing the system.

Tanktopmaster9226d ago

Once they re-evaluate exclusive all will be fine….

S2Killinit26d ago

Riiiiight because people will just flock back to them for one or two games per year.

Jingsing26d ago

15+ years of bad performance is what they call irreparable in business. It is time for them to sell off the assets and get out of entertainment.

Tanktopmaster9226d ago

These declines are on the back of extra revenue received from releasing games like Forza horizon 5 on PlayStation. So I’m being sarcastic here when I said they should go back to exclusives. Killing off a revenue stream from Ps5 sales will only make things worse

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70°

Xbox boss: Memory crisis could impact next-gen hardware pricing

Xbox boss Asha Sharma has discussed how component shortages will impact the company's plans for Project Helix.

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gamedeveloper.com
Eonjay28d ago

When does this end? Its killing everyone. Consoles and PC. And for what? AI? The benefits of AI are completely outweighed by the negatives. And the government should have never allowed one company to buy up all the RAM.

Lexreborn228d ago

This kind of proves this is an after thought product, most products like this are in r&d 5 years before they start mass producing. So they typically have the cost of components and things worked out long before assembly starts.

This is an assumption still, but I wouldn’t be surprised if project helix is similar to Scalebound,perfect dark and sod3. They had an idea but no actual execution other than concept stage. Being impacted by the ram shortage likely would also put this device 3-4 years out.

I’m not even sure MS has that endurance with Xbox yet

Fishy Fingers28d ago (Edited 28d ago )

I mean.... what?

We're at a point that Samsung wont even provide their own phone department ram because they can sell it at higher prices to 3rd parties (AI). Its more profitable to sell the ram than make their own devices with it.

You think because R&D starts 5 years ago the 3rd party component manufacturers will honour that price? They'll sell it to whomever is paying the most today, not some gentlemens agreement they made years ago. AI farms will buy more volume at higher prices than any console manufacturer will. It'll be the same for Playstation.

Lexreborn228d ago

Contractual agreements are not the same as “gentlemen” agreements. If you think that they work with their distributors a month before production then their entire business model is trash. They work with companies like nvidia constantly for building the graphics cards they need. They work with companies that build motherboards years in advance. This is what proper business planning does.

They are not buying components on a whim like a consumer. So again, considering the ram isn’t a singular module and is integrated into the motherboard I highly doubt they wouldn’t have a final schematic that they are supposed to be building around.

If they are delaying production another 3 years then it’s obvious again this is an after though project and is just trying to be responsive to their bad execution they had the last 14 years.

It also isn’t far fetched to use their failure to produce first party titles the last 7 years including the highly anticipated games I mentioned all being cancelled. That they would continue to you know… lie

Sitdown28d ago

You don't really know how this works huh?

Profchaos28d ago (Edited 28d ago )

Helix is going to be stupidly expensive

Instead of leaning into smarter upscaling techniques they're brute forcing hardware that will cost them dearly and it remains to be seen if it's genuinely going to provide a meaningful differential

I know in the oc.doace people like to brag about not using frame gen or dlss to get to high on a game but for the majority of players they happily use those technologies without a second thought

That's going to be ps6 vs Helix

Eonjay28d ago

Yeah with FSR 5 they should be able to offer a much cheaper version of Helix.

Eonjay28d ago

While this does seem to be the case, I am encouraged by the statement from Microsoft about wanting to provide affordable options. If this means a Series S style Helix, at least there will be something affordable being offered.

XBManiac27d ago

Series S is what has killed Xbox Series so... Will they dare?

blacktiger28d ago

It's called systematic inflationary. Yes we get it Microsoft, keep raising in the name ofall kinds of stuffs

pwnmaster300028d ago

Honestly if there was thing I learned from this generation is that new consoles arnt day one anymore.
I can wait 1-3 years.

DarXyde28d ago

Another important lesson from this generation: while Nintendo showed us that prices don't necessarily need to ever drop, we've now learned that waiting 1-3 years does carry some risk that prices increase. This generation is just bizarre in all the wrong ways.

LucasRuinedChildhood28d ago (Edited 28d ago )

The factors are largely external. Covid and Russia-Ukraine war causing inflation led to the first price increase in 2022.

Then we get Trump's tariffs increasing hardware prices, AI boom causing a RAM crisis, war on Iran causing a worldwide fuel crisis which impacts the cost of everything.

Gaming doesn't exist in a vacuum. The last few years have been a shitshow and lot of it was definitely avoidable.

DarXyde28d ago

LucasRuinedChildhood,

For sure. No disagreement on the external factors doing a lot of this. Where I have to gently push back however is on two fronts:

1. The pandemic definitely caused some issues: asynchronous development was a big issue and really complicated timelines and affected game quality. At the same time, when it comes to price hikes, it's really difficult to know what was genuine necessity and what was taking consumers for a ride. The pandemic brought about "stag-flation" which was increasing prices and stagnant wages, which was a problem caused by supply chain constraints. There was also "Greed-flation", where companies that were slightly affected or had no issues took advantage of the situation and squeezed everyone citing supply chain issues when there were none.

2. It's definitely true that the tariffs, AI boom, and RAM crisis were all things enabled by tech broligarchs throwing money at this caricature of a world leader, one of them being Satya Nadella. I don't think Sony and Nintendo have contributed much to this problem if at all, but Microsoft's Nadella I feel was instrumental in causing every one of those issues. Microsoft as a company contributed to both candidates (though they gave Harris 4x as much if I recall), but Nadella was all in on letting AI run wild. He paid for unregulated AI, and got a war that's not a war (even though Trump called it that at least five times on television) that screwed up helium access. So for me, I feel that one of the players in the gaming industry is a key architect of these issues, and for that reason I struggle a bit to think of it as "external".

Show all comments (28)
50°

'The big things that we're thinking about'

In an exclusive interview with Game File, new(ish) Xbox boss Asha Sharma and Xbox chief content officer Matt Booty explain their vision for Microsoft’s gaming division

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gamefile.news
Agent7529d ago

A good start would be to release games to go with the console. My Xbox Series X has gathered dust virtually from launch. My advice would be to ditch a next console and release games on PC, PlayStation and Switch. Another idea would be a hybrid console based on Xbox Series X tech and go the same route as Nintendo. Another idea would be to pull out of gaming altogether. Plenty of options there.

Reaper22_27d ago

Why would they pull out? They have the momentum. Sony has been getting nothing but bad news lately.