Are there still any choke points?

In Killzone 2 you always get 2-3 choke points were everyone runs to fight with about 5 people from each side on each point it adds up to 20 grenades and a big mess.

I can't see any choke points in the BETA maps from the videos but to the people who played it and played Killzone 2 did they fix that?

The only thing that really frustrated me about KZ2 was the accuracy of the guns. Maybe it was just me, but when I look down the sights I expect my accuracy to increase ever-so-slightly. For the most part, I ended up just burst firing from the hip.

@raz

The funny thing with controls is that in K2, if you so much as critiqued the controls you were labeled a COD fan.

Now that the controls are so much different, GG is just "doing the right thing"

The core gameplay is a 180. It doesn't feel anything like K2 aside from the graphics and feel. Maybe people like this, but you couldn't at all say this back when K2 was out, and people would tell you why K2 was so great while shutting out the criticisms that K3 seemed to have listened to.

Anyways, I hate the lower health, the lack of recoil, and the lack of weight.

The game needs a little beefier recoil and feel to it, and the health rewards more body kills than headshots.

I don't know how you could be satisfied with the lower health if you were such a big K2 player, it feeds to the COD mentality where fast movement and fast kills are the part of the gameplay. I love COD, I just don't think K3 should be like it. And there are major COD influences that you can't deny. Sure it doesn't look like COD, but the major staples of K2 are more like COD in K3.

K2 had some annoying flaws in terms of controls and chokepoints, but they were largely ironed out. I don't see why they decided to lower damage, recoil, etc.

I find it completely funny that the people who were so stubborn with K2 have suddenly gotten a major change of heart.

You can't expect the whole core to change and then say that this is a natural step in a sequel. I find that GG needs to tone down on the "accessible" approach.

There are some major issues and concerns I have with the game, and I just hope GG listens well. I've already gone into a lot of detail so I wont bother here, but I do think a lot of work needs to be done in terms of the core experience, as well as the supporting features

@alpha

I loved KZ2 weighty feel and I was saddened by the idea of the game loosing it. However when I play the beta I still can have fun with it, a lot of fun dare I say. I'm not getting stuck with KZ2, because it is clear to me GG wants to appeal more people than just a bunch of hardcores.

There is more to KZ than just weighty feel or controls. Which honestly made things a lot harder than should be to newcomers.

BTW, here is a video showing recoils of both games

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

There is recoil in KZ3, and more tweaking is in the way for the LMG, and perhaps the SMG.

Well see this is my complaint, and it's not directed at you but in general here:

People whine and complain about how COD is ruining gaming, how K2's controls were a matter of adapting, how K2 was unique in that sense, how appealing to casuals is the downfall of gaming, etc.

Then you have people that try to criticize games in favor of perhaps making a game like K2 more easier to control, and then they get blasted for being "COD fans"

Now GG takes K3, removes it of almost all the core essentials of K2 that people cheered for, listens to the "COD fans", and all of a sudden this is something the original people whining suddenly like.

It's like people will quickly evade pointing out the problems of a game if their game is attacked by siding with the devs.

It happens on here so much, and I can never take this community's opinion seriously. The Killzone forums is the perfect place for a much rounded debate over the issues.

"There is more to KZ than just weighty feel or controls. Which honestly made things a lot harder than should be to newcomers."

Yet the argument when K2 was around was that people should adapt. See the frustration? I've criticized many aspects of the beta and people act as if the game is already the best experience ever.

I'm so surprised at how people here don't seem to mention the new low health, the much faster playstyle, the ability to run and gun easily, etc.

I really have noticed so many problems and I'm so concerned for the game. The ribbon system is horrible, it shouldn't be in the game, the maps have balance issues in terms of size, design, and spawning, there is a lack of modes and guns that I question if GG will work on, etc.

People here just don't mention them, or brush them aside. I can't stand the one with the big turbine in the middle. The spawn system can lopside the game in that map, and I see nobody bringing this up except on the forums.

All of a sudden these new complainers are seen as the haters, except this time the tables have completely turned around. I'm just upset that people don't take the beta seriously enough to evaluate the actual game instead about talking about how it crushes Halo's graphics or talking about how nice it looks. That's all I've seen here

why are people saying they lost the 'weighty' feel in the controls? the 'weight' is still there, all they did was remove the input lag. this is a GOOD thing. 'weighty feel' does not equal input lag. games like Battlefield Bad Company and even Killzone 1 on the PS2 have the weighty controls without any input lag, and its much better than Killzone 2s unresponsive controls.

personally i like all the changes theyve made with Killzone 3, apart from all the things popping up on screen. makes it look too 'kiddy' with the big HEADSHOT popping up on screen and things like that.

still, now that theres no input lag its a day 1 purchase for me.

"People whine and complain about how COD is ruining gaming, how K2's controls were a matter of adapting, how K2 was unique in that sense, how appealing to casuals is the downfall of gaming, etc. "

Running out off bubbles so this will be my last.

Your above comment, ironically, holds very true. COD is ruining FPS. KZ2 with all its hardore setting failed to be the massive hit Sony wanted. People want accessible, cod - like experiences. The result, KZ3 gets more accessible, faster, with less health. It would be stupid honestly to make a game to satisfy a small group of dudes. KZ is supposed to be Sony flagship FPS not a niche game, with a very low fanbase playing online and buying mappacks.

BTW, KZ3 is not like COD. Get Armor/Health secondary skill and increase your health. In cod "first to see first to kill" law always holds. Not so much in KZ3. I dont mind either if GG increases health, but it doesnt make sense to make people bullet sponge again.

Talking about haters. I think the role somehow reversed. People that loved KZ2 seems to be having problem adapting to the third. They want the game to go back to the formula already proven to be a failure market wise. I fortunately have fun in KZ2 and KZ3, but if I had to choose I'd pick KZ3 gunfight. It feels like a very nice middle-ground, weighty enough not to feel like floating yet responsive.

Good answers. Sounds to me like the beta needs more tweaking and balancing, but that's what a beta is for anyway! Let's just hope GG balances it in a way that will make the finished product even better than KZ2, yet just as individual in the crowded FPS market (ie: please, PLEASE don't make it anything close to Modern Warfare--I realize many people love them, but I fucking hate those games. They can have their MW, just let me have my KZ!)

i actraully never use extra health or armour in the beta rather, i use extra ammo, u get tons of kills with mines, so why not exploit the feature LOL oh god the mines are soo cheap!

You just listed a few of my negative points about the beta as well. Based on the beta, KZ3 is an improvement, but it can stand some adjustment.

If the mines are as powerful as you say they are, GG better nerf them NOW.

Nothing I hate more in a mp FPS than god damn claymores. Such a cowardly and cheap weapon.

The mines aren't an issue. Only been killed a couple of times by them.

The Mechs ain't over powered if your on a good team. Just wish it was a little easier to snipe them (The window in the front could be bigger)

Well, I found kind of "OK" difficulty in destroying them.
If you just run towards them then you die instantly. But you can
- snipe driver across the map
- use C4, grenades
- unlock spawn point and use mortar strike-> very effective
- there are machine guns and swarming missiles (need to be repaired first) placed in the buildings
- turrents
- heavy machine gun does a lot of damage( if you can get behind)
- in full version there will be more players shooting at Exo, not just 2 vs Exo.

I'm not trying to say it is easy to destroy them ... just one has to play smart and hope that rest of your team does the same.

Also Exo adds another dimension to strategy of completing objectives. You actually have to consider how to neutralize exo first before you can try to complete objective.

Have you played the beta?

The new spawn system is completely broken. They took out custom games (including custom clan matches), they took out spawning on squad leaders, they took out temporary squads which means in order to be in a squad you either HAVE to play with friends or invite random people to your party.

People hated C4 in KZ2, they took off the flashing light, so now it's even harder to spot. Corinth Highway might as well be an armored core game because there are four exoskeletons that respawn as soon as one is destroyed. Making the map a constant mech fight. The airbots are way to strong, I've had one get a five kill streak in less than 5 seconds.

The maps aren't balanced. For instance on Turbine Concourse two of the spawn points are located in towers that can only be gotten to by jetpack. You want to take that spawn point? Have fun, it's impossible unless the other team is completely incompetent. The map basically ends up with one team either stuck in base spawn or a constant sniping match between both spawn towers. It's terrible.

On Frozen Dam, the middle spawn point is way to close to the ISA side which results in ISA almost always winning on that map.

On the beta forums the designers have already said spawn nades are not coming back, and neither are custom games. They did add more recoil, so everybody loved that. But instead of gun fights which made KZ2 so fun to play, your health levels are more at around CoD levels so you die too quick.

You need to stop taking the Cliffy B outlook, 'bigger is always better.' It's not. They have A LOT of fine tuning to do, and if I were them, I'd even consider redesigning some of these maps. And making a lot of tweaks regarding respawn times (for everything, not just dying), weapon recoil, weapon damage or health, melee damage (1 normal melee hit shouldn't kill me, makes brutal melee's pointless), level design, aim assist (way to high for KZ), and they NEED custom games. That's the only reason KZ2 was as popular as it was.

Deputydon, that sounds like a bitch, maybe it was Cod-ed up....you might get flamed now, just a warning. I'm surprised their hasn't been any articles if the changes are so big.

I've been playing KZ2 for about 200h now and I can also say that, judging by the videos, the game is pretty much a step backwards from KZ2.

Spawn grenades - they abandoned it because people were incapable of throwing them in the right places and that's what led to spawn camping and not being able to get out of your base.
Now if one team captures a tactical spawn and you don't control any, you're doomed and there's nothing you can do.

Weapons - almost every weapon was balanced perfectly giving it advantages over another one as some disadvantages. The recoil, the range, everything was great. Now there isn't any. You can shoot an enemy with an LMG over 100m which has no recoil at all. I mean, WTF?! It's the same with other weapons, unfortunately...

Server lists - the most important thing about this is that it gave people OPTIONS, and that's what they like to do - choose! With matchmaking now, there isn't anything you can choose. Everything is on and you can't customize the game to your liking.

Of course there are some things better than in KZ2, which are obviously the graphics and sound. They are awesome, breathtaking and astounding. 3D will be an awesome addition and Move also.

That all being said, if they get the weapons right, make some changes to the spawn system and improve matchmaking (a lot), we've got another blockbuster GOTY contender. If they don't get the MP right, I'm still looking forward to the SP (jungles, space!!!).

Sorry for the rant. :(

Edit:
PhoenixDevil and Deputydon nailed it. :)

"On the beta forums the designers have already said spawn nades are not coming back"

Awesome news. Spawn grenades were the absolute worst thing about Killzone 2, and made the game even more chaotic (not in a good way)than Call of Duty.

@shane, 2 full main games, 2 DLC add ons, 1 VR spin off game, oh and a an official LEGO set.
Not too bad for an ip that's only been on market for 6 years

nice

jukins

Most people who emulate don't get malware, you'd have to be going to some weird sites for that to happen, heck years ago people were getting sketchier ad's resulting in malware warning on this site if you didn't have a ad-blocker lol.

Can't get malware if you legally dump your own games, which you should.

That's fine if that's the main draw, but it doesn't make it a better experience, just a preference. Having the freedom to do the things you can do on PC is what the appeal of PC is. Buying a game on PC means you never have to worry about the console makers just deciding the next hardware shouldn't support the generation anymore, which means everything you bought is stuck on that hardware instead of moving up with everything else. Nintendo uses this tactic to keep reselling the same games over and over at inflated prices. Sony cut all previous gens off the PS4 and sold it back to people in a poor attempt with PSnow. While the PS5 supports PS4 games, that may not be the case in the next gen after this. No to mention shutting off all the previous stores and updates completely. Even MS stopped making new BC titles at some point, so now there's a big list with 17 pages of titles that are not playable on Xbone and are just trapped on older gen. That's not a problem on PC, the reverse happens where you only have to worry if your hardware can play the newest releases at ultra with no issue.