someone dumb it down for me,I mean what is it ?, will we be able to taste the sH!t now or something

4D?

ps3 already has cg graphics in realtime, so when graphics jump even furthen then use this trend, the next gen will TRUELY start

AIZEN SAMA

i just need some games.

4d could be pretty cool but mostly i just want some good games.

My arse is true 4D...

Do...does that mean new Ps3 Software containing 4d graphics will include

because they knew this when they rushed the 360 into production (dont tell me they did not, its an "HD" system that does not use "HD" Media, not even M4 branded HD-DVD's)
BUT! by the time 4d is "in" i think it would be time for the 360(2) as its already dated as hell...

Necrophilia :|

It's going to take alot of time b4 we see 4d graphics.

just put on some 3d glasses and duck pieces that come at you form the front, left, right and back.

Not the 4D graphics line of BS again!

Excuse me while I go and put a bullet thru my head!

Sony fangirls are so stupid and gullible. :o

i liked the sony advert at the end, wouldnt mind watching that in 1080p! anyway, yeah, pretty cool, in horror-esk games like RE and even role play games like oblivion this could really be something special! if it can be implimentated in real time, eg, 100 hours on oblivion = 100 hours aging to the environment (like the bathroom scene in the video) that opens up potential for some new game ideas i think!

oh and ps3 only...... sorry came over all fan boy for a second.... wooo

this "PS3-only 4D" bs is so fu(king old and lame. Its possible on any system with proper shaders existing since DX9 hardware(2003). Yep I might go ahead get a suicide mowdown from a Big Daddy now. Let me tell you what is PS3 only as far as consoles go by, large disc capacity to give devs ample space and Cell processor which helps a lot in the great looking postprocessing effects like in Killzone 2

[edit] so whos disagreeing and for what? well if you want believe some of the junk PSU puts out("Bioshock PS3 is surely in development and we will soon have news about it here") well go ahead.

It's not news and it has nothing to do with 360.
And, its irrelevant.
Children: its a freaking rendering algorithm.
Its not the *only* way to do graphics.
Its not even the most efficient way to do this stuff in a game anyway.

But when nature gives you lemons, you make lemonade and when Sony gives you SPUs you do floating point technology demos.

But technology demos are not games and promises of fancy algorithms doesn't sell consoles.
Sony, where are the games?
No games?
Then get out of here; don't waste my time until you have a playable game you wienies.

Is it just me or do anti-sony guys like bladestar and razer both find warhawk great?

Thats the best advertising for the game anyone could think up, "Even if you hate sony and have voodoo dolls of Jack Tretton, you'll love WARHAWK!"

edit: And yes you two do show some anti-sony bias, even though I've seen claims of neutrality. Never see you two ripping up 360 or wii articles.

ps3 has never been a console, its marketed as one, its sold in a console form, it has a console price, but the thing is its a supercomputer and some more, thats why it can do 4d, so please give up nonesense talk son

AIZEN SAMA

4D + PS3 = Game Over xbots

=]

ps3 has been out for less than a year and you say it has no games, you have no idea how dumb you sound right now son, go take a nap

AIZEN SAMA

The fourth dimension is time, it's pretty simple. You don't have to use all that crazy algorithems to show 4d. Let's look at Oblivion. If it is the middle of day, the ground will be bright, as time go by and the sun sets, the ground gets darker, BAM! 4d graphics. The ground showed a progression of time therefore a fourth dimension is added meaning it is 4d. There are all sorts of ways showing 4d. The method the guy explained in the article is a very complex way of showing a fourth dimension but it is not the only way. Games have been showing a fourth dimension since long ago. This is just another buzz word that Sony is throwing to wow the general public.

Frankly, I'm not about to believe all this 10-12 seconds and a full day of processing talk. Not trying to sound like a fanboy, but I'm definitely not taking a word of this in until there's another source(that's not a sony site) that PROVES no other console can do this.

It's as ridiculous as Ubisoft saying that the new Naruto game couldn't have been done on any other console other than the 360.

The fact is, these sites shouldn't go around writing these articles based on companies trying to curve the latest news in their direction. Has anyone tried 4D on 360 yet? No, So don't say it will take 10-12 seconds when there is no proof. Has Ubisoft tried to make Naruto for the PS3? No, because MS has the rights for the game, so why would they try. Everyone should stop arguing over hopes for the year 2009, and focus on what's going on now. Everyone always gets into such a frantic mood when things like this hit the net, but the fact is, it makes no difference to us. It's how hype machines start, and that's exactly why this information was released now.

If anyone thinks subtle differences like this are what will make or break games in the future, you are sorely mistaken. Imagine a future game review, "Ya, the controls were horrible, the camera was awful, but at one point a dog was eating a bone and it looked like his jaw muscles were actually moving... 10/10!!!!!"

"Reality" is something that can be played, not a demo on a high-end PC.

whoever said highend pc?

this says ps3, you would need some clusters of pcs to equal what ps3 can achieve, ps3=supercomputer and more, your gonna need about 8 pcs to pull off 4d, so it is only a reality for ps3, unless you have about 15 gs saved up

AIZEN SAMA

That's the lamest thing I ever heard. What next - 4D Virtual worlds to view your 5D Trophies and show off your 6D Telly to your 7D Mates in 3rd life .. I mean Home 9D

4d 1080p 120 fps on 2 teles im getting 1 tomorrow

@DaEnforcer - "4D + PS3 = Game Over xbots" hmm seems you forgot what Sony forgot about.. GAMES!!! I can say I have a million dollars but nobody gon' believe me if I don't have the "Monay".. talk all you want about 4d in games.. but till' there here and are actually good games, don't open your mouth.. please.

so heres something thats not important until atleast 2009 by then i looking forwaed to the next system

.

they should worry about putting out some good 3D games to be honest right now. Not a fanboy comment, but the ps3 has a serious lack of good games. Sure, 2008 may end up being good, but what about now?

With sony, its all about next year. every single year, you just wait for the nest one and they underachieve.

I never really understood the no games argument.

I own a PS3 and I have games I play constantly.

Resistance (I like the game, and I have gotten my moneys worth out of it.)
Oblivion (Got my moneys worth out of this too.)
Virtua Fighter 5
Motorstorm

I own 7 games on my PS3 not including downloads and I play them religiously.

I mean I like these games, throw in the fact I can go grab so many PS2 titles and let them tide me over, like Persona 3 and the like. I don't understand this argument. Yeah I know Warhawk and Swords aren't getting stellar reviews but I have a pretty full plate come September. I just don't get it.

i didnt see anything that the xbox wasnt capable of doing. :/

Okay I'm a pretty big sony fanboy but I just have to say, who really gives a damn? Why don't we wait until this stuff is really used to it's potential,then we can hold it over xbox's head Eh? It's nice to put it out there that ps3 can do this stuff but it's a little too early to REALLY get into.

marketing BS.

It's nice, sure... but I wouldn't call it 4D. Where's the fourth dimension? Time is not a dimension; it is more of a factor in the game. It's not an axis where you specify coordinates. It's just a marketing scheme, really, if you ask me...

So when is 5D coming Sony???

First bring some games before talking about new dimensions!

LOL Wow...so you mean time is the 4th dimension? you mean when a thing gets old in a game its the 4th dimension....
UH OH! they did the 4th dimension on SUPER MARIO 64!!! things got older, by growing bigger...

UH OH! the tub water drained in Resident evil...time passed by uh oh!
Looks like 4d graphics we're acomplished like...10 or more years old...looks to me like sony is promising crap, and delievering on it...What they talk about is no different from the capabilitiy in games before the ps3.

"28.3 - @SofaKing
Thanks for the reply, although it is very fanboyish. The article is saying that 4d graphics can't be shown on the 360. I'm saying that 4d is shown in games since long ago. Ground getting muddy and the sun setting is both 4d graphics, the one might be more advanced than the other but they are still both 4d graphics. 4D graphics can only be shown on the PS3 is FALSE. If not, explain why."

Nope, what you see on 360 is just scripted, this ain't 4D textures that react with time.

4D + PS3 = Game Over xbots =]

WHO FREAKIN CARES, IT'S A COOL ASPECT TO HAVE IN A GAME (AND I'M DOWN WITH IT), YOU XBOTS JUST WANT TO BEAT IT DOWN BECAUSE ITS NOT ON POSSIBLE ON THE 360.

"4D" graphics is such a misnomer for this type of thing. Yes, these are textures that are dynamic and change with time. But anything that shows movement or change through a 3D environment over time, even Mario Kart 64, could technically be called 4D.

.... and plz Sony bring over the 4D games soon. I want them.

procedural textures Gen wasn't a Cell Exclusive....
I belive QuakeWars:ET is using it..
creating them with a toolsuite called......
Err...Ummm..
MegaGen/MegaTexture Gen
but I'll spare everyone from the tech stuff hah....
you'll have to look it up your self.....

Sony ...just deliver us some great games and stop with the hype machine already. Stop showing tech demos and start delivering games. Thats all your fanbase wants...he games...not promises of tomorrow...but games for today.

is for example the upcoming mx vs. atv untamed game and its predecessors. A motocross track never remains stagnant, new lines develop and change every lap and the track slowly errodes and dries out over the course of a single race. In applications such as this the gameplay will be enhanced greatly by "4D" (or whatever you want to call it, its not a spacial dimension)

ps3 and its gimicks maeks me laugh.

was the silliest argument I've ever heard for the supposed technical superiority of the PS3

4D it is not possible
it is for next next gen

Take the Sims for example.With 4D you keep a plant in the sun(i.e.differnt plants)it grows in different ways (not scripted ways)You take it out the sun,it might grow,it might not.I could do SPORE all day.

Allegorithmic's ProFx procedural rendering package is actually a pretty slick technology and has, in fact, already appeared in games .. on the Xbox 360! Roboblitz is an arcade title that made use of this package to produce a visually impressive game within the size constraints of an XBLA title.

The claim that this is only possible on the PS3 is nonsense. In fact,
ProFx is part of Microsoft's XNA Tool Suite, so it is much more likely to be used in Xbox games rather than on the PS3. One very interesting capability of the technology is to encapsulate detailed textures into a small fraction of the customary storage size. So a more appropriate headline might have been "4D Graphics: Rendering Blu-Ray Unnecessary!"

How in the world is this going to enchance gameplay? Seriously. The focus on graphics is not what MOST gamers want. Gamers want interesting and immersive ways to interact with games. And that is mainly the reason why the DS and Wii are dominating.

I remember reading about this months ago , when its implemented In some thangs I'll be more interested.

But everyone already knew about this and how the PS3 will dominate from 2008 and beyond.

Is this actual news ~ I've seen all of this before and know first hand how AWESOME Motorostorm is. Thanks for the reminder, but...

Next.

I still dont understand what 4D graphics are. Do they mean like the Sims? Or Oblivion?

Well, I actually understand what they mean by "4D." It's not really 4D, just as 3D in games in not really 3D.

Theoretically speaking, 4D is the progression of time. If you could look at the third dimension from the 4th dimension, you would see it as one long block of a bunch of 3D dimension "frames" stacked together. So for example, we have a piece of iron exposed to air. If we watch that piece of metal from a 3D world, we would only see it rust, because we can only see one "frame" of 3D at a time. However, if we looked at it from the 4th dimension, we would see the whole stack of 3d frames from when the iron was new until it rusted.

Try to think of it like you were animating an object. To animate, you need several frames of animation right? When you put that animation together, you see the animation. Same thing. Time is like the program that animates the 3rd dimension to produce a 4th dimension. The 4th dimension is a bunch of 3D dimension "snapshots" ,if you will, all seperate from each other like the frames in an animation(for purposes of understanding). When the 3D dimensions are "animated" by time, you get the progression of time. For example 3d snap 1 could have a new piece of metal and 3d snap 10 could have the final rusted piece.When animated, you would see that metal rust (and the entire universe gradually change of course). It is obviously MUCH MUCH more complicated than that.

So essentially, what this "4D" for the PS3 is doing is that it is just emulating the effects of the 4th dimension on our world,which is the passage of time, i.e seeing something rust or seeing grass grow.

It's all emulation guys. It's not like you actually walk in the game with a plasma rifle. Same as it's not actually taking the 3D dimension and creating a line (or "block" since it is 3d) with it.

PM me if you need any more explanations!

Also by the way, as for what I think of 4D on the PS3, it's kind of unnecessary. I mean why take a game to 4D? It's a game. Besides, you can pretty much script a lot of stuff and still give off the same illusion.

i think its from gamespot or somewhere eles, i forgot the link, but they said africa uses the 4D, its in realy time with trees and everything moving at the same time, like everyhting in the graphics has its own movements, it is posible to make that effect in game but will take almost half a yr just to make something move natural and alive, without the 4D program

to hype 4-D by Sony. Believe if you must

It just seems that the power of the PS3 is becoming more and more apparent, this is really a Amazing piece of hardware, I was already fascinated at the processing power and how the system could do parallel processing, but now it just seems as if everything Sony was saying about the system is true.

It's designed for the next 10 years of gaming and it's really an advance piece of hardware, that developers have only just begun to tap into the true power of the system. I expect big things in the 2nd generation of games for the PS3.

I can't wait to see games start to take advantage of this 4D, The water looked so amazing it just made me think of what bio-shock would look like if it was using 4D. Man that game would be unreal. Time will tell just how amazing that tech turns out to be as games start using it.

The power of the PS3 now this really is Living...

Its a bit of imformation passed on by a web site. Dont lose any sleep over it.

Halo is STILL out next month.

i love all these people that disagree with everything the PS3 can do just becuase they think the 360 is better the only thing better about it right at this very moment is games but you cant possibly compare a systems games when one has bben out for 2 years(360) and 1 year (ps3) i mean honestly i think you guys are just trying to prove the 360 is better to yourselfs just to feel better abut buying the 360 instead of the ps3 which is obviously going to be better the 360 is too stupid

4D is the future its time to play B3yond only possible on Sony PS3.

Dont you think the Ps3 should worry about getting there games to run at 60 fps and getting games released on time before thinking about how it might be possible to get SO CALLED 4d graphics running on it???

think abut that first

Sony fangirls will believe anything!

you sonyfans already have 4d in your ps3.
it´s the time yopu put the game on, grab the pad and wait, then when the game starts you have your 4d in it´s all glory, you start crying because the games sucks. this is 4d, the time, the emotion and the realism of the cry and frustation. When you guys start believe that the ps3 and Xbox 360 can do almost exactly the same things? Sony blinds you with their next year and you guys always believe.
The games first.

Wow, great article, I had no idea. My 360 seems like more of a toy now. However, I am mostly a PC gamer so no biggie.

Wow, great article, I had no idea. My 360 seems like more of a toy now. However, I am mostly a PC gamer so no biggie.

Since I recently got into reading about theoretical astrophysics, I thought the term "4D gaming" was stupid, either someone had come up with a way to show the fourth dimension of space on a video game (impossible), or 4D simply meant time (Einstein's version of '4D'). But time is already shown in games, is it not? Otherwise they would be called Video Still Picture Games, in which nothing happened or changed with the passage of time. I recall a game called Blinx, in which the player could rewind and pause the game. So to claim that PS3 can game in '4D' seemed like a bogus claim. Until this article explained it to me. I was well-aware of procedural graphics but was not aware of their possible applications in 'animated' textures -- textures that change with time due to an algorithm.

This is not just a glimpse at what the PS3 can do, but what procedural technology can do, at where computer graphics are going.

BTW, I noticed someone posted that Imagining the 10th dimenion site. It's BS, pseudo-astrophyics.

when the PS3 is helping me bend space and time you guys will all be doomed! I shall travel back in time with a M16 and cut down Bill Gates when he is just a pre-teen! U know u all hate pre-teens!

Then after i do that i will buy stock in Sony b4 the release of the PS2!

last but not least i will travel back in time just so i can fight myself when i was a young punk kid!

Taken Directly from the profxengine's website...

Latest News
ProFX to be part of Microsoft's XNA Tool Suite
2007, March 26

So, I wonder why people quote the obvious Fanboy who wrote the PSU article. This whole thread and the comments are like a bunch of 4th graders talking.

Nowhere on the actual website of the people who did these videos does it say the 360 can't do this. It was made for 360 AND pc then later implemented for the ps3. Some of you guys are so incredibly clueless.
Nobody should comment about the ps3 over the 360 in regards to this '4D' until they read the entire website about profx. It is profxengine dot com

It's all about the 360 and PC! The new comments are that they're now going to make it work for the ps3. I do feel sorry for you guys that obviously can't afford both systems and have to bash the other. WTF! They're both awesome. If you can't see that, then you're blind. A blind fanboy and you know it!

Now that some of you have heralded this new 'revalation' as the death to the 360, what will you think when you read that it was built for the 360 BEFORE the ps3? I'm flabbergasted at the ignorance of some fanboys. LEARN TO READ AND INVESTIGATE before you run your mouths. Now eat some crow.

4D graphics is a MARKETING term! 1 step up from 3D...that's it! Some people will believe anything.

I read the first few comments, and I already smell the stench of uninformed idiocy among many commentators.

Look, the fourth dimention is time.
This can be interpreted in many ways - for example, you could see all the sides of one object at once.
Or, it could simply be aging. In this case, its aging. In other words, another factor for ingame objects would be age. Ingame time would affect the objects.

I expect PC to utilise this first though.
Look, as much as im a Sony fan, we must admit that the PS3 has already been surpassed in all areas by PCs (apart from CPU power) already.

I think this would be ideal for multicore processors - one core could always handle a thread to do with time. The PS3, due to its high-number of SPEs (not technically 'cores', but similar'), would probably be ideal for such applications.

The problem with implementing a fourth dimention into games is realism - things take a long time to show significant signs of aging - a barrel doesnt rust over 3 hours.
So, the only practical application I see of 4D is perhaps in a game like GTA, where time runs at a 1min:1hour ratio.

Significant thought would have to come into 4D before its implemented - there is no use just throwing it in, and putting an extra burden on your system if you will not see results.

And now, the future
Imagine your game environment evolving as time passes by.
Imagine this bathroom getting dirtier every time the gamer gets in the room.

ProFX gives you the opportunity to recompute the textures of your scenes according to time, weather, impact or any other input, and make them change organically.

from 4d section

...

Nice

Naked Sky Entertainment's RoboBlitz™ is the first Unreal Engine 3 based XBox 360 Live Arcade game to use ProFX. Because of our middleware, most of the textures are fully procedural and the entire game fits within 50MB.

As an example, the 73 full materials (about 200 maps: diffuse, specular, normal, etc.) of the first level, representing 80MB of DXT compressed content, are being generated in 4 seconds at load-time. The ProFX description file weighs only 280KB!

I'm looking forward to comparing PS3 games to watching paint dry.

Or maybe the they could show us all the PS3 fanboys going grey waiting for a game worth playing.

But sorry, more seriously, this is the most stupid concept i have heard for a long time.

Does anyone remember Silent hill? You went in a room, then returned later and it was different. I don't remember anyone saying that was some kind of 4d.

And to suggest that there is something special about the cell processor that makes it capable of something that is not possible on another type of processor is just dumb fanboy garbage.

Some of the Pro-Sony news is sounding really desperate these days.

The PS3 version comes out later as it is - anywhere from two weeks to months later. Adding this feature will delay games further and increase development costs - money they will likely not recoup.

The video looked great - and I hope some first or second party games implement this. It reminds me of the promises of Fable from Molyneaux when it was first revealed.

good week for ps3, and yes it's possible on it, now xbots please shut up you know will this make you shut up:current 360 exclusives are better then ps3 exclusives.

i look forward to seeing devs put 4d to use, though frankly i'm more pleased by realistic in game physics, interactive environments etc.

What we are likely to see in 4d for the next year or so will be tech demo's. Then we will see a few attempts in a some games experimenting with it. Some Game Engines will start taking advantage of it - but limited. Some game will come out that focuses on it, and it will likely become a cult favorite - but will likely shape the way forward.

When the next gen starts - MS will be talking up 4d and their "innovative" use of it - along with their offering "value" to the customer with the addition on the BR drive.

Check on a number of previous technologies - this is just how it works.

For the MS fans - you will drool over some PS3 techs being released - and actually rightly comment that it a "gimmick" - because in the beginning all new technologies is gimmicks. There will not be much use except for enjoying a few moments of a tech demo - but still the source of secret envy. Some of it will be easily duplicated with extra textures - but it will cut into the DVD space available.

For the PS3 fans - it will give a few moments that can be pointed to with pride in the technical superiority of the PS3 - but other than a few places where it will dazzle - not of much use for a few years to come.

But after than the few moments that will be proudly pointed at, with envy downplayed from the other camp, it will usher in a new generation of technology. Don't expect too much in the infancy stage - which is needed nonetheless. It is new, it is shiny, it will have a few uses, but in future at some point it will become as standard as 3d rendering. It will be limited in the beginning because of the budget limitations but when engines can cope with it, and when a number of reference implementations is available - it will become standard. But this is 5 years off at least.

Theres another benefit besides environments changing over time, and that is texture space. While procedural textures are processor intensive, they are very cheap from a memory standpoint. As they indicated at the end of that "Bayou" video, all the textures in that entire scene required a total of 319kB.

Freakin internet freaked out on me and now my reply is a comment at the end of the list. Bleh

well if there are current games that run at 4d, how is it only the ps3 that is capable?

Cell and RSX combine = 4D graphics.

You just wait and see.

maked by ps3 fan boy----xbox 360 -- sharders models 4 and direct 9+ comptbl by directx10...ps 3= openl and sharders model 3 baaaaa