Completely agreed. I really really hope that Natal turns out to be everything they imagine with Milo and stuff. It would really be revolutionary. What they showed on stage though was like an upgraded EyeToy.

Sony's motion control was demonstrated live and it was incredible with true 1 to 1 motion controls. I can't wait until Sony's big developers get their creative hands on this technology.

But then again, most people don't even have an Eyetoy to begin with. Myself included.
Then that would be an Eyetoy + motion controller.
But hey, since Eyetoy already does most of what Natal does, I might just buy one soon.

The Natal is really cool but that game Milo has been done before on the Dreamcast with Seaman, Seaman worked with a mic and it responded back when you spoke to it.

Natal is really cool for shear interface.

However, Ps3's motion controller seems more practical for more common games.

u limit urself by having zero buttons. With the remotes you open up all types of possibilities plus the pseye can do head tracking. Together they make a more complete package

I don't know why anyone would disagree with what I said because it's true

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Natal's Voice face and body recognition is cutting edge.

PS3 motion is more accurate and accuracy is better for games.

The Milo tech demo was impressive but the AI made it impressive not the camera. yes he can hear you read your face but how can that be implemented in a game, like when she drew a picture and gave it to Milo one of the most impressive moments well the eyepet had that tech last year at E3. I think hardcore gamers need some kind of controller and the camera and controller combo will give more possibilites for TRUE GAMES.

I am not trying to bad mouth the PS3 Motion Controller but I feel the device will be limited. The Eyetoy is horrible in high and low light situations; have you ever used it for LBP? Additionally, most people don't have an Eyetoy so your price comparison isn't valid. One more point: we haven't seen enough of Natal to say it is only good for "X" tasks and not "Y". Your jumping the gun, like usual I might add.

http://boardsus.playstation...

I think both of these are just gimmicks.

I cant really see how you could play elaborate games like Uncharted, Assassin's Creed etc. And that is what's important imo. If you cant play these games with motion controls than I dont see the point for motion controlled games.

Hmmm, maybe you can play FPS games with the Sony one's.
But cant you allready do this FPS thing with the Wiimote, like how they did at the Sony conference today?

this was a very good article. it described the pros and cons of each perfectly.

i agree 100%

sony's toy shows what it can do, ms's toy shows what it might be able to do (has lots of potential)

however, i am personally not interested in any of these stupid gimmicky nintendo casual market wanabees contraptions.

controller foreve

\peace

Natal can scan any shape that looks like a waggly stick and do the same thing lol. It can scan anything and collect info and recognize it and will know its position. No one in there right mind agrees that Sony's tech is anywhere close to what MSFT has.

Folks are playing it right now.

Its the saddest attempt I have ever seen from Sony fanboys to make Sony look good.

Natal can scan objects or read full body motion not to mention the Xbox dashboard motion and voice voice recognition controlled.

Sony stick is primitive in comparison.

Either way... i wont be getting either one since im not in for the casual market. Also, from how i look (check avatar) could you really see me swinging around something like a lightsaber in front of a TV?

Have you not seen the tech demos on the PS3 eye toy? The ps3 eye toy can scan object too and follow it (Eyes of Judgement).

The whole point of the two controller is for 1:1 accurate precision combine with ....wait for it..... buttons. That's right buttons for things like triggers.

@1.17
And simple logic and facts can't convince a fanboy in denial.

A couple hundred PS3 fanboys on this site can not downplay this thing lol. The capabilities and the software for the bar makes what Sony has seem like computers that take up a whole room.

Only a PS3 fanboy would think Natal was just motion sensing there is so much software that is part of it and makes things like Milo possible.

really duh you are the worst kind of wrong. Get this straight MS ddn't show theri device do anything like what you are talking about. They showed tech we have seen and a comercial with alot of promises fool.

The facial recognizing was a little too Orwellian when I first saw it but now I think it's kinda cool. The PS3 Motion also looked like some Wii controller which didn't impress me at first because it looks like a Wii stick and the Natal was totally controller free; but one thing I noticed with Natal which made it seem very much like the eye toy: you won't seem to be able to play a 1st person shooter very well, which you can with the Wii and this PS3 thingamabob.

So all in all I guess they are all equally as good as another until the games come out for all three do determine the best of the three.

We always seem to speak too soon. Anyway I was impressed with both devices. I already knew that M$ would need something tangible in hand to make this work effectively even just a analog stick so that you can move in 3d without walking everywhere if games get to that point. Sony's control I have no idea what they consist of if there is a dpad and analog nub or stick on both. Hands down Sony's controller is the one working right now infront of everyone and is more practical for gaming now. Natal was not very precise but the voice recognition may be the hidden key. I have ideas even to how to use these things but will it work. Sony is close as far as precision and M$ has got a vision. We'll see how this shakes out in the future.

Thats because you don't have a Xbox and didn't see the videos on XBL showing capabilities not shown at E3 press conference.

Natal has full motion detection...how hard would it be to make a pistol with your index finger and thumb and have it fire every time to tilt/flick back then turn it sideways for a reload. The point being Natal could use any gesture for a button hit. Sure a button hit may be faster at the moment, but who knows where this tech will be when they release it. Maybe we should just can the rhetoric until the developers can actually put something on the shelve for both of these technologies.

Nobody cared about the tech when MS bought it a while ago. There were videos showing pretty much the exact same thing and everyone was like "looks ok"... now people act like it's the second coming.

All the emphasis on motion controllers was dumb this E3. I don't really see much of a difference with wii motion plus, Sony's controller was cool but not ready to show off and will most likely be underutilized if it ever comes out, and MS's motion sensor presentation consisted of mainly videos showing what it might be able to do, but the stuff they showed on stage wasn't as impressive... there was very little precision with everything they did.

I wish MS and Sony just stuck with games since they were showing off great games before they got to the motion gimmicks.

Microsoft, they are the original makers way back in 1998! Wii came out in

november 2006. Some people are not able to think outside the box and

research something. They will repeat the FIRST criticism a person comes

up with. And NEVER research the truth. So how are ignorant people acting

like Nintendo made it? The first one was made in 1998 by microsoft for a

PC game they made called microsoft flight simulator. The controller is

called the 'side winder' I bought one I know. But here is your proof if

you was not born yet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... Also guess where the

first webcam motion detection device appeared? That's right on a pc using

microsoft windows.

So:
1 First motion controller was made by Microsoft.
2 First motion detecting webcam was by Microsoft.

No WONDER they are the ones to make a controller less
system!

making it more of a party/mini game tool, and if I'm right about that, then I don't think it will do well seeing as it would be going after the Wii/casual/young gaming audience who might not want to pay not only for a
360 and all expenses that go with that, but also the Natal which could be another $1-2 hundred... I think Sony has it right mostly focusing on the hardcore audience for the Ps3 at least... they know that's what the majority of their customers are, wheras Microsoft seems to really want a piece of Nintendos pie which means less resources going towards the hardcore games.

Both look great IMO. What would be cool is if they make a gun controller for the 360 and using Natal to track motion and such, with the gun controller I think shooters are very possible. both have got me looking forward to see what can, and will be done.

The whole point of Natal is they don't need a controller.... The PS3 motion controller is the one that has the FPS possibilities... It's not shaped like a gun, but it doesn't need to be to be used as one, it has a trigger, and as they showed it can very effectively be used in FPS'

What Sony showed was so rough and so far into the future it was ridiculous to even show it. The hand held looks like a sex toy I once used on this gir......Never mind.

I do see some good possibilities for it but we won't see that any time soon.

MS on the other hand simply shocked and awed the world. The response to actual hands on previews is out of this world. It works and it is amazing. IGN said it was incredible! The technology that MS is bringing gamers is why the 360 continues to dominate. No one can say that MS doesn't give their customers the best!

You must be joking.... Microsoft gives their customers the best?! ROFL!!! Get the fck outta here, your post is honestly a joke.

I'm sorry I had to do this but the hating was getting out of hand.

http://gamevideos.1up.com/v...
http://www.1up.com/do/newsS...

Just back off MSFT will have a motion stick before Sony and before Natal comes out. lol.

MSFT has so much they only had time show the revolutionary stuff while the competitions fights over defacto motion market.

Both was impressive but i have high hopes for the Natal Project. Reason being, just think for a second. People question how in the world would they implement Milo in a game? Easy! Think of Milo as a buddy in CoD and is need of ammo, instead of giving him a picture you hand over some ammo. Just motions show what you are doing, or when to go throw a grenade, you actually pull the pin YOU do the stuff. It will show who is truely skilled in real life too, because YOU are making the moves happen. YOU make yourself fast or slow so the only fault really would be yourself!

I really hope they could implement this in a COD kind of way or some kickboxing or MMA game. street fighter anyone while "literally" fighting someone

I noticed after the woman handed Milo the drawing, he didn't seem to notice her setting the real sheet down on top the stand. This means he is responding to preset commands in the code. There are other demonstrations that seem to show this as well. All it means is that Milo is safely constrained by the rules in place thanks to the code. SKYnet is no longer a threat! :D

Seriously though, if you were to envision Milo as a character in an RPG, the tasks and interaction performed with the character would be comparable to today's standard for the genre. Not that that's a bad thing. It's great. I'd love an RPG to take advantage of NATAL's capabilities. Hell, I demand it! Of course, when he asks you to put on the goggles, he's approximating your response. In other words, motions you do unrelated to the task at hand will have no bearing on future progress. Hence, why he ignores your background (a living room generally) compared to his tranquil environment outdoors. So even if I were to strip myself down, I doubt he would notice (unless they have a response programmed within). Not that I ever thought of becoming a Pedo or anything...

>_>

<_<

Despite all the limitations, I see this going far with certain genres if marketed correctly. If they were to fuse these concepts with hardcore games, I think the industry as a whole could benefit.

Lol, bastch it's sad that you even took time to get that much into it to notice something like that.

Actually, I didn't notice it the first time I saw it. Saw it again during highlights on G4, and that's when I noticed. My mind is kind of weird like that. I like to understand even the most minute details no matter how insignificant they might be. How they work, what happens next, the basic chain reaction. Of course, it's a lot of guesswork, but my brain isn't satisfied unless I try. So it was probably more for myself than anyone else. lol

Natal felt like something revolutionary, while the PS3 motion device simply felt evolutionary.

There is a gulf of difference between these two technologies in my opinion.

MS demo was very impressive, it was difficult not to buy into MSs marketing, Steven Speilberg cant be wrong can he?.....

But can they actually make a full game out of it? Hmmm Im very sceptical about that. Plus I bet we dont even see Natal in stores for a very long time.

Sonys motion controller didnt seem to have that wow factor, but it could have if they had shown it off properly. Ie, if they had shown the fps mode in a Killzone 2 or something. MS took a leaf from Nintendos book on promotion and now they have grabbed everyones attention.

MS made it look unbelievable... And it probably is unfortunatly.

What are you talking about MSFT had more of a game(s) to demo it than Sony had with the stick controller lol.

breakout was the only game shown for next gen motion nothing to be excited about milo was a tech demo.

sony's motion demo was so rushed and unqrganized that we didnt get any really good tech demos but it got a release window at least. and if the quality of their games is put into the motion games they create (not more eyetoy shovelware) then we might be in for a surprise.

I think they both have their uses. I loved natal, heck I am going to buy it just for the media interactions, it can turn your 360 on and off, sign you in without you lifting a finger, and most of those mini games they showed would be great for my son or just for fun.

I dont think either one of them is geared toward hard core games, im sorry but button presses are all ways faster than moving your whole body. Have you ever played fight night against someone that wasnt using the analog commands.

I didnt see any ability to turn in 3d and if someone got behind you, game over. Let me put it this way. By the time you draw a circle to select your units, someone with a keyboard has allready sent his toward yours and is building more.

So it's not hard to see them bundle it with the new controller.

http://www.amazon.com/PlayS...

Lion Head blew me away with the interaction with Milo, and Sony blew me away with the accuracy of this prototype. I honestly thought we where going to get Wii-mote knock offs, but these two blow the Wii out of the water.

Sony have to do what MS already pointed at. If they are going to venture in motion control that far in this gen, then it's better make sure this thing is worth the plata.

Integrate is the keyword here. It's not really a MS idea since we have been asking for Minority Repot like interface control since the EyeToy, but MS grab the chance as soon as it appeared while Sony had years to fulfill these fans' desires.

And why stop with Dashboard/XMB? They should ensure full support for this thing, like you can control menus, setup screens and general HUD at least in first party games, they could integrate it with community (we all know MS will eventually expand Avatars and Sony has already Home) for basic character control (much better than go to a menu to make your doll wave the head positively), they should ensure people will use this thing.

It's basicly the only way to bring enough development interest, Wii had motion as the main form of control from the start, but devs won't go all out their ways to risk their budget into it if only 1/10 of the base had the hardware required and this 1/10 barely uses it. It's the problem with the Eye now.

But, discussing if we really want "serious" devs to go motion, well this is matter for another thread.

Natal is going to be expensive. Besides, the one thing I didn't like about Natal was no buttons for other actions. Having the wand in your hand, and guaranteing 100% 1:1 ratio movement, the new Sony remote will be the way to go.

Some people are claiming it can do wonderous things like scanning and recognizing any object or being able to recognize when you are throwing something and then accurately show that on screen. Its just ignorant to think that we are even close to that kind of AI at this moment in time! I have seen a few programmes about systems that can do this kind of thing but its still so early in development and that it costs millions and requires a HUGE amount of proceesing to do this?? The human brain is the most powerful computer there is and the sheer amount of complex mathmatics it does in the simple act of throwing something is just simply mind shattering. This is something that will not be able to be done on a peripheral for a games console costing £200, not for a very, very long time. The Natal is something that will be limited by its processing power and programming and we are simply to far away from any real tangible technology that will allow us to do even 1/12th of what people are saying on here.

@1.11 - That's why there are glowing balls on the controller, it means it will work well even in low light situations, same cannot be said for Project Natal.

Project Natal is also way off, Sony has already preempted them by saying the motion control will be available in Spring 2010 whereas Natal is late 2010. Most of the stuff Project Natal showed was stuff that has already been done with the Eyetoy on PS2. The only "revolutionary" thing about it is it's voice and face recognition, which I'm pretty sure could be done on the software side of things.

Sony already did most of this stuff on PS2 and are already doing it on PS3, having no controller is a limitation in itself. Sometimes you need a controller, sometimes you don't.

Edit:

N4G really needs to start IP Banning people to the open zone e.g. Gamertags and really duh, I can't believe they haven't already been banned.

Can you "guarantee" that two PS3 motion controllers + the EyeToy is going to be cheaper than the 360 Natal camera though? Hmmm?

The normal retail PS3 isn't bundled with an EyeToy camera as a standard hardware feature is it... and the bow & arrow demo required two motion controllers - yes?

To me it seemed like when the Sony boys got on stage, it looked like they were a little embarrased! MS showed motion controls without an object in your hand. And Sony was looking more like they were trying to just copy what Nintendo was doing. If you look at the guys faces who demonstrated the Sony motion controller, they don't look too confident.

Like I said, both looked good. But to me it just seems like MS is trying to do more with the motion controls.

its kinda like this ps3 motion controller moves on an HD 1080p precision while xbox natal moves on a SD 480p precision. the ps3 is almost spot on while the xbox's needs a lot more tweaking and improvements, also the natal is going to be more expensive because a lot of ps3 owners already have a ps3eye which works already with the motion controller while w/ natal you have to buy a new one because it does not work with the current xbox cam, which is really sad.

well its goes to show that ps3 won on this area by a mile.

Project Natal! But it seems like its for a less hardcore experience and not really for real games that we buy on store shelves. It seems to me that they made Natal with only one idea in mind, And that is "you are the controller" which is a good idea for some innovative games but a bad idea for hardcore games like FPS's.

With the PS3 motion controls they make perfect sense that you need to hold something in order to get the kind of feedback you want.
But in my opinion I want both for different reasons!

@1.45 - Most likely 2 motion controller will be bundled together (i.e. act as one controller). Also Natal is rumored to cost $200, seems a little too high, but it will be pretty expensive.

Natal isn't as innovative as people think. The PS3 EyeToy had motion capturing in February of 2008. Facial recognition has been around a long time. Voice recognition is just a microphone added next to the camera.

Sony's motion controllers are kind of just the next step beyond the Wii.

I'd put Sony's ahead of Natal and more likely to be integrated into general mainstream games because

a) you need controllers to perform common actions;
b) it sets a defined set of points to program and track rather than having to account for all moving elements;
c) it's more intuitive for gamers in general, especially Wii owners.

Natal is neat, but it's honestly mostly a gimmick or toy, much like EyePet. You can play simple, first-party games like soccer and bowling, but outside of that it's not really going to be used because the actions required to simulate most games are more complex and hard to program around all of the possible body movements one can make. Especially when you throw more than one person into the mix or general background and foreground movement (I have cats, what happens when they run in front of my camera? How about when I'm playing a party game and lots of movement is occurring in front of the camera?).

I see Natal becoming a first-party primarily supported tool much like Wii Sports and Wii Fit. I see Sony's controllers being something that third party developers can implement into their games similar to programming for a gamepad or mouse/keyboard interaction.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

If so, the Sixsense debut back in Sept 08 was more exciting than the Sony E3 debut yesterday. The Sixense demo has been up since last year sometime and it shows what Sony showed off today and A LOT more (Seriously -- Take a look at it. I don't understand why more people haven't mentioned this...)

I thought this kinda technology was confirmed for the longest (Even many of the comments on the youtube pages seem to think so). Me and a lot of the people that I hang out with knew it (or were completely under the impression) since last November. This was not impressive the 2nd time (It was rushed as hell) The 1st time I saw sixense it was great though...

More on Sixense Tech Demo:
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Before you hit "Disagree" please take the time to write out and explain why you do...

By that logic, isn't Natal just the Sony EyeToy?

The Eye Toy was on the PS2....the Playstation Eye is what is on the PS3. Two different beasts.

The Eye Toy had motion sensing as well. That was my implication, that this technology is fairly old. The PS3 Eye Camera is more advanced and has the same level of single-camera motion recognition as Natal, but it's the exact same concepts, just throw in another camera instead of using controllers for point control.

I swear, it's like when Sony does something amazing, people forget. Then when Microsoft pulls the same stuff, it's tomorrow's news headline or something.

Does anyone remember the tech demos on the PS3 eye toy besides me? Does anyone not remember the 3d target sign tracking (no glasses or anything) based off the wiimote hack? Does anyone not realize the PS3 eye toy has facial recognition/multiple tracking/depth perception/voice recogntion?

It's like people are blinded by what Microsoft brainwashed them to believe.

True Microsoft's greatest weapon is hype.

Ulti

No you are not alone, i posted similar comment today on 1UP, it is on Sam Kennedy blog, yes the one where he was having orgazm over MS.
Strange how people forgot EyePet...well you said it all i won't repeat.
I guess it has to do that MS is american company, so there is a bit of bias there, something i can understand but still it is lame

Seriously too pwned who cares about either, have fun looking like a fool playing your games.

I don't think eye toy ever did anything like the Project Milo. Plus NATAL is not just a phallic hand peripheral, you can use your whole body. Anyone who can't see the potential in this is blind.

Yes it has full body motion tracking but what good will it do?

Look at the shiat its meant to do. A girl defending a goal trying to bounce back incoming balls? It wasnt even 100% accurate as many balls seem to just pass through.

And then, lets PAINT AN ELEPHANT! Yay, millions poored in on this project and...and you can draw an elephant with it! haha suckers.

Wanna know how accurate it is? The guy on stage couldnt even show what the bottom of his avatar shoe looks like without going SPASTASTIC.

Thats a FRIKKIN AVATAR kid. It cant even track your movements for your avatar, how accurate do you think all of that will be in a game?

Also, the shiat looks designed for CASUAL SHIAT MINI GAMES. But what about hardcore games like COD7? RPGs like FF15?

Whats full body motion tracking going to do, kid. How are you going to aim your gun. How are you going to move your character around.

Conclusion: Natal is vaporware.

Yea its advanced with voice recognition, facial recognition and what more. You think all that crap is cheap? Its gonna cost you 200 bucks when it comes out.

200 bucks with all that tech to play some casual SHIAT GAMES? Or to draw an elephant? ROFL massive failure.

eyetoy copy?

how stupid are you, firstly you need the eyetoy just to use that stupid pswiimote, it looks ugly as hell with that glowing knob, bet it gets you off good tho.

natal atleast has no need for a controll, reconises voice and can be used with games already on the market, you can even use it on the dashbord and use it to shut down the console with your voice.

im sorry if you want to be deluded and think sonys tech is better than natal then you are seriously blind and stupid.

Without buttons you limit the true possibilities of this technology. How would you shoot things? The FPS demo Sony put on was similar to head tracking (view the video) and that is where the real future of gaming is heading. Where not only motion, but positioning in a room has an effect on the screen and the point of view you get.

I'd say the Project Natal is closer to the head tracking than what Sony was showing. I've attached a video of something that is more in-line of what I expect for the "hardcore" crowd from Microsoft with Natal.

What Sony showed, you have to have a customized controller to play with. With the Natal, you can still play with the normal 360 controller, but the extra "motion sensing" can also still be in play.

I see what you're saying, but there is a difference between scanning and reading an image. Granted, NATAL knows what to look for, but the fact that the tech can even notice changes in facial structure is more than the EyeToy presently offers. Being able to react to these changes is NATAL's key feature. The EyeToy itself is static, that is why Sony has the Wand, so that the Wand can communicate with the PS3 through the EyeToy. Otherwise, the EyeToy shouldn't even need a device to communicate changes within 3D space to the same degree.

The only thing about NATAL that has me uneasy is the idea of 3D movement. They should have at least created an option for a motion controller, because now how are they going to interpret feet movement within identical 3D spaces? For example platformers. To advance you would need to move your feet forward, but due to the constraints of the living room (ideally) you wouldn't be able to after a certain point. You would have to step back and repeat the process, but then that as well would be interpreted on screen.

The only way I can foresee the concept working is if they use a stepping motion. Similar to pressing down on a gas pedal to accelerate. The device could track particular movements through space and translate the signal. That might work, but then the 3D space has been manipulated and is no longer identical. Meaning you don't have complete control. Still, that sounds good enough for me.

I don't think we will ever be able to reach that stage... that is unless they discover how to read neural messages. In which case, it would no longer be 3D space, but matter as a whole as the brain interprets all external and internal stimuli. If that were to happen, the possibility of confusing games with reality would be slightly more plausible. Again they would have to manipulate that environment to achieve full immersion, and that would mean multiple Matrix-like trances (reference to the movie).

Sony showed controller-free head tracking in February of 2008. Search Kotaku for it.

The thing is that Sony has been looking into camera-based motion gameplay for longer than Microsoft and they've come to the conclusion that while they can throw more cameras into it, it just won't result in something that could be used on mainstream games. By utilizing common controllers with movement and actions, then you can blend the two into one for a more intuitive gameplay session.

in the demo of natal they showed they had a section where a boy controlled a monster on a rampage. The monster only moved when the boy lifted his leg. I personaly dont see any of these motion controls being used for hardcore games. Sorry there is just a limit to how involved I want to get in snipping someone.

Neither of these seemed practical for hardcore games.

1 everything they showed I can do better and faster on a controller
2 despite how precise the ps3 dildo's were i didnt see alot of freedom of movement.
3 I didnt see a single thing in project anal that allowed you to turn around.

However for some games I can imagine both of these interfaces having their particular uses