Not only God of War but Ratchet and Clank too.

If you want to talk personally then personally a lot of fans only count the Halo main games, not the spin off titles.

Milking isn't a terrible thing. If the demand is high, then make the game. The problem comes when games become bad, and a lot of people enjoy Halo. So what's with the complaints? I still havent seen a lot of guys do what Bungie does, specifically in the multiplayer component. I'm not surprised Halo 4 is under development if true, but the franchise is still solid.

MP on the PC has been superior to anything produced by Bungie or any console game for that matter, for years upon years.

Consoles get props for ease of use and streamlined infrastructure, but they're really just closed system PCs.

And I think that the problem with milking is that ANY franchise, simply by being produced in excess loses some of it's 'freshness' and what made it unique (as, by the simple process of being remade ad infinitum, it is no longer so). The more you make something, the more attenuated that critical spark is that made the game once great. Sometimes it takes decades for this decay to occur, but it inevitably DOES. Final Fantasy XIII is testament to that - a great game sure, but not the pinnacle of it's genre. Persona 3 scored higher and has held the JRPG crown for the past few years (4 was just a refinement of the formula established in 3). And yes I realize the irony of using a "3rd iteration" to prove a point. But that game is so fresh and so dynamic and so constantly recreating itself, it's world and it's mechanics, that it is perhaps one of the few games that demonstrates how sequels SHOULD be done. A whole new game, not just new scenery and some added features.

Then you have something like Bioshock 2, where the creative pool simply wasn't large enough to sustain or warrant a sequel. That said, we'll probably get a Bioshock 3 in another year or so. That is my take on "milking".

Some stories should just be left alone and remembered.

That's how I feel anyhow.

I have no doubt what is made on the PC has a more open platform for features. But when talking about consoles, I always see the 360 get trashed in a double-standard fashion, and I dont get it. That is why I defend Bungie-- they have done a lot of great things with Halo/XBL yet somehow the conversation has diluted to Halo being overrated. There is always so much negativity with 360 articles. When R&C was getting yet another game no one complained much around here, but Halo can't catch that same break. I don't get why every 360 thread seems to get derailed into a fight where 360 fans are trying to fend off the PS3 fans who seem to cast some sort of double-judgment.

Halo 4 is under development, yes, and it's only now that people are talking about milking. But with something like Ratchet or God of War nobody complains about staleness. Why? I assume because they still enjoy the formula, and I say the same for Halo. In fact, Reach is changing Halo quite a bit.

Now I enjoy your comments because you bring a lot to the table. I just wish we could get this conversation with a PS3 game under the microscope.

That said, constant games do ruin the authenticity/uniqueness of a title, but that doesn't stop a game from being enjoyed. Halo has always been a highly rated and highly enjoyed franchise, so I look forward to it. Just because it's thought to be under development now doesn't mean it's coming anytime soon.

If I remember correctly God of War 3 was thought of right after God of War 2.

Yet, there seems to be this implication and this need to paint anything MS in some negative fashion-- in this case as cash-milking lazy developers. Cash-milking I'm sure, but I've never seen this topic come up with Final Fantasy 13, God of War, or Ratchet and Clank and if it has, it has been shot down real quick by the masses here.

Hell the first comment speaks volumes. Put that on a god of war or ratchet and clank thread and watch what happens.

Furthermore, I did use the term ALL (in caps) when referring to the milking of franchises and again in the first post. And I also mentioned God of War in my second post, and stated quite happily that I would be content with the series to end. I realize that your comment was not directed solely or necessarily at me, but I that's my defense regardless :)

I also think that gamers, being passionate, fail to separate the product that they love (games) from the people who promote and market said product (MS, Sony, Nintendo). I've said this many times, but there is a distinct lack of consumer awareness and intelligence when it comes to this issue. You can like a game or franchise without liking how it is marketed or the practices of who (MS, Sony, Nintendo) is promoting it.

They are all guilty of a certain degree of bullshit, but as for why Sony hasn't been put under the microscope for their milking (which does indeed exist), I'd say it's simply because A.) there is a very strong Sony following on this site. B.) Sony simply have more established IPs (that's not a dig at MS' lack of 1st party content), that being games with one or more spin-offs/ sequels. MS has Halo, Gears, Fable and Forza as their flagships; or at least those are the franchises that they choose to illuminate the most. Certainly, there is a wealth of PC ports, multi-platform games and other content to fill and enrich the 360 library, but when we're looking at what each company selects to represent their console, Sony just has more and varied content. We're talking about 1st party games here, and their studios have paid off in this regard (though perhaps at the sacrifice of having a solid mascot for the PS3). Thus it's difficult to narrow the eye on a particular IP that stands out as ready to retire, when there are so many.

But yes, Ratchet is tired. I don't need to see him and his robot friend till next gen and after a substantial reboot. Killzone, Resistance and Uncharted should park it after the 3rd installment too, let's save some pizazz for 2013 (or whenever the next console gen starts) or beyond.

Speaking of what's to come, I understand that people just like to play familiar games/ characters/ franchises, and that's why I believe that moving forward the bulk of all games will be online and/ or MP experiences, with micro-transactions and expansion packs driving content for a franchise.

In 2015+, I'd be willing to bet that a very sizable portion of the gaming market will be MMOs or MMO hybrids. It is just a matter of time before COD/ FF/ insert favorite franchise here become primarily online experiences. Pretty much any comment from any major development house, as well as the push for online connectivity with consoles, indicates this.

Anyhoo, I'm dangerously close to inflicting a 20K crit with my massive wall of text and I'm out of bubbles to boot! :) So peace.

+ bubbles to you firstly.

And second, I have no problem with you, and I appreciate your level-headedness. I was speaking generally in terms of this site. I don't find what Bungie is doing with the Halo franchise milking, nor do I think there is a problem with what they are doing. They put in the added effort to justify a new game (it can't be made as Halo 3 DLC), etc.

Yes, ODST was underwhelming for some based on length alone, but people seem to enjoy attacking it that way. Halo fans loved it, and despite Halo fanboys loving all that is Halo the game was irregardless of length (which was just as long as other titles this gen, with a new mode and same multiplayer) a well-received game.

I don't think it's fair to paint Bungie in the same light as someone like Infinity Ward. They've worked very hard IMO and have done a lot. The Halo franchise as a whole may be getting too much, but I dont think Halo 4 is coming anytime soon. I'm sure it's underway but that means nothing. Anyways, I'd love to talk more but I'm sneaking this text in at work :)

Nice conversation, thanks :D