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Tech Focus: MLAA heads for 360 and PC

The PS3 may lose one of its graphical advantages over the Xbox 360, with a team working on implementing a version of Sony’s MLAA anti-aliasing technique seen in such games as God of War 3 and Killzone 3 on Microsoft’s console – and they claim that they’ve “raised the quality bar considerably” over other versions.

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gamesindustry.biz
Convas5448d ago

Excellent news! Hopefully, we start hearing about more titles that take advantage of these technique.

I hear that Battlefield 3 for Xbox 360 will be using FXAA. Interesting stuff indeed!

SillySundae5448d ago ShowReplies(12)
NewMonday5448d ago (Edited 5448d ago )

would like to see it, how much resource dose it take on the 360, how much would be left?

gamingdroid5448d ago (Edited 5448d ago )

They indicated a 2.47ms time compared to Sony's 3-4 ms (on five SPUs) which should give you an indication of resources needed, but more specific information would be nice.

I also would like to see why this is an issue. It's a freaken jagged line, that is already smoothed out as is. Can you even tell the difference?

marison5448d ago

They could and should use the Xenon GPU, unless some CPU resources area idle. With the MEMEXPORT feature the GPU could write on RAM and eat that again.

I see this as a very possible and useful bullet point on game engines.

Ju5448d ago (Edited 5448d ago )

This is using the 360's GPU (read the article). Not possible with the 360s CPU. It has been implemented before using ATIs chips on the PC running shaders. This is most likely a newer (better) implementation.

Arksine5448d ago (Edited 5448d ago )

Because it runs on the GPU it needs to be faster. Running MLAA on the CPU allows the GPU to render the next frame in parallel, whereas a GPU implementation must render then postprocess before the next frame can be rendered.

I'm a bit skeptical of some of their claims, because ATI's implementation of MLAA isn't very good. IIRC there was a Star Wars game that used a similar type of AA for the 360, and while it was ok, it wasn't on par with MLAA.

Pixel_Pusher5448d ago (Edited 5448d ago )

Yeah sorry but until I see proof of a game on the 360 that looks the same or better than GOW3 on the PS3 that's the day I'll concede. Until then it's nothing but hype.

SilentNegotiator5448d ago (Edited 5448d ago )

I'll believe it when I see it (on 360, I mean, not PC). Without the integration of CPU with GPU, I don't think the 360 has the power to use MLAA in a significant way, like PS3 with the massive GOW3 and Kz3.

With PC, I suppose it would make sense if you can effectively emulate higher MSAA without sacrificing as much power.

pixelsword5448d ago

Hey, I thought MLAA sucked, so why is this big news or good news?

Because it was on the...?

Brosy5448d ago (Edited 5448d ago )

The 360 can use MLAA as well as a few other lighting tricks that surpass the PS3. Until I see cross game chat and Viva pinata running on a PS3 I wont be impressed by it. PS3 doesnt have enough general purpose processing to run the a.i. on a game like Viva Pinata let along do cross game chat. Atleast the PS3 has enough fans in other countries outside the US to keep it moderately competitive, otherwise folks would take the obviously better built machine the 360.

BTW for all who dont know a.i. cant be run on the Cells SPEs it can only be run by the Cells PPU.

MaxXAttaxX5448d ago (Edited 5448d ago )

'"Until I see cross game chat and Viva pinata running on a PS3 I wont be impressed by it. PS3 doesnt have enough general purpose processing to run the a.i. on a game like Viva Pinata let along do cross game chat."'

You serious? LMFAO! Hahaha :D
Best joke I've seen here on N4G in a while lol

iagainsti1205448d ago

Brosy is an ignorant fool who dosen't know that he is talking about
1- "The 360 can use MLAA as well as a few other lighting tricks that surpass the PS3."
This part about the MLAA is true but if the game does not use the Cell for lighting then yes you are right but if the lighting is done on the cell then you are wrong as lighting is so much better when written for the Cell"

2- "PS3 doesnt have enough general purpose processing to run the a.i. on a game like Viva Pinata let along do cross game chat. Atleast the PS3 has enough fans in other countries outside the US to keep it moderately competitive, otherwise folks would take the obviously better built machine the 360."
Really? AI is up to the developer it runs just fine on 1ppu core the rest of this is just Face Plam.

3- "BTW for all who dont know a.i. cant be run on the Cells SPEs it can only be run by the Cells PPU."
Well where did you hear this the E3? source pls or im wait im just going to Face Palm this too i dont have time for you anymore.

RememberThe3575447d ago

Whether it blows our minds or not, the fact that they're experimenting with it and trying out new ways of AA is good news. The more people try new things the more solutions we find to prevalent issues.

Instead of being skeptical and negative how about being happy that developers are trying new things.

AAACE55447d ago

Console architecture is designed differently than PC's! PC is designed to do many different things and has to be powerful because other things are running while you are doing whatever.

Consoles are designed to focus on specific task without all the extra crap PC's do!

Consoles have custom hardware! So while the components seem similar to what you already recognize, you forget that each console maker got their CPU and GPU custom made to perform a certain way! Otherwise the consoles would have been cheaper because we would be getting the same thing off the shelf as PC gamers.

Judgment will be reserved for a later date!

sobekflakmonkey5447d ago

Brosy needs to GTFO.

@Brosy

Wow...I have never read such a ridiculous comment before...I'm sorry but games like Killzone 2 and 3 have AMAZING A.I., but you probably wouldn't know...would you? you know...being that you most likely haven't even touched a PS3...

+ Show (11) more repliesLast reply 5447d ago
r1sh125448d ago

Ive said it before:

The hardware will be hitting its max output some time soon, the software will need to improve is techniques to get more from it.
This could be one way (If it works), but its probably possible

Hayabusa 1175448d ago

I would like to point out that PS3's MLAA was also done through software. It was possible on PS3 because it has 3 SPUs but MLAA is software, not hardware.

When you see games that look better than it's precedessors or competition it's primary because of the techniques the graphics programmers use. It's not like the developers slowly turn the "awesome graphics" nob up over time :p

Ness-Psi5448d ago

@Hayabusa117

The Awesome graphics knob! it should implemeted in all PC's lol.

Gray-Fox-Type05448d ago (Edited 5448d ago )

this is great news , Xbox has much graphical capabilities and dominates for multiplatform reasons, but this new technique could rise the bar of the Xbox 360 exclusives and perhaps reach PS3 exlusives :D this articles makes it seem it well go beyond we will see how devs use this.

zinkabass5448d ago Show
BrutallyBlunt5448d ago

zinkabass, still standing by everything you say?

I have a Playstation 3 and a XBOX360, does that mean I am a 3-10 year old or does my age fluctuate pending on which system I am currently using?

You would think after 5 or 6 years these trolls would finally just give up.

M-A-R-S-H-A-L-L5448d ago

Someone has been misinformed and haven't done their research at all.

randomwiz5448d ago

Only one problem - you're using the gpu which is probably already pushed to the max when playing the game. If you're going to use the gpu, you're sacrifice pixel pushing power.

firemassacre5448d ago

gray fox

you cant be serious

Redgehammer5448d ago

Zinkabass, my father would have said you must talk out of your butt, because your mouth knows better.
I have 100 friends on my friends list, and the youngest is 10 (my son) and the oldest is 54 (13 years older than me). Your comments just have the distinct ring of bitter generalizations. Why do you even comment in a 360 article?

fr0sty5448d ago

Gray Fox, MLAA isn't the only thing that makes PS3 exclusives look better. Uncharted has never used it, for instance. Also, being that the GPU is what is handling this, it ties it up before it can render the next frame as well, so there is a performance hit vs. on PS3 where the CPU is able to do it while the GPU keeps on chugging along. Typically PS3 games are not CPU bound, so there are SPU's the can be freed up to do things like this with a minimal impact on performance.

strickers5448d ago

You actually believe that AA is the difference between PS3 exclusives and 360 ones?
It's not.

bunfighterii5447d ago

Now all 360 needs is exclusives to utilise the technique...

+ Show (7) more repliesLast reply 5447d ago
5448d ago Replies(9)
Crazyglues5448d ago (Edited 5448d ago )

Actually I'm a PS3 fan, but I think this is good news for Gamers.. Why?

It's good to see Microsoft raising the bar, competition is what makes the game companies try harder... -So if more companies start using this then they will make better games for 360 and PS3.. instead of ugly ports..

-and it means better games which is always good no matter what you play on.. We all want, just really good games..

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digoutyoursoul85448d ago

well said young man, well said.

sobekflakmonkey5447d ago (Edited 5447d ago )

Agreed.

Competition pushes the industry, it's an extremely important part of the gaming industry itself.

xAlmostPro5448d ago

This is awesome news.. but and im not trolling when i say this it doesn't fix the disc space issue -_-

you can make it look as pretty as you want but without the storage it's gonna be either really short or on multiple discs.. MD' isn't that much of an issue but it can be annoying..

anyways im excited to see what they do with this :)

bozebo5448d ago (Edited 5448d ago )

True.
MD is an issue if the game needs to be open world though.

JsonHenry5448d ago

My HD5870 already did this I thought?

Liquid_Ocelot5448d ago

Great news!!
Can't hate on this, it's always great to see that we keep moving forward. Great news for our Xbox brothers indeed. Rejoice!

Brosy5448d ago

NathanExplosion I cant help your ignorance as well as any of the other sony fanboys on this site, all I can do is try to educate you. And I think thats a useless endeavor.

+ Show (8) more repliesLast reply 5447d ago
THC CELL5448d ago

U mean exclusives will look better on xbox that ps3, hm.............. Lol yea sure they will, sony will laugh there ass off at that one.. I garantee bf3 will be the worst in the consoles.

The Meerkat5448d ago

Can we all quote you on that one?

UltimateIdiot9115448d ago

I'll believe it when I see it until then it's just all mumble jumbo words.

WhiteLightning5448d ago (Edited 5448d ago )

Agreed...

We've been lied to before by Microsoft, I'm not falling for it again....."Theres hardcore games coming to Kinect", "Core gamers LOVE Kinect", "Core gamers are our main focus". Over and over again they say the same things and now they expect us to believe that they have done this for core gamers after yesterday in that article they said casual gamers were their main focus.

Not being fooled again

As you said....I'll beleive it when I see it.

kneon5448d ago

This isn't coming from Microsoft, it's from some graphics researchers. Microsoft had some involvement but they don't own it. The code is available under a BSD license which means anyone can use it.

So while it will benefit the XBox it may equally benefit PC, Wii U and even the PS3 as it's a more efficient way to implement MLAA.

UltimateIdiot9115448d ago

I do understand that it's coming from graphic researchers but again, there have been many researchers who claim many things but fail to come up with substantial results.

I don't doubt they are working on something of this sort but I don't know if it's as great as they say. It's dealing with graphics here and that requires us to look at it first. So while it may look good in their eyes, in reality, it could look meh.

MOTY5448d ago (Edited 5448d ago )

@ WhiteLightning

"Theres hardcore games coming to Kinect"

- Ryse - CORE
- Fable - CORE
- Child of Eden - CORE
- Haunt - CORE
- Star Wars - CORE
- Rise of Nightmares - CORE

Kinect implemented games

- Mass Effect 3
- Ghost Recon
- Halo CE Anniversary
- EA 2012 Sports Titles
- Forza 4

Doesn't look like MS lied.

"Core gamers LOVE Kinect"

I'm a core gamer and I love Kinect. Can't wait to play some of those listed core games as well as use my Kinect for games like ME3, Forza 4 and Ghost Recon.

MS didn't Lie again.

"Core gamers are our main focus"

XBOX 360 has a CORE library that far surpasses the Casual library. There are more games coming out each year on the XBOX360 that are core games than casual. If 3rd party support for Kinect games count as MS focusing on Casual, then 3rd party support for Core games also means that MS is focusing on Core as well.

Gears 3
Forza 4
The Whitcher 2
Halo CE Anniversary
CoD Timed exclusive DLC
The largest library of Indie and Arcade games

Seems to be a rather large focus. 1st and 3rd party support.

MS didn't lie again.

I fail to see where MS were lying.

I don't agree with you.

callahan095448d ago

@MOTY:
"- Ryse - CORE
- Fable - CORE
- Child of Eden - CORE
- Haunt - CORE
- Star Wars - CORE
- Rise of Nightmares - CORE "

So I take it that "CORE" to you is based entirely on theme?

fr0sty5448d ago (Edited 5448d ago )

um, half of those games are either on rails or only use kinect for non-gameplay purposes (forza 4's car view mode, ghost recon's weapon mod mode, neither are used while actually playing the game). then there's others that use nothing other than kinect's mic, which is a feature that is far from exclusive to kinect. all modern systems have a mic and can do voice recognition. hell, the n64 was doing voice recognition back in the day, so did dreamcast with seaman.

The only compelling use of kinect so far IN GAME that isn't another arcade on rails experience is forza's head tracking, but even GT5 had that.

5448d ago
bozebo5448d ago (Edited 5448d ago )

"there's massive lag"

^ this, is why there can be no core kinect games.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 5448d ago
TimeSkipLuffy5448d ago

I don't care! Just wanna play good games. There is not that much difference between those two consoles anyway. It's not like MS has NES and PS has GameCube graphics.

Anon19745448d ago ShowReplies(1)
falout5448d ago

I agree..

This place with ppl like darkride always leave me scratching my head wonder if I got a ps3 knock off or something. They always make it seem as if the ps3 is leaps and abounds ahead of 360 graphics like if the ps3 is some super pc rig and the 360 is the original xbox.

Darkride cry all you want but every game you mentioned looks great be a gamer and stop with all this ms hat you spew on every 360 article. My goodness! You act as if ms raped your mom had you and never paid child support.

gamingdroid5448d ago (Edited 5448d ago )

I kind of agree with this. It's not like the PS3 is some graphical leap above anything else out there. In fact, the graphics is so similar to the Xbox 360 it is plain ridiculous. You want great looking games, go to PC and you will get full 1080p in all it's glory.

If you just want to game, then even the Wii will do!

pixelsword5448d ago

@ falout Darkride didn't say that any PS3 game looked like a high end PC rig...

A few other guys said it though, and I think I can trust the source...

http://www.gamespot.com/for...

starchild5448d ago

I completely agree with this.

I play on PC, PS3, and 360, and it's crazy how close the graphics are on PS3 and 360.

I have been playing the Uncharted 3 beta and I honestly think the Gears of War 3 beta looked a bit better. Overall, though, the best looking games on both consoles are at a similar level of graphics.

If you want a decent leap above that, you have to get a gaming PC.

falout5448d ago (Edited 5448d ago )

@pixlesword

He didn't say it out right in here but he sure as he'll acts like it is a high end pc rig in 99.9% of his posts.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 5448d ago
MASTER_RAIDEN5448d ago

AGREE! i first clicked on the article because i was wondering just what the hell MLAA was..then i see that it has a thing or two to do with graphics, and 160 comments from about 100 sweaty fanboys trying to downplay this achievement. get real guys..ps3s graphics are better than 360s. NOT by leaps n bounds, but its visuals are Superior in most ways. whatever upgrades the 360s visuals get due to MLAA will probably be very slight and more of the same. no need to get all defensive.

kudakadere5448d ago

If only they still put more investment into hardcore games as they used to.

Show all comments (222)
70°

Microsoft Gaming Revenue Drops 7% Year-on-Year, Content and Services Down 5%, Xbox Hardware Down 33%

Microsoft announced its financial results for Q3 of fiscal year 2026, including an update on its gaming Xbox business and more.

Read Full Story >>
simulationdaily.com
Jin_Sakai29d ago (Edited 29d ago )

Not looking good. Hopefully Asha Sharma is able to turn Phil’s disaster around.

dveio29d ago

To me it's still quite remarkable how they can cash-in 5.3bn in revenue in a single quarter, since their hardware is basically dead.

Jingsing29d ago

The stock mark is what makes Microsoft remarkable, They have convinced every institutional and retail investor to just keep piling money into them. Like many big tech giants they are just a big growing pyramid scheme. As long as people keep dropping money into ETF's that cover the market Microsoft will always be liquid. At the same time it is completely stifling innovation and competition. People need to start being more discreet in how they invest their money as it's killing the system.

Tanktopmaster9229d ago

Once they re-evaluate exclusive all will be fine….

S2Killinit29d ago

Riiiiight because people will just flock back to them for one or two games per year.

Jingsing29d ago

15+ years of bad performance is what they call irreparable in business. It is time for them to sell off the assets and get out of entertainment.

Tanktopmaster9229d ago

These declines are on the back of extra revenue received from releasing games like Forza horizon 5 on PlayStation. So I’m being sarcastic here when I said they should go back to exclusives. Killing off a revenue stream from Ps5 sales will only make things worse

Show all comments (13)
80°

(For Southeast Asia) New Price Changes for PS5, PS5 Pro, and PlayStation Portal remote player

For Southeast Asia, new price changes.

Prices effective starting May 1st, 2026.

Read Full Story >>
blog.playstation.com
32d ago Replies(1)
BeHunted32d ago

Looks like PlayStation took a hit with Marathon and is now quietly adjusting prices worldwide to recover the losses

andy8531d ago

Lets be honest raising prices doesn't do that when no one's buying it. I imagine the profit it greater selling 10 times more at a lower price

Pergele31d ago

Whatever you say buddy, let's all wear the tinfoil hats.

IceKoldKilla31d ago (Edited 31d ago )

LMFAO Your comment alone says a lot more about you than anything else. When has one game not selling 10 million copies made a company raise the prices of their console? Then Xbox would be costing $5000 by now lol. You remind of the crazy drug addicts on the street rambling on about conspiracies. xD You sure you don't need a hug, buddy?

ChunkyMonk31d ago

One game that Sony payed $200 million for. lol
Also, you sure were quick to get triggered. Maybe your the one who needs a hug?

Eonjay31d ago

If nothing else, we should be united against the real issue here. AI and unnecessary tariffs that are effecting all gamers.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 31d ago
Athlon10132d ago (Edited 32d ago )

The price increases are due to the RAM demand associated with AI and the US-Iran war. You can look to any business news website and local news to see that. Heck, even the 2026 Asus Zenbook Duo I've been eyeing has faced delays and has had a price increase of $400; that laptop has two specs. Asus is doing a staggered release with per-orders for the lower spec now and shipping in May and pre-orders for the higher spec that I'm eyeing starting in June. Basically, all computer manufactures are affected. It'll most likely start affecting smart phones too if it hasn't already. I can't remember the last time any major console maker (Nintendo, Sony, Sega, etc) increased the price of their console mid cycle outside of Microsoft just to make more profit.

S2Killinit31d ago

Its not the war. Its the RAM issue.

jznrpg31d ago

War is causing gas prices to rise. Transport of everything requires gas so the prices of those items go up as well. So it does have an impact

Athlon10131d ago (Edited 31d ago )

The blockage of the Straight of Hormuz due to the US-Iran war has affected raw components used in semi-conductor manufacturing such as bromine, aluminum, and helium. Iran had attacked the liquified natural gas (LNG) plant in Qatar which is a large producer (1/3 globally) of helium which is used in semiconductor etching. So it's the both the war and the RAM crises.

badz14931d ago

Oh no...should I get the Pro now before the price increase?

70°

Xbox boss: Memory crisis could impact next-gen hardware pricing

Xbox boss Asha Sharma has discussed how component shortages will impact the company's plans for Project Helix.

Read Full Story >>
gamedeveloper.com
Eonjay31d ago

When does this end? Its killing everyone. Consoles and PC. And for what? AI? The benefits of AI are completely outweighed by the negatives. And the government should have never allowed one company to buy up all the RAM.

Lexreborn231d ago

This kind of proves this is an after thought product, most products like this are in r&d 5 years before they start mass producing. So they typically have the cost of components and things worked out long before assembly starts.

This is an assumption still, but I wouldn’t be surprised if project helix is similar to Scalebound,perfect dark and sod3. They had an idea but no actual execution other than concept stage. Being impacted by the ram shortage likely would also put this device 3-4 years out.

I’m not even sure MS has that endurance with Xbox yet

Fishy Fingers31d ago (Edited 31d ago )

I mean.... what?

We're at a point that Samsung wont even provide their own phone department ram because they can sell it at higher prices to 3rd parties (AI). Its more profitable to sell the ram than make their own devices with it.

You think because R&D starts 5 years ago the 3rd party component manufacturers will honour that price? They'll sell it to whomever is paying the most today, not some gentlemens agreement they made years ago. AI farms will buy more volume at higher prices than any console manufacturer will. It'll be the same for Playstation.

Lexreborn231d ago

Contractual agreements are not the same as “gentlemen” agreements. If you think that they work with their distributors a month before production then their entire business model is trash. They work with companies like nvidia constantly for building the graphics cards they need. They work with companies that build motherboards years in advance. This is what proper business planning does.

They are not buying components on a whim like a consumer. So again, considering the ram isn’t a singular module and is integrated into the motherboard I highly doubt they wouldn’t have a final schematic that they are supposed to be building around.

If they are delaying production another 3 years then it’s obvious again this is an after though project and is just trying to be responsive to their bad execution they had the last 14 years.

It also isn’t far fetched to use their failure to produce first party titles the last 7 years including the highly anticipated games I mentioned all being cancelled. That they would continue to you know… lie

Sitdown31d ago

You don't really know how this works huh?

Profchaos31d ago (Edited 31d ago )

Helix is going to be stupidly expensive

Instead of leaning into smarter upscaling techniques they're brute forcing hardware that will cost them dearly and it remains to be seen if it's genuinely going to provide a meaningful differential

I know in the oc.doace people like to brag about not using frame gen or dlss to get to high on a game but for the majority of players they happily use those technologies without a second thought

That's going to be ps6 vs Helix

Eonjay31d ago

Yeah with FSR 5 they should be able to offer a much cheaper version of Helix.

Eonjay31d ago

While this does seem to be the case, I am encouraged by the statement from Microsoft about wanting to provide affordable options. If this means a Series S style Helix, at least there will be something affordable being offered.

XBManiac31d ago

Series S is what has killed Xbox Series so... Will they dare?

blacktiger31d ago

It's called systematic inflationary. Yes we get it Microsoft, keep raising in the name ofall kinds of stuffs

pwnmaster300031d ago

Honestly if there was thing I learned from this generation is that new consoles arnt day one anymore.
I can wait 1-3 years.

DarXyde31d ago

Another important lesson from this generation: while Nintendo showed us that prices don't necessarily need to ever drop, we've now learned that waiting 1-3 years does carry some risk that prices increase. This generation is just bizarre in all the wrong ways.

LucasRuinedChildhood31d ago (Edited 31d ago )

The factors are largely external. Covid and Russia-Ukraine war causing inflation led to the first price increase in 2022.

Then we get Trump's tariffs increasing hardware prices, AI boom causing a RAM crisis, war on Iran causing a worldwide fuel crisis which impacts the cost of everything.

Gaming doesn't exist in a vacuum. The last few years have been a shitshow and lot of it was definitely avoidable.

DarXyde31d ago

LucasRuinedChildhood,

For sure. No disagreement on the external factors doing a lot of this. Where I have to gently push back however is on two fronts:

1. The pandemic definitely caused some issues: asynchronous development was a big issue and really complicated timelines and affected game quality. At the same time, when it comes to price hikes, it's really difficult to know what was genuine necessity and what was taking consumers for a ride. The pandemic brought about "stag-flation" which was increasing prices and stagnant wages, which was a problem caused by supply chain constraints. There was also "Greed-flation", where companies that were slightly affected or had no issues took advantage of the situation and squeezed everyone citing supply chain issues when there were none.

2. It's definitely true that the tariffs, AI boom, and RAM crisis were all things enabled by tech broligarchs throwing money at this caricature of a world leader, one of them being Satya Nadella. I don't think Sony and Nintendo have contributed much to this problem if at all, but Microsoft's Nadella I feel was instrumental in causing every one of those issues. Microsoft as a company contributed to both candidates (though they gave Harris 4x as much if I recall), but Nadella was all in on letting AI run wild. He paid for unregulated AI, and got a war that's not a war (even though Trump called it that at least five times on television) that screwed up helium access. So for me, I feel that one of the players in the gaming industry is a key architect of these issues, and for that reason I struggle a bit to think of it as "external".

Show all comments (28)