230°

Crazy Kinect 3D Headtracking!

You guys thought that Davinci App was Crazy?

Well get a load of THIS!

Read Full Story >>
kinecthacks.net
Mystogan5563d ago (Edited 5563d ago )

''Kinect VR is a project that applies the advantage of depth camera to show the view relative to angle you are. Image processing is incredible fast since depth image is already separate object apart so it consumes very low CPU process.It has the promise of giving rise to some great effects especially if implemented in games.''

fr0sty5563d ago (Edited 5563d ago )

Sony already is implementing this effect in their games without the 3d depth ability. you don't really need it when you can just judge things like how far apart your eyes are to tell how far away from the screen your head is. in fact, almost all of PS move's depth tracking is done with the 2d camera by looking at how big the orb is on top of the controller.

it will, however, free up CPU resources like you said. however, when you aren't CPU bound, it's not as big of an issue. It would have been beneficial in GT5, however, because Kaz said the head tracking feature was only available in arcade mode because of how many system resources it consumed, but also said with a bit more time they could patch it to run in all modes.

Wii even has this tech, it was the first console used to create this effect.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Mystogan5563d ago (Edited 5563d ago )

look at all those stuff you need for Eyetoy and wii to achieve 3D headtracking.

Kinect does this all on its own,thats why it will have more games that utilize's it.

all in all who cares if its already done?

now its possible with kinect and 100x better.

Edit: this doesn't look really impressive does it?> http://www.youtube.com/watc...

barom5562d ago (Edited 5562d ago )

@Mystogan

Is this impressive enough (watch from 2:05)?
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

What's funny is that all these user created Kinect stuff that's suppose to blow our minds away has all been done on the Move and thought up by Sony R&D who in turn has created tools for developers to make use of. Microsoft on the other hand have no idea what they're doing and trying to call it revolutionary, when the software/games they've provided is quite copy-cat and try-hard.

Mystogan5562d ago (Edited 5562d ago )

No...that looks lame cuz you have to hold something in your hand, thus taking the minority report effect away.
It would be much more impressive if Kinect could achieve that kind of precision through software.

edit: ow and another downside, you need two move(the ball thing)controllers

This would be great for strategy games though if they are build from the ground up for move

5562d ago
4me25562d ago

Another video from March 2008 using PS3 Eye

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

barom5562d ago (Edited 5562d ago )

@Mystogan

Nope you don't need two move controllers, just one for the camera. And obviously 4me2 provides proof that you don't even need controllers. And actually having a controller is actually a benefit. Kinect most obvious flaws is its input limitations. It all has to be movement and you HAVE to face the camera. Turn to the side or anything and the skeleton mapping goes crazy. So having buttons is actually a benefit, not to mention that if we have two move controllers, there's a skeleton mapping available that can provide the accuracy and precision of skeleton mapping that surpasses the Kinect as far as responsiveness goes.

Just think of it like this. Think of a Kinect game utilizing the tech and then think of a PS Move game utilizing it. Which one in your HONEST opinion do you think would be the better game? If you're convinced Kinect would provide the better game then I would love to hear your video game idea.

fr0sty5562d ago (Edited 5562d ago )

eye can do it without the IR lights on the glasses, it just tracks your face. GT5 already uses it, as does the fight: lights out, although the latter only uses it to detect when you duck. GT5 actually allows you to look around your car by using head tracking though, and the 3d headtracking like seen here has also been demoed on pseye without any extra hardware.

here you go...

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Yassam5562d ago

@barom

Yes we've seen that kind of head tracking for years, implemented in a variety of ways from all kinds of cameras. We can come back to that later, since I'm interested in a claim you've made...

You claim that 'all these user created Kinect stuff' has been done before on Move, so can you point out where the following has been done before on Move, and explain how it was done;

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

http://www.eurogamer.net/vi...

The answer is no of course because it's a different type of technology.

It's very easy to be dismissive and condescending about other companies and their technology, but Kinect and Move are different, where BOTH have their strengths and weaknesses. Both are impressive in different ways. Both companies know what they're doing, you have no basis to claim that Microsoft do not.

Regarding Kinect's limitations, turning sideways is not an issue, if the software/game expects you to face the camera for control, then turning sideways is not going to work of course. What next, you'll list having your back to Kinect is a limitation too? Why not go further and list not being in the same room as Kinect as a limitation? ;-)

You claim "there's a skeleton mapping available that can provide the accuracy and precision of skeleton mapping that surpasses the Kinect as far as responsiveness goes". Not with any of the console tech in our homes, therefore that's an irrelevent point. As of now, Kinect offers the best skeleton mapping available for console gaming.

Finally, regarding games, which is better depends on the game, some games will be more suited to Move others more suited to Kinect. However, Kinect can also be used with the 360 controller, and numerous 'hybrid' controlled 360 games are in development. For me (and many hardcore gamers), the standard controller is the de facto control method for games, and so Kinect when acting as an addition to the 360 controller is preferable to Move which acts is a replacement to DS3.

But that's just my personal opinion, time will tell how it works out, since in the end it will depend on the games.

Yassam5562d ago

@fr0sty

Yes, GT5 supports head tracking, but from what I've read I was disappointed to find out that it only tracks head position (like the demo here and others posted), it doesn't track your face direction.

Hence I was hoping for

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

and

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

To make the following possible in GT5;

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

My guess is that face tracking requires far more CPU time than GT5 had spare on the PS3. Perhaps Kinect would fair better in a 360 racing game, but I'm sceptical about that.

barom5561d ago

@Yassam

Okay sure, I'll give you the fact that Kinect can see things in 3D, which is basically what all your three videos shows. But this we've known since day one (ie not mind blowing, anymore at least), this is what Kinect is suppose to do. So I do not put that in the same thing as "user-generated". Why? Because they're simply projecting what Kinect is seeing. With the exception of the last one (which is possible on the Move btw), the user has not "generated" any type of application or program that make USE of the Kinect. There's a difference between showing off the Kinect and actually creating content for it.

As far as Microsoft goes, I can only base my claim on their current and announced upcoming products and on that basis, my statement is supported. You cannot deny that Microsoft has failed to bring out the revolutionary software to accommodate their claims of "revolutionary" hardware. In fact it's disheartening when they're supposed to be "different" than Wii, and yet they're games are Wii knock offs. Move is obviously not much different in that regard but they've shown a wide range of capabilities that's unique to Move.

Now onto next subject: skeleton mapping. What I said or at least meant, was that skeleton mapping exists for Move (as long as you have 2 controllers). Considering Move is undeniably more responsive than Kinect, the skeleton tracking of Move surpasses Kinect's "as far as responsiveness goes". Here's your Move skeleton mapping
http://www.youtube.com/watc... (watch from 4:43)

Also, notice that the buttons gives you the capability to actually interact with the world. The resolution of the infrared sensor on Kinect does not even give you the potential of grabbing an item (unless you're really close to camera), much less the implementation of it (which is going to be EXTREMELY complicated, more so than their current skeleton mapping).

Oh and as far as your Kinect hybrid games. You seem awfully contradicting. Here are your own words

"Kinect when acting as an addition to the 360 controller is preferable to Move which acts is a replacement to DS3"

Well, have you even thought about the fact that PS3 could use PS Eye combined with a regular DS3 controller? And a lot of people forget this but the DS3 controller also has the Sixaxis motion capabilities too. That means rotation and movements across the six axis can be used as input.

I agree with one thing though, it's all going to be about the games (and possibly applications and interface).

Yassam5561d ago (Edited 5561d ago )

@barom

(Out of bubbles, so only posting part of my reply)

To your first point, that's still user-generated content, whether you accept it as such or not
:-).
How that data is used is up to the user/developer, and hence we'll have to wait and see what the future brings (Btw, none of those 3 videos I posted are possible with PS Move for numerous reasons).

[Deleted for space reasons]

Regarding skeleton mapping, I believe you're seeing what you want to see rather than what's actually there barom. Have a look at your same demo from this video instead (uploaded by someone on youtube who also didn't understand it);

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

That demo maps the hands to the Move wands (an area we ALL know Move offers superior tracking for) and applies the type of simple head tracking we've seen in webcams for years (2D). And that's it! Just three areas. The fact that they map a 3D upper-body model to those 3 areas doesn't make it skeleton mapping.

Look at that demo in my video more closely. You can see the calibration from 0:18-0:22 to match his body, but throughout that demo (and in your video), you can clearly see that the elbows are not being tracked, they are often completely in the wrong position. And look at when he throws two right jabs at 0:26, his body twists a little, with his right shoulder (from his point of view) moving forward and his left shoulder moving back, but the shoulders of the 3D model DO NOT MOVE back or forth, they stay parallel to the camera. And look at when he crouches down and leans forward at 0:33, once again the 3D model does NOT match his body, it does not detect the head moving forward nor the waist moving back, the 3D model remains upright and simply drops down to match his head's position. Therefore that demo is simple 2D head mapping mixed with 3D tracking of the hands patched onto a 3D model. Superior to Kinect for the hands only, but inferior to Kinect in every other way (including the lack of legs). Tracking hands only in 3D and the head in 2D is not skeleton mapping.

Regarding using the PS3 controller with the PS Eye, you appear to have missed my post about headtracking in GT5 (see my reply to fr0sty above). However, the real power of PS Move comes from the combination of the motion-sensing wand with PS Eye, not from PS Eye on it's own, therefore hybrid PS Eye/DS3 games will be limited in that respect. EyeToy was released in 2003/2004 and it didn't result in hybrid PS2 games. PS Eye is an improved EyeToy, and since it's release 3 years ago, there hasn't been a rush of hybrid PS3 games (GT5 is the first game I can think of, and even then it's limited), so I don't see why things will suddenly change when Sony have had camera peripherals for 7 years. As for Sixaxis, to be honest it's time has come and gone, there will still be some support for it in games, but for motion sensing on the PS3, it's all about Move now.

Anyway, I'm please we agree on one thing, that it's going to be about the games (and yes, applications and interface as well).

barom5561d ago

You can call it what you want but it's like getting the newest photo camera and take a picture and say "hey look what I've done". That's using the camera, not creating applications for it.

As far as skeleton mapping, I agree it's only three points but I don't see why it's necessary limited to that. These tech demos are extremely early and only suppose to show the potential. We've seen Kung Fu Live already being able to separate a human from the rest of the environment. Also, yes it's inaccurate in THAT video because it's the FIRST time they've ever showed it. Since then it's gotten a lot more accurate (my video shows that) and with time it'll get even better. And if you didn't notice, look at how extremely responsive it is. Also, it is a skeleton mapping: it maps a skeleton mapping to your body, hence it's the very definition of skeleton mapping. That's simply a fact.

First off you are WRONG regarding GT5, it does track your face direction, watch
http://www.youtube.com/watc... (see around 0:32)
So yeah nothing to argue about there to be honest. Only reason why its disappointing is probably cause the screen is not big enough and thus when turning you still have to have your eyes looking straight ahead but the tech is there.

As far as your Eyetoy argument, Eyetoy when using the "lean around corners" used 25% of the PS2's power and that's why it didn't have any hybrid games. As far as PS Eye, there's been just a disappointing push from Sony that's all. Now that PS Move has come into more household, the user base is bigger and the publishers can make a push for such applications and get a return on their investment. So yeah there's a very LARGE difference from a business perspective, and its at the business department were the decisions get made.

+ Show (9) more repliesLast reply 5561d ago
RedDead5562d ago

So with this, I can peak around corners,duck down, etc by moving my head? Pretty damn good.

Theodore875562d ago

everyone forgot Echocrhome 2!

kissmeimgreek5563d ago

Really cool. I could see some games coming out that really uses this tech.

Also, I think theres an app on The Nintendo DSi that does something similar to this with its camera.

awiseman5563d ago Show
5563d ago Replies(2)
Show all comments (58)
20°

Joy Ride Turbo - The Beginning of the End for Xbox Kinect

Joy Ride Turbo launched 10 years ago today. The first title was Xbox Kinect exclusive, yet this sequel failed to support the device at all.

300°

10 of the Biggest Video Game Hardware Failures Ever

Cultured Vultures: "Sadly, not all hardware is created equal, and no matter how much developers might try, some gaming hardware just fails to hit the mark. We’ve compiled a list of 10 gaming hardware fails, and boy did some fail hard."

Read Full Story >>
culturedvultures.com
Knightofelemia1496d ago

I would label the Power Glove, Kinect, and that Tony Hawk skateboard more as hardware addons hardware failure would be like the Virtual Boy and one day Stadia.

Magog1496d ago

Kinect was bundled with every Xbox One and inflated the price on an already underpowered and low RAM machine so for the One it wasn't an accessory as much as a white elephant.

CaptainHenry9161496d ago (Edited 1496d ago )

Definitely the RROD but that power glove had a lot of issues as well. The Kinect just didn't work

1496d ago
CrimsonWing691496d ago

Hardware add-ons are more like RAM or a video card, basically components that enhance capabilities or performance of the computer.

If you really want to get technical the Kinect is more of a peripheral device, kind of like a keyboard or mouse to a computer.

ThatsGaming1496d ago

The person in this article obviously is not up on their gaming history....

Sega Saturn, Sega Dreamcast, Coleco Gemini, Commodore 128, Commodore Amiga, Atari 5200, Atari 7800 were all massive failures and in most cases cost their companies participating in future gaming generations.

Gamer791496d ago

Sega saturn (successful in Japan) and dreamcast were not failures.
Seems like you're not up on you're gaming history

septemberindecember1495d ago

@Gamer79

How in the world are the Sega Saturn and Dreamcast not seen as failures? They both sold around 8M each, which is much lower than the ~30M that the Genesis had sold before it, and even the Master System before that. They were both the worst selling consoles in their respective generation (PS1, N64 outsold Saturn, PS2, GC, and Xbox outsold Dreamcast). Both of the consoles were incredibly short lived. The Saturn was discontinued in every territory but Japan after just three years. In Japan the console was discontinued after six years. Meanwhile the Dreamcast was discontinued worldwide in 2001 after launching in most territories in 1999 and in Japan in 1998. The failure of the Saturn and Dreamcast lead to Sega pulling out of the hardware market. Which, by the way, all of this occurred when Sega was massively dropping the price of their consoles quickly to compete. Sega was hemorrhaging money at this point.

None of this indicates a successful console. Saying the Saturn was a success because it did better in Japan is like saying the Vita is a success (they both sold around the same amount of units in Japan). Even the Wii U outsold these consoles worldwide.

Magog1496d ago

The picture should be the 360 RROD. When I think of gaming hardware failures that's what springs to mind. Kinect and it's bundled price tag definitely hobbled the already underpowered Xbox One though for sure so I would give it a close second place.

porkChop1496d ago (Edited 1496d ago )

That's not what the author means by failures. It's about hardware that failed in terms of sales (Wii U) or just failed to deliver on its promise (Kinect).

Magog1496d ago (Edited 1496d ago )

Given that the 360 had a year head start, much easier hardware to develop for, was cheaper, and still ended up in third place I think it qualifies especially when you factor in the frustration and huge losses incurred by RROD.

porkChop1495d ago

Selling over 80 million consoles isn't a sales flop. We get it, you don't like Xbox, but that doesn't mean the 360 is suddenly a failure.

Rhythmattic1495d ago

Porky....
You know how many people I know bought a 2nd or third 360 due to RROD? Even when MS had to confront the issue with replacement systems, my mates couldn't wait for even the turnaround of sending it in, and waiting for a replacement.,,..,..
If that's how you consider it a win... OK.. but so is having 5 , of which 3 don't function.... Its a win win....mwhahahahaha

porkChop1495d ago

"my mates couldn't wait for even the turnaround of sending it in"

You're acting like it would take months. When I sent my 360 in I got a new one literally 5 days later. As soon as MS had tracking confirmation that you sent yours, they'd send a new one to you the same day. No one is going to spend hundreds to buy a new console instead of waiting a week. I swear you guys pull some of the dumbest shit out of nowhere and think people will actually believe it.

Regardless, none of this changes the fact that this isn't what the article is even about.

Rhythmattic1494d ago (Edited 1494d ago )

Porky
"You're acting like it would take months"
Sometimes it could.. FFS.. 'Strya here...
Best turnaround I reckon was 2-3 weeks.....
Either way, My mates experiences still exist.. So Sorry, no point trying to earn Xbox Achievements when it doesn't feature in what was a situation you never dealt with,,,,
3 of my friends would disagree (overall, 10 extra Xboxes purchased)
Regardless.. MS sold a lot of 360's that was due to this reason.. That is sales. Fact

"none of this changes the fact that this isn't what the article is even about."
Headline says HELLO !
Oh and "Sadly, not all hardware is created equal," that's enough to pass this on without taking your article bias into consideration.....
As for the rest.... Ok.. But you've actually gone out of your way to give MS a Pass... Fap on.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 1494d ago
Aloymetal1496d ago (Edited 1496d ago )

Yup, and because of that big fiasco MS had to fork out 1 billion but knowing them I think they're very proud of the 360, it's the only time a MS console reached 80mil+ sales, RROD played a big part of that and a record they will never break again.

Rhythmattic1495d ago (Edited 1495d ago )

So true.. Even when MS accepted they where caught out in the biggest lie of any generation, The wait for a replacement was outweighed by just buying another, and having one be returned as a backup, which, btw, generally failed on first swap.
I own honestly can't believe MS tards are just supporting , or arguing why and what MS did by just dismissing it....

lonewolf101496d ago

Lol I had the Atari Jaguar, surprised its "competition" the 3DO isn't on the list too, both as "popular" as each other.

SullysCigar1496d ago

Lol same. Played the crap out of Aliens Vs Predator and Tempest 2000 .... aaand that's about it really!!

lonewolf101496d ago

Sad but true that was pretty much it.

Kurt Russell1496d ago

Agreed, I never actually saw a 3DO make it to retailers in the UK. At least the Atari Jaguar was sold for around 6 months.

lonewolf101496d ago

It made it to some my brother got one, fared just as well as the Jaguar so most probably hard to find in general.

darthv721496d ago

3do had way better games. Jaguar not so much. Neo Geo sold less than both and yet isnt considered a failure. Go figure.

LWOGaming1496d ago

Stadia is a weird one. It hasn’t sold at all well but in terms of how it works it’s still miles ahead of Xcloud in terms of stability and performance. Xcloud is still a way behind and that needs sorting but it will be in time. Stadia for me is one of those things that will go down as a what could have been moments. With better marketing it could have been a roaring success. I still play it and it remains the best place in my opinion to play CyberPunk 2077. Only platform I have played it on without having any issues at all. The tech is great. The concept is fine. Marketing terrible. Shame really.

Magog1496d ago

The sales model was awful. They should have teamed with an existing player to allow for local and cloud access to games or a gaming subscription service.

LWOGaming1496d ago

It was a strange mess from such a huge company, as I said, as a system it works really well but without gamers it’s nothing. Such a waste,

LWOGaming1496d ago

The Xbox One was Microsoft’s Nintendo Wii U. Undercooked, undersold and just an unholy mess. The thing is with any of these failures is to learn from them and thankfully both Nintendo and Xbox did just that to the benefit of gamers everywhere.

Show all comments (39)
120°

Pivotal Decisions in Gaming History - Xbox Goes All-In on Kinect

Xbox 360's Kinect had flopped yet Microsoft insisted on mandatory Kinect for Xbox One, driving the price up and alienating their potential customers.

Read Full Story >>
techstomper.com
darthv721673d ago

the tech was pretty damn good but their focus on making it the centerpiece was not. Had they opted to keep it as a secondary or even tertiary device, it may have found new use for AR/VR.

PrimeVinister1673d ago

Maybe. But they were two early for VR and too late for motion control

1673d ago Replies(2)
Godmars2901673d ago

Their focus was marketing metrics. Information gathering for targeted advertising. Also "event curating" or head counting for special TV events. If MS had had their way with always online and mandatory Kinect pre COVID, as and during it they'd likely be turning into dominant presence in many Western homes. Be getting subsidized by Disney and other streamers as well as the NFL.

Thing was, Kinect as an actual game system, its games, just weren't ready. MS moved on it too soon. Thankfully.

Atticus_finch1672d ago

Sorry but it was incredibly bad for gaming. The thing barely worked as intended and the games were broken shovelware. And let's not forget all the lies from Xbox to try and sell it. What happened to Milo?
It's like Xbox it's a perpetual lying machine.

PrimeVinister1672d ago

I had almost forgotten about Milo. It looks so unbelievable in retrospect. How did anyone believe it?!

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 1672d ago
TheEnigma3131673d ago

Kinect requirement, TV focused, DRM, and $100 buried Xbone before it even stared.

PrimeVinister1673d ago (Edited 1672d ago )

I think Kinect was the worst of the bunch. They reversed DRM overnight and try to play down the TV stuff when they realised it made them look disinterested in gaming.

Kinect stuck around for six months, preventing sales and making more and more people upset when they dropped the Kinect and the price.

Atticus_finch1672d ago

Don't forget the inferior hardware which affects their game development to this day.
And the constant boasting and lying that hasn't change very much to this day.

kayoss1672d ago

I was kind of excited for the kinect. It had potential. That was until i tried it at one of their Microsoft store. The thing was so laggy and worker who was there, had no clue what he was doing. It kind of made rethink about buying an Xbox One with Kinect.

PrimeVinister1672d ago

I had already been turned off of the idea by Kinect for 360. Even when it worked, the games were bad and showed no potential.

Wii made you understand what they were going to do with it within about 10 seconds of Wii Sports. It went on to become a bit of a joke but at least it worked and had a purpose.

Thundercat771672d ago

The damage to the Xbox brand was so hard that til this day they are just the last place brand in the market.

PrimeVinister1672d ago

Totally. They haven't been really all that relevant since.

Godmars2901672d ago

That has to do with repeatedly failing, having to reaffirm only to again fail at creating a competent flow of decent games.

@PrimeVinister:
Until Game Pass and BC are mentioned. Only for the point to be missed.

kayoss1672d ago

thats because they dont know what they want to be. A gaming console, Television, or a gaming service?

Godmars2901672d ago

@kayoss:
They wanted, expected, to be Steam. To have everyone coming to them and paying for the privilege. That's the exact mentality on display when they tried to push always online.

brewin1672d ago

Its sad because the Xbox one version of Kinect was actually pretty solid. Not for motion games, I couldnt care less about those, but for the other features that are now commonplace in the gaming ecosystem. Things like voice control and optional motion features in games. Stuff that Sony did with the PS camera was pretty sweet and they could have done some of that stuff with Kinect.

The tech was pretty sweet when implemented right though. Who remembers the implementation in Dead Rising 3?! You could lure zombies away by saying stuff into the kinect, it was a bit hokey at first, but it actually enhanced the game significantly once you learned all the different voice commands. There was and still is nothing else like that!

The focus on TV seemed to be an issue for people, but the TV pass through had some real potential. They could have had cable companies giving the XBone out instead of cable boxes! I understood what they were trying to do, but they needed to show the games too, and thats where they lost the core gamers. Being able to jump right to a sports event or TV show with out leaving the console was actually a pretty cool thing. I spent many nights switching between NHL games or TV shows and jumping right back into my games seamlessly, just by telling Kinect to do so. It was better than people care to admit, but I loved it!

People say XBone had no games, but on launch I got Dead Rising 3, AC Black Flag, Watch Dogs, Killer Instinct, Battlefield 4, Forza 5, and Ryse. That was actually a pretty solid lineup in hindsight! Then later on it got gems like Quantum Break, Dead Rising 4, Sunset Overdrive, Gears 4 and 5, the Ori games, Rare Replay, Forza Horizon 3/4, State of Decay 2, ReCore (SUPER UNDERRATED GEM), Halo 5, Halo Wars 2, and all the great 3rd party stuff as well! I dare anyone who sat on the Xbox One to go back and give it a shot now.

It was actually a pretty great console all things considered. Yes the PS4 had better 1st party stuff, stuff that MS just couldnt top or even compete with, but there are some really great games that a lot of people missed out on that they would probably really enjoy if they actually played them. Thats why I recommend a Series S and Gamepass to a lot of people, as its a great way to get an awesome lineup pf games for super cheap!

Show all comments (22)