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300°

Indie Developers Feel Distanced By Microsoft, While Sony Is Being “Very Supportive”

Indie game developers are reporting that they are not happy with Microsoft’s inaction towards them while Sony is making a very positive outward effort to help indie developers, especially those working with their new PS Vita.

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indiegamemag.com
fluffydelusions5235d ago

Not just indie either. MS wouldn't let Valve integrate Steamworks.

EVILDEAD3605235d ago

1. Not integrating Steamworks didn't hurt anybody..

2. It's easy to find indie or anything on Live. But people pretend after they find Indie..it's impossible to find it ever again..laughable

3. So if 34,000 people buy Fortress craft and love it..can't it be considered one the best indies out there.

4. I'm sure everyone on the Best of indie appreciated being on the list or winning the indie contests

Just my take..we hear that MS is the worst with Indie..but then you hear from some that say they had no issues and don' know what the negative hype is about

AtomicGerbil5235d ago

If some Indie devs are staying within the Microsoft limits and they don't develop for the Sony platform, then yes, they aren't going to experience problems.

Then we hear from others that those limits are quite unhelpful.

buddymagoo5235d ago

"Not integrating Steamworks didn't hurt anybody"

It hurt 360 fans wanting to play with their PC buddies. Steamworks is great for Portal 2 on the PC and PS3. I hope more titles implement it in the future.

EVILDEAD3605235d ago

'It hurt 360 fans wanting to play with their PC buddies. Steamworks is great for Portal 2 on the PC and PS3. I hope more titles implement it in the future'

Microsoft tried that feature years ago. Portal 2 still sold more on the 360 without the feature. Not worth it for Micrsoft to bow to Steam just for one game.

Evil

Darkfocus5235d ago

sales link? All I see is old articles on google from back when it hit three million that say PC sold the most and PS3 sold more than 360 so were are you getting your info?

yesmynameissumo5235d ago (Edited 5235d ago )

1. It didn't hurt anyone? Well, the XBL users that would've liked to play co-op with a PC buddy were hurt and it certainly helped Sony and PSN. Just b/c you wouldn't use it, don't discount the ones that would.

2. The guys that make indie games don't seem to share in that belief.

3. As far as the quality the XBLIG games go...yes, I think FortressCraft is one of the best indies on the platform.

4. Agreed

"Microsoft tried that feature years ago" - Yeah with shitty, shitty ShadowRun. And it was even really ShadowRun. Portal 2 sold more (in April) partly due to the PSN outage, partly due to larger NA 360 install base, let's be real. Counter-Strike has SteamWorks and more than likely, every Valve release on PS3 will. That's a big, FREE deal. No way around it.

EVILDEAD3605235d ago

1. It didn't hurt anyone? Well, the XBL users that would've liked to play co-op with a PC buddy were hurt and it certainly helped Sony and PSN. Just b/c you wouldn't use it, don't discount the ones that would.

Not discounting anything, but IF Mocrsoft want to keep Live closed then one feature in one game should sway them to bow to Valve.

EA felt the same way.

Again it didn't stop Portal 2 from selling on the 360 and if they needed to play the game with PC then they simply can get a PS3.

Evil

Trebius5235d ago (Edited 5235d ago )

Microsoft charges devs to patch their own games, charges indie developers more $ than SONY, SONY MATCHES their development cost if they dont make their money back with an indie release just to have new talent try to put their games out there and at least break even instead of lose money on an attempt at bringing a new type of game out there ...microsoft takes while Sony gives. Thats what it all comes down to. Yes they both have indie games, because itd be silly not to attempt to get a game on xbl considering all the consoles out there, it's a chance at some $...but Sony makes it a smaller financial risk than M$.

EVILDEAD3605235d ago Show
Kran5235d ago

If only you knew how much money of an Indie Game sale actually goes to Microsoft...

DigitalRaptor5235d ago (Edited 5235d ago )

@ EVILDEAD360

This is getting out of hand now man. Why do you constantly make irrelevant points about sales in a discussion about features and what Microsoft should be doing to benefit 360 owners? Of course 360 owners will still buy the game, that is not being refuted, but the topic at hand is what Microsoft can be doing to benefit their consumers even more.

"Portal 2 still sold more on the 360 without the feature. Not worth it for Micrsoft to bow to Steam just for one game."

"Again it didn't stop Portal 2 from selling on the 360 and if they needed to play the game with PC then they simply can get a PS3"

There we go again with the excuses. You honestly don't need to protect Microsoft like this, when they should be making more of an effort to make their platform open to services like Steamworks. It benefits the consumers and shows willing to bring the industry forward, rather than constantly focus on profit margins.

And it's not just one title. All of Valve's software releases on PS3 will do the same. As was mentioned, which is a huge bonus for a gamer. PS4 will do the same, so you'd hope that Microsoft works on their network to make it more open for the X720. That is all is being said.

jneul5234d ago

^^seriously ms is more bothered about which bolt on they can add onto kinect, you know what i watched yesterday, a control your sky tv with kinect, ms really are not focusing on hardcore gamers at the moment.. it's so sad-(

EVILDEAD3605234d ago

'There we go again with the excuses. You honestly don't need to protect Microsoft like this, when they should be making more of an effort to make their platform open to services like Steamworks. It benefits the consumers and shows willing to bring the industry forward, rather than constantly focus on profit margins.'

Ok FIRST OFF..

Stop OVER Reaching into my simple comments. Stop pretending I'm trolling or I ran over your dog.

EVERYONE including you has an opinion. I spoke mine.

The double standard hypocrisy is absolutely on level silly at this point.

I love Valve as a game company and been supporting every game since the original Half Life on PC.

I don't have to DEFEND Micrsoft or hate on Valve.

The negotiations between Valve and Microsoft over Steamworks whether now or in the future is between them.

Again whether it's Sony or Micrsoft, they are allowed to run their online services how they please. I just pointed out that MS or ANY company for that matter shouldn't be strongarmed because of one title. Not that I believe the good fellows at Valve were trying to do.

I simply said at the end of the day it didn't hurt anyone. Xbox gamers still supported Portal even without the addition of Steamworks (hence my sales comment). While PS3 gamers got to the choice play with their PC brethren.

The pros and cons of those benefits are obviously vary for Microsoft, Valve, and the consumer. Whether is happens in the future is anybodys guess.

When Sony announced that they would not be able to implement cross-chat, the uproar from Sony fans was that they did not NEED the feature and that it didn't hurt Sony whether that had the feature or not. How can you disagree with someones opinion that they don't need the feature? It's their preference.

Just my take

Evil

A-Glorious-Dawn5234d ago

You love your 360 don't you evildead?

Seriously you can never criticise it can you? Whatever ms does is golden.

Even a raging fanboy would have stopped by now. Give it up.

EVILDEAD3605234d ago (Edited 5234d ago )

@ A-Glorious Dawn

Two can easily play at this game..shall we?

'You love your 360 don't you evildead?'

I'm a gaming fan..period

I've been an Xbox gamer since the original launched & love my 360

I've owned EVERY single SONY console and love my PS3 Slim

I've owned every Nintendo and love my Wii

I'm on a gaming site and talk about the games and consoles I love.

'Seriously you can never criticise it can you? Whatever ms does is golden.'

Sorry I don't HAVE to criticise Microsft for no reason, just because YOU and others hate anytihng Microsoft releated.'

'Even a raging fanboy would have stopped by now. Give it up.'

My turn..You joined 3 months ago. You NEVER criticise Sony.

In fact, your ONLY purpose as a profile is to criticise Micrsoft and throw personal attacks at ANYONE who doesn't.

You have no intention on staying on topic, in fact, you keep following me around like a little puppy dog to throw your useless remarks at me.

So people like your profile who repeat what others write on hear daily and bash only ONE console and the people who admittedly play it are 99.9% multi-accounts, because they are too cowardly to just speak with one account and keep it moving.

So keep trolling me all day, your opinion about me is as meaningless as anyone who hides behind a keyboard bashing others for their opinion.

It's New Years..try a NEW tactic..because this old console war tactic is getting old.

log off and play a game..limit this profile to stealth disagrees,,because thats all you bring to the table

Happy New Year

Evil

+ Show (12) more repliesLast reply 5234d ago
Angrymorgan5235d ago

Msoft just have very strict rules with all devs, where Sony tend to be more relaxed.
Read somewhere that msoft refuse to support any multiplat game if it's better visually or in any other way on ps3/wii.........(stalthtroll)

B1663r5235d ago

There is no indy game market on PS3... None, nada zip. If you want to publish on PS3 you have to go through publisher. Additionally Sony has repeatedly said that there will be no app store on the Vita...

So yeah... Sony is more relaxed by the game market if by that you mean they don't have ~any~ option for indy game developers...

JellyJelly5235d ago (Edited 5235d ago )

Then how come Xbox Live as an indie games channel and PSN doesn't? I guess Microsoft created it because they hate indie devs?

@cgoodno - Since when are SNK Playmore, SCEJ and Gameloft indie devs? On XBLIG you can find games made by a single person, thx to MS great XNA dev tools and low publishing fees. I know you hate it but it's true.

They Should've had a Kinect indie channel up by now. Not a fan of Kinect but indie devs could surely do cool stuff with it that might make me change my mind.

Christopher5235d ago

Isn't there a PS mini's section on PSN? Aren't these the 'Indie' devs? Can't you play those on a PS3 or PSP (not sure about PSV)?

I thought both did a pretty good job of supporting Indie devs in their own way.

gamingdroid5235d ago (Edited 5235d ago )

I don't know how it works with Sony or Nintendo as I haven't seen anything similar, but on Xbox 360, anyone and I mean anyone with a $100 can publish their game on Xbox Live.

With that of course you are not getting the kind of exposure expected from larger publishers that pour quite a bit money into the development.

edit: Some research shows that to even start developing PSP Mini's you have to spend $1700+ for a dev kit:

http://www.diygamer.com/200...

The Wii Ware also has a dev kit that cost $2000:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Christopher5235d ago

***edit: Some research shows that to even start developing PSP Mini's you have to spend $1700+ for a dev kit: ***

You know, that sounds like a lot, but I spend more on developing software.

But, yeah, definitely a difference in price.

The question that goes unanswered is which company directly 'supports' them more. Dev aid, marketing aid, etc.

Still, I see a lot of Indie stuff on both and both provide a lot of quality high end Indie software as well (XBLA and PSN games).

yesmynameissumo5235d ago

Those kit prices look to be worth it when you look at something like "Firing Range" on XBLIG compared to "Where's My Heart" on PS Minis.

AtomicGerbil5235d ago

Doesn't stop MS being strict about what is put there. Pizza Hut has a salad bar, doesn't mean they care about it as much as the pizzas.

5235d ago Replies(3)
Christopher5235d ago

***@cgoodno - Since when are SNK Playmore, SCEJ and Gameloft indie devs? On XBLIG you can find games made by a single person, thx to MS great XNA dev tools and low publishing fees. I know you hate it but it's true. ***

Choosing a few out of the many isn't making a point. There are Indie devs who create PS Minis as well.

Furthermore, the Indie developers that have found the most success on XBL have also found it on PSN.

1) Limbo (Playdead)
2) Castle Crashers (The Behemoth)
3) Test Yourself: Psychology (Creat Studios)
4) Marvel Pinball (Zen Studios)
5) Worms 2: Armageddon (Team 17)
6) Dungeon Defenders (Trendy Entertainment)
7) Armageddon Riders (Targem Games)
8) Braid (Number None Inc.)
9) Under Siege (Seed Studios)
10) HamsterBall (TikGames)

Also, you should note that having a category of 'Indie Games' doesn't mean that Microsoft is being supportive of them directly. Nor is me saying that a sign that I believe they are not supporting them.

Also, Indie game developer does not mean a game made by a single person.

Also, I don't hate anything about either company helping Indie game developers. Don't try and turn anyone who replies to you with questions as to how valid these concerns are into some sort of attack against your thoughts, one company over another, or a sign that I'm looking to put any of them down for no good reason at all.

IAmCornHolio5235d ago (Edited 5235d ago )

None of those games you listed are indy's not a single one. Every single game you listed (another PS3 fanboy list???) had a publisher, thus the are not indy games...

edit:
Yeah, and having publishers and governments give them grants up front to develop the game is more like what happens with big commercial games, not the real life indy games. Limbo is not an indy game in any way but their desire to market to the art game crowd.

Christopher5235d ago (Edited 5235d ago )

@IAmCornHolio - Your definition of what an 'Indie' game is, is wrong.

http://blog.us.playstation....

The list is from the PSBlog originally, but most of the games are multiplatform and half of them are critically acclaimed.

Furthermore, many others note those as Indie games as well. Including Edge, IGN, and GameTrailers.

Furthermore, Limbo even won the recent Indie Game Challenge -- http://www.indiegamechallen...

You see, Indie doesn't mean it can't ever have a publisher. It means it was independently developed and did not have funding from a publisher or development company.

As far as being a PS3 fanboy list... you do know half of those are the top in sales on the XBL network as well? It's just a list I found on a quick Google search.

A-Glorious-Dawn5234d ago

Now he's a fanboy for sharing his opinion.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 5234d ago
nefertis5235d ago (Edited 5235d ago )

Kinect is in the for front right now. MS is counting there billions of dollars from kinect.

moparful995235d ago

Billions? Umm they spent 500 million developing the kinect plus marketing and they've sold 10million at 150 a pop thats not billions.. They are no where near a billion yet..

MasterCornholio5235d ago

Im pretty happy that Sony created playstationsuite to help the Indie devs out. I always appreciate games from those types of devs. For example theres an indie game on the Vita called Alien Spydey that looks like a great platformer.

IAmCornHolio5235d ago

No game gets on PS3 without a publisher. Zero, zip nada. If you have a publisher, you are by definition not an Indy... There is no Indy developer scene on PS3, it simply doesn't exist.

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70°

Microsoft Gaming Revenue Drops 7% Year-on-Year, Content and Services Down 5%, Xbox Hardware Down 33%

Microsoft announced its financial results for Q3 of fiscal year 2026, including an update on its gaming Xbox business and more.

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simulationdaily.com
Jin_Sakai1d 4h ago (Edited 1d 4h ago )

Not looking good. Hopefully Asha Sharma is able to turn Phil’s disaster around.

dveio22h ago

To me it's still quite remarkable how they can cash-in 5.3bn in revenue in a single quarter, since their hardware is basically dead.

Jingsing20h ago

The stock mark is what makes Microsoft remarkable, They have convinced every institutional and retail investor to just keep piling money into them. Like many big tech giants they are just a big growing pyramid scheme. As long as people keep dropping money into ETF's that cover the market Microsoft will always be liquid. At the same time it is completely stifling innovation and competition. People need to start being more discreet in how they invest their money as it's killing the system.

Tanktopmaster9220h ago

Once they re-evaluate exclusive all will be fine….

S2Killinit20h ago

Riiiiight because people will just flock back to them for one or two games per year.

Jingsing20h ago

15+ years of bad performance is what they call irreparable in business. It is time for them to sell off the assets and get out of entertainment.

Tanktopmaster9218h ago

These declines are on the back of extra revenue received from releasing games like Forza horizon 5 on PlayStation. So I’m being sarcastic here when I said they should go back to exclusives. Killing off a revenue stream from Ps5 sales will only make things worse

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80°

(For Southeast Asia) New Price Changes for PS5, PS5 Pro, and PlayStation Portal remote player

For Southeast Asia, new price changes.

Prices effective starting May 1st, 2026.

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blog.playstation.com
3d ago Replies(1)
BeHunted3d ago

Looks like PlayStation took a hit with Marathon and is now quietly adjusting prices worldwide to recover the losses

andy853d ago

Lets be honest raising prices doesn't do that when no one's buying it. I imagine the profit it greater selling 10 times more at a lower price

Pergele2d ago

Whatever you say buddy, let's all wear the tinfoil hats.

IceKoldKilla2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

LMFAO Your comment alone says a lot more about you than anything else. When has one game not selling 10 million copies made a company raise the prices of their console? Then Xbox would be costing $5000 by now lol. You remind of the crazy drug addicts on the street rambling on about conspiracies. xD You sure you don't need a hug, buddy?

ChunkyMonk2d ago

One game that Sony payed $200 million for. lol
Also, you sure were quick to get triggered. Maybe your the one who needs a hug?

Eonjay2d ago

If nothing else, we should be united against the real issue here. AI and unnecessary tariffs that are effecting all gamers.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 2d ago
Athlon1013d ago (Edited 3d ago )

The price increases are due to the RAM demand associated with AI and the US-Iran war. You can look to any business news website and local news to see that. Heck, even the 2026 Asus Zenbook Duo I've been eyeing has faced delays and has had a price increase of $400; that laptop has two specs. Asus is doing a staggered release with per-orders for the lower spec now and shipping in May and pre-orders for the higher spec that I'm eyeing starting in June. Basically, all computer manufactures are affected. It'll most likely start affecting smart phones too if it hasn't already. I can't remember the last time any major console maker (Nintendo, Sony, Sega, etc) increased the price of their console mid cycle outside of Microsoft just to make more profit.

S2Killinit2d ago

Its not the war. Its the RAM issue.

jznrpg2d ago

War is causing gas prices to rise. Transport of everything requires gas so the prices of those items go up as well. So it does have an impact

Athlon1012d ago (Edited 2d ago )

The blockage of the Straight of Hormuz due to the US-Iran war has affected raw components used in semi-conductor manufacturing such as bromine, aluminum, and helium. Iran had attacked the liquified natural gas (LNG) plant in Qatar which is a large producer (1/3 globally) of helium which is used in semiconductor etching. So it's the both the war and the RAM crises.

badz1492d ago

Oh no...should I get the Pro now before the price increase?

70°

Xbox boss: Memory crisis could impact next-gen hardware pricing

Xbox boss Asha Sharma has discussed how component shortages will impact the company's plans for Project Helix.

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gamedeveloper.com
Eonjay2d ago

When does this end? Its killing everyone. Consoles and PC. And for what? AI? The benefits of AI are completely outweighed by the negatives. And the government should have never allowed one company to buy up all the RAM.

Lexreborn23d ago

This kind of proves this is an after thought product, most products like this are in r&d 5 years before they start mass producing. So they typically have the cost of components and things worked out long before assembly starts.

This is an assumption still, but I wouldn’t be surprised if project helix is similar to Scalebound,perfect dark and sod3. They had an idea but no actual execution other than concept stage. Being impacted by the ram shortage likely would also put this device 3-4 years out.

I’m not even sure MS has that endurance with Xbox yet

Fishy Fingers3d ago (Edited 3d ago )

I mean.... what?

We're at a point that Samsung wont even provide their own phone department ram because they can sell it at higher prices to 3rd parties (AI). Its more profitable to sell the ram than make their own devices with it.

You think because R&D starts 5 years ago the 3rd party component manufacturers will honour that price? They'll sell it to whomever is paying the most today, not some gentlemens agreement they made years ago. AI farms will buy more volume at higher prices than any console manufacturer will. It'll be the same for Playstation.

Lexreborn22d ago

Contractual agreements are not the same as “gentlemen” agreements. If you think that they work with their distributors a month before production then their entire business model is trash. They work with companies like nvidia constantly for building the graphics cards they need. They work with companies that build motherboards years in advance. This is what proper business planning does.

They are not buying components on a whim like a consumer. So again, considering the ram isn’t a singular module and is integrated into the motherboard I highly doubt they wouldn’t have a final schematic that they are supposed to be building around.

If they are delaying production another 3 years then it’s obvious again this is an after though project and is just trying to be responsive to their bad execution they had the last 14 years.

It also isn’t far fetched to use their failure to produce first party titles the last 7 years including the highly anticipated games I mentioned all being cancelled. That they would continue to you know… lie

Sitdown3d ago

You don't really know how this works huh?

Profchaos3d ago (Edited 3d ago )

Helix is going to be stupidly expensive

Instead of leaning into smarter upscaling techniques they're brute forcing hardware that will cost them dearly and it remains to be seen if it's genuinely going to provide a meaningful differential

I know in the oc.doace people like to brag about not using frame gen or dlss to get to high on a game but for the majority of players they happily use those technologies without a second thought

That's going to be ps6 vs Helix

Eonjay2d ago

Yeah with FSR 5 they should be able to offer a much cheaper version of Helix.

Eonjay2d ago

While this does seem to be the case, I am encouraged by the statement from Microsoft about wanting to provide affordable options. If this means a Series S style Helix, at least there will be something affordable being offered.

XBManiac2d ago

Series S is what has killed Xbox Series so... Will they dare?

blacktiger3d ago

It's called systematic inflationary. Yes we get it Microsoft, keep raising in the name ofall kinds of stuffs

pwnmaster30003d ago

Honestly if there was thing I learned from this generation is that new consoles arnt day one anymore.
I can wait 1-3 years.

DarXyde3d ago

Another important lesson from this generation: while Nintendo showed us that prices don't necessarily need to ever drop, we've now learned that waiting 1-3 years does carry some risk that prices increase. This generation is just bizarre in all the wrong ways.

LucasRuinedChildhood3d ago (Edited 3d ago )

The factors are largely external. Covid and Russia-Ukraine war causing inflation led to the first price increase in 2022.

Then we get Trump's tariffs increasing hardware prices, AI boom causing a RAM crisis, war on Iran causing a worldwide fuel crisis which impacts the cost of everything.

Gaming doesn't exist in a vacuum. The last few years have been a shitshow and lot of it was definitely avoidable.

DarXyde2d ago

LucasRuinedChildhood,

For sure. No disagreement on the external factors doing a lot of this. Where I have to gently push back however is on two fronts:

1. The pandemic definitely caused some issues: asynchronous development was a big issue and really complicated timelines and affected game quality. At the same time, when it comes to price hikes, it's really difficult to know what was genuine necessity and what was taking consumers for a ride. The pandemic brought about "stag-flation" which was increasing prices and stagnant wages, which was a problem caused by supply chain constraints. There was also "Greed-flation", where companies that were slightly affected or had no issues took advantage of the situation and squeezed everyone citing supply chain issues when there were none.

2. It's definitely true that the tariffs, AI boom, and RAM crisis were all things enabled by tech broligarchs throwing money at this caricature of a world leader, one of them being Satya Nadella. I don't think Sony and Nintendo have contributed much to this problem if at all, but Microsoft's Nadella I feel was instrumental in causing every one of those issues. Microsoft as a company contributed to both candidates (though they gave Harris 4x as much if I recall), but Nadella was all in on letting AI run wild. He paid for unregulated AI, and got a war that's not a war (even though Trump called it that at least five times on television) that screwed up helium access. So for me, I feel that one of the players in the gaming industry is a key architect of these issues, and for that reason I struggle a bit to think of it as "external".

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