is the ps3 is more complex than that piece of cow dung?

yes it is because its better people.

ok ill explain to u what game atm uses 3or 4 core processor ?most next gen games use 1 processor so if u think any Dev will make a game that uses 6or 7 processor that wud be to far fetched so no game in the next 4 years will use that amount of processing power only when games get to a new generation they wud this is were the ps3 problem comes its other properties e.x ps3 gpu ps3 memory wont is lacking atm so it will not out last it cell proccessor,so what u end up with in 2010 with the ps3 is a good processor but crap ram+ gpu so it still wont be powerful i believe in 10 years time ps3 games will still look like 360 games

I think the games on the PS3 are gonna surpass the 360 in graphics, size, etc. But it will not be right now, maybe 1-2 years we will see great advancements with the PS3. So there's really no need to buy a PS3 now, I think you can atleast wait to buy one until KZ2 is realesed, unless you're dying to play Warhawk, Resistance, Motorstorm, with more.

I'm very excited to see how the games are gonna be in the future for the PS3:)

And that thing with the PS3 RAM, I'm pretty sure they will come with a smart solution.

This type of articles takes me down memory lane to the days of "Does PS2 difficult development worth it for developers over the Dreamcast´s easier development process?" articles

and oh boy did those discussions got heated

it was from june 14th...wth

http://www-128.ibm.com/deve...

sonyfan boys again.

http://www.blachford.info/c...

I am the one that post that new how come it got someone else name? Grrr.
Devepers shoud catch up with themselve, they are really behind with their "3D" games. Super mario bros 3 look more real than most 3d games, cause you do not get dizzy looking at mario it goes from let to right, not all direaction and you feel you are in a roller coaster.

Programmer really suck, cames are hugly with their HUGLY polygons, with those polygons a hand dose not look like a hand a hand is now a square (like FF7) that is bs. Camera moving all aroud that suck alot, cause there is no stream. C'mon just take the technology and kick your own ass. And stop copy each other games.

What I am talking about, I am not talking about game that graphic is good like Grand Turismo. But all the other's. Just a reality test, turn toward a wall, walk slow in front of until you reach a inch. Take any any video game with a caracter moving around, turn in wall move forward go as close as you can. What do you see, any difference? In real life: you see more delais you did not see while you where far right, that is great. What about the game, what do you see: you see only the same thing you saw when you where away except the squares are way bigger. That suck, that is NOT REAL. All games dose that.

Did you saw hairs in any video games, only Heavenly Sword get them a little more realistic, otherwise that is just bunch of polygons to me.

When I see hairs I want them look like hairs, when I go closer to a wall I want to see more details not less. I want real photo in video games, not syntecize bs. When I play I want to be there, not like being there, just be there.I want game that look like when I watch a tv. They do not need more definition, look my tv it is a tube tv, look at news people look real, they are not polygons. We don't need higher definition. You just need to work on colors not definitions. Different colors that what the eye see: colors reflected, we want millions of color in the a games. Just take real pictures of life and put it into games. when I watch cnn and they show war somewhere it look 1000 more real than any video game, and it is not hi definition. It suppose to but just differents color's not bunch of polygons.

Use the dam techonology, be creative, create a chef d'oeuvre. That is what games deseerve not less.

@gerrard
COD 4 is a mulitplatform release on PS3, 360 and PC so if the PS3 is so much better how come the 360 is doing this game?

This article is old: Thursday, 14 June 2007

Your talk about gears of war.

I played the ut3 demo last night on pc.

Owns gears with ease.

More going on, better graphics.

Looks incredible, just like r&c uncharted. gt5.

If you can't see that, then you need glasses.

Bioshock is very much a closed enviroment.

I don't think it's necessarily 'harder' to program for the Cell, it just comes down to a few simple things, which are all wrapped up in business decisions.

- Profit vs Budget vs Time vs Tools

To make a game takes time; time costs money; the better the tools the quicker a game can be made; the less time it takes the less money it costs and the lower the budget is; the bigger the install base and the lower the cost of development the more profit can potentially be made.

Simple eh? :)

So if the PS3 had a bigger install base and better tools, developers wouldn't be complaining about how hard it is to dev for. If publishers could afford to give developers more time/money, then the adjustment wouldn't be as painful and the results would be better.

A CPU is a CPU really, regardless of bells and whistles. I spent 3 years to coding on different platforms (non-gaming), and if you 'get' how to code, then generally it doesn't take much time to adjust between platforms if the tools are good.

This is where the 360 has some advantage, not in technical terms, but in install base and familiarity. Developers don't need as much time to adjust as the 360 and PC are similar platforms. The tools are good, and the install base is high (especially if you add PC and 360 units). So it makes sense to lead on the PC or 360 then port to PS3.

Another issue with PS3 development is the apparent superiority the PS3 has over the 360. As an owner of both 360 and PS3 I can say that (in general) at this stage in it's life PS3 first/second party titles look better than the 360's at the same point in it's life. And as a gaming neutral with no allegiance to either camp, I think the gap between PS3 and 360 will widen in the PS3's favour over each console's lifespan.

But this throws up another problem... There's less profit to be made from exclusive titles these days, so multi-platform is the way to go. However if the PS3 becomes the lead platform you have a number of problems all based around the superiority of the PS3 hardware... Basically, it is harder to port a title from PS3 to 360 and PC. Especially if developers start using a few 'tricks' based around the SPE's and if Sony pulls it's finger out and provides better tools.

The bottom line is, the PS3 may end up being held back in terms of multi-platform titles (which will be the majority of titles), and until it's install base makes exclusive's a profitable consideration the PS3 will remain 'hard' to develop for.

can't compare PC to 360. PC will kick the living balls out of the 360 any day. Guys who claim how great Gears graphics looks don't have a PC or one that is struggling to view N4G.com.

But untill the developpers get´s some experience in programing for the ps3 it will be hard for them. Maybe if they got +5 developpers tools from the mountain of Arhasneindale, you know where the mighty dwarves lives. Then they just have to slay some dragons, gain some xp, and have someone in there team to cast a level 12 develop boost. Peace of cake ;-)

are code monkeys who have been trained on MS "development tools" and have no idea how to build a game from the ground up, engine and all.

This is why Sony have invested already a few million into adapting the Unreal 3 engine to the PS3, it is a popular platform and will open up the PS3 to many more devs and titles as dictated by logic.

Interesting read... Welp, back to Folklore! Love that game!!!

I do think the PS3 is more complex to master but that gives developers a challenge and that's what you want when trying to master your craft.
As far as I've seen the only people that have had problems making games on the PS3.

it's probably a big learning curve for devs to work with multiple cores and maximize their usage, but once devs master it the results will be breathtaking, this reminds my early years in High School, I took a VB class and liked a lot, when I took my C++ class, I hated because it was way more complex, but once I learned C++ I never even looked back at VB.

The VB analogy is kind of hitting the nail on the head. Some company spent years to make people believe programming is click and point. Now, all of a sudden you need to learn programming if you want to get across the boundaries the click and point lays out for you. And, well, people do complain. Sure, all of a sudden all this marketing talk doesn't work any more. Knowledge is power. Some people forgot that in exchange of convenience. But convenience makes fat and lazy - that's even the reason why they don't feed elephants on one spot: They would simply stop to walk.
I am living in the drive thru country. Very convenient to get food, money dry cleaner and what not without leaving the car. Sometimes you gotta get out, though. And that's a good thing.

......

though not as much as Emotion Engine. When you throw normal code at cell, it still runs pretty fast, even if you're not allocating specific SPEs or manually directing the Local Storage. But if developers fail to use what's there, specifically the FlexI/O connection between the XDR and GDDR3 memory pools (7 DVDs worth of data per second), then they really shouldn't expect to compete with the likes of Gran Turismo, Heavenly Sword, Uncharted, or Killzone 2.

Look up the game Untold Legends: Dark Kingdom. That game uses all 6 SPUs, as well as the PPU.

Now compare that to Killzone 2, which only uses 4 SPUs as of right now (the other two have yet to be implemented) and the PPU.

It's not enough to simply port over current code and current techniques; programmers need to take a step back and really learn the architecture. It was hard enough for them to figure out the 360, so I understand why learning the PS3 is such a pain for multiplats. If a developer doesn't care too much about heavy physics/AI/graphics processing, than the 360 is obviously a lot easier since it allows for old programming techniques that worked in the PC arena. However, for developers that care a lot about the technical performance of their titles and want full control over every memory transfer, code execution, and the benefit of working on the highest performance architecture in the entire industry, then PS3 is the only way to go.

Here's some cool things PS3 is pulling off that have never been accomplished on any other title:

True Volumetric rendering on the CPU (Warhawk)
Vertex Processing/Rendering on the CPU (Warhawk, GT:5, Killzone)
Handling the AI for Ten Thousand enemies without even touching system memory (Heavenly Sword)
Full Scene Ray-tracing (GT:5)

Some titles like Lair and Uncharted are also doing some really neat water physics on Cell; look up Uncharted especially, the physical ripples and splashes really add a lot to the immersion factor.

lookie lookie
people pretending they know everything about programming and CPU I/O.
calling devs lazy and such.

some things just need time, when was the last time game developers had to program a game for Cpu like the Cell?
they will get the hang of it but it neeeds TIME and lots of training.

8th December 2004, by Paul, 372 words, 216 views
Categories: Gaming, Technology

We all heard the talk, that the Cell processor would wipe away all before it. Of course anyone with any knowledge of this kind of technology would see it for what it is, more Sony bullshit. Remember the PS2?

1000 times the power of any PC. 66Gb/s of memory bandwidth. Toy Story graphics in real time. And such & such.

The same kind of outrageous claims were made with this Cell processor which is developed by IBM, Toshiba, and Sony. They claim this to be completely "revolutionary". It's not you can clearly see it's relation to the Playstation 2's processor. In that it's basically lots of weak processors bolted together, the fundamental reason the Playstation 2 is so insanely difficult to develop for and why developers are dropping it and shifting focus to the Microsoft Xbox 360. Which like all Microsoft platforms is notoriously fast and simple to develop for. Allowing developers to spend more time creating decent games instead of struggling to try and get their software to even work.

Just days ago the official press release about this Cell thing was released. The Sony fanboys started cheering, I guess they just never learn do they - and what should happen just yesterday? nVidia released a statement saying their graphics processors would feature in the Playstation 3 and other Sony products.

What happened to the mighty Cell? Sony now have to back-off saying the Cell is all mighty, and require a seperate GPU to handle graphics, yes it's 1000 times more powerful then any PC today, right that's why it can't perform GPU-like operations on it. They need a PC manufacturer to remotely stand a chance of coming up with a better graphics processor then their extremely lacking PS2. The hypocracy! Just a few years ago they were blasting the Xbox because of it using PC hardware, it featured an nVidia NV2A chip (which at the time they seemed to think was a bad thing). Of course nVidia have since been replaced by ATi, as the performance/quality graphics leader of the PC market, ATi winning the contract to develop the GPU for the Xbox 2, which they have now completed.

Sony are still lagging behind. Good luck with your Playstation 3, you're going to need it.

I'm sure that one of the biggest differences between PS3 and 360 development is tools. I think that the advantage 360 developers have is a better toolset with a better API to develop against. For the last two generations the initial development kits were tougher to work with but evolved over time.

If developers don't have a good API then they are going to have to do the extra legwork to work with the Cell architecture. But even with a good API, I'm sure that a CPU with that many cores is a challenge. Many developers tend to forego the API and work directly with the hardware to get as much out of it as they can. API calls tend to have overhead per cycle that take performance away from the software.

EDIT: You can disagree with me, but if there's anything that Microsoft is great at developing it is good tools for their platforms. Don't let fanboy blinders get in the way. One of the biggest complaints that the PS2 had when it was first released was that the initial development tools weren't robust enough due to the complexity of the Emotion Engine microprocessor. It took a couple of years for Sony to release a more robust suite of tools.

@SonySoldiers - "DON'T STOP PRAISING ON SONY PLAYSTATION 3! We have to win again." yea.. so exactly what do you do for Sony? Kiss their ass?

calling developers lazy and not ready to learn new things is stupid. Look at it from a buisness view... you have to train a team longer and harder which cost more money to sell a game on the smallest install base... Yea thats a great idea.

Or you could teach your team to use the easy microsoft dev tools to make a great game. On a system that has the highest attachment rate out. Then pay a third party to port that same game to sony...

its going to keep happening untill sony proves that they will have a huge install base with games that people will buy...

You can argue that more and more ps3 systems are selling but if people are using those only to watch blu-ray movies, or be online in home, and just dl games. Then why would developers make games for it when noone will buy them?

DON'T STOP PRAISING ON SONY PLAYSTATION 3! We have to win again.

What's that mean? Doesn't everyone want all three consoles to succeed in their own way? Having one clear winner is the worst thing because eventually it might lead to a monopoly. I want whatever is best for gaming and consumers. Stop making PS3 consumers sound stupid and ignorant.

And oh yeah... you are one of the happiest gamers in the universe because of the PS3? Is that why you are begging for people to talk it up so that you might actually feel good about your expensive system. Geesh... get some brain "cells"

360 is like a PC so it's going to be obsolete as fast as a PC. A year from now no game is going to look better than Bioshock or Gears on the 360. A year from now for the PS3, the potential is just starting on the PS3. Every game so far on the PS3 is a 1st generation and basically practice project to learn about the PS3. Ratchet is the first 2nd generation PS3 game and then Uncharted. MGS4 is going to show what the definition of a 2nd generation title on the PS3. FFXIII is going to be the first 3rd generation title using all the all of 7 of the processors. 360 basically has only 2 generations the launch games and Gears of War. Nothing on 360 looks better than gears and the PS3 for that matter nothing looks better but we know FFXIII will look better using the white engine.

the Jaguar and 3D0 was ahead and look at what happened to them. as well as the dreamcast introduced a lot.

it makes no difference about learning curve..

if people are not read you will fail....the verdict is still out and its early on the ps3.

Gabe Newell of Valve(3rd party dev) openly calls the ps3 a piece of trash. The next day Sony PR floods the internet with damage control. Honestly folks, if a dev that does multi-platform development says the ps3 is trash, then it's trash. Gabe Newell isn't some internet troll or company paid plant. He's a millionare developer that obviously feels that he doesn't have to kiss ANY companies ass. These articles grasping at straws trying to cloud the truth about the ps3 are not trustworthy when creditials are compared.

In one word - YES.
That's why games are taking longer to produce.
That's why game developers' are still trying to figure-out kinks in the system.

So, Yes.

The PS3 will be around till 2012.... because you'll only have about 80 games by then.

Now that Jim Ryan is gone just need to remove Herman Hulst from his position! And maybe give Shuhei the position he deserved.

This gen hasn't been the best for games, last gen consoles are still out there and now there's been talk of the PS6 and Xbox Two for a year or so. Many games this gen will be ported to next gen and the cycle will continue. The re-release of the Neo Geo AES+, games on cartridge for £70 ($95), gaming is going back in time. Gaming has gone pricing mad with the high cost of games, consoles and controllers. The men and women at the top are clueless.

It’s always interesting to hear behind-the-scenes stories like this, especially involving veterans like Shuhei Yoshida and leadership figures like Jim Ryan. That said, there are usually multiple sides to decisions at that level. It could be less about not “listening” and more about differences in long-term vision for PlayStation. Yoshida played a huge role in shaping the brand, so whatever the reason, his impact is undeniable.

If true, and I'm inclined to believe it is, it goes to show that Sony lost their way when they became more western/didn't respect the PlayStation origin story. Andrew House and Jack Tretton did great work, but they also didn't try to fundamentally change the PlayStation DNA. Ryan oversaw the death of Japan Studio and a live service direction.

I already figured this, good lord imagine if Shuhei took over instead, would've been a platinum era 😩

I miss the first three generations of PlayStation. The way they turned PS3 around, we knew they meant business. We were all worried for a bit there around launch. Eventually from 2008 they started shifting slowly. But since Yoshida was fired, it's never been the same. Still enjoy my PS5 daily. I got a backlog dating back to PS2 lol So I'm fine but new games aren't as appealing anymore.

It seems like we were thrown on to the worst timeline possible where everything is too expensive and the wrong people were put in positions that makes the world a shitty place. We could have had Shu as the head of PS but we got the shitty alternative. Same goes for everyone in power around the world. Doesn’t matter the company or country the majority of us got the shitty picks and the world is declining like never before. I do think PS can come out of this because of their studios, talent and IP but they need someone more in touch with gamers leading things like Shu was. They’re still the best place for console gaming imo but it could be much better than it is especially without the massive live service failures. The rest of the world I have a lot less hope for right now. Hopefully the pendulum swings back towards the good ole days but I’m preparing for the worst.

There goes illuminati distraction story

So now there's certifiable proof that Ryan was in fact "fired", as opposed to when it was first announced that he "retired", in order to save face.

There's another guy who recently "retired" as CEO of another large gaming company, after doing a dismantling job as lead for well over a decade.

seems legit, the business man, fires the one who has ideas to move the business forward.

Jim Ryan is the reason why we are entering year 6 since the PS5 launch and many of us don't feel like the PS5 has gotten started as yet.

I hope going forward, we will see a return to form.