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Lead developer exposes Natal inner-workings

Natal's lead developer Alex Kipman has revealed that the upcoming peripheral will demand 10-15 per cent of the 360's CPU resources.

He added that the device can recognise any pose in just 10 milliseconds – quick enough to suggest that the final product won't suffer from lag issues.

And in under two-tenths of a second, says Kipman, Natal can recognise the body shape of a new user stepping in front of it.

"Natal has to work on the existing hardware without taking too much hardware processing away from the games developers," added Kipman in an interview with trade publication New Scientist.

The lead designer added that he and his team had collected "terabytes" of data of people making poses likely to appear during game play.

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develop-online.net
Sonyslave35961d ago

Natal’s lead developer Alex Kipman has revealed that the upcoming peripheral will demand 10-15 per cent of the 360’s CPU resources.

He added that the device can recognise any pose in just 10 milliseconds – quick enough to suggest that the final product won’t suffer from lag issues.

And in under two-tenths of a second, says Kipman, Natal can recognise the body shape of a new user stepping in front of it.

"Natal has to work on the existing hardware without taking too much hardware processing away from the games developers,” added Kipman in an interview with trade publication New Scientist.

The lead designer added that he and his team had collected "terabytes" of data of people making poses likely to appear during game play

Key body parts were meticulously identified in each image and frame, with all the data feeding into a computer rig.

According to Kipman, all the collated data resulted in a software package that can recognise 31 body parts in any video frame.

The software package itself weighs a mere 50MB, and is so sophisticated, says Kipman, that Natal can calculate where the player’s hand is even if its hidden behind their back.

“When we train this 'brain' we are telling it: this is the head, this is the shoulder. And we're doing that over millions of frames," says Kipman.

"When it sees a new image it can tell you the probability it's seeing a certain body part based on that historical information

Natal is skynet.

4point7BillionLoss5961d ago

That's 6 times faster than the PS3 could recognise controller actions in Killzone 2 ... Tell us again Droids how the controller lag was realism ?

did you get your teeth whitened yet smely droids?

JeffGUNZ5961d ago (Edited 5961d ago )

ahahah wow, that was clever 4point7BillionLoss , I actually laughed out loud. Come on, let's hear it! "...uh well it's innovation, it makes it feel real". Yeah, that's why it's patched. For people so uninterested in natal, they sure love to comment on it, don't you think!?

Udidntlistenpunk5961d ago

360 has no real games.

I feel sorry for those poor excuses of games and the bots who are going to play those. Haha, everyday they wake up and they wished they had gotten a PS3 for Xmas.

Haha

OmarJA-N4G5961d ago

Awww at the cute bots above... :)

@ 4point7BillionLoss:

Poor M$ lost more than 10 billion $ on the 360 alone & no Office 2010 for you... :D

Did you get your mind checked yet retarded fella? :)

chaosatom5961d ago

MS fanboys are desperate, lol.

JeffGUNZ5961d ago

But I bet the Sony motion control is the best!

Roper3165960d ago

@1.6

No all motion controls are a effin joke and should just be swept under the rug as far as I am concerned. I don't support the Wii in anyway and I have no intention of supporting MS or Sony's motion controls either. That is just my opinion on motion controls in general regardless of who name is on it.

rawd5960d ago

Guess which one of my 31 key body parts MS can suck

+ Show (5) more repliesLast reply 5960d ago
rebirthofcaos5961d ago (Edited 5961d ago )

so if those were 10-15 % better graphics..... and the 360 cant get uncharted 2 graphics that means that it will look worse than gears 1..right.........right?

4Sh0w5961d ago (Edited 5961d ago )

It's much more complicated than that, the software for Natal and the game engine code specifically written for Natal will have alot to do with how that 10-15% of CPU is utilized, actually 10 to 15% isn't a whole lot, its not like any of the current games on any console right now use 100% of the CPU's power all the time, if that were the case and games were using anywhere close to 85-90% of CPU all the time you can bet every game will have terrible frame-rate issues,(not just the minor stuff we see now and instantly say "it sucks") which is why games with in-effecient coding suffer from various issues including screen tearing, clipping, bug's etc. These consoles can handle alot of stuff but it falls into the dev's knowledge and skill, thats why you see games on consoles continue to get better, and unlike PC they are using the SAME hardware it launched with 4 yrs ago, the obvious question someone unfamiliar with tech might ask is "Why didn't the first games look like that?" Well because it takes time for dev's to learn how to get more power, effectively use their resources for any particular hardware, never underestimate how important Software, hardware, game engine, coding efficiency etc can make or break a game.

Still I wish micro had kept the on-board chip, thats obviously the best way to avoid ANY hardware limitations, but its possible alot of things can be done well with software written specifically for Natal, mostly the lack of on-board chip will hurt backwards compatibility games designed from the ground up won't likely be affected too much when done properly.

Udidntlistenpunk5961d ago (Edited 5961d ago )

Dont expect Gears-graphics games on Natal.

If you do, then you will be severely disappointed.

@el columbiano
Because we all know how great 360 games look, right?
Actually, I havent seen a single game looking better than Gears on the 360. Gears was and is simply the pinnacle of unreal engine 3. Whether you like it or not.

El_Colombiano5961d ago

Why wouldn't I expect Gears graphics on Natal? They aren't that difficult to achieve at all.

Anon19745961d ago (Edited 5961d ago )

I suppose that's good news for all the body shape bending games Microsoft plans on unleashing on us. I wonder if it'll be able to quickly register my "I don't give a sh!t" pose in these cutting edge, body shape bending games.

How will it be for more subtle movements? I've heard Natal can register 30fps, but that doesn't explain the obvious lag displayed in the demos out there.

Still, it can't be any worse than the WiiMote. That thing's about as accurate registering precise movement as I am trying to thread a needle with a two by four.

Persistantthug5961d ago

I want to see it actually work now.

No big stage with curtains or tricks or anything like that.

I want to see it actually work now.

chaosatom5961d ago

But there are not known for the quality of their hardware anyway /XD

The Lazy One5961d ago (Edited 5961d ago )

then why are you wasting time posting about it? if you're willing to come into every thread about it to say you don't give a sh!t, you clearly give a sh!t.

edit:

And I agree. They should have kept the on board chip. Probably just to save money to get the cost of natal down, but it would have greatly increased natal's usability.

saint_john_paul_ii5961d ago

well if you think about it, it was a smart move. If you herard the rumors about NATAL Recently, it was that it was going to be expensive. Getting rid of the chip makes the product cheaper to produce and sell now.

chaosatom5961d ago (Edited 5961d ago )

Also, more usage of 360 processing power can heat up the 360 more and cause more RROD.

IdleLeeSiuLung5961d ago (Edited 5961d ago )

So we got people that all along have said they are not interested and instead here to only nit pick this exciting technology.

After hearing more details of this, I'm even more excited about the it. Just look at the complexity of the software they developed and it only takes 50MB. That's a feat!

Check this out:

The lead designer added that he and his team had collected "terabytes" of data of people making poses likely to appear during game play.

So it not only computes where your limbs are, but it has a database poses to draw from. That should help lag immensely.

"When it sees a new image it can tell you the probability it's seeing a certain body part based on that historical information."

It's like God Dang!

But hey, you guys can b!tch about how the gaming world is going casual and just really expose how you really are just a relic of the past. With the proper support even hard core gamers will enjoy Natal and MS seems to be doing just that.

Keep in mind this technology is still almost a year away so there is plenty of time to release more information.

sikbeta5961d ago

You're right about that, but at the same time the new camera without the chip now is just a gimmicky camera that will can't handle all the stuff M$ was saying

Anon19745961d ago (Edited 5961d ago )

The idea of a "body shape posing" game is what doesn't appeal to me. Natal seems like it could be cool, but I just haven't seen evidence that it's going to be used for much more than party games, something I couldn't care less about, or poorly replacing the controller, like with the Burnout demo with everyone unable to stop smashing into walls every 13 seconds.

I'm eagerly waiting details on how Fable 3 will implement Natal. I've loved both Fable 1 and 2 and I've been rather apprehensive on how Lionhead plan on implementing Natal with Fable 3, however they haven't let me down so far.

Kushan5961d ago

Hey guys, here's a hint for you: Graphics rely more on the GPU. Natal uses the CPU, not the GPU. So all this talk about "gears-like graphics" is idiotic, especially as you have no idea how much CPU power gears actually uses.
Its very difficult to have all processors (and GPUs) running at full tilt all of the time, there's always some time when they're waiting to be fed data from another process and since Natal's input calculations can run as a near separate process (not dependant on anything other than the camera itself), there's a very good chance that it would have little impact on many games anyway.
Sure, there will be titles that really do require that extra 10% CPU power, but the point remains, graphics aren't going to be affected much at all.

jmare5961d ago

While you're mostly right, the CPU can have an effect on the GPU. The CPU still has to tell the GPU what to process so if Natal slows down the CPU it would have an effect on the GPU. I'm not saying this is likely, just that the possibility exists. If the code is inefficient, it could lead to problems.

we won5960d ago (Edited 5960d ago )

The Natal chip article and the reaction from all PS3 fans has more to do with low pricing for Natal, basically being confirmed. Not one PS3 fan in either article has any idea what they're talking about. Where is *Chris399* ?

It's hard to tell if PS3 fans are angry because of the confirmed low pricing or the fact MSFT has announced some of Natal's monster processing capability, trying to downplay it by nit picking forced issues.

commodore645960d ago (Edited 5960d ago )

*whistles*

Wow... 10 milisecond response time?
That's pretty darn quick.

Why are people posting that there is too much lag?
Are they just trolling and hating?
Is it jealousy?
Very childish.

As far as I can tell the removal of the chip will make the technology cheaper and more accessible for all gamers and result in more developer support. Add to that a 10ms response time and it's looking pretty good!

beardpapa5960d ago

so if the chip isn't in natal and it's using 360 resources, can I just get a natal experience using the existing 360 camera or setup an IR camera of sorts?

Ju5960d ago

Yeah, like you can with any Eyetoy or any (3D) camera on the PC, for that matter. LOL.

pixelsword5960d ago

Now I hope Natal doesn't hog too much of the processing power, since Alan Wake is supposed to use it in some form or another(from what I read)

+ Show (16) more repliesLast reply 5960d ago
Pennywise5961d ago (Edited 5961d ago )

If anyone ever catches me doing that pose in front of my TV to play a game or "interact" with my gaming system, I hope that person is a good enough friend to "Old Yeller" me.

4Sh0w5961d ago (Edited 5961d ago )

Your joke would make more sense if she was like bent over, with one foot in the air, one her arm behind back and one hand on a "twister" color. All I see is a girl reaching out as if she were touching something.

Oh wait you were implying all Natal games will have you doing all sorts of wacky poses, flailing around and jumping behind your living room couch. Oh OK, I see your point. Carry on then.

Anon19745961d ago (Edited 5961d ago )

Ever since that "make an elephant shape and now throw virtual paint at it" Natal demo, I've maintained "If that's the future of gaming, I guess it's time for me to start polishing up my golf game."

And Milo is seriously creepy. Sometimes I bolt awake in the middle of the night screaming "Milo sees my soul!"

I really haven't seen anything yet that convinces me that Natal, or the Sony Wands for that matter, are going to be worth my money.

bjornbear5961d ago

don't bring the throw paint test that natal had =P it was HORRIBLE xD!!!!

Can't do crap with that thing i'm sorry.

Natal had the good ball game with the chick though, THAT was cool...the ink thing, not so much

kewlkat0075961d ago (Edited 5961d ago )

wtf is this? counseling session. Natal striking fear.

Crack me up. Those that never really cared about Natal all the sudden care less because a chip was taken out...Even experts on how it will work.

Do/Did you care....really? Maybe I haven't noticed on N4G.

Priceless.

Pennywise5961d ago

No fears here, just cracking jokes as usual. Too bad some people have to take everything so seriously.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 5960d ago
divideby05961d ago

will this thing work with my launch 360 (its the 3rd one for me, but it has HDMI but only a crappy 20G hd)...havent had any issues, but taxing the CPU just scares me, if only another 10%

JeffGUNZ5961d ago

Yes, they are making it compatible with all 360's. They stated that during last years E3.

divideby05961d ago

thnx...just want to hear something about HD space and I am RIGHTFULLY concerned about overtaxing my launch units CPU, since its the 3rd one and if this goes..no mo 360s for me.
I will wait till MS tells me its ok...Fat chance I bet though..let someone else learnt what I did with my early 360s

Cueil5960d ago

if you unit has hdmi it's at least the falcon chipset so not a launch unit... I think most of those were tossed and the shell reused with Falcon or better

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Omar writes: "With the Horizon Festival coming to breathtaking Japan, you’ll need the essential gear to prove you’ve got what it takes to become a Horizon Legend as you cruise, drift and explore an open world full of spectacular driving experiences. That’s why we’re happy to announce the newest Limited Edition Xbox Wireless Controller and Wireless Headset collection, featuring inspired designs from Forza Horizon 6. The bright cyan and lime colorways celebrate the Horizon Festival’s recognition of iconic cars and hit music, with special features that are sure to impress any collector."

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Killer2020UK12d ago

Oh my, that is one gaudy design

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italiangamer14d ago

"Gaming’s Biggest Fighting Franchise"

Press X to (seriously) doubt.

DarXyde12d ago

Underrated comment. I used to hate that game so much that any time my siblings asked me to play it, I just picked Hom and shut myself down mid-match.

Soy12d ago

And then MK1 killed it again.

DivineHand12512d ago (Edited 12d ago )

15 years went by so fast. I remember playing through the story mode at launch.