natal = camera

move = camera and controller

anyone else see which is better?

from my personal standpoint

Molyneux talkin pooh again, "yes, we know u gotta hard-on 4-Micrsoft"

Obviously he will said that.

Is not like he will said ''Move is bigger step than Natal''.

Some people overreact with Peter answers.

The problem about Natal is that either it is going to cost more than an new 360, or else it is not going to work probably.
They should have waited a few years with Natal, it is too ambitious.

Natal is the PS Eye with the Microsoft stamp on it

reminds me of an article entitled "HDDVD is a bigger step than Bluray"

Move is a better version of the Wii controller, and Natal is a better version of EyeToy. It's hard to say which one is a bigger step since they are very different from each other.

Natal- Updated version of EyeToy

Move- Updated version of the Wii Controller

The simple fact that he is constantly on damage control shows how poor Natal really is.

Move is just a wii motion rip off.

Natal is a completely new step.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

The PS move is nothing we have not seen. I think, it will be easier to hit the ground running if it comes out with a Wii-like package.

Unlike the Eyetoy, MS is really marketing/pushing Natal as a next best thiing(whatever that might mean to most).

In the end, if you have something that is "FUNCTIONAL": It's all about Developer Support My friend.

natal is just the new wii, its gonna be a fad if it succeeds, while move is just some optional add on most people wont buy anyway since they think its a wii-rip off.

honestly im not getting any of them, i like real games, not stuff that makes me dance and wiggle my toe.

although playing a new elder scrolls game wud be amazing with MOVE :p drools, thats its only use for me lol

Natal is just a playstation eyetoy, only on xbox360. Yeah, I can now clean windows on my xbox360, with lag!!

Sony has been toying with 3D motion recognition since Eye of Judgement.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

People keep acting like Natal is the second coming while discounting many of Sony's achievements that are introductions to some of the same tech ideas.

Freakin fanboys.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

There are many more, but fanbabies will never admit that !

Edit: @ butterfinger below, yes you are right, the first and third videos are hilarous, especially at the end showing "2004" !

how sad it is to see all of these PS3 fanboys on here trying to claim that Natal is the same as the PS Eye. If you believe that Natal is the same as the PS Eye, then Move is the same as Wii Motion Plus. Why don't you stop being so scared about what the other consoles bring to the table and start focusing on how much fun you will have with your new device when it comes out? The "Gamer Zone" should be renamed to "PS3 Fanboys Say Whatever They Want Without Threat of Banishment Zone".

Because requiring a large empty room and having to make ridiculous gestures to do anything is fun. Right?

The fact that Molyneux is so defensive shows how threatened he really is. The move is going to be victorious against natal just like how the ps3 is with the 360.

It doesn't seem like Molyneux is biased against the Playstation Move, "As a designer it's another one of those things I'd love to get my hands on and to play around with." Also he considers The Move being more for the core audience while Natal is for the casual market, "This is purely me talking personally, but I think maybe it's slightly more a device for the core than it is for the casual market, because I think it's quite precise."

So I really don't see what people are upset about.

Natal is definitely more unique, whereas the Move is nearly an exact replica of the Wii Remote w/ Nunchuk setup, but I still doubt Natal will succeed without analog sticks.

ok wasnt there an article yesterday saying he was interested in the sony move??

It IS a bigger step than Move!

A bigger step BACKWARDS to the age of the Play Station 2 when EyeToy was released.

Surely the 'big' 360 games require something in your hand to play them? HALO is am FPS, so how can you play it empty handed? Supply your own broomstick?

Can't say I'm convinced that I need ANY motion control system to be honest, but seeing the demo of Move with SOCOM 4 piqued my interest. I can't imagine doing that with nothing in my hands at all, though - I'd just feel too detached.

ok heres the article

http://n4g.com/tech/News-49...

This thread is full of fanboys. All acting as if their opinion is fact. I don't think that you realize some people enjoy turd like Eyetoy, Natal, and move.

Personally I dislike any gimmicky product and prefer controllers, but there is a big majority who like it. Just look at Wii sales if you don't agree with me.

But for hardcore gamers, Move and Natal will be fun, but they will collect dust fast. Really fast.

the more you show your jelousy, what is with this place at the moment, you don't need to keep defending move, if it does the job for you that's great, but it is not in the same league as Natal, I for one will not be buying Natal if the removal of the CPU means that we get nothing like we were told, but if it delivers in the way we hope it can and hopefully will then this is no step backwards as you suggest.

All I'm seeing is PS2's eyeToy 2.0...and crappy gameplay demonstrations of that infernal hand ball jackassery that always, ALWAYS looks laggy.

...Milo's crack!!! ;-D

is that we still haven't seen these statements backed up with REAL VIDEOS showing us this BEYOND eyetoy/pseye ability.

it's just like when ps3 first came out and microsoft put out papers saying 360 was more powerful than ps3.but not one exclusive game on 360 looks better than ps3 exclusive games.because if 360 was more powerful,the gaming community would be giving microsoft's games the awards.but in 2 years,sony has garnered the graphics awards hands down.

but as for natal,microsoft couldn't even show up to the DEVELOPER'S CONFERENCE to show even DEVELOPERS that it works.not just gamers.they chickened out because they got nothing.

and that's the bottom line:sony is time and time again,showing that it can do head tracking,it can do voice control,it can do face recognition,it can do full upper body tracking....

BUT MICROSOFT HAS SHOWN NOTHING AS USUAL FOR A HALF TO A WHOLE YEAR JUST LIKE ITS GAMES.

but ps3 fans are dellusional when we are the ones that are seeing real developers and real videos and 360 fans are still talking about TECH PAPERS.

Yeah, the technology inside the Wii mote is NOT from Nintendo.
The technology from the PS Move is from Sony own technology, and that is the different and innovation is from PS time frame so, what what is your point?

I agree that the hardware is copy, but the inside the hardware (technology) is from Sony and not from Nintendo they have to paid the licentie to another company and inspiration is from the PS2 PS EYE TOY.

So what is your point again? the bottom line is, Sony is one who start first second Nintendo on licentiation and third Microsoft wits buy the technology.

move will be able to play real games. natal, plays casual family games. while move does both

Molyneux is one of the most overrated developers in the whole gaming industry! He never delivered on his promises! He is regarded a a legend without deserving this title. HIs games are without soul and lack personality.
Natal is the biggest misstep in gaming history. People want to feel something material in their hands, which connects them with the game. Only a controller-like device can fully immerse the player. Natal will fail miserably.

I may have missed it, but I dont recall Sony saying anything about Natal.....is this true ?
PM is known for flapping his gums and underlivering

Ultimately, Like Peter said...it is up to the developers to make something meaningful with these motion control technologies.

In my opinion based on the facts that I have seen, I believe Sony has created the more inclusive, precise, and robust motion control system.

PS Eye can do 99% of what Natal can do.

PS Move can do more than what a WiiMote can do

PS Eye and PS Move together can do things Natal can't do and things WiiMote can't do.

Besides, who do you trust will have the best electronics between Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo?...think about it...LOL.

And based on quality of first party games this generation, who do you trust will have the best developers and quality assurance to create the best motion controlled games?...again think about it...LOL.

Based on the type of motion control technology who do you think will get the most motion control games from third parties?...again think about it...LOL.

If developers put Natal support in a multiplatform game they can easily put PS Eye support into the game also. If developers put WiiMote support into a multiplatform game, they can easily put PS Move support into the game also.

I am glad Natal is around because now developers will make use of the PS Eye in games. Maybe waving my hand to slap an NPC during an interrogation using voice recognition. This can be done on both Natal and PS Eye.

People are getting hyped for Natal which is fine but do people realize that everything that we have seen Natal do is already possible and has already been done on the EyeToy on PS2 and on the PS Eye on the PS3.

Sony has had algorithms for facial recognition and speech recognition for use with PS Eye for a long time.

Another advantage Sony Move has over Natal is the use of system resources. Sony Move uses less processing power and memory than Natal...meaning more resources are left over for the PS3 to create the game. In other words, Move games will have better graphics, physics, effects, A.I., etc than Natal games.

Furthermore, the Cell processor is a beast at calculations and processing video which will give the PS Eye an edge over Natal from a computational standpoint.

DF talked about some of these things. I am surprised people don't realize how many advantages Sony has when it comes to motion controls. Its pretty obvious to me.

Xbox only dev saying this,i thought he'd be gushing over the Sony Move instead..next for all we know Zipper will be bragging about Move over Natal but no way,that wouldn't happen right?

Ok right so lets weigh in all the facts.

Move: 30/60fps
Natal: 30 fps using up 20-30% of CPU power
--------
Move: Controller Support
Natal: No Controller support (apart from 360 controller)
--------
Move: Full Body Tracking
Natal: Full Body Tracking
--------
Move: Voice Recognition
Natal: Voice Recognition
--------
Move: 4 person Tracking
Natal: 4 Person Tracking
--------

Not to mention the fact, due to Natal now lacking a CPU and eating up 30% of the the Xenons power, games like Gears, technically are not possible with full blown Natal games. They will all look like first gen 360 games.
Now how can anyone tell me, after that list of pure facts (no bias) that Natal is a bigger step than Move. Natal is Microsoft playing catchup. Sony has had controllerless gaming since last gen and PSeye, especially Eyepet, prove they have hardware out NOW, that can already do what Natal is doing. Don't believe the hype.

I wonder if all the people defending him even realize he works for Microsoft. Regardless of his opinion, he's going to pimp Natal no matter how lame it is.

A xbox 360 game designer critizing Sony for lack of orginality.

Because the last time i checked both Natal & Move are blatant rip-offs.

Molyneux speaks the truth, the Natal is quintessentialy original.

What it is, is a huge risk.Microsoft is dipping it's toes into uncharted waters. Nintendo and Sony have already have tons of experience in casual gaming. Microsoft knows next to nothing on the subject. Microsoft's games are not as varied as theirs. When you think about it Microsoft's games are basically either shooters or sports. They don't even have a proper platformer, RPG or adventure game under their belt.I mean look how Banjo Kazooie Nuts and Bolts was recieved. Also they most likely won't attract any current Xbox 360 owners. Most of the people I know that have Xbox 360 aren't into the type of games that Microsoft will most likely try to make for the Natal. They are usually shooter fanatics. PS3 owners are closer in scope to Wii owners and will give the Move a more open welcome. However I see nothing but scorn for the Natal from 360 owners whether it works or not

If Sony was smart they should be working on PS Eye control of the XMB Minority Report style.

This will take the hype off Natal controlling the dashboard.

They should also add some voice recognition like "Play video", Play music" to initiate video and audio playback of files on the XMB

Also "Launch Home" which would launch you into home by voice command.

I hope Sony is working on these things.

If Sony plays their cards right...when PS3 Move and Natal launch with their respective features everyone will be wondering what was so special about Natal in the first place...

No disrespect to Microsoft but all this talk about Natal being revolutionary is marketing talk because when you look feature for feature things just aren't adding up.

Actually Natal is the DreamEye and so is the Rip-off EyeToy. They couldn't even think of a new name so Sony even stole that.. Now they are doing it again with the Move to Nintendo.

So Sega and Ninty you are the true innovators here the rest are just copy cats.

Now is everyone happy?? Neither Sony nor MS get credit for any of this.

PlayStation Move has much more accurate motion tracking, so far. It's a shame the processor was removed from Natal...now it's almost certain we'll have interface lag...sigh.

Natal is a whole new ballgame, while Move is simply a refinement of the Wii-mote and nunchuck. The only thing that's going to hold Natal back though is physical input and feedback, which is far more accurate than what a camera can pick up on.

Even motion capture studios rely on over a hundred cameras in order to accurately pick up every individual's movement, and that's WITH tracking markers all over their bodies. The fact that Natal has to do the exact same thing with just two cameras (from what I remember) and no tracking markers is quite a feat.

I hope Microsoft can pull it off successfully for all game types, not just "casual party games".

Move is the pathetic "hail mary" of a dying company without new or innovative ideas. Natal, while not for everyone, is a legitimate and exciting step forward. Move will be "moved" into obscurity in a matter of months thanks to poor sales and zero interest. Natal will be a huge success this holiday season. Strong sales will lead to a wide range of developers supporting it with new and innovative games. The good news for Sony is PS3 will always have strong support on N4G. Unfortunately these bored children don't buy games, as they are too busy making childish postings like the one from Sir Ken Kutaragi above me.

fixed*

Arguably......yes

they are both equally sized steps in different paths towards the same destination.

of course Natal's "steps" are laggy...for now =(

Actually, I think jakethemuss is right, Sony wants to attract casual gamers and hardcore gamers alike, with a bunch of family games for the casual, and hardcore games like Socom 4 for, well, the hardcore.

He looks kind of like Pee Wee Herman.

The PS eye is also capable of 120fps although the resolution drops.

whatever molyneux said he's just a GOBSHITE mouthpeace, when this guy opens his mouth shares at MS fall they need to tape this guys mouth up or put a zip on it (like zippy).

Absolutely. MOVE is just a straight copy of Wii's motion sticks. Play Beyond? More like Play Behind. Motion sticks is old news. NATAL on the other hand is changing the way games will be played. Lots of excitement is coming from top developers because of NATAL. Nobody is interested in MOVE.

Yeah, say that again when you're not under microsoft's "influence" >.>

Natal is so 2002(The year PS Eye Toy was first demonstrated to the public). :P

I like the idea of Natal but the problem that I see is it going to take a whole new writing system for a game. You already seen Wii ports moving over to playstation move but it would be interesting to see what happens. I have a feeling it will end up being a whole bunch of mini game like the playstation eyetoy games I use to play where you used your hand to move balls across the screen.

Yeah I agree its a bigger step, but I still hate this Molyneux Douche.

Still not getting the Move nor Natal. Give me a virtual visor... YEAH!

...is one huge step backwards in terms of hardcore gaming.

If they can make Natal perfect than yes it might be better then Move. Move was a stupid ID on Sony's part because its a copy of something already on the market. I own a ps3,I will not be buying Move.

On the one hand how Sony attempts to not only snare the casual gamer, but as to whether they [and developers] will attempt to push the boundaries of what such a controller can do with the extra graphics and processing power.
How they choose to market the wand should be interesting within those dualities too.

Of where this leaves Nintendo and what their next step will be, if their niche regarding control is now being done elsewhere. Will it be a HD Wii, a more powerful version or indeed put all their eggs in the basket of a new console to compete.

And of how natal compares to both. Potentially it could really blow both out of the water, but that is only potential at this point.

Within all of the above, it's all about the games - and having three companies attempt to outdo one another and knick things on another step can only be good for all of us, no matter which console you prefer or lean towards.

Considering he was the idiot showcasing a fake vid of a a woman talking to a fake child....

Haha, literally!!! You have to move around with Natal. I don't know about everyone else, but after working 11 hour days and walking I don't know how many miles with all of the steps I take, I would much rather just sit and play a game with a controller!!!

But I guess lazy people just wouldn't understand that, loL!

Now that Jim Ryan is gone just need to remove Herman Hulst from his position! And maybe give Shuhei the position he deserved.

This gen hasn't been the best for games, last gen consoles are still out there and now there's been talk of the PS6 and Xbox Two for a year or so. Many games this gen will be ported to next gen and the cycle will continue. The re-release of the Neo Geo AES+, games on cartridge for £70 ($95), gaming is going back in time. Gaming has gone pricing mad with the high cost of games, consoles and controllers. The men and women at the top are clueless.

It’s always interesting to hear behind-the-scenes stories like this, especially involving veterans like Shuhei Yoshida and leadership figures like Jim Ryan. That said, there are usually multiple sides to decisions at that level. It could be less about not “listening” and more about differences in long-term vision for PlayStation. Yoshida played a huge role in shaping the brand, so whatever the reason, his impact is undeniable.

If true, and I'm inclined to believe it is, it goes to show that Sony lost their way when they became more western/didn't respect the PlayStation origin story. Andrew House and Jack Tretton did great work, but they also didn't try to fundamentally change the PlayStation DNA. Ryan oversaw the death of Japan Studio and a live service direction.

I already figured this, good lord imagine if Shuhei took over instead, would've been a platinum era 😩

I miss the first three generations of PlayStation. The way they turned PS3 around, we knew they meant business. We were all worried for a bit there around launch. Eventually from 2008 they started shifting slowly. But since Yoshida was fired, it's never been the same. Still enjoy my PS5 daily. I got a backlog dating back to PS2 lol So I'm fine but new games aren't as appealing anymore.

It seems like we were thrown on to the worst timeline possible where everything is too expensive and the wrong people were put in positions that makes the world a shitty place. We could have had Shu as the head of PS but we got the shitty alternative. Same goes for everyone in power around the world. Doesn’t matter the company or country the majority of us got the shitty picks and the world is declining like never before. I do think PS can come out of this because of their studios, talent and IP but they need someone more in touch with gamers leading things like Shu was. They’re still the best place for console gaming imo but it could be much better than it is especially without the massive live service failures. The rest of the world I have a lot less hope for right now. Hopefully the pendulum swings back towards the good ole days but I’m preparing for the worst.

There goes illuminati distraction story

So now there's certifiable proof that Ryan was in fact "fired", as opposed to when it was first announced that he "retired", in order to save face.

There's another guy who recently "retired" as CEO of another large gaming company, after doing a dismantling job as lead for well over a decade.

seems legit, the business man, fires the one who has ideas to move the business forward.

Jim Ryan is the reason why we are entering year 6 since the PS5 launch and many of us don't feel like the PS5 has gotten started as yet.

I hope going forward, we will see a return to form.