Achievements vs. Trophies

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MinskyM5684d ago (Edited 5684d ago )

There is a fundamental difference between the two:

One was designed by bean counters
One was designed by gamers

Everyone knows that Microsoft copied Sony and Insomniacs Skill Point system and renamed them "Achievements".

http://www.darkspyro.net/ye...

"You've earned a Skill Point"
became
"You've unlocked an Achievement"

Microsoft saw Sony's Skill Point system as way to pump up their attach rate and get Xbox owners to buy junk and shovelware games just to pump up their pointless gamerscore.

They never really grasped the concept for Skill Points. They were a way for gamers to get even more out of the game and be rewarded for their extra work.

It shouldn't be surprising that Sony got things right with their Trophy system since they are the ones who originally came up with the concept. At a glance you can get an instant idea of what type of gamer a person is from their Trophies:

* They have Platniums - serious gamers who has the skill to take on everything a game throws at them

* They have some Golds and Silvers - standard gamer with good skills but either not elite

* They have only Bronze - nibbler gamer who doesn't ever complete games

People don't buy junk games on the PS3 to pump up their Trophies because no one cares that you got a Plat in Barbies Horse Adventures because it doesn't get lumped into some silly and pointless gamerscore.

It is rumored that Microsoft is working on copying Sony's Trophy system but I don't think it will really matter much now that Microsoft seems to be entirely focused on chasing soccer moms with casual games.

Sony absolutely nailed it with Trophies, but I think they could be a few tweaks to make them perfect:

* Making sure companies don't throw in random silly Trophies for single player games that require for controllers or a single multiplayer Trophy.

* Possibly having separate online and single player Platinum trophies. Many people play single player games that have an online component but don't have the time or will to put in the insane hours online Trophies require.

* Auto syncing would be nice but not really a big deal

Nitrowolf25684d ago (Edited 5684d ago )

. They have always had some sort of way to unlock a special emblem or something, i remember is some ps1 games always trying to get every single title or something for a game for doing something specific.

All what MS did was take that idea and actually implement it into the console themselves rather then the game. It's like M.A.G. they have in-game achievements and some don't even correspond with trophies.

Anyway here i thought this would be an article that goes in depth and describes each pro and con, only to find that the author is saying they are the same although he prefers achievements ( have no issue with that)and that MS came out first with them and redefined the way gaming is.

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SmokexFFx5684d ago (Edited 5684d ago )

@MinskyM

There is a big difference between unlocking points in a single game and being able to unlock achievements in every game on your console plus being able to show them off to your friends and others on XBL. And then there is Avatar awards on top of that which you can unlock.

"Microsoft saw Sony's Skill Point system as way to pump up their attach rate and get Xbox owners to buy junk and shovelware games just to pump up their pointless gamerscore."

I guess Valve and Sony saw it as a way to get users to buy junk too because there trophies/achievements don't reward anyone with anything either.

* Platnums are then same as completed games on Xbox

* Gold Silvers and Bronze trophies are the same as 5,10,15,20,25,50,100 G score achievements on 360.

"People don't buy junk games on the PS3 to pump up their Trophies because no one cares that you got a Plat in Barbies Horse Adventures because it doesn't get lumped into some silly and pointless gamerscore."

Actually trophies do get lumped into something, and that is your trophy level. Also if you watched the Tester season 1 you would have heard the Cyrus(the winner) played pointless games to boost his trophy level, he uses Hanna Montana as an example.

"Sony absolutely nailed it with Trophies, but I think they could be a few tweaks to make them perfect:"

I got one to add to your list, *Work on getting all old games support with trophies, there are still many games not trophy compatable where on the 360 every game has achievements.

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will115684d ago

I like trophies better because it has Platinum. 360 doesn't have that.

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-Alpha5684d ago (Edited 5684d ago )

Minsky loves to go out of his way to prove that MS stole Achievements from Sony.

Yet he fails to realize that making gamers do optional challenges for fun is not a new concept, and it certainly has existed before Spyro games. Additionally Insomniac made Spyro, not Sony. But he HAS to use Sony because it's the only way to support his underlying motive to discredit the 360 at every point while making Sony seem like the real leaders. Sorry, but you not only misunderstand the difference but also are misguided to prove something that is not true.

Minsky, why are you trying to convince yourself that Sony created the Trophy system before MS? The Achievement system's purpose was to universalize a standard of challenges to earn Gamer Points for online profiles. Insomniac's purpose (not Sony's) was to create a list of challenges to complete in that one game for fun.

On top of this, if you really think MS copied this then Sony surely must have copied Trophies from games like TimeSplitters:

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

By your logic, since Spyro has a similar system, MS surely copied it, right?

If you honestly think that MS stole it from Sony then you are simply lying to yourself. Your proof is very weak and merely makes a correlation, not a direct relation.

The Achievements/Trophy system is a natural evolution to individual games that have their own system. MS didn't "Steal" the idea, and Sony certainly didn't create it first.

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Convas5684d ago

MinskyM sounds a bit sore in the nether region ...

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MeatPopsicle5684d ago (Edited 5684d ago )

I don't know what the hell Microsoft was thinking with the idiotic gamerscore.

Honestly, did they really think gamers would sit around talking about who has the bigger number?

I don't think people really care that Microsoft ripped off Sony or Insomniac's Skill Points. It is that they did such horrible job at it and really seem to failed to grasp the concept and instead saw it as simply something to help up their attach rates.

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HydraxFFx5684d ago (Edited 5684d ago )

@will11

Read pls.
* Platnums are then same as completed games on Xbox

At the time I got the name wrong, it's achievement progress, any how it tracks games you have fully completed. Just like a platinum would.

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Prototype5684d ago

I miss gaming BEFORE trophies/achievements

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-Alpha5684d ago (Edited 5684d ago )

@Meat

"Honestly, did they really think gamers would sit around talking about who has the bigger number?"

It's amazing how you and Minsky are always around when it comes to these Achievement articles. I love how you both use the same exact wording too. You both try to make such childish accusations about Achievements, yet somehow, they don't apply to Trophies. You clearly don't have a double standard here /s

Only people like you would take a fun idea like achievements and try to spin it into something like "MS tries to enslave people to buy bad game" or in your words "drive up attach rates" And how isn't this applicable to Trophies?

Achievements did what they were meant to do: create a competitive way of keeping track of who plays what games and how friends are doing in challenges. I see it as a friendly game of competition, yet you guys spin it to make it sound like MS is trying to force people to buy bad games.

"I don't think people really care that Microsoft ripped off Sony or Insomniac's Skill Points"

Because they didn't. Even if they did get the idea from Spyro it wasn't a rip off considering they evolved the concept. You once again show your blatant agenda to simply discredit MS just because they are MS.

"It is that they did such horrible job at it and really seem to failed to grasp the concept and instead saw it as simply something to help up their attach rates"

Again with the no-proof conspiracies and mindless biased over-criticism.

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ExplosionSauce5684d ago (Edited 5684d ago )

360 Achievements result in a Gamerscore, which is an accumulation of points, aka numbers. Each Achievement has a different amount of points depending on difficulty.

PS3 Trophies result in a Gamer level, which is the main reason why some consider them more "game-like" or "RPG-like". Each Trophy is ranked by bronze, silver or gold. A platinum Trophy is awarded upon completion of a game and all of its trophies(these have the biggest percentage boost on the Gamer level.

Those are the differences.
Stay on topic and some people may learn.

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OSU_Gamer5684d ago (Edited 5684d ago )

Minsky, meatpopsicle, and the people who agreed with them give PS3 gamers a bad name.

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Dsnyder5684d ago

Difference? A level up system+platinum which therefore makes it better.

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DigitalAnalog5684d ago (Edited 5684d ago )

"By the time Sony pushed Trophies live in July 2008, my gamerscore had a two-and-a-half year head start. No way would my Trophy count ever catch up, so why bother?"

So that's why he doesn't like collecting trophies? It's all about the numbers isn't it.

The reason why I collect trophies is because a budgeted gamer like me who can't afford a lot of games can at least extend the value of my game without pointless repetition (back then you had a rocket launcher if you finished a game in below a certain time) especially when I'm usually a single-player gamer.

-End statement

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kneon5684d ago

Basically he has self esteem issues. Because he's too far behind on trophies he would rather not compare them with others as it make him look bad, so he declares that he doesn't care about trophies. That's a pretty immature attitude.

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MariaHelFutura5684d ago (Edited 5684d ago )

Whores vs. Whores......Round 1.......FIGHT!

Convas5684d ago

There's a difference between whores and completionists. You best learn the definitions.

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MariaHelFutura5684d ago (Edited 5684d ago )

I`ve seen the light. I`ve reflected and I`ve learned. I must be imagining all the games I completed before this gen. Sorry.

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Convas5684d ago

As if you're the only person in the world who completed games before the advent of Trophies and Achievements. Again, you best learn the definition of a completionist.

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MariaHelFutura5684d ago

My left eye is closed for you. Teach me.

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Convas5684d ago

Close the other one too. Learning must take place by reflection and repetition. Simply looking upon the subject matter is not enough.

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Rocket Sauce5684d ago (Edited 5684d ago )

That's right - whores get paid.

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MariaHelFutura5684d ago

Completionists VS. Whores.......Round 1......FIGHT!

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bearsfaan5684d ago

I'm totally with the author on this one. I don't have anything against trophies, it's just that I've invested so much time in achievements I have no desire to do it on another system.

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multipayer5684d ago

I wonder if achievements/trophies will even last into next gen or will they decide it needs a fresh coat of paint and make a new ranking system. Something to entice new customers to get involved on an equal playing field...

ikkeweer5684d ago

lol, if they did that, they'd piss off alot of whores(as mariaH put it so eloquently).
I'd actually be a littlebit pissed aswell. Whats the point of all my trophies/achievements if i loose my bragging rights?

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wicko5684d ago

That's exactly it, you invest time on one system, so you don't care about the other. I've invested a lot of time on trophies and I honestly couldn't care less about achievements. But also, I prefer the leveling system that Sony uses as opposed to the total points system MS uses. And I prefer the idea of platinums as well. In the end, they are pretty much the same thing.

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Xander7565684d ago

Achievements are better than trophies because they are more specifically tailored to things. It's different saying you have a bronze trophy for something than 50 gamerscore for it. A bronze could mean anything, the 50 is an actual quantifiable score.

chrisco84au5684d ago

No
You do the exact same thing to get the trophy/gamerscore points. Therefore nothing is tailored for gamerscore points.
What a stupid thing to try and say.
Just enjoy your console of choice instead of having the need to pointlessly defend it.

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Fishy Fingers5684d ago (Edited 5684d ago )

Sweet... http://n4g.com/news/641220/...

First "Trophies Reflect Skill More Than Achievements"^^ now in retaliation (?) a Achievement > Trophy piece. Both, like steam achievements, are pretty pointless.

High scores for the new age that promote performing mundane tasks rather than displaying an actually measure of "skill".

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Koromaro5684d ago

Both are the same, so shut up and go play. What's next Which ethernet plug is better? The one on the PS3 or 360

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HydraxFFx5684d ago

No, but if you want we can talk about which console's wi-fi is better, where the 360 would win again.

BeOneWithTheGun5684d ago

We could talk about which has the better DVD play back. DVD or BluRay? Point to ponder.

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Bell Boy5684d ago

ok lets go with hard drive next...hows that 4gb going...my psp as bigger..lol

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HydraxFFx5684d ago (Edited 5684d ago )

@Bell Boy
If you want a bigger hard drive there's always the option to upgrade or just buy a 360 with a bigger one in it in the first place.

@BeOneWithTheGun
Wouldn't DVD be better at "DVD" playback? I think you mean which has more storage space.

Anyways...keeping with the trend lets talk about backwards compataility.

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wissam5684d ago

I think the Blackbeard would have to disagree
with you.lol.

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roguewarrior5684d ago

Xbox 360 10/100 and PS3 is 10/100/1000, from what I remember?( up to ELITE don't know about the 360s)

chrisco84au5684d ago

@Hydra
Fanboy much?

HydraxFFx5684d ago

@chrisco84au
You replied in the wrong spot.
No just harmless fun.

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Mr2Good35684d ago

dude this article was clearly made by a fan boy. The article is even green. they both are nice, and they make replay value higher. This article ended up being flame bait.

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clintos595684d ago

U may kill me with a rocket launcher but only noobz use power weapons to get their kills. I am the type that will use the weapon everyone dislikes and make it just as deadly with alot of practice. For example in UC2 the sniper is a gun campers like to use, im the type that will run around and look for u & use it like a pistol & believe me, guys are always like damn u sick wit it, but I just stay humble because deep inside I know im good but that is how u know a person got mad skills. Of course there are many other ways of showcasing skills in gaming because of all the different types of games but that would be a novel for me to write if I were to explain every skill type.

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UNLOADEAD5684d ago (Edited 5684d ago )

I collect Achievements and Trophies. They feel like the same thing to me. I just like collecting all of em so i either have a 100% or 1000 In the Game and having the game completed, Even though i can still do alot more in the game even if i have all the achievements/trophies. I also dont like to complete Easy games just for some achievements or trophys "hanna montana, Avatar last airbender". But This article is retarded cause the author seriously only wrote it cause he/she saw the article earlier on N4G Saying "why trophys reflect more skill than achievements". Nothing but A fanboy wrote both these articles. Theres literally No difference in achievements / trophies. There just some more incentive to play.

nevin15684d ago

This whole system came from Madden/Live games where you task/challenges and get a reward.

The diffrence is that you can compare them with online friends.

Servbot5684d ago

The fact of the matter is, there's no difference between the two except for a psychological devotion to whatever console you align yourself with. I have no respect for anybody who tries to claim one is better than the other. In fact, these little award systems are more of a curse than anything. I have several friends who played through the Hannah Montana game to get easy trophies/achievements.

wedgie5684d ago (Edited 5684d ago )

They really don't differ from one another. Whoever started it, good for them, but the systems for each works well. Hopefully it does not affect the games people play, but as you said Servbot, it obviously does. I bet that Hannah Montana game was totally worth it.

The thing for Microsoft and Sony is that, if they carry over gamerscore and trophies into the next generation, then that will snare a lot of returning fanbase, because people will want to continue to expand their epeens from the last generation.

However, if people make game or console choices based on achievements or trophies, then I lost respect for you. Of all of the parameters that matter in the console war, this should be inconsequential. You go with a system for different, more important reasons. And I know I don't want to waste or spend time on crappy games just to expand this. Only other people who don't care about your score are going to see it anyway.

PRHB HYBRiiD5684d ago

i like the achievements cause of the avatar awards...but having a platinum it really feels like u have accomplished something and u have that right there to prove it.

Megaman42xX5684d ago (Edited 5684d ago )

My problem with platinums though is when it comes to dlc they're not retroactive. My brother platinumed Uncharted 2 but then dlc came out. He still has the platinum but not all of the trophies.

On the 360 you can view all the games you have maxed out. If dlc comes out and more achievements are added to a game then they take that game off the list. The only problem is that it doesn't really show friends stats like that, only your own.

And I do love the unlockables as useless as they are. Perfect Dark (the remake) had 3, a theme, an Elvis plushie, and an avatar t-shirt. Useless, but I like em anyway.

GigaGaia5684d ago

So much more rewarding to have some shiny trophies then some lame useless points.

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ALFAxD_CENTAURO5684d ago (Edited 5684d ago )

The Trophies are more organized, using Levels.

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chazjamie5684d ago

i wish something would happen after the platinum trophy. Its takes hours, and is really hard to get. That little notification in the corner is so anti-climatic.

Something more celebratory would suffice: an implementation of the games protagonist or a key theme of the video game taken on an animation of some sort. Anything will do, since what I feel afterwards is anything but accomplishment. I suppose the journey is more important because I enjoyed acquiring the fallout 3 platinum trophy.

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Paradise Lost5684d ago

I like the trophy system more, I like that trophies have different categories like bronze,silver,gold and platinum and having levels which could get pretty competitive with alot of people!

GLoRyKnoT5684d ago (Edited 5684d ago )

Nothing can compete w/ that glorious trophy sound! blinggg!

Trophy percentage decreases a lot at level 12
levels 6 - 11 require 2000 and level 12+ requires 8,000 points
So in order to gain a percentage on level 12 you will need
6 bronze or 3 silver to get to 1.125% while at level 6 get any of those increased the percentage by 4.5% which is a big difference.

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wissam5684d ago

Trophies are better imo. They reminds me in GT games.

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Dark-Cloud5684d ago (Edited 5684d ago )

this is stupid , they shouldn't put trophies or achievments in consoles , it take aways all the fun , even i can't lpay without trophies now , i always look at the trophies when i buy the game but i don't do them , playing ps1 and 2 was alot more fun then now because we were playing games for fun not for trophies to show that i get alots of trophies ...

when i create a new account alots of people ask me why did i created a new account ? i told them i always wanted the name in the new account , so they asked me again " whatabout the trophies !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! " i told them i don't care about trophies so they said you are crazy !! .... XD .. you see , they call me crazy because i didn't care about the trophies >.< .......

at first when they said they will put trophies in the games i get excited but now i know that it takes all the fun.........

i noticed that i lost a bubble -.- ... i hate this stupid idea !!!!!! opinion isn't allowed in this site ?!!.. they put stupid articals and they say to us don't put usless comments and give them a good comment .. this site is ridiculous ....

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gillri5684d ago (Edited 5684d ago )

@ darkcloud

I completely agree, reophies and achievement are just a waste of time

I used to be an achievement whore but I realised it in alot of cases can ruin the immersion of a SP game, and I just find whole process frustrating.

sitting down with your labtop or printed webpage and constantly switching between that and your console, repeating actions you wouldnt normally take over and over again. Why!?

I havent even looked at my trophies yet, not once,

with the insane amount of games being released these days. I'd prefer to move on with the next game thank you very much

lost25684d ago

anyway the only thing i hate about trophies is that manual sync every time i play a game

Aloren5684d ago

*check achievements list for a random game*
*check trophies list for the same game*

OK, that's what I thought... same thing.

Just a matter of preference then... you either prefer to accumulate 1000G for your game, or you prefer to get an additional trophy just cause you got all the others.

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BlmThug5684d ago

So Many PS3 Fanboys On N4G

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wissam5683d ago

It used to be the biggest x360 fanboys nest.
times are changing.

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ArtSword5683d ago

Being a part of the Playstation Rewards Beta, I think that Trophies will have something to do with your reward level. So trophies implemented with a TRUE reward in the end, leading up to a real benefit like a free game download, or prizes, etc. Will have a much greater impact on gaming than some random number for playing God knows what in a Gamerscore.

Bounkass5683d ago

Always the same damn wars, over and over and over... Wtf?

Can't we just get along? They both have their pro's and cons... So fucking what? I wish they banned these kind of wars...

ChronoJoe5683d ago

Achievements are better - because all 360 games actually have achievement support.

However in terms of the system itself, trophies are of course better because of the platinum, how the unlockables denote to your level in a metagame.

It could be a lot better though. PS3 should have a title/gamercard system where you can unlock titles and new cards for your gamercard thing (or PSN card, whatever you want to call it). It'd be cool to unlock something each time you level up. In my opinion anyway.

bobrea5683d ago

I prefer trophies simply because I like they way they are organized better. They are essentially the same thing and arguing over which is "better" is a waste of time.