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John Carmack’s next-gen console wish list

John Carmack has revealed what he wants to see hardware-wise in the next generation of consoles from Sony and Microsoft.

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beefjack.com
Why o why5387d ago (Edited 5387d ago )

It look like a pc, run like a pc...basically be a pc

still a legend though

EDIT

Definitely listen to him but there others out there that should be heard also. If we totally listened to pc guys we'd have very pc-like consoles, even more so than we do now. I still want consoles to be consoles, im not sure these guys primarily think about the costs. These guys definitely know about the innards though

Gazondaily5387d ago (Edited 5387d ago )

I would listen to this guy very carefully. He is one of the industry veterans and someone definitely gifted when it comes to programming. He knows what he is on about.

Abriael5387d ago

Easy to make "wish lists" when you don't have to pay while shopping for parts :D

jaosobno5387d ago

Honestly, I'm sick of Carmack. The guy made Doom 3 in 2004 (which was a generic shooter), and after 7 years of nothing, brings us Rage. The game looks interesting, but is hardly genre changing or revolutionary in any way.

I respect the man's intelligence, but he stopped being an authority in the field of gaming long time ago.

LightofDarkness5387d ago

JC doesn't design games, he designs engines. Creative do the rest. He is still EXTREMELY relevant when it comes to engines.

bumnut5387d ago

@jaosobno

Carmack invented FPS games, the gaming industry would not be what it is today without him.

LoVeRSaMa5387d ago

I agree with jaosobno tbh.

Rage wants very good, yet he acts like a God, he should be making better games imo (instead of trying to copy COD)

Gazondaily5387d ago

@LoverSama

Rage wasn't very good? Have you even played it?

How does someone like you get so many bubbles? Its a microcosm of the userbase on this site I think?

"he should be making better games imo (instead of trying to copy COD)"

Honestly....I reiterate, how do you have more than one bubble? You have no clue what you're on about. Copying COD? How? By making a brand new engine? Is it the fact that Rage runs at 60fps that makes you think it is a COD-clone?

Does COD have vehicular battles?

/facepalm x 9000

AKS5386d ago

How much of those thoughts about his wish list pertained to the cost of research and development of these things? One must actually pay this enormous sum to put together a console.

BubbleSniper5386d ago

tired of Carmack? then move the fuck along.

bumnut5386d ago

"he should be making better games imo (instead of trying to copy COD)"

Thats hilarious, there would be no COD if there was no Carmack.

Im guessing the people saying they are sick of him are young and do not know what he has done for the industry.

topekomsi5386d ago

@LoVeRSaMa

First off wouldn't Cod be copying him, being that he INVENTED the fps, and i may be mistaken but isn't the CoD engine based on id tech 3?

Ch1d0r15386d ago

I didn't really care about JC till i saw the quake engine tree, that will show you how all these dick heads around here how relevant he is.

+ Show (8) more repliesLast reply 5386d ago
WANNAGETHIGH5387d ago

Dont worry carmack Sony will show u how is done again next gen.

Iamback5387d ago

Sony?
Cell was a disaster bro
Just ask 3rd party. Cell is the reason why 360 won and took such a huge market share from Sony.

Isis065387d ago (Edited 5387d ago )

That's exactly why they will step up there game.

death2smoochie5387d ago

Sony did not show anyone anything but developer headaches. The PS3 was powerful but Sony's developer tools and hardware design choice was not exactly the wisest choice.
Now take a look at the Vita and that is how Sony should have built the PS3: Developer friendly and still powerful

gamingdroid5386d ago (Edited 5386d ago )

PS3's individual parts are good, not necessarily together in that design.

That is why the difference in processing power is huge, yet the actual practical result is negligible while the price gap initially was humongous between the Xbox 360 and PS3.

Hardware these days is increasingly a software optimization problem, a far cry from previous generations.

Bolts5386d ago

Well they certainly show him how it's NOT done this gen.

_Aarix_5382d ago

Which there was a "facepalm" button or a "dumbass" one

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Sashamaz5387d ago Show
Machioto5387d ago

@Death Sony dev tools were still maturing that's why it was problematic for some dev because they created thier own architetcure.

@iambck Yeah,the cell had problems but that was the early days now some people are finding a use for it like dice,valve,who had a similar stance as carmack, those guy that did "saboteur" tried mlaa anti aliasing technique,I think his complaint is that thier is only one ppe in the ps3 so you have take advantage of the spu,maybe if ps4 had 3-4 cells and you could bypass the spu and use just the ppe and abetter gpu everything should be fine.

Ju5387d ago

There are a couple of problems with the CELL compared to modern ways of writing engines.

Today, a lot is pushed onto the GPU using shaders (or compute targets, e.g. OpenCL for physics or even AI).

Now, this is not so bad for the CELL. SPUs can manage a lot of that. However, a problem there is you have to shovel data from VRAM to sysram and back again, mostly setting up complicated DMA lists, schedule that properly, etc.

The SPUs have some advantages over pure shaders (even in the latest generation) that they can be simply setup and programmed in C++. Much more elegant than shaders and easier to program for - plus flexible enough to use ASM to optimize if needed. But, it is just not easy to, e.g. fetch a texture from VRAM, apply a filter and notify the GPU. You'd have to write some complicated mem transfer mechanism, which should be transparent, fast and in sync with the GPU. Not an easy task - possible, see Dice's deferred implementation (or other exclusive titles).

Well, and the other thing is, splitting parts of your code now does not only require to have portions in scalar code (which runs on the CPU) and shader code, now you have a 3rd component which runs on SPU. Ideally, you would simply have one compile target; one execution unit (more like a CPU executing int,fp and sse/vmx/neon instructions, now extended with shaders, too. Shaders can't really be merged into the CPU (just yet), but eventually everything will just be a "compute target" and your compiler will generate code for the best suited execution unit (in that case, SPUs could be "virtualized").

Well, lately, it looks like devs get a hang of using CPU, SPUs and shaders on the PS3. But at the same time, this is a little too late. Modern CPU/GPU combos outperform the CELL by far today.

I would rather say, its all in the tools. Machines are fast enough now (soon), everything could become a virtual platform. Going down to the metal will always be faster, though. And sometimes a convenient programming model (which Carmack - like any other coder - likes so much) is often not the highest performing one.

MagicAccent5386d ago

@jaosobno
You know nothing.

Carmack "invented" the FPS as we know it today. So sit the hell down, listen and learn.

Godmars2905386d ago

Might be a legend but that doesn't make him any less annoying as far as I'm concerned.

He hasn't done jack this generation for consoles but complain about them.

kaveti66165386d ago (Edited 5386d ago )

The code he wrote and the techniques he invented permeates through many engines.

What he did for this gen of consoles he did years ago.

He's always ahead.

TheDivine5386d ago

I dont find him annoying at all, maybe these dumb articles twisting something he said but not him. I watched a 45 min interview of him and it felt like 5 minutes because he's so knowledgable and passionate about everything. The guy interviewing hi would ask something and get a 10 min answer lol. He kept trying to speed him up but couldnt get a word in because he just talks and talks. Carmack's the shi*. His last gen engines still power some of the top games this gen.

Bolts5386d ago

Oh he only created the entire FPS universe as we know it. Everytime you play online, everytime you capture the flag, everytime you log into Steam, everytime you play CoD. Hell, everytime you play a FPS with textures. All came from Carmack's Quake.

Yeah let's not listen to him because he hasn't done anything "this gen".

Godmars2905386d ago

How about not listening to him because you're not that much of a FPS - or first person perspective fan - in general. Really don't like see where programmers like Carmack, in my opinion, are needlessly pushing the industry. Are making other generas of gaming harder to make while also turning the one they're focused on less rewarding.

I mean there is a point that I will just stop gaming if this keeps up.

madpuppy5386d ago

it's funny, you guys will hang on everything that foul mouthed Jaffe says but, when a polite developer that has actually effected the industry profoundly answers questions you bad talk him...pathetic.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 5386d ago
InNomeDiDio5386d ago

To all the Guys that think Carmack doesn't know what he's talking about ... do you Guys really know how amazing the Megatexture-Technology of ID-Tech5 is?
I doubt that. On a decent PC Rage will be a Beast and will of course set new standards according to whole environment Texturing.

pain777pas5386d ago

No one can dispute his track record, influence and genius. No doubt about it. He is relevant pioneer like Miyamoto, Will Wright, Sid Meyer, Molyneux and Kojima. A company would not be wise to not listen to his suggestions because that is all they are for better or worse. Having restrictions cause innovation too though. We have to remember when limited hardware is pushed like GOW on PS2, Star fox on SNES or Virtua Racing on the Genesis that is when we can see the benefits to certain hardware decisions. We need constraint sometimes. Some interchangeable parts like ram and HD would be nice though in future consoles.

subtenko5386d ago

Wish list? Can we get an earthquake defensive mechanism on the ps4? It can be an optional add-on to stabilise the area around the ps4. Shouldnt cost no more than $9,938,395,384 and hey look on the bright side...you know the ps4 will actually be able to float then :D

Yea, who else survived the earthquake today? (eastcoast) x)

+ Show (6) more repliesLast reply 5382d ago
iamnsuperman5387d ago

This is the problem with wish lists. We can wish for the impossible but when it comes down to it the manufacturers have to look what is cost effective. I am interested in where they go or if the next gen will truly be revolutionary or are we going to wait another generation before major changes happen

Off topic but related to the article: Why is PS3 and Intel in bold

Voxelman5387d ago

His "wish list" is pretty reasonable TBH he doesn't even ask for anything specific except a 64-bit universally addressable memory architecture.

xX_Altair_Xx5387d ago

I was thinking the same thing. I remember saying this in another article: PC gamers' main criticism of consoles is that they're not PCs.

Also I'd like to see this guy design a console and see if he still keep it within mass market price. I'm pretty sure Sony/MS/Nintendo would know more than him in this area.

testerg355386d ago

Well Sony did release at $600... Not sure how within mass market price that is.

xX_Altair_Xx5386d ago

^

That should tell you just how hard it is to design a powerful console and keep it within a reasonable price.

Ju5387d ago (Edited 5387d ago )

I wouldn't think so. He (briefly) mentioned Larrabee and "many cores". That is so not-PC. All in all, he wants a fusion of GPU and CPU with plenty of parallel horsepower.

That would sure be a nice platform, but Larrabee is dead, and he doesn't want the CELL either. The only other architecture going into this direction is AMD's Fusion - but not sure how far they are integrating CPU/GPU (e.g. stream processors and scalar ALUs in one chip, tightly interconnected/integrated). Nobody else is working on anything like it. A CELL could possibly made, which merges SPUs with stream processors (and make them super SPUs) and/or additional fixed HW units for fast TL operations and some more scalar cores - and a unified memory controller - which in return would mean its no CELL any more. Really, these are the only two who could deliver something like that.

So, I would think, the next gen will still be a CPU/GPU combo.

BTW: Vita breaks his unified memory wishes right there. Again has sys/vram separate 512/128MB). It is a challenge to have a unified system and max out the bandwidth at minimal costs.

bozebo5386d ago

Another possibility is sli or crossfire of 2 custom mid-range chips. The problem with high-end graphics chips in relation to the design of next gen consoles is their heat output - which means the cases need better airflow, harming the process of making the devices compact for cost effectiveness and product appeal.

64bit shared address space is very likely to be the given standard without any problems. As far as guantity goes, 2GB of high bandwidth GDDR5 or similar memory would suite them very well. Some games need a lot of ram simply through design, like Mount and Blade or minecraft. Imagine what dynasty warriors will be like with 2GB of RAM and next-gen cpu speed - if they don't just make exactly the same game again :P

ThanatosDMC5386d ago

Pretty much a PC. Who doesn't have multiple cores/threads CPU nowadays?

Ju5386d ago (Edited 5386d ago )

I think people do not understand what a "64bit unified memory" means. He wants the same addresses mapped between CPU and GPU.

Why? Because you can use the CPU to read e.g. vertex or pixel (or any other) data (z-buffer, motion data, etc), modify what you want, and hand it over to the GPU without initiating a memory transfer. Perfect for a all kind of things; mostly what we do today with deferred renderers.

No system does this today. No PC and no console. SLI is way to far away - which needs to merge memory banks across PCIe, for example (or how ever they do that). This is a complete new architecture.

bozebo5386d ago (Edited 5386d ago )

The virtual address space is unified in PCs. Which is why you get way less than 4GB under 32 bit because it needs to map the VRAM under the same address space.

He said "virtual address space".

Next gen consoles probably won't be needing to do much graphical workload on the CPU anyway, the CPUs will probably only get slightly more powerful while the GPU should be 5 or 6 times as powerful as the current gen.

Deferred rendering was a good solution for the performance balance on current consoles (great with the 360's eDRAM) but it wont be something that is done too much in the future.

SLI/Xfire stores a duplicate copy of the same memory, they can probably avoid needing to do that if they design custom hardware (which tends to be done for consoles). I can't see any other viable way of consoles supporting true next-gen graphics without burning up like happened this gen... one powerful chip would mean far too much localised heat. Unless ATI have secret technology again that they will share with MS.

NewVegasTroop5386d ago

that would brake the meaning of "consoles"

cliffbo5386d ago

@bozebo

no he wants an Intel based console with a ms OS with direct x which is easy to program.lol

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 5386d ago
Malice-Flare5387d ago

multi-core CPU with GPU...
unified 64-bit memory space...
lots of bus bandwidth...

i think Sony and MS can design that. it's just the additional features that each may offer will be the deciding factors for the cost of materials...

EverydayGuy5387d ago

I think Sony will keep the Cell in the PS4. They already bought the manufacturing plant from IBM, and they invested a couple billion dollars on it. The Developers are probably use to it by now.

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70°

Microsoft Gaming Revenue Drops 7% Year-on-Year, Content and Services Down 5%, Xbox Hardware Down 33%

Microsoft announced its financial results for Q3 of fiscal year 2026, including an update on its gaming Xbox business and more.

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simulationdaily.com
Jin_Sakai23d ago (Edited 23d ago )

Not looking good. Hopefully Asha Sharma is able to turn Phil’s disaster around.

dveio23d ago

To me it's still quite remarkable how they can cash-in 5.3bn in revenue in a single quarter, since their hardware is basically dead.

Jingsing23d ago

The stock mark is what makes Microsoft remarkable, They have convinced every institutional and retail investor to just keep piling money into them. Like many big tech giants they are just a big growing pyramid scheme. As long as people keep dropping money into ETF's that cover the market Microsoft will always be liquid. At the same time it is completely stifling innovation and competition. People need to start being more discreet in how they invest their money as it's killing the system.

Tanktopmaster9223d ago

Once they re-evaluate exclusive all will be fine….

S2Killinit23d ago

Riiiiight because people will just flock back to them for one or two games per year.

Jingsing23d ago

15+ years of bad performance is what they call irreparable in business. It is time for them to sell off the assets and get out of entertainment.

Tanktopmaster9222d ago

These declines are on the back of extra revenue received from releasing games like Forza horizon 5 on PlayStation. So I’m being sarcastic here when I said they should go back to exclusives. Killing off a revenue stream from Ps5 sales will only make things worse

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80°

(For Southeast Asia) New Price Changes for PS5, PS5 Pro, and PlayStation Portal remote player

For Southeast Asia, new price changes.

Prices effective starting May 1st, 2026.

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blog.playstation.com
26d ago Replies(1)
BeHunted25d ago

Looks like PlayStation took a hit with Marathon and is now quietly adjusting prices worldwide to recover the losses

andy8525d ago

Lets be honest raising prices doesn't do that when no one's buying it. I imagine the profit it greater selling 10 times more at a lower price

Pergele25d ago

Whatever you say buddy, let's all wear the tinfoil hats.

IceKoldKilla25d ago (Edited 25d ago )

LMFAO Your comment alone says a lot more about you than anything else. When has one game not selling 10 million copies made a company raise the prices of their console? Then Xbox would be costing $5000 by now lol. You remind of the crazy drug addicts on the street rambling on about conspiracies. xD You sure you don't need a hug, buddy?

ChunkyMonk24d ago

One game that Sony payed $200 million for. lol
Also, you sure were quick to get triggered. Maybe your the one who needs a hug?

Eonjay24d ago

If nothing else, we should be united against the real issue here. AI and unnecessary tariffs that are effecting all gamers.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 24d ago
Athlon10125d ago (Edited 25d ago )

The price increases are due to the RAM demand associated with AI and the US-Iran war. You can look to any business news website and local news to see that. Heck, even the 2026 Asus Zenbook Duo I've been eyeing has faced delays and has had a price increase of $400; that laptop has two specs. Asus is doing a staggered release with per-orders for the lower spec now and shipping in May and pre-orders for the higher spec that I'm eyeing starting in June. Basically, all computer manufactures are affected. It'll most likely start affecting smart phones too if it hasn't already. I can't remember the last time any major console maker (Nintendo, Sony, Sega, etc) increased the price of their console mid cycle outside of Microsoft just to make more profit.

S2Killinit24d ago

Its not the war. Its the RAM issue.

jznrpg24d ago

War is causing gas prices to rise. Transport of everything requires gas so the prices of those items go up as well. So it does have an impact

Athlon10124d ago (Edited 24d ago )

The blockage of the Straight of Hormuz due to the US-Iran war has affected raw components used in semi-conductor manufacturing such as bromine, aluminum, and helium. Iran had attacked the liquified natural gas (LNG) plant in Qatar which is a large producer (1/3 globally) of helium which is used in semiconductor etching. So it's the both the war and the RAM crises.

badz14925d ago

Oh no...should I get the Pro now before the price increase?

70°

Xbox boss: Memory crisis could impact next-gen hardware pricing

Xbox boss Asha Sharma has discussed how component shortages will impact the company's plans for Project Helix.

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gamedeveloper.com
Eonjay24d ago

When does this end? Its killing everyone. Consoles and PC. And for what? AI? The benefits of AI are completely outweighed by the negatives. And the government should have never allowed one company to buy up all the RAM.

Lexreborn225d ago

This kind of proves this is an after thought product, most products like this are in r&d 5 years before they start mass producing. So they typically have the cost of components and things worked out long before assembly starts.

This is an assumption still, but I wouldn’t be surprised if project helix is similar to Scalebound,perfect dark and sod3. They had an idea but no actual execution other than concept stage. Being impacted by the ram shortage likely would also put this device 3-4 years out.

I’m not even sure MS has that endurance with Xbox yet

Fishy Fingers25d ago (Edited 25d ago )

I mean.... what?

We're at a point that Samsung wont even provide their own phone department ram because they can sell it at higher prices to 3rd parties (AI). Its more profitable to sell the ram than make their own devices with it.

You think because R&D starts 5 years ago the 3rd party component manufacturers will honour that price? They'll sell it to whomever is paying the most today, not some gentlemens agreement they made years ago. AI farms will buy more volume at higher prices than any console manufacturer will. It'll be the same for Playstation.

Lexreborn224d ago

Contractual agreements are not the same as “gentlemen” agreements. If you think that they work with their distributors a month before production then their entire business model is trash. They work with companies like nvidia constantly for building the graphics cards they need. They work with companies that build motherboards years in advance. This is what proper business planning does.

They are not buying components on a whim like a consumer. So again, considering the ram isn’t a singular module and is integrated into the motherboard I highly doubt they wouldn’t have a final schematic that they are supposed to be building around.

If they are delaying production another 3 years then it’s obvious again this is an after though project and is just trying to be responsive to their bad execution they had the last 14 years.

It also isn’t far fetched to use their failure to produce first party titles the last 7 years including the highly anticipated games I mentioned all being cancelled. That they would continue to you know… lie

Sitdown25d ago

You don't really know how this works huh?

Profchaos25d ago (Edited 25d ago )

Helix is going to be stupidly expensive

Instead of leaning into smarter upscaling techniques they're brute forcing hardware that will cost them dearly and it remains to be seen if it's genuinely going to provide a meaningful differential

I know in the oc.doace people like to brag about not using frame gen or dlss to get to high on a game but for the majority of players they happily use those technologies without a second thought

That's going to be ps6 vs Helix

Eonjay24d ago

Yeah with FSR 5 they should be able to offer a much cheaper version of Helix.

Eonjay24d ago

While this does seem to be the case, I am encouraged by the statement from Microsoft about wanting to provide affordable options. If this means a Series S style Helix, at least there will be something affordable being offered.

XBManiac24d ago

Series S is what has killed Xbox Series so... Will they dare?

blacktiger25d ago

It's called systematic inflationary. Yes we get it Microsoft, keep raising in the name ofall kinds of stuffs

pwnmaster300025d ago

Honestly if there was thing I learned from this generation is that new consoles arnt day one anymore.
I can wait 1-3 years.

DarXyde25d ago

Another important lesson from this generation: while Nintendo showed us that prices don't necessarily need to ever drop, we've now learned that waiting 1-3 years does carry some risk that prices increase. This generation is just bizarre in all the wrong ways.

LucasRuinedChildhood25d ago (Edited 25d ago )

The factors are largely external. Covid and Russia-Ukraine war causing inflation led to the first price increase in 2022.

Then we get Trump's tariffs increasing hardware prices, AI boom causing a RAM crisis, war on Iran causing a worldwide fuel crisis which impacts the cost of everything.

Gaming doesn't exist in a vacuum. The last few years have been a shitshow and lot of it was definitely avoidable.

DarXyde24d ago

LucasRuinedChildhood,

For sure. No disagreement on the external factors doing a lot of this. Where I have to gently push back however is on two fronts:

1. The pandemic definitely caused some issues: asynchronous development was a big issue and really complicated timelines and affected game quality. At the same time, when it comes to price hikes, it's really difficult to know what was genuine necessity and what was taking consumers for a ride. The pandemic brought about "stag-flation" which was increasing prices and stagnant wages, which was a problem caused by supply chain constraints. There was also "Greed-flation", where companies that were slightly affected or had no issues took advantage of the situation and squeezed everyone citing supply chain issues when there were none.

2. It's definitely true that the tariffs, AI boom, and RAM crisis were all things enabled by tech broligarchs throwing money at this caricature of a world leader, one of them being Satya Nadella. I don't think Sony and Nintendo have contributed much to this problem if at all, but Microsoft's Nadella I feel was instrumental in causing every one of those issues. Microsoft as a company contributed to both candidates (though they gave Harris 4x as much if I recall), but Nadella was all in on letting AI run wild. He paid for unregulated AI, and got a war that's not a war (even though Trump called it that at least five times on television) that screwed up helium access. So for me, I feel that one of the players in the gaming industry is a key architect of these issues, and for that reason I struggle a bit to think of it as "external".

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