Why does no one include the price of the software when comparing prices?! Sony has already stated that the price of its software will be more expensive than the 360. In fact, I believe it was in the Aug issue of PSM in an interview. So lets break it down and keep in mind that I, and most of the gaming public, do not care about HD movies. Also, I don't use WiFi or even half of the 360's HDD.

360: $400
Extra wirless controller: $50
Play and charge kit: $20
8 games ($60 ea.): $480
Live: $50

Total: $1000

PS3: $600
Extra wireless controller: $50
Play and charge: $20
8 games ($70 ea.): $560 -or- 8 games ($80 ea.): $640
Cables: $30

Total: $1260 -or- $1340 depending on final price of games.

This is assuming I buy 8 games in one year. This is also assuming no PS3 developer charges for online and this is assuming the PS3 games are either $70 or $80. I doubt they would be more than $80 but as Sony said they would be more expensive than $60, then they will be at least $70. So, as you can see, for me, someone who doesn't use WiFi or HD movies, the 360 is a much better deal and has a more established online service. If the PS3s online is anything like the PS2's, then I don't want it.

For those that want WiFi and HD movies, the two systems are closer in price and the PS3 is a good deal, although I would still be ticked to pay more for Madden even though it's the same game on the 360. For those that don't want or can't use these features, the PS3 is not a good deal. The majority of gamers will not use both of these features so this article is not an accurate representation of the actual cost between both systems for the average consumer.

lalaland, you make a good point.
Me being Gamer 3 with my new 40" HDTV get the better offer.
Also, I think that for anyone who has a HDTV, a PS3 is the better option, since Blu-Ray will handle HD games on a single disc.
DVD-9...well...2 discs atleast.
EDIT: Please note- Im not saying the 360 is worse significantly (For now) to a SD gamer. Im saying that the PS3 will be a better choice for HD gaming.

I don't see what's so special about a wireless adapter. You can lower the price of Gamer 3 by not purchasing one. I'm not sure how all of your homes are furnished, but my cable jack and cable modem is in the living room by the TV. I don't need wireless, just a 5ft CAT-5 cable.

Here's a link where Sony says to expect PS3 game prices to be more than $60. This needs to be factored in when comparing console prices.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsS...

You can also read this in PSM magazine.

"...let's see once the official prices are out."

That's a good point, but aren't you comparing prices now? My point is that you can't compare hardware prices without factoring in the software prices (seeing as you already did that with LIVE). Since Sony said expect PS3 game prices to be higher than the 360's, we've got to assume that that will be the case (it makes sense, too, since bluray discs are more expensive than DVD9 discs).

If you also factor in what the costumer actually wants and/or needs out of the hardware, this changes the comparisions as well.
I definately agree, though, that if you want HD movies and WiFi, the PS3 is a good deal. Over time, though, you may still end up paying more because the software is more expensive, but that entirely depends on if you actually buy games. You could always rent them.

However, you must conceed that if you don't want or could use HD movies/WiFi, then the 360 is a better deal, seeing as you have the option with the 360 not to pay for them.

Both systems will have great games, so I'm not going to talk about the quality of games. Sony still has to prove the quality of its online service, however. It also hasn't been decided if PS3 developers will charge or not. The PS2's online sucked, so hopefully Sony does a better job this time.

Blanket comparisons, like the initial article, are misleading and wrong because there are other things to factor in.

Hands down the PS3 is ONLY CHEAPER if you want a Blu-ray drive PC. And the 360 IS CHEAPER as a gaming console. And if blu-ray does end up being the format after 2-3 years. That's a long time to assume which format will win don't you think. And trust me no one with their stats or company allegance can predict which format will win because all that can change in a matter of months.

All the super expensive and very uneccessary features like wifi and wireless are inconsiquential because barely anyone uses that or needs it. The funny thing here is that the PS3 will always need a big HDD because that's what all the games are going to have to use because of Blu-rays slow read time. So it's hard to just compare a 500ps3 with a xbox 360 because the HDD space isn't the same because your gonna use it alot on a PS3. And PS3's online is very undetermined and unproven. The question is if the online was decent or good why would they not disclose it's information?

how much truth can you handle...

With the 360 you get the basics. The average gamer dose not need WIFI. No gamer really needs any HD DVD drive.

The only reason why people are disagreeing here is because Sony is making BR standard in their console and Microsoft is not. If you say the 360 has no HD DVD drive and that makes it a weaker console you’re just diluted and blinded by your desire to see the 360 fail. It has already been proven that extra disc capacity is not needed yet.

I do not want the PS3 to fail at all. But I am not in a rush to buy one either. It dose offer a lot of feature as a standard that the 360 dose not but that dose not handy cap the console at all. I see there are people in a rush to give the PS3 a push and I feel you but be real. The PS3 has a lot to offer and you get it standard but you have to pay a steeper cost. The 360 offers what you need with the option to upgrade.

Like my pervious post I’ve had my 360 for a year and it cost me as much as it would to just start off with the PS3. I really do not see much value there.

I actually have a question.
I always thought that Blu-Ray discs are needed due to HD content (Cut scenes, entire levels made in HD (I think), etc).
So how does a 360 manage to fit it a HD game onto a DVD-9 ? Compression ? If so, then wont the unzipped material be of significantly less quality ?
Do not flame me-I am merely interested.

I got my 360 on release day.
Premium 360 with remote control unit. $399
2nd wireless controller and headset. $70
Nyko battery charger and two batteries.$30
14 months of Xbox Live. $39
Total. $538
I don't need wireless, my house is fully ethernet wired; I use wireless only for laptops.
I don't need the HD drive; it wont play games on the 360 anyway, and when the format war settles out, I'll buy the winning standalone unit.
I bought 1 year of live service at Walmart for $39, I got one month free with the XBox package, and another month free with one of the games I bought (I think it was Blazing Angels).
So what did I get for the $39 dollars more than the PS3 "core"? Not much, just a full year of next-gen gaming, while Sony fans sit around on their thumbs, wishing and hoping, and whistling "Dixie".

Oh, and incidentally, after a year, I currently have 8 gigs free on the HDD.

when comparing prices like these when all things that ar enot even FINAL. Plz..as far as the PS3 being FREE online I'll believe it when I see it. So right now your comparisons on the prices of the PS3 are still kinda skewed. Maybe after the PS3 is about and we get the low-down on certain things.(online play + game developers Monthly charges + the Games)

As for the Xbox 360 things are somewhat Final as far as pricing. As you can see people are able to get deals and bargins through different stores and online. Plus Bundles will also play an important role this holiday season. I got me a bundle for $479, that came with PG3 + extra wireless conroller with USB charger. I have a no hassle return Policy so I didn't need a warranty with it.

As for XBOX 360- Variable Prices this Holiday season.(Bundles + Rebates + Discounts + Cheaper Sofware after a year.)

As for the PS3 - (Bundles = more than $600 price)

(Developers charge for Online gaming+ Multiple games)

(" I pity the Fool" without a 2 yr Warranty on new technology"$60-$100)

(Gaming Software at least $60+ for every game)

(If your lucky to own a 1080p set, the price of movies are not cheap $20+)

This might be more accurate taken from Dusk's Post, but just to get the average gamer started. Excluding movie buffs, Gamers that just want to play Videogames.

360: $400
Extra wireless controller: $50
Play and charge kit: $20
2 "new" games ($60 ea.): $120
Live: $50
Store warranty: $60+(variable)

Total: $700

PS3: $600
-Extra wireless controller: $50
-Play and charge: $20
-2 games ($70 ea.): $140 -or- 2 games ($80 ea.): $160
-Store warranty: $60+(variable)
-Cables: $30
-Develpoers online Charge(Variable + Multiple games)

Total: $880 Without Live gaming charges.

Now that's close to a Grand just to get started. As to the Hardcore/Techie you don't have to worry as you will do anything to get your hands on a new machine. For granpa + grandma and hardworking Moms and Dads thats alot to swallow.

Unfortunately now if I want to upgrade it will cost me more than a PS3 and it will have ZERO gaming functionality.. I like my 360, but that aspect still irritates me to know what could have been better and should have been and simply wasn't only because MS cared about beating Sony to the market.

Kawikat-
But isnt that only a difference of $180 ?
Plus IF online really is free, then after 3-4 years the 360 will have actually come out more expensive.
IF

Imagine paying $10-$15 bucks for each game you want to be able to play online per developer?

Imagine giving your credit card info to different developers hundreds of times?

Imagine having Every developer you choose to play thier game online share your CC info?

If you've played PC games online then you know the challenges every developer can bring to make the online experience flawless.

As I said before with the PS3 having Blue-ray in myeyes doesn't make it a better system. cause as a gamer I don't need it. Unless you force yourself into thinking you do when you don't own a HDTV. All I ever needed was good games or great games I should say.

I will get a stand-alone player to which ever is more popular, better quality and better bargain. Sorry blue-ray but thats not you. As far as upgrading it the 360 gives you what you need out the box.

-Since we all don't need HD-DVD then you won't have to buy it.
-Since we all don't have Broadband then you couldn't careless for Wifi.
-since we all don't have HDTV's who cares about 1080p.

Now something that I think we all can agree on is we will have one TV and one console, and to play games is all most of us want. Great Games.

Except that the extra price per PS3 game will easily offset the price of LIVE. Depending on how many games you buy, the extra $10-$20 per game will really add up. The PS3 will be more expensive for gaming no matter how you look at it. However, if Bluray takes off and you really want WiFi, then the PS3 is a good deal. It's only a good deal in that scenario. There are gamers that fit in that scenario, but for all others (ie. the majority), it's a better deal to get the 360. It's also better to get the 360 if you want to wait and see which media format wins, I'm sure MS will have a Bluray add-on if HD-DVD fails miserably. Unfortunately for Bluray, the HD-DVD players so far have a better picture for half the cost.

As to your previous question. You don't need one of the new media formats for HD games. It's only for movies. DVDs only output movies in 480. The two new movie formats output as high as 1080p. HD games output the same on any format. The bluray disc does have more storage capacity than a DVD9. In theory, games can be bigger on the new movie formats as opposed to DVD9. HD games can be stored on all formats, however, including DVD9. Currently, games fill up about half of a DVD9. Therefore it will be awhile (years) until a larger format is needed.

Insomniac, a company who works only for Sony, has stated that their new game, Resistance, will be 20 gig. This wouldn't fit on a DVD9, but would on Bluray. There is a lot of deception in this claim, however. Insomniac claims that levels are compressed, yet they still use 20 gig. Keep in mind all other games use, on average, 5-6 gig of compressed data. However, Insomniac says it was ship Resistance with Audio and text for all regions/languages of the available world markets on one disc. This will use more space, but doesn't mean the game is better. Also, they coded the game to stream levels. Streaming uses repetition of code, ie more space. Finally, they also claim to have a lot of FMV in the game, this takes up a lot of space but doesn't increase gameplay. Point is, other games coming out, like GoW, Mass Effect, Rainbow 6: Vegas, etc. actually look better than Resistance but fit on one DVD9. Just because you code a game differently and add extraneous crap that doesn't do anything for gameplay (like 'making of videos', FMV, CGI cutscenes, etc) doesn't mean it's better because it's on Bluray. Sony and its affiliates will have you believe this, though, because it rationalizes the extra cost for the PS3 if you are not into movies. The ONLY reason for Bluray being packaged with the PS3 is to promote Sony's attempt at dominating the movie hard format business.

Therefore, the ONLY reason the PS3 is a good financial deal for consumers is if they want to support Bluray for movies and want WiFi. If they just want to play games without caring about HD movies or WiFi, the 360 is a better deal financially. Both systems will have their share of great games, only the PS3 versions will be more expensive and the PS3 online service is still up in the air.

Do you have a computer with wireless, or a laptop with wireless. Then your 360 can be wireless. plug it in the ethernet port. and bridge the wireless connection with the 360 and your 360 will be on-line in seconds. $100.00 dollars saved. Buy wired controllers. Dl the 360 media link on your computer and save games and files on your cpu. more money saved. <-Lets see ps3 pull that off.

PS3 is definitely the cheaper and better option. Spending $50 annually for Xbox Live Gold adds up to $250, assuming the console lasts for 5 years. And if a 360 owner wants to watch hi-def movies they have to spend yet another $200~300 for that option.

I guess it's nice having 'choice', but damn it's frickin expensive. I kind of feel bad for 360 owners who someday may want to play hi-def movies on their system, considering how much it'll cost. And it only supports HD-DVD, which is a bit odd considering that 80% of the movie industry supports Blu-ray, not HD-DVD. Bit of an odd choice by Microsoft. O well, maybe they'll have an add-on Blu-ray player if the format ends up dominating.

Either way PS3 owners have a free option of playing hi-def movies and using online multiplayer without any additional fees, which is pretty awesome.

Here's two different deals, you choose the best one.

PS3 Package - $719.97
includes the premium console and the following games:
Resistance: Fall of Man
Untold Legends

Xbox 360 Package - $711.57
includes the premium console and the following games:
NHL 2K6
NBA Live 06
College Hoops 2K6
Madden NFL 06
Ridge Racer 6
NBA 2K6
Kameo
Dynasty Warriors 5: Empires
Perfect Dark Zero
Project Gotham Racing 3
Peter Jackson's King Kong
The Outfit
Full Auto
Lara Croft Tomb Raider: Legend
Rockstar Games Presents Table Tennis
Condemned: Criminal Origins
Far Cry Predator Instincts

Which is the deal?

btw
Xbox 360 Premium System - 349.99 at compusa
NHL 2K6 - 13.99 at gamefly
NBA Live 06 - 14.98 at compusa
College Hoops 2K6 - 14.99 at gamefly
Madden NFL 06 - 14.99 at gamefly
Ridge Racer 6 - 17.99 at ebgames
NBA 2K6 - 19.98 at compusa
Kameo - 19.98 at compusa
Dynasty Warriors 5: Empires - 19.98 at compusa
Perfect Dark Zero - 19.98 at compusa
Project Gotham Racing 3 - 19.99 at circuit city
Peter Jackson's King Kong - 22.99 at gamefly
The Outfit - 24.95 at overstock
Full Auto - 24.95 at overstock
Lara Croft Tomb Raider: Legend - 24.99 at best buy
Rockstar Games Presents Table Tennis - 26.95 at overstock
Condemned: Criminal Origins - 29.95 at overstock
Far Cry Predator Instincts - 29.95 at overstock

Why would you feel sorry for 360 owners buying a HD-DVD player? I'm sure prices will drop just as Stand-alone players always do. Who knows the HD-DVD player might be $150 next year. Even the Xbox 360 and other accessories.Everything will be cheaper for th eXbox 360 because they can afford to when its a year and 1/2 later.

I can't say the same for a PS3 price drop.

Another thing if you want to watch HD MOVIES then I would assume that you have a HDTV.

If I'm going to assume that you have a HDTV then I would assume you wouldn't complain about a $200 HD-DVD player when your TV cost 3 times as much.

Since gamers come from all backrounds and economic situations and most don't even own HDtv; I would assume that you probally don't really need the HD-DVD player even if you think you do, when you have a library of 200+ movies on regular DVD with a nice progessive Scan Player.

HD-DvD nonsense can wait seriously.

"but it's so hollow that anyone can see right through it. "

Ironically that sounds like your forshadowing sony's strategy from day one up to today.

Haha Hey, you really can't dispute Sony's word of a "FREE" online service, after all the promises they have made up to now.

Anyhow if you believe thats the direction they are taking then thats fine. For the meantime all is free on sony's side while you pay for a 360 service.

Either way sony doesn't have much detail about thier sketchy online service but some people swear to it they know all the details. After all you can only go by what sony has told us gamers from the start. What a good job sony has done with every promise.

I believe that's the model they will go with regardless. As developing games get smroe expensive they will demand more money from thier online installment base.

Don't worry there will be another " I told you so" when the time comes around.

till nov..or march for some

not to mention tons of extra content like a $2.50 horse that was supposedly already on the discs ;0..

You can say all you want about the Sony online service being free. A rumour once emerged that said it was actually like xbox live, where you can't play online unless you pay. The rumour was dismissed by Sony quickly. Sound familiar? Yeah Sony do that to every rumour that turns out to be true.
The only alternative is leaving it to the developers to host their own free servers. I think all I need to say is "PS2 online service" and you'll see why this is no better.

Xbox live diamond card- free to all users of xbox live- this program gives you far more than enough discounts to make up for the yearly $50 payment for xbox live over and over- NOT ONLY DOES THIS MAKE XBOX LIVE FREE, BUT MAKES THE SERVICE SAVE YOU $$$! For example: offers such as $20 off of theme park visits, rent 1 rent another free at movie gallery, save 10% on any target.com purchase (u can save $$$ on additional games and accessories)…the list goes on forever!

hundreds of vendors are participating. inevitably u will b a customer to some of them, why not save money while you're at it? this diamod card plan has already saved me 7$ on oblivion, and will definately be saving me a lotta money on games that i was ALREADY planning on getting in the first place (ex. interstellar marines, rainbow six, gears of war, assassins creed, etc.) U just use it on stuff u already wanted in the first place. thats not spending money to save money. thats just taking advantage of an offer that saves u money on stuff u actually want and were already planning to get in the first place and reuse that 50$ yearly payment (now 35$).

Is forcing Blu Ray on everyone is just plain retarded but for those who think that Microfony is giving you an option to buy the HD DVD sepratley is even more retarded then the next guy?!,I'mean come on atleast Sony didn't give you a choice to get an add on Blu Ray unlike Microfony is doing (Uh!Duh!) any idiot!

would know that buy now thats what makes the PS3 so revolutionary cause new disc and more capacity just think if THQ or Voliton or which ever of the 2 game companie's that made Saints Row could make Saints Row 2 and made it for the PS3 only this time they can put as much details and more vehicles like a motorcycle or even steal a plane and even put a tank in the game unlike the first one cause it didn't have that much disc space and plus add on animals like dogs or cats on the streets or raccoons for that matter so thats why Sony did the right thing to put in Blu Ray for the PS3 just in case a game designer change's his mind about the capacity of Blu Ray and can go wild with his imaginations in what game he makes.

Gamer in here your just an Asshole! that can't seem to see that you ass face! prick!.

Using your head you think that Sony wont make the online service free are you that much of a commi? saying that Sony is not going to let the gamers have free online service? when it launche's in November 17 when the PS3 comes out wow I think you need your head examined.

Now that Jim Ryan is gone just need to remove Herman Hulst from his position! And maybe give Shuhei the position he deserved.

This gen hasn't been the best for games, last gen consoles are still out there and now there's been talk of the PS6 and Xbox Two for a year or so. Many games this gen will be ported to next gen and the cycle will continue. The re-release of the Neo Geo AES+, games on cartridge for £70 ($95), gaming is going back in time. Gaming has gone pricing mad with the high cost of games, consoles and controllers. The men and women at the top are clueless.

It’s always interesting to hear behind-the-scenes stories like this, especially involving veterans like Shuhei Yoshida and leadership figures like Jim Ryan. That said, there are usually multiple sides to decisions at that level. It could be less about not “listening” and more about differences in long-term vision for PlayStation. Yoshida played a huge role in shaping the brand, so whatever the reason, his impact is undeniable.

If true, and I'm inclined to believe it is, it goes to show that Sony lost their way when they became more western/didn't respect the PlayStation origin story. Andrew House and Jack Tretton did great work, but they also didn't try to fundamentally change the PlayStation DNA. Ryan oversaw the death of Japan Studio and a live service direction.

I already figured this, good lord imagine if Shuhei took over instead, would've been a platinum era 😩

I miss the first three generations of PlayStation. The way they turned PS3 around, we knew they meant business. We were all worried for a bit there around launch. Eventually from 2008 they started shifting slowly. But since Yoshida was fired, it's never been the same. Still enjoy my PS5 daily. I got a backlog dating back to PS2 lol So I'm fine but new games aren't as appealing anymore.

It seems like we were thrown on to the worst timeline possible where everything is too expensive and the wrong people were put in positions that makes the world a shitty place. We could have had Shu as the head of PS but we got the shitty alternative. Same goes for everyone in power around the world. Doesn’t matter the company or country the majority of us got the shitty picks and the world is declining like never before. I do think PS can come out of this because of their studios, talent and IP but they need someone more in touch with gamers leading things like Shu was. They’re still the best place for console gaming imo but it could be much better than it is especially without the massive live service failures. The rest of the world I have a lot less hope for right now. Hopefully the pendulum swings back towards the good ole days but I’m preparing for the worst.

There goes illuminati distraction story

So now there's certifiable proof that Ryan was in fact "fired", as opposed to when it was first announced that he "retired", in order to save face.

There's another guy who recently "retired" as CEO of another large gaming company, after doing a dismantling job as lead for well over a decade.

seems legit, the business man, fires the one who has ideas to move the business forward.

Jim Ryan is the reason why we are entering year 6 since the PS5 launch and many of us don't feel like the PS5 has gotten started as yet.

I hope going forward, we will see a return to form.