the cell is powerful.
but the ps4 will be better.

The great thing about CPUs is that they're software-bound, while GPUs are hardware-bound. RSX has definite, set limits while Cell can be utilized in a myriad of ways. It's a good combination.

At the end of the day, Gears still looks so much better and you'd all probably spend alot more time on that than Lair.
:)

we know your trying to hype up the machine you're designing exclusively for to hopefully increase your profits by increasing the ps3 install base.

give it up already...

So if the power of the cell is limitless why do the games not look better than real life? Sound like a load of crap to me.

What's up with your Mart obsession?
I mean,to take the time to create that picture"I Hate The Mart",
is kind of juvenile,don't you agree?
Even your lowest form of Sony troll has more integrity then that.

Taken from beyond3d:

In [b]Lost Planet[/b], each character is 10-20K polys. A VS robot is 30-40K polys. A background is about 500K. With shadows and other hidden rendering cost, it's about [b]3 million[/b] polys per frame.

Different platforms require different care, would not be surprised if ppl working on 360 and suddenly dropping their datasets onto RSX would not observe good numbers (and viceversa)
Now..I can't see how RSX, if used in the right way, should be so limited at vertex processing: in HS we easily render 2-2.5 MTriangles per frame at 30 fps without being VS limited and without making any use of CELL to speed up vertex shading and I know for sure that being more clever we could even go faster..[b](just using the GPU)[/b]

The numbers quoted about HS are slighty wrong..cause a few days a go I realized there's a bug in the code that computes the triangle count: in some cases it's more close to [b]3M triangles[/b] per frame mark than 2M.

Regarding cpu, yes its totally different arguments. The 360's is a very standard setup, a bunch of cores that can all see main memory. The advantage to this is that lots of thread coded written over the years can be ported to it easily. For example, Valve (the Half Life guys) are writing an entirely threaded engine for the PC. When it's done, porting it to the 360 will be easy. How about porting it to the PS3? Nope, won't work, it's a totally different setup. The PS3's main core is basically the same, but its spu's can't see main memory. Each one has 256k that it can work with, so you need to rewrite your code to pack things into 256k chunks, feed it to the spu's to process it, then copy it all back to main memory. In other words, you've gotta rewrite your code.

Now before I get jumped on here let me briefly mention the downsides. The 360's cpu setup is painfully easy to code for. But, they really aren't all that fast. Worse yet, all three cores use the same memory controller so the three cores are not three times the power of the one core on the PS3 due to some overhead. The PS3's spu's on the other hand are monstrously fast. You need to setup your data correctly to work with them, but once thats done then yes, [b]the 360's cpu setup is crap compared to fully working spu's.[/b] I say fully working because most current games out there barely even touch on them, it will take time to re-write everything. I haven't done spu coding....yet. I will be though in 2007 which will be pretty cool.

If the DEV who is fuking making the game says that it can not be put onto the 360 that means it cannot be put onto the 360. Are you a DEV? are any of you 360 Artards devs? no your fuking not. So get the fuk out of the PS3 section because most of you dont even intend on buying a PS3 so why are you here? jealous? need to prove to yourself that the 360 was a warranted purchase? why are you here?

yet another article to spur a flame war. tired...boring...just give me good games on either console.

He wants to make love to the PS3.

I am not trying to insult anyone or start a flame war.. just looking for a logical answer.

If the cell power is "Limitless" which means... uhhh... it has no limit and its power can be reached... you know more like Pi=3.14..... and the universe... (yeah few time the word Limitless is use when it comes to electronics) does this mean that CPUs can't get any faster or perform any better?

Also can someone explain to me why IBM had to use 8 PS3(if I am not mistaken) to demo Ray-Tracing. Also why IBM selling CELL blade (cell base computers) with multiple cell CPU sometimes even 7 Cells.
If 1 is limitless why would you need 7 limitless?

Also, does this mean they don't have to worry about optimization since the CPU has no limit, so poor code will simply be process faster? Then how come some PS3 games have framerate issues?

Nonesense!, man i feel sorry for this guy Sonys making him do all the sh*t talking for them in a last desprate attempt to hype up PS3 fictional abilities.

But I am pretty sure I could tax the cell by just a couple of lines of code:
int i = 1;
while(i > 0)
{
i++;
}

I love how people say that they only used 20% of the cell or 30% of the xbox. Seriously most optimization is done by using less cpu cycles to achieve the same task, which in turn frees up cpu cycles to perform other tasks. Turning linear or quadratic algorithms into logarithmic or constant algorithms. This is how you achieve optimizations. Any rookie programmer can write poorly performing algorithms or infinite loops.

PS3 developer saying the ps3 is limitless, HMMMMMMMM. Factor 5 is crawling over sony this gen, it's no surprise.

But limitless? Come on. It is a great processor, but limitless is a bit of a stretch too far.

It must be tough being a developer. You give a interview and people all over the world who have never done programing will comment and tell you what you said was wrong. Some will have done some programming but not for the PS3 yet they feel they are able to comment on developing for the PS3, but how can this guy say its not possible on the 360 when he has never made a game for the 360? See the irony there?

I am not a programmer. When people start talking tech stuff at the level the 360 or the PS3 works I certainly can't argue it or debate it because I truly don't fully understand and I work in IT. What I do know is what I can see. When I look at Lair in those developer walk thru videos that have come out over the last few days and read what they are doing it is truly impressive.

I remember watching the Sony announcement at E3 2005. I had goosebumps from watching the feed. Of course since then we have learned that what they had said was overstated. Motorstorm has come out and while it does not match the CGI graphics it still a remarkable game, certianly something we would not have seen on last gen hardware. Now I see this on Lair, with a world that is 32km X32km, 20,000ft ceiling, 1000's of troops fighting on the ground. Water that is amazing, boats that react to the waves and when they blow up ripple the water. Detail is the same at 1m or 20,000ft. Really there is so much going on its truly mind blowing to me that this is even possible. Add that its going to be running at 1080p while doing all this and for me, the PS3 is a beast.

If this kind of game is capable of being made this early in the development cycle and you look how far God of War 2 is pushing the PS2 7 years later is it any wonder a developer would say, "But Cell is pretty limitless at this point." I certainly don't think so. I can only imagine the games to come as developers get more and more of a handle on developing and optimizing games for the PS3.

I know some will call me a fanboy for saying what I just did. Sure I am pumped on what I am seeing here but I hope we will see similar things on the 360. We should all want to hear developers say we have just scratched the surface of what is possible on these next gen systems.

One last thing. I remember when guys like TheMart use to blast the PS3 because the only games it could do in 1080p was Virtual Tennis. The logic was well sure it can cause not much is going on. Games that have alot of action and things will never see this and yet impressively we are and the response? Nothing special, looks boring. <boggle>

You guys are all missing one important thing about todays gaming consoles - it's not about hardware, it's about SOFTWARE. If you don't have the software, the hardware will fail.

Games - it's NOT about graphics and special FX, it's about gameplay and atmosphere.

Can anyone here tell me what is the REAL difference between, for example, Tekken 3 and Tekken 6, besides graphics and sound fx? NOTHING! It's still a fighting game. Same goes for HALO series on the XBOX 360 - more of the same. Same sh*t, different packaging.

And look at the games - violence only: "God of WAR", "Gears of WAR", "KILLZONE", etc.

What's the big difference between Resistance, FarCry, Doom3, Quake4, Call of duty... I'm really sick of seeing the same sight every time - the same hand holding a gun, a bomb, a sword... That hasn't changed since the original Doom (1993.). They just pump up resolution and graphics in general, add more blood and gore...Tadaaaaah - we have a "new", "mind-blowing", "fantastic" and "original" FPS.

And what the hell is with you people arguing about PS3 and XBOX 360 capabilities ?!!? Who gives a sh*t which one has better graphics and more powerfull CPU, GPU, larger memory, more efficiant architecture (except for developers)? Fact is that PS3 will NEVER have graphics THAT BETTER to put XBOX 360's graphics to shame (like, do you really care is you game is running at 90fps or 60fps - it doesn't matter, it's still running smooth). Maybe it will have higher polygon count, more shader effects or whatever, but most of the people won't see any difference, unless they really want to see. This is one of the main reasons why WII is selling so good - a low-priced console for everyone, with revolutionary controller, with simplistic, non-violent, games.

(sorry for possible bad-English)...

Quote:
"But I am pretty sure I could tax the cell by just a couple of lines of code:
int i = 1;
while(i > 0)
{
i++;
}
"

1- If i is a 128b variable, it could use only one register.
2- The i plus 1 (i++) could be a inc (increment) instruction.
3- 319014718988380000000000000000 0(2^128 / Cell clock * 3 instruction) seconds after program start will occur a overflow exception.

Thoughts about 3:
- No memory access needed (only for code load);
- No cache needed;
- Dependent code: The narrow 2 issue in order PPE could not be used totally.

This isn't even close to being true but believe what you will sony fans, that's what there counting on.

On a further note, think for a minute people. The ps3 has 256k graphics card plus some small amout of the other memory and I do mean small, spread this over the supposed 7 cores, does that sound like limitless power to you? LOL!!! No way. It's if anything strained to it's core, no pun intended.

dont you think if hes going far enough to
say the cell is limitless who knows
what else hes "strechting" the truth about

As I stated in a early post I am not going to argue specs. You seem to keep harping on them so much but have you worked with the PS3? No, so what you have to say about what it can or can't do and its limitations are pure speculation on your part. I am personally getting tired of people who have not worked with the PS3 tell me and other PS3 owners what the system is capable of and also go on to discredit anything anyone who has worked with it as being wrong and talking crap.

Example - Scott Henson, Director of the Microsoft Game Technology Group

"I think 1080p, just to address that directly, will be basically impossible. I think if you talk to any developer they will tell you that they will not have a performing game at 1080p."

http://games.kikizo.com/new...

Yet here we have a game that's got more stuff going on then I have seen in any game yet with amazing physics, lighting, weather, in a huge 32km X 32km world, etc all at 1080p and yet I have to still put up with people like you who tell me what I am seeing is not real and the developer is full of sh!t. So forgive me that I grow tired off people telling me what the PS3 can't do when I can see for myself what it can and it amazes me and many others. Even Kotaku eyes have been open.

New Lair Footage... Holy Crap!

Factor 5 and Sony had a Lair event a couple weeks ago, showing off the latest build of their PLAYSTATION 3 exclusive. I may have done my share of poo-pooing of the flying dragon game in the past, but it really does look like it's coming together.

http://kotaku.com/gaming/ps...

So you can keep on going on about 256mb of ram for the GPU just don't cut it, very much like MS saying the PS3 would have no 1080p games but the games will prove you both wrong and to think this is just the begining for the PS3.

Well I can surely say it's a beast but nothing is "limitless" if it was we wouldn't keep upgrading computers and consoles. Dumb ass comment

Nothing is limitless, not even the fuel burning in the sun. I think the point he's trying to make is the cell is heaps powerful for this gen and if we are limited it will be by our own expertise or imagination.

Get over it now. Take a comment with a grain of salt.

And for all of you'se saying he likes Sony cos he works for them, you have everything arsebackwards as usual. He works for them cos he likes Sony/PS3 not the other way round. And why would he have to kiss arse just cos he works with them. Aren't you the same clown who were rejoicing when you thought Dave Jaffe was dissing BR? But that what you do isn't it. Take one little comment or remark and debate it all day as if you were actually accomplishing something or maybe pursuading a PS3 owner/wannabe owner into turning to the green side. Some of you kids are too much. I would have thought you'd have to many games to play, and not so much time on your hands, but I guess not.

PS. Bladestar, when are you going to get a PS3? I mean, whats stopping you? and dont say no games because there are already good games on it and more coming as you well know. If I had your sort of Money I'd buy 2 just to have one in the living room and one in my bedroom. I cant believe anyone on your income wouldn't get one cos of price.

It clearly states that by when he says limitless is that at this point it seems that he can keep on optimizing forever.

And who's the genius that brought GeOW up. PS3 has only been out for 6 months and GeOW did come out a few months after that point. Also the graphics of GeOW are only that high because the game took cuts elsewhere so give it up, there are much better games coming out gameplay and graphics wise

It amazes me the quantity of people that come onto this site to regurgitate technical specifications they have read but have zero understanding of.

I honestly think that unless you are either
a) a games designer
b)a console hardware engineer or
c) an extremely gifted tech guru (like Ben Heck) then your comments about Cell, Xenos, teraflops and all other such jargon mean precicely squat.

Both systems are very evenly matched, ask developers working on both systems or doing ports and they will tell you this. Sure each console has its respective strengths but neither machine really outclasses the other.

At the end of the day, why do you care about all of this techie mumbo jumbo unless you are actually in the business of making games. Does someone out there actually play through Gears and then say afterwards, "yeah it was good but it doesn't have as many polygons as Lair"

Nonsense!

I think that the F.E.A.R. comparison doing the rounds today crystalises the debate; if differences in visual fidelity are going to be that imperceptable then both sides of the idiotic fanboy debate will win. The trouble is neither side will notice because they will be too busy slinging peurile insults at each other on comments sections like this one.