Hope this doesn't mean we will get a gimped natal

Sounds like a bad idea, but I'll wait with my "meh" until at least one finished game is shown.

but if MS have promoted the hell out of it only to downgrade it at launch count me out, I want what has been shown, I don't want no diluted BS, but lets not jump the gun, give it chance.

I cannot stop laughing at this news. But but but, Natal is different than the PlayStation Eye. BWAHAHAHAHAHA. Natal is basically just a camera now.

Once again, you bots have been deceived by MS.

I used to work at Toyota about four years back. It sais on the window that a toyota corolla could get x ammount of miles out of a gallon of gas. Well, let me tell you, that's when you're grannying down the street. This 100 ms, to me, is still untrue. I still expect it's time be at least 150 ms.

Just what I'm thinking. Anyway, it's still too much.

"Microsoft drops xBox 360" ;-D

Come on Natal supporters... tell us all about how you think natal will still own even though MS talked smack and will fail to deliver so they can save costs and make it affordable.

The laggy demo that they displayed will only be worse without this chip. lol.

Hehe i guess pachter was right about 1 thing natal will be affordable but it just got a massive downgrade guess everything has to be downgraded for the 360 just look at ff13 and rage.

Just more broken promises from Microsoft, what else is new, Jump out.

Oh dear.

Lol reducing costs on hardware eh MS, we've heard that one before...I can only imagine natal RROD

I seriously got a chuckle at that.

This makes me chuckle like car commercials that claim to have higher mileages than other cars, but they don't tell you that is only a calculation based on ideal driving conditions and exactly no extra weight or pressure being exerted on the car, just a straight equation. Yes, Natal will only have a 100ms lag under ideal situations, wherein the lighting is at the perfect level, you are playing a game without a lot of processing, and you are playing in a room devoid of other movements/objects.

Also, no way in heck are they maintaining the same lag with a software emulation compared to a dedicated hardware device.

lagtal conformed.

The more they go towards Natal, the more it gets lame.
First the vids.
They don't show slow precise movements but only psyched people moving like mad: this trick hides all the huge amount of lag.
Without the dedicate processor, resources will be cut from 360, thus making Natal way too similar to what PSEye can do, so basically the only difference now is the program that runs in the background.

Before holiday 2010, Sony will have released the wand/gem that has tactile feedback/triggering (and vibration for sure) and will put the gamer in a 3D world (for the lucky ones that have 3D compatible HDTVs), while outputting a lossless 7.1 audio stream.

Guess what's the cooler overall experience?
Moving the body to appear on a screen or actually be surrounded by the experience?
As it has happened in the last 3 years media is salivating onb what MS is doing, but in the end Sony has showed to be the smartest competitor.
The story is going to repeat itself.

Frankly i think 360 gamers should be mad at M$ for wasting all their resources and several months on this Natal nonsense. The Wii has that market so no one is magically going to stop buying Wii for a Natal.

The fact that it releases in 2011 seals it's fate. This gives major opportunity for the ps wand to tap into the casual market and gain early market share. At this point the market will be over populated with two motion tech peripherals. I've said it before and i will say it again, M$ never had a chance.

So what's next ? They'll a controller to it ? Oh wait...

sparkly stickers for all

Sources say the chip will be replaced with a hamster wheel. Hamster sold seperately

If the CPU can handle it there is not a problem, if it can't then my bet is the chip will be used, either way it is no indication of failure, unless of course you are a *anboy.

So the xbox is becoming even more casual then? Looks like the game play will be sacrificed, awesome...

So just like RRoD which was supposedly caused by design compromises and shoddy cheap parts to keep prices low, Natal's being sacrificed for PR value.

Xbots are going to be sweating and biting their nails like crazy now until the next piece of natal news lol

LAG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

is that the fanbase is taking it again and again.

they gimped the hardware to save money.they are now gimping the camera to save money.but microsoft makes you pay for everything.

the funny thing is that they could do most of what they are trying to do with the vision cam.but they abandoned that too.

before they had potential.now it will be just for xbl navigation and simple games.i'll admit that the games should still look better than wii games,but they really shot themselves in the foot........AGAIN.

100ms that sucks!

It will be very interesting to see how taxing the calculations will now be on the xbox360.

It was previously stated that the Natal processor would interpret trillions of gestures in a 3d environment. If the camera is taking 30 pictures a second, the 360 would theoretically have to identify motions among more than 30 trillion possibilities. This would have to compromise any game's performance.

Seeing how Braid RRODed my 360 the first time, I will be playing lame dodgeball games on Natal because Gears on Natal would make my 360 and Natal overload and explode.

All of my comments were deleted as were many others. I thought the back and forth I was having with several other posters was rather tame yet all of them got deleted. What is going on mods? What did I do or the others do? TELL THE TRUTH? Is that a bad thing?

And so many say this is a pro Sony site.....yeah, I just busted that bubble of BULL CHIT.

Like it or not mods.....NATAL is now horribly gimped and will be full of shovelware to compensate for the chip loss.

A Sony fanboy.

Since most of you obviously fail too realize that MS is a software company that knows it's own tech better than what your speculations make you believe, I'll point out several things in the article that will help make you seem less stupid.

"The chip, which was responsible for processing information for the Natal's 'bone system,' has been removed in favour of a software solution."

"...the change doesn't have an effect on the existing system lag of about 100ms, while a software solution should enable Microsoft to update the system more quickly and regularly than a hardware solution, meanwhile hitting a previously-speculated price point of sub-USD 50/GBP 50..."

"The notion of offloading the processing to the 360 CPU in the name of lower costs and easier upgradability makes sense."

Who's responsible for this tech? People such as:

Andrew Blake, PHD.-Deputy Managing Director MS research
James Shotton, PHD (Cambridge)-MS Researcher
Andrew Fitzgibbon, PHD-Principal Researcher MS Research
Kudo Tsunoda
Peter Molyneux...just too name a few.

So, taking the previous into consideration and then taking that and knowing that contrary to popular belief, most gamers have ZERO idea of what any of the tech behind these products means, I'll take MS's word for it and wait for the actual product instead of ignorant fanboys on the internet.

http://hardware.teamxbox.co...

Innovation is when someone delivers something revolutionary and completely working.

What Natal wants to do is impossible to do flawlessly today with $ 400-ish of hardware.

MS wants to do a barbeque with stuffed ants.

.

All I see here is a bunch of the same Sony ass bangers doing there doom and gloom dance DESPERATELY trying to downplay Natal and acting as if this is devastating when you HAVE NO IDEA how the hardware/software works and what it will be like when it launches.

This has happend so much this gen and most of the time it's just plain wrong.

yep...many as I knew that had to do something to prevent Natal from doing the heavy lifting to keep the cost down...
MS is great at software....
Everyone knows a hardware solution is 10x better than a software solution....dvd upscaling vs native display...compressed audio vs non compressed...(and I know many cant tell the diff between crappy MP3 files vs uncompressed audio, but there is a night and day diff. between the 2, for those who can hear it)
Now if they sell Natal > 50 bucks = no buy for me and I am concerned if my launch 360 with its 20G disk can handle Natal..if not....no buy for me

Half the reason natal was so cool was the dedicated internal hardware for handling all the required cycles.

Now it's just going to be on the same, less cool, level as Gem.

Failtal on the way to get hit by the failtruck anything it had going is pretty much gone now.

This is the future for natal voice recognition.

it appears ms has lost some faith in this product. ms execs probably feel it wont be as well received by the 'casual gamer', as the wii has that area covered. the best thing to do is cut production costs and hope they recover r&d and production expenses. if it catches on with gamers, they can always bring out natal 2. ms would just have to produce the original design. this way ms gets paid twice for each original natal sold. it worked with the xbox 360, why not natal?

So does this mean the devs that got to work on games for Natal have to start over? Or start reworking what theyve already made?

I have a feeling Natal is gonna be delayed till spring 2011.

I knew M$ couldn't pull off all the crap they were promising with Natal. So now they're gimping it...haha.

Oh dear now Natal is going to rely on one core of the xenos that is lame. Personally, I would of prefer to keep the internal chip since it would of been using the three xenos cores instead of one and there would be less lag and it would be possible to patch up 360 game classics. Now that is gone there is hardly any possibility for true virtua reality lame.

I enjoy laughing at ms. All is right with the world.

SCREW NATAL AND GIVE ME A THE NEW XBOX MODEL BY CHRISTMAS!ITS TIME FOR THE 720 OR SO!

I'm actually shocked some people DON'T have a problem with this. The thing isn't even out yet and it's already being chopped up.

Who told this guy the news about Natal?!

This is bad news for 360 owners. The 360 needs all its processing power to try and keep pace with PS3 exclusives visually. This pretty much guarantees that Natal games won't look as good as non-Natal 360 games. And Natal games won't be hardcore blockbuster games. And Natal won't be backwards compatible with existing 360 games.

The PS3 has a lot more processing power in its CPU than the 360 so it can afford to use an SPU for motion gaming...most PS3 games and even most PS3 exclusives don't use all the SPUs.

Sony has already shown that PS3 motion is backwards compatible with visually impressive PS3 games...i.e. LBP and Resident Evil 5 which have top notch graphics.

I guess they needed to keep cost down. This can't be interpreted as anything other than good news for Sony. It seems clear to me that Sony will have the advantage over Nintendo and Microsoft in the motion control wars.

I wonder if they will remove poor Milos brain too.

dont understannd why someone would buy it. id take the ps wand with blueray and 3d capablities so you actually feel that you are in the game. it would be anothere dumb x360 owner purchase when for 300 bucks you get blueray, web browser,free online,best games,3d,netflix, dedicated servers,gameshareing, etc plus more and all the stuff is for games and movies. you aint hardcore if you dont own a ps3 thats fact

This is old news, but it seems the back lash is over rated again.
and like i said the lag that is quoted on that web sight is lies, we should start tagging web comments.........:)

How about Backwards Compatible?? What was that chip called that sony cut off that was supposed to emulate ps2 games?? THE EMOTION ENGINE. YES! Why is that cut off?? because sony can't figure out how to emulate ps2 games on the cell and since they are losing 5.6 billions since the launch of the ps3 they don't want to waste any more money or resources on it so they give you a B.S story about fans not caring about playing ps2 games when in fact ps2 had one of the best lineups in history.

My 60 Gig launch ps3 has two additional USB 2.0 ports, flash memory readers, and SACD playback ?? What happened to those sony??

Why did they decided to go matte black instead of the nice piano fisnih they had with the debut version?? cutin on more??. F^ck sakes sony what else is left?? The two touch buttons for the eject and power?? Oh wait they cut those out too. F^ck sakes!

you see my little friends. sony is great at cut downs, and even better at bullsh!tting us about why they do it. When sony does it, it's called a great idea but if MS does it it's called Garbage. The biggest bunches of hypocrites are sony fans second to none.

I don't care how the hardware works. And is the same for casual crowd. I will buy one if is going to work OK.

one step closer to the edge

my theory is they have realised the precision issues means natal will struggle with existing games therefore there is no point including a hardware processing solution which would allow for retro compatibility with existing titles.
Who is going to play forza or halo with natal?
Better to reduce costs and let the cpu tackle the processing even if it impacts the graphics. This confirms to me MS are pitching towards casuals rather than the hardcore.

So not only will Natal drain 360 of much needed power, but it will rob the 360 the prospect of backwards compatibility as well.

Great job Microsoft!

This is what happened,

Microsoft saw Killzone 2 and Uncharted 2 turned around and looked at Halo odst and Project Fatal and pretty much said "XBOX720"

With over 125 million PS2 sold and still selling It's OK to cut cost by leaving the Emotion Engine out but you CAN STILL PLAY PS2 GAMES ON A PS3.

Project Fatal is already being gimped before it arrives. And to boost sales I'm sure it will come packed with MW2 stickers and a coupon for Halo Reach, as in reached the end of console life expectancy.

Natal will also have RROD plus the 360