I agree with the article, really the Wii is for kids. Nintendo makes that clear everyday. I think it is great that children have their own console. I don't want/like to play with kids in online games that is why I am thankful for the Wii. Jack Trenton said in a GT interview that he thinks Nintendo's sales are great. Because they know eventually those kids will eventually become Sony customers in some form. Wii is the gateway drug, why is that a bad thing? Let the kids have their own console. Including Wii into the "console war" argument is like including the super soaker in the handgun market..It is silly.

"The Wii is not even a blip on the HD, next gen console radar. Sure it sells but it is in no way comparable to the more hardcore gaming consoles."

Yeah - the wii actually sells for a profit at numbers sony and ms would kill for.

The wii is for kids? Hey, more morons who don't own wiis trolling the section.

I have been saying this for awhile. The Wii largely appeals to a different demographic and is not a direct competitor to the PS3 or 360. There might be a 10% overlap or something like that, but the vast majority of consumers are not going to be standing in the store saying "hmm...should I get a Wii or a PS3".

Saying the Wii is a direct competitor to the HD consoles would be like saying that a Fisher Price kid's camera is a direct competitor to the better digital cameras from Sony or Panasonic. Sure, they're all cameras, but that doesn't mean that they are directly competing with one another.

As far as the competition between the PS3 and the 360, I think it is great. Most gamers understand that it has been a boon to gaming. The competition helps to bring out the best of both companies. I personally don't care which company "wins". I like both consoles and both consoles are doing extremely well.

I actually do own a Wii, Turd. I bought it a launch as a matter of fact. Today it sits in my spare bedroom hooked up to an older TV for my Nieces/Nephews and friends kids to play when they come over for get togethers. I gave up trying to buy mature games for it because there are little to no games worth owning that are for me. I just rent games for it every once in a while. I did buy Wii Sports resort and plan on picking up Super Mario Wii when that comes out. The kids love going up and playing on it all day.

Hey look! Another moron that must have ESP to decipher who owns a Wii and who doesn't, and he does it over the interwebz!

Hey, I just want my console of choice to have the better games and that's why I support it. If not many people supports it then third party's don't put care in the ports and don't make any games exclusively that can use certain aspects to its maximum.

@ oobob

It is true that the Wii is the most financially viable of the consoles, but it appeals to a different market for the most part. If you look at the HD twins' library, aside from the few exclusives like Gears of War, Halo, Uncharted, Killzone, etc., they're mostly the same. The Wii on the other hand is drastically different to the other two consoles in processing power, game library, and game play experience.

All of the consoles offer something great, but the Wii is for those looking for that experience that can only be found on the Wii.

IDK. Whatever anyone's personal opinion of the Wii it really is responsible for two or three amazing things.

Firstly, and most importantly imo, it saved us from a world sans Ninty in the console market and they were a large force behind many of us getting into gaming in the first place.

Secondly, it found a new market and has grown the industry as a whole by doing so-something that all three of them will profit from in the long run as these newer gamers tastes change and they either move on or Ninty find a way of keeping them inrerested and on a Ninty console.

Thirdly, they changed the overall demographic of the console gaming world to an extent where, whether you agree with this article or not, Nintendo have, until now(with imminent Sony Wands and Natal)anyway, spread the maket to a point where it is possible to say that they're selling to a different crowd than Sony and MS this gen.

Does that mean it's a two horse race for those old PS2 and Xbox and, possibly, GC owners when they tade up? IDK but I do see what you could think due to Ninty's own stance of late topwards more mature gameas on their console. Compared to the core support on PS360, even from first party games, there's just a lot more than there is and has been on the Wii-and why would they change with all the cash rolling in?

I'm not sure Ninty really know whether to chase after the core gamers as well as pleasing the more casuals that are a vast part of their market as a whole really. They wouldn't, and I think it's telling, publish Fatal Frame in the west and the support from them for third party games like Madworld , Muramasa and the like this year is non existent and as a result they failed. Wat if they'd been available on PS360? They'd , at least, have had demos for the interested or unsure online for playing and they didn't even really push Puchout as they should have as one of their own-I always see MKWii and Wii Fit ads to this day but never once have I seena Punchout!! ad on TV-and so on.

As I say IDK if Ninty are just unsure of their next step-they've done so well financially that change might be scary for them but they'll need to offer something more as their new market gets more sophisticated in it's tastes(and it will -we were all casual about this once)-or risk losing them to the other two who are preparing something right up their alley it would appear.

Two horse race? IDK. I think both Sony and MS are moving part of their thinking towards the Wii's end of the market and also feel that Ninty will have to push their own more core titles(like the upcoming Metroid, SMG2, S&P2 etc) AND help 3rd party games more if the market is to be brought together and competed for as it once was.

While I don't see things like the article I do think that there's an argument that Ninty has been appealing to people who just aren't those who bought gamecubes or PS2 last time around. I would have felt different last Xmas with a list of games I was really up for coming to Wii this year but the way many turned out allied to the lack of support for the others left me thinking that maybe Nintendo had given up trying to keep the "core" gamer happy.

It's all supposition on my part and I'm not trying to troll anything but do wonder what Ninty thinks about those Wii owners who aren't getting the same service they would from the games available on PS360-are Nintendo really interested in what happens when the newer gamer starts wanting a little more from their gaming or do they imagine there's a never ending supply of newcomers at a levekl where they can fill the gap at a profit. Certainly I see the moves from the other two towards the Wii user market but not much in the other direction(which would help Ninty also keep what they found).

Whatever anyone thinks of the Wii, though, byinging new blood to the hobby will only be a good thing, imo, but mostly in the long run if you're a more seasoned gamer/someone who prefers the nmore adult titles commonly found on PS360 and PC these days. We'll see but nothing's set in stone and, say, a few more titles could change things a lot- a new Zelda, SMG2, Metroid Dread AND Other M perhaps? A Mario Wii RPG? More support and demos for Wii games from 3rd parties>? It's all possible and not that hard to imagine. Maybe even WiiHD or an HD enabling add-on? Then the market would, indeed converge once again, imo.

See, I don't think this is a three-sided war at all. It's most DEFINITELY a two-sided war: PS3 AND 360... vs. Wii. This is about the hardcore against the casual.

Except most PS3 fanboys are obsessed with taking snarky potshots at 360, and 360 fanboys are blind to the issues keeping 360 merely "good enough" to stay ahead of PS3. Meanwhile, Wii keeps putting up incredible sales numbers and grabbing more mind share with dirt cheap hardware and mediocre design.

Seriously, hardcores need to learn to get along. Now. Get over your hatred for the other company. Stop having these "true gamer" debates between hardcores. Nintendo is destroying gaming... and to ignore Nintendo as a competitor in this generation is to let Nintendo walk all over our hobby. You want to indict a company for shredding our favorite pastime in favor of profit? Point the finger squarely at Nintendo.

I guess that means the 360 is in first, and the ps3 is still in dead last. Its second place though, but then again, second place means you were the first to lose.

Hey, you aren't allowed to like Uncharted AND Zelda!
It's proposterous to like Gears of War AND Super Mario Galaxy!
People who play Gran Turismo or Forza simply can't enjoy Mariokart!
If you like Killzone then it's your responsibility as a gamer to hate Metroid!
Obviously, high def graphics makes EVERY game FUN! and SD graphics makes games monotonous and boring. /sarcasm

This is the worst excuse for an 'article' that I've ever read. It's the lowest form of fanboy drivel. What's obvious to me is that this is written by some snot nosed child that can't accept that a console with less processing power could possibly be kicking the sh!t out of their favourite console. Too many games throw gameplay out the window in favour of graphics and urinate on fun in favour of 'realism'. I STILL break out the original Super Mario Brothers, Zelda, and Metroid games from time to time. Does that mean I'm not a gamer because I like games with bad graphics or does that mean I am MORE of a gamer because I like games that are FUN?! As long as gamers are buying and enjoying Nintendo games and consoles then guess what? That's right, Nintendo is a competitor. Deal with it.

Edit: In other news, Pixar movies are for kids. Real movie fans don't watch movies for kids.

Edgeofblade-IDK if Ninty have done anything but look after themselves this generation and don't you reckon we all started gaming casually? If so won't a high percentage of new Wii gamers have their yasres develop beyond the games they began with? If so they'll migrate to PS360 as it stands unless Ninty start doing what MS and Sony are doing now and target both ends of the market.

Won't more gamers eventually mean more games? Surely that's possible, no? And consider tha fatc that the so called "core" gaming market has to be split three ways(PS/360/PC) whereas Ninty has had a free run at the casuals this gen. Add the numbers of PC/PS3 and 360 gamers together and suddenly(esp with those still playing PS2 which theres million sdoing)the market looks a more even split between the new and old gamer anyway.

This cannot be lost on the vom[panies and is why the thing I find most interesting is when and if Nintendo start making real moves to protect what they've found. Would you be happy if you'd had to play the same kind of thing that you started off with in gaming forever? I con't think SI would have kept me gaing for 30 years anyway!

Yes, there will ALWAYS be fresh gamers for Ninty(and anyone else) to appeal to but soon the first wave of Wii gamers will start to either fall out of gaming or want a little more and the real winner long term might well be the one who gets these gamers to join their existing share of the core market. Competing with Ninty for the newer gamers is aimed at offsetting the fact the usual gamer market is split three ways and, I feel, if Ninty want to stay where they are they need to appeal more across the board than at present.

One amazing selling console means little long term if it just becomes a breeding ground for other companies.

"It is true that the Wii is the most financially viable of the consoles, but it appeals to a different market for the most part."

PC gamers love the wii cause it offers games they can't get on pc, most of which are found on the other two consoles.

I own a wii and ps3 and gaming pc. I got the ps3 after the wii got me back into console gaming from a 10 year lapse. I have 40 wii games (gamefly sales w00t). I've gamed since NES. I have a Jaguar. Same market + some. It appeals to a different market in part..but it also appeals to the same market as offering the type of video games we can't find on the HD consoles - classic games that aren't watered down PC titles!

If the wii is collecting dust or used by your kids, you don't pay attention to wii games. Hardcore wii games, short list:

Zelda
Metroid (now 3 of em soon other M)
SMG
Super Mario Bros
Call of Duty 3, WAW, Reflex
Mercury Meltdown Revolution
Bikini Zombie Slayers
HOTD 2, 3, Overkill
Madworld
The Conduit
Godfather
Manhunt 2 (with filter hack via homebrew)
Muramasa
No More Heroes (soon NMH 2)
Tastunoko vs Capcom
Sin and Punishment 1/2 (1 not available in us cept on virtual console)
A Boy and His Blob
Fire Emblem
Monster Hunter 3
Contra Rebirth
Mega Man 9
RE4
Chop Till you Drop (on RE4 engine for awesome aiming)
Kolona
SSBB
Final Fantasy Titles
Medal of Honor
Zack and Wiki
Little King's Story
Geometry Wars
Marble Games that are spiritual successors to marble madness, one of the most hardcore NES games
A Boy and his Blob
Guilty Gear
MK Armageddon
Okami

If I was in my living room I'd mention more titles I own and can't recall atm. God, this is how we know who has a wii - if you actually followed the games you'd have a mad list of hardcore titles.

"One amazing selling console means little long term if it just becomes a breeding ground for other companies."

You have fundamentally misunderstood the blue ocean strategy of nintendo if you believe this.

". Nintendo is destroying gaming... "

Nintendo looked at data showing gaming populations were shrinking. They decided to expand the population to keep it alive and viable. Sony and MS don't care - they have other interests in media control (media hub center) that their consoles are used to compliment. Nitnendo is a gaming company and they had to respond.

Destroying gaming? THEY SAVED IT ONCE ON NES. The wii has the same style of games as NES and SNES that Sony and MS killed! We miss those games and wii brought them back! Meanwhile you think they're killing gaming for beating systems that offer watered down pc titles? If anything the ps3 and xbox hurt pc gaming, where all your favorite games like Fallout and Oblivion and COD came from! Oh wait...are you too young to realize bungie started making PC/Mac games?

If the xbox and ps3 disappeared every game for those systems would appear on pc. If the wii disappeared those games wouldn't exist. That is the appeal of the wii - an actual console experience akin to SNES, not "pc lite."

When I was a kid NES track and field was a hardcore sought after game and the pad was loved. Mario Paint was the ultimate SNES time waster. I grow up and suddenly Wii fit and wii music are casual because you can't shoot people in the head?

"While I don't see things like the article I do think that there's an argument that Ninty has been appealing to people who just aren't those who bought gamecubes or PS2 last time around"

THIS. THIS RIGHT HERE. The last gen killed console gaming as we knew it on SNES...now I have to deal with people telling me the wii is killing gaming for bring back what I grew up with!

@ blackmagic

You made the case for me..no one is saying you can't enjoy the Wii, we are all saying it is in a different category. You even admitted it! Everyone here has. Yes Pixar movies are for kids.. But most logical people would tell you that Pixar's a direct competitor only to Dreamworks and Sony animation studios, not to Horror movies or Action films. Which is all we are saying.

No reason to be so offensive for your favorite console. It is ok, I buy Wii games and give Wii games as gifts to children. I am a hardcore gamer who can enjoy casual games.

To go back to your movie analogy, if Pixar releases a film and 2 of the biggest bloodiest horror movies releases the same week, people will always expect the Pixar film to sell more tickets because it has a broader audiance. Is is really fair to say that Pixar is the same category as the horror films because it is a movie. Most hardcore fans wouldn't touch the Pixar films and the Kids can't even see the 2 horror films unless they have parents that don't care. No most logical people will say the 2 hardcore films where competing and the Pixar film was the alternative for the family and younger audience which is the larger base.

OOB- I owned my wii for a year before I bought my PS3.. I finally broke down and spent 500 bones for a PS3 (80 gig w/motorstorm). I tried to have the Wii hold my attention but it didn't. Then, once the trophy update came out for my PS3 then there was no reason to ever game on my Wii, sorry. In fact I still play my Wii when a new nintendo game comes out, like Mario or Zelda. but other then that the hardcore games that you mentioned suck compared to the PS3/360 hardcore lineup. and when I play on my PS3, I get a perment record of my playthrough that goes to a score that I can show off to friends.

"Yes Pixar movies are for kids.."

Like HD console games are for kids who can't afford a PC to play them in better than hd resolution, 8xAA and 16x AF at 70+fps with a mouse, free mods, and better + free online.

Well OOB someday you may own a large HD TV and understand why Wii is for kids and why PC gameing is not always the best way to experance a game from your living room.

And your right I had a Nintendo (NES, and SNES)as a kid, why should it be so wrong that the kids of today have a Nintendo as well? It is not a bad thing to think of the console as a kids machine.

I own a 40'' 1080p hdtv and LCD projector ;) Both have vga inputs for my pc with a wireless mouse and keyboard - all in my living room. Also a usb controller and soon a bluetooth receiver to use my wiimote on. My PC doubles as a tivo and gaming system. Only kids can't figure out how to hook that up.

Answer one question for me. What is so wrong with me or anyone else saying the Wii is a kid's console?

We had one when we where kids it was a kids console then..wasn't it? Nintendo tried to compete with sony and MS last gen and lost. That is why the went back to their original market..KIDS..Like they did when we where young.

Last gen Nintendo paid Capcom and Konami for exclusive rights to Resident Evil and Metal Gear games. They even developed a great original IP Eteranal Darkness. But in the end they could not compete with Sony and MS..because they where trying to be all things. With the Wii they changed their strategy. and it was brilliant!! instead of trying to go head to head they said there is a new generation of gamers like there was in the 80s and 90s that need a console for them. A console parents can get behind, that will bring the core franchises into play, Mario, Zelda, Metroid. Why is it so disrepectful for you to believe it is a kids console? Just let go your motion sensing and realize it was great when I was a kid, it is great now and it is great for kids now.

@bandit- I would but I am at work..lol
Isn't this a "DISCUSSION" forum.. what is wrong with having a discussion with the Wessel/hedgehog.

Go play some video games. :)

@ oobob

A fellow Jaguar owner! If you play it regularly, make sure to get your hands on a Jaguar Pro controller if you don't already own one. I got one to replace the default controller and my god it's so much more comfortable. Severely underrated console in my opinion.

oobob said:
"If the xbox and ps3 disappeared every game for those systems would appear on pc. If the wii disappeared those games wouldn't exist. That is the appeal of the wii - an actual console experience akin to SNES, not "pc lite."

Why do you say that? PS3 has a variety of kid friendly games...since PS1 in fact.

Also, much like Nintendo, Sony makes their own games. In fact, Sony makes MORE first party games than Nintendo, so I'm trying to understand how you came to this and/or what you meant, oobob.

@ beast_master
Actually, I don't own a Wii and it's not my favourite console at all but I am not so arrogant, as many are on this site, to say it isn't a competitor. It is. I have tried all the titles I mentioned and they are a lot of fun and it does have many games that directly compete with the hardcore games on ps3 and 360 and they play just as well, they just don't look as pretty which has very little to do with gameplay anyway. I know more people that own a wii than I know that own a ps3 or 360 combined and that is saying something.

Yes, the Wii is friendly to the casual crowd but it has titles that appeal to the hardcore too and just because a game is casual or family friendly doesn't mean it's not fun. The truth is that the kids and casual players of this generation could easily turn out to make up the bulk of the hardcore gamers of the next generation and they will all have the memories of the wii in their minds just as many of us fondly remember the NES and SNES.

Next generation could easily be owned by Nintendo for casuals and hardcore alike if they play it out correctly... God knows they are already rocking this generation and I respect that. That is what a competitor is. ps3 and 360 are old-school and I am an old-school gamer but Nintendo is the one that is driving innovation and I am looking at Sony and MS desperately trying to get their motion controllers out the door to catch up. The new gamers are on Wii and they are the next wave. Wii 2 could concievably be on the market in 2010 if Nintendo wanted with better visuals and motion control before sony or ms even have a solution. What then? I'm not saying it WILL happen, I am just saying it's possible and it's downright stupid to dismiss Nintendo as a non-competitor. s-t-u-p-i-d.

"Answer one question for me. What is so wrong with me or anyone else saying the Wii is a kid's console?"

It's insulting, dismissive, and and ignores that I always hear teenage voices on psn chat or xbox live. Or that most people I know who own a console own a wii and are adults.

The sony exclusives are generally unique enough, that's why I bought the ps3. More specifically I was talking about the fps overkill on the hd consoles. Even games like burnout are on pc. Sony exclusives are good, and I'm not only talking about Nintendo titles. Games like super monkey ball and muramasa are console titles with classic console gameplay. Most games on wii are like this. The wii disappears and they're gone.

I'll look up the jaguar pro controller for sure...I just got AvP, tempest, trevor mcfur, raiden, Troy Aikmen football (lol), and a couple others...

If you guys had played more than PS2 games and xbox last gen you have pretty much played the cream of the crop of FPS and you have half life to the quakes and COD on PC with all the mods.

You use to have two parts of gaming PC gaming and console gaming now we have the two mixing on the HD console. Sure it sounds like a great idea but you have to realize HD console are the element of PC developers where cost does not matter. What they want to make matters and not even sales when you start to look at it from the out side.

So yes the HD console are not competing with the Wii because it is the only real console out. What you guys are saying is exactly what my friend where saying when I tried to get them into the PS2. They where PC gamers where every game had to have online and mod tools. They could not stand playing inferior games.

Now some of you on here have HDtvs that are just not compatible with SD. There are TVS that are HD that display SD better in an HD format. I'm sure you know about them but walmart must of had a sale right? For these guys I understand you don't want it to look like you made a bad purchase then on top of that it cost you so much money right?

On top of this seemly adults complain about kids owning their system when all or most of the HD system owners can not afford HDtvs many developers already knew this. On top of this console gaming is for kids because it's cheaper. If you still like it then it's because maybe you are hardcore and don't care but to proclaim that HD system are for adults is a little silly because they clearly are not about adult hood PC are which is why adults game on PCs... Now if you are having a hard time figuring out how to do a living room PC set up don't sweat it, it is very easy hell I play SF4 that way all the time and even capture my brawls for later. Yes you can do this on PC.

What is sad is some of you believe console gaming is an adult thing, no it still is very much for kids LOL. The game play is mostly about killing stuff. I mean what happens if a truly adult game comes out like a drama? I'm betting it won't sell.

The games that do appeal to kids on the HD systems are seriously lame also. With that much power you would think we would see more imagination at work. Yet for some reason MS and SONy believe that only hardcore adult gamers want their products and these guys only want realism.

I believe this is why you guys hate nintendo because they did not grow up with you and console gaming did not either it just put on some PC clothes with less power.

What is funny is you guys want to think that nintendo will not make a powerful system next gen which is as hilarious as HP dell or any other manufacture not making a powerful system or PC solution for sale.

Seriously you just want nintendo gone yet I think it is you guys who are in the wrong place... it's time to upgrade and come back to adult gaming guys and it's all on PCs. Leave the console stuff to the new comers.

You guys are n opposition with your selves not nintendo. This is what happens when a gamer grows up. Before you could just say other just did not understand but now they are gaming because of the Wii and maybe that ruined the coolness of gaming to you maybe, yet gaming was never about being cool it was about cool games. Stop acting like the system you have makes you a certain person.

Only sheep would buy a system and not play it. Think about that, and sheep are not that hardcore.

blackmagic -- Right on.

oobob -- Give it up, man. I've lost count of how many times I've brought up core games for Wii. I think in some other thread we came up with like 40, and that wasn't without even going to metacritic or anything. I doubt most people have played half of 'em, let alone beat 'em. If some folks want to ignore fantastic games, they're missing out.