unreal is a geat engine that has given it fare share of great games ... gears, mass effect, graw, splinter cell, rainbow six, mirrors edge, XIII...

but yes its time has come... enough with the measly updates it recieves, its time to start fresh from the ground up... either epic realises this themselves or they can wait till id tech 5 and cry engine 3 make them change a few things

Lets face it... Developers are going to hold on to UE3 until some other engine like CryEngine 3.0 takes over. Building a new engine for a game not only takes more time, but takes more money as well. Though the results are stunning (PS3 exclusives anyone?), but still we all know that how much time and money goes into building such games (at least 3-4 years).

I was really pleased with CE3. Hopefully it will take over. UE3 is definitely holding back the PS3.... The games always have issues with textures and pop-ins. I don't know if it's holding the 360 or not... Since the best looking 360 exclusive is Gears 2... UE3. Frankly I have yet to see a 360 exclusive made on a custom engine that rivals UE3's Gears for the 360. Halo sucked in graphics (640P!!! not even HD). I know a lot of games on the PS3 that kick the crap out off UE3 (Uncharted 1/2, KZ2, MGS4, GOW3... notice all made on custom engines). So in short UE3 is crap for PS3.

I hate to say this, but until UE3 engine is used, multi-plat will tend to be inferior on PS3. CE3 seems to be better for both consoles. UE3 should be buried by now. Even the UE3 itself is not surpassing its 2 year old games. Gears 1 (a 2 year old game!!!) & 2 are good, but rest of the games look crap. Let UE3 die in peace.

UNREAL ENGINE 3 is like a same average actor being casted again and again for whatever new film is coming up.

Yeah it was gr8 in the beginning but as time pass ... you start to get bored of seeing the same actor acting with hiccups (popping texture), his facial expression, his voice, attitude and personality and this is exactly being happenned with UE3.

I need change or UE3 should bring up something extraordinary that'll again make us like this engine. For now Ive already paid my Obituaries to UE3 engine.

Im sure they are working on a UE4 engine :)

I agree that every engine will reach it's decline stage, but Gears of War 2 proves that Unreal 3 when pushed is still one of the best engines graphically for the 360.

What game available now looks better than GeoW2 on the 360? Even before GeoW2, there weren't any games that really gave it GeoW1 a run for its money in the graphic department until GeoW2. One could tend argue that developers are lazy for the 360 as well....

"What game available now looks better than GeoW2? Even before GeoW2, there weren't any games that really gave it GeoW1 a run for its money in the graphic department until GeoW2."

Uncharted

True. Unreal Engine 3 is like Jeff Goldblum. He's the same in all his films. What's that jeff? You're playing an eccentric scientist again in your upcoming film? Never of guessed that. And like Jeff Goldblum, all unreal engine games tend to have the same sort of look about them

I intended my comment for the 360 only. I edited to clarify that. If they are going to get rid of the engine responsible for one of the best looking games for the 360, they better darn well make sure we get something better. That was my point.

Uncharted looking better than GeoW or vice versa is debatable.

i also think it has to do with what they are trying to do with the engine..

i mean the CE3 makes beautiful jungles.. but if you want a city scape it seems better done in UE3..(gears vs Crysis) and then there are custom engines but those will be used for sequals i bet..

i would also say personally the RAGE (GTA IV) engine really impressed me for the amount of stuff it handles.. i mean the whole city feels alive.. and done so well and looks pretty as well) but if this engine was used for gears wit would look like poop.. so each engine has its ups and downs.. and i think UE3 will be around for a while.. it the dark and dingy that it does well and until another engine does this well we won't be seeing anything too new... also amazing how versitile UE3 is... in my mind anyways..

lol i was about to post that link. Seriously anyone who thinks gears beats uncharted (let alone killzone) is out of their mind. I mean seriously, how many times does that kineticninja link need to be shown till 360 fanboys get the idea

that comparison is completely unfair!... it's based on reality, and we all know reality has a Sony bias.

xD

i have to disargree with you there buddy ... while by no means i'm saying that gears 2 dosesnt look kick ass... however it is not the best the 360 has to offer graphically ... see this is where multiplats dont get thier credit where its due... far cry 2 resident evil 5 dead space hell even the upcoming lost planet 2 all look better than gears

having said that ... i still have yet to play a game that gives me an adrenaline rush as much as gears does... it just jacks up your heart beat .. i love it

Why don't we let the devs decide when to ditch UE3? Most don't even know how a game is made. Engine hate...it's just silly.

Because of its fake trailer back then, although Killzone 2 almost reached that same level of graphics and still ended up being one of the best looking titles out right now.

But no one likes to remember that Gears of War 2 had fake bullshots at much higher resolutions with better quality textures and lighting effects.

About Beyond 3D, it is actually a credible site, but the thing is, they only know PC technology, they don't know how any of this new technology holds. I doubt anyone on that site actually knows how the i7 works, not to mention the Cell. So when it comes to PC tech, they know their stuff, but they really can't compare 360 (PC hardware) vs PS3 (CBE/ non-parallel system).

... and the people here are much better judges of course? /sarcasm

Note, I don't agree or disagree with your statement.

Is on point, Gears 2 isn't the best looking 360 game because multiplat Resident Evil 5 far surpasses it and the upcoming Lost Planet 2 looks like it will do the same. I can't comment on the others he's mentioned though, simply because I have not seen them.

One problem though, what engine powered Resident Evil 5?

capcoms inhouse mtframework 2.0 ... same engine powering lost planet 2 ..

"Why don't we let the devs decide when to ditch UE3? Most don't even know how a game is made. Engine hate...it's just silly. "

Clarification: Most *of us commenting* don't even know how a game is made. Devs obviously do.

@porcelaingod

your whole normal mapping speech just proves you don't know what you are talking about

every single game out there uses normal maps extensively, UE3 or not
normal mapping doesn't fake anything, it is a more efficient way of modelling and rending as opposed to using 100% geometry

if it weren't for normal maps game models would still look as if they were on ps2

You completely changed what IdleLeeSiuLung said to make it look as though he was talking about all console games when in fact he was referring only to 360 games.

Not cool. I hope yout not representing us PS3 gamers

Edit: just realised IdleLee edited his to clarify he was on about the 360. Im assuming it wasnt obvious to begin with. My bad.

i have a SD 50" TV, i can't tell the diff on those 2.. once my tv dies and i buy a 40"+ HD TV then i'll see what you people are talking about first hand..

to many people are jealous of epic's engine, come on it f#cking blows away heavy rain's garbage engine.

http://www.gamersyde.com/st...

0:19 and 6:10 mirror's edge in HD
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

VS

http://www.gamersyde.com/st...

if you can't see how much better the kinematics are then i say you have less than half of 20/20 vision.

Whenever I read an article like this, I see many retorts along the lines of "It's not the Engine, it's the lazy Developers!".

On the one hand, I agree: a motivated Developer could certainly rewrite parts of the Engine and author their content to make their game stand out from all the other UE3 games. The Developer could even make the PS3 version of their game outshine the 360 version (though that could be a LOT of work with an Engine that appears to favor the 360 architecture).

On the other hand, the way Epic markets UE3 and the way many Developers use it are the reasons why articles such as these ring so true. I will cover each point in turn.

MARKETING:

It appears that Epic's goal with the UE3 Engine was to get it in the hands of EVERYONE, in order to make it the defacto standard. They give the Engine to universities, mod developers, out-sourcers and indies very cheaply (sometimes for free). They promote the use of the Engine with the "Make Something Unreal" contests. Of course, there's nothing wrong with Epic trying to make some money.

The problem is that these types of users are unlikely to change the engine one bit, and will develop for PC almost exclusively. Thus, the Games Industry is flooded with worker bees for Epic that are experienced and comfortable developing for UE3 as it is delivered, and not often familiar with developing content that will necessarily work well on consoles (trusting the Engine to do that for them).

DEVELOPERS:

When UE3 was first available for licensing, Developers that bought it did so with the intention of creating great games. However, use of UE3 has evolved (devolved?) into the "cheap and safe" choice, for the following reasons:

1.) The price of the Engine has dropped over time.

2.) New (and thus cheaper) employees experienced with it have become available, due to Epic's marketing strategy. No need to train them up on an in-house Engine.

3.) Developers have become committed to the UE3 pipeline by using it on multiple titles (often across entire studios). Also, since they already have it on hand, they often use UE3 to prototype and shop a new game to Publishers, and then become stuck with it. "Stuck", because a good amount of work has already been done, and perhaps the Publisher dictates that the Engine not be swapped out, as a condition of picking up the game.

"Cheap and safe" is especially true if the Developer uses UE3 with little modification. He will introduce fewer bugs and the schedule is easier to predict and stick to without heavy Engine work. The number of expensive programmers needed for the game is reduced, and the ones needed for implementing game-play won't have to dig into the guts of the Engine - which is pretty risky, the way all the pieces are tied together.

The use of UE3 also makes Publishers more comfortable with picking up a title early in development Developers - especially less-experienced Developers who need a Publisher early, due to lack of resources). To the Publisher, UE3 is at least a known quantity, which helps determine risk. In some cases, the Publisher may even dictate that the Developer must use the Engine if they want their title to be picked up. This is partly why you will see a lot of movie tie-ins created using UE3 - they have to be done quick, cheap, and on-time.

All of this works out great for Epic. Unfortunately, these practices also result in a lot of "Unreal Tournament" and "Gears of War" clones, in look and feel, for which Gamers are becoming dissatisfied. It also means that any UE3 weaknesses (PS3, for example) are propagated across most of the titles that use that Engine.

CONCLUSION:

So my take is that "It IS (partly) the Engine...AND (some) lazy Developers...AND (some) risk-averse Publishers!".

Game engines evolve. There is nothing to "move on" from.

This entire article is useless fanboy blather. Uninformed baseless "opinion". Not even an "opinion" frankly, as it is totally unequipped and uninformed on the topic on which it comments.

UE3 a "failure"? Is that why Epic has so many dev. houses using it? Is the author -- and this totally worthless forum -- *actually* suggesting they know better than dozens of Dev. Houses? The same Studios that are spending hundreds of millions on projects based around UE3?

That sound like "failure"?

Or, how the failure of Gears of War? And Gears 2? Metacritic 9.3?Those "failures"? Piles of awards, exceptional reviews and 11 Million copies sold? That kind of failure?

Is the Killzone-engine a success? Killzone2 sold 55k copies last month. The total sold is less than 1.5M worldwide. That kind of "success"? Meta critic 9.1?

What we see here is the simply sour-grapes. The most obvious type. That UE3 is Xbox 360 / Windows centric, and it is the preferred middle ware for the generation, the Playstation 3 owner feels "left out". Its **NOT** Epic's fault that Sony built a confused development environment and the result is "pretty equal" (IBM's Technical Architect David Shippy's verdict, NOT my opinion, but the lead behind the Eng. Team @ IBM who did BOTH CPUs).

EDIT: HEY PORCELINGOD: "For the massively weaker Xbox 360" -- NO amount of repeating your bullshait is going to make the PS3 more powerful. It is simply NOT THE CASE. READ ABOVE. Only a victim of self-delusion or sony marketing can say such nonsense with a straight face. READ THE DAVE SHIPPY INTERVIEW!

The fact is that the PS crowd is just bitter about UE3 is sad. Simply sad.

UE3 is a MASSIVE success in fact. By any relevant measure. It is a GROWING success by any measure.

That the PS crowd has such sour grapes about UE3 is an insult to the gaming commmunity.

No amount of ignorant belly-aching, and worthless blather like this article will change that; those that **MATTER** are flocking to UE3 -- and their is no need to pretend you (author or SDF@N4G) know fracking better.

Have some humility, its embarrassing to see you people behave this way.

that screen you are touting as fake was never said to be in game, it was said to be 'in engine'

those are 2 compeltely different things, you can render anything inside of the engine

and again with the normal mapping speech, go look at the normals in games like killzone, lair, any title, they are just as prevalent as the ue3 games

every single title 360,ps3,pc uses normal maps these days

look at the new assassins creed, or even the old one...altair's clothes were modeled as flat plains and then were normal mapped into a cloth look

killzone 2? huge use of normal maps here is the blog of one of the modelers, his main tools were maya and *MUDBOX*
....why is mudbox significant? because it is a sculpting program to create NORMAL MAPS

http://www.web-design-cambr...

epic primarily uses Zbrush which is very similar to mudbox but quickly becoming the standard for high poly sculpting and normal map generation

your normal map argument doesnt hold any water when the flagship visuals for both systems employ the same exact technology

a developer on the use of normal maps in the industry specifically referencing killzone in regards to a guy attacking it for the exact same reasons you are attacking UE3

"Schreiber: The author insists on Killzones’ use of graphical cheats somehow diminish the quality or technical achievement of the game. This leads me believe that the author has never worked on in-game assets. Videogame graphics are based on industry techniques that are in essence cheats. New cheats, or techniques, is what is the basis for progression. Normal maps and bump maps are cheats techniques that most next gen games use, it is standard stuff. Normal maps itself are a technique that cheats the player into seeing depth in an object that isn’t really modeled into the in-game geometry. Also lighting models, skinning system, post process screen effects, all cheats. Techniques developed that can achieve better graphics, more realistic lighting and shadows, better FX, smarter AI are the reason why games have evolved to the point they are today, and you can have 60fps on 1080p. Seriously that’s the essence of videogame graphics. Movies employ cheats as well, they film on blue (or green) screen, they fill in scenes with 3d environments and characters, and they use miniature sets instead of blowing up a real town. Again these cheats are techniques that have been used and created to achieve a standard and also promote an evolution of the media."

normal maps are industry standard, they don't apply to just gears of war or epic games, nor just xbox 360

they apply to every single game you play on this generations consoles, so take your garbage argument somewhere where people think you know something

i've been using these exact tools for several years, unreal engine isn't faking anything, it is doing exactly the same thing everybody else is

the only difference was epic was ahead of the competition this generation and did the hard work for everybody else

when you are the lead dog people get jealous, people imitate, and eventually you are surpassed

to say ue3 is a bad thing is incredibly uneducated, had epic not been working on next gen tech before anyone else it may have been a year or so longer before we started seeing the type of visuals that we are

everything epic has done with UE3 pushed the industry further, if you actually disagree with that then i feel sorry for your naive mind

is it the best engine out there? for some it is, for some it is not

is it showing age? of course, it was the first which is why UE4 has been in development for about a year and we will probably be seeing it at the beginning of the next console cycle

saying that ue3 is weak because of normal maps is foolish and that is just a fact

UE3 fails if its running on a PS3, everything else it seems to run and look just fine.

lol

Outlawlife & Cherrypie

Bubbs up. You two seem to know what you're talking about.

@CherryPie - I'm sorry dude, but why are you even bringing in the sales game? It has almost no relevance to a consumer. 1 million games sold is a success for game makers, of course they would LOVE 7 million and so on, but 1 million is far from a failure. Anyway, bringin in the sales numbers only gives more for the fanboys to bash 360 about. I like the 360, but the reason why I seem so critical about the 360 is because it is being touted as something bigger and better than it actually is. Personally, I hate the sales number game. Ooo, X game sold Y ammount. So what? Furbies sold like crazy, don't mean their good.

@ Outlawlife

Yes, normal mapping is used by everyone, but the statement of you saying KZ2 used a "huge" amount is false. While Mudbox is a normal mapping program, GG used very little normal mapping. They mostly used polygons for their detail, and the deferred rendering to produce the shadows, highlights that they wanted. I can go on and on about UE3 vs KZ2 engine, but it really is pointless unless one is getting into the business and ALREADY is doing such things..otherwise..by the time you get into it, everything will be different.

lol at people saying gears 2

you mean this game?

since people who clearly don't play the game are posting up screenshots, how about we post some actual shots of what the game actually looks like?

these all captured by me personally, in multiplayer

you can post all of the shots you want to make the game look as ugly as possible, anybody can do that with any game...why not play the game once and realize it looks nothing like that?

pick apart these screens as much as you want because that is what it looks like, if you are going to be an idiot be a fair one

http://img40.imageshack.us/...
http://img33.imageshack.us/...
http://img39.imageshack.us/...

The batman footage is all pre-rendered. Do you know how I know this? No texture pop-in. If you look at mass effect, gears 2, uncharted, kz2 they all have texture pop-in in thier cut sceenes. Thats because it's realtime and what the engine actually plays like when playing the game, which is the only important part.

Mirrors edge has some very low resolution textures and it doesn't look that great IMHO on either PS3 or Xbox 360. On PC it might be another deal but I've only seen some screengrabs from it.

Now check this out. Heavy rain club footage.

http://www.gametrailers.com...

This is realtime. Do you know how I know this? Check out the light pop-in rendering at 0:09 on the middle green ledge between the two cube formed lights. Don't tell me that this engine doesn't kick the living sh|t out of UE3. With this much stuff going on and no framrate drops at all. You have to give it props.

@outlawlife

Gears 2 is probably the best looking game on the 360. But lets just leave it at that.

i'm not even saying that it is the best on 360, i'm just saying to the folks above if they are going to post screens try posting ones that aren't hand picked/setup in odd situations to prove a point

use real time shots, from real game situations

if they want to prove a point or argue a point they should be able to do it without posting biased screens

your screen shots still look ugly, and the screen shots i posted are direct feed during gameplay not bullshots.

These are true screens of Gears of War 2, not photochopped low res pics that Gun_Senshi shows that he probably chooped himself.

IGN http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/... Notice the high rez, high quality screens? thats because these are real and don't come from a PS3 anti 360 PS3 fan forum. These screens were also taken after the level has loaded up and not "conveniently" while the texture was still loading up.

Sorry Gun_Senshi I know this bit of truth hurts, but try some neosporin and some aspirin.

I'm glad Gears of War 2 doesn't look that crappy on my TV.. i mean seriously, where did those screens come from?

I don't think Gears of War 2 is the best 360 game (graphically), I'd put RE5, Lost Planet 2 (from what I've seen), and even Banjo Kazooie (because of it's art style) above it.

Sorry Jason but that first image is a bullshot. You can see this in the overkill of sharpness and detail at distance. Also look at the furthest away leg on the squid mob. It has motion blur put in after the shot was taken to make the picture have more depth.

That is not how it looks like in-game.

This is an uncharted bullshot:
http://nukoda.com/wp-conten...

Motion blur in the background where the pirates are at. Texture sharpness enhanced. Light sources added. High Anti aliasing. Camera fixed in place to capture what the artist wants you to see.

Actual in-game:
http://media.photobucket.co...

Do you see how the camera angle is far from how it is in-game? Exactly the same way as in the gears 2 one.

Check out outlawlife's screengrabs because they are acurrate to how gears 2 looks in-game.

((X)) ((O)) ((<-)) ((RRoD))

its an overused average engine, and they seriously need to make another one. no more generic gears of war games, they are terrible when compared with uncharted/mgs4/killzone 2.

Hmmm but your idol David Jaffe said Gears of War 2 had the best graphics this gen last year...are you sure you know better than him? He's a loyal PS3 fan like you so why would he say that? Let me tell you - cos he's not a biased gimp like that majority of this site. But he is an idiot, and a f**kin ugly one at that.

the only fail is this article. blame 'lazy' devs, not an inanimate piece of software or even that software's creators. having "Epic's Fail" appear in the title is BS.

of course that didn't stop the sfags from coming in here and braying like a bunch of j@ck@sses, "Epic sucks, Unreal sucks, 360 sucks!!"

and look at Shadow Man's disproportionate amount of disagrees. obviously he's being tracked and nailed with blind disagrees, why would all the other comments' agrees/disagrees here come no where close to 16??? what a sad sad bunch you 360 haters are.

please go kill yourselves now.

Well I believe that Uncharted Drake's Fortune was the best looking game along with Heavenly Sword at the time they came out. It had so much color. Also, Gears 2 being the best looking game at the time is your opinion. But, MGS4 does have better graphics; The awards for best graphics aren't there for nothing. Don't forget possibly the most realistic graphics on consoles would be Gran Turismo 5 prologue. That's just a demo too. LBP has one of the best lighting and textures of any game to date. And of course, Killzone 2 holds the crown now. Infamous has the best sandbox graphics to date. so yeah. UE3 is old. 360 gamers should complain about their games using the same damn thing.

how about this, unreal engine: bargain bin gaming?

Doesn't bother me any. 90% of my gaming is done on PS3 and all our good games have propriety engines built for the hardware they are on. Not "One size fits all" middleware.
XB only owners might like that wet plastic look but it just doesn't cut it on PS3.

PS
Suunyd
Finally, someone besides me recognises that LBP has EASILY the best textures ever. You can zoom so close in creation mode and still wood looks like wood, rock looks like rock and so on. The only other game that comes close is Uncharted.

mgs4 gfx> GEOW2 gfx
proof =
GEOW2 - http://farm4.static.flickr....

MGS4-

http://z.about.com/d/playst...

haha, claiming graphical prowess and getting owned, then neglecting the glitch fest that is gears use of the unreal engine, as Tim and Eric would say, "Great job!"

Uncharted 1 (yes..don't even bring 2 in the comparison cause it's out of this world) beats the crap out of Gears in graphics. Just look at the screen shots (in the article). The detailing in Uncharted was beyond Gears. Just look at Marcus's ear in the first screen shot.. Looks as if even the muscles in the ear are growing.. and then look at the Drakes' picture.. Yes it's real time.

And please don't even start comparing MGS4 with it. Gears is just shades of brown... where as MGS4 uses all colors (from snowy region to jungle to war zone in desert kind...). It doesn't have any pop in issue and the texture seem much better. UE3 cannot handle other colors well... Just look at games like Mirrors Edge... The white seems soo bland and washed off.

In short, if you want to create a yellowish or brown game, then make it on UE3. It will look as stunning as Gears.

Right so those screenshots - tha main character model at a reasonable distance compared to an enemy model literally inside the camera. That's fair! I've no reason to be biased but I just can't see how MGS4 is better than GEOW2 in terms of graphics. MGS4 has loads of aliasing on a decent sized screen...although I am speaking to the biggest PS3-bumming collective on the planet by posting on this site. It's like telling Microsoft that Sony are better, they just won't accept it even if it's true.

Does someone want to get the main character models at the same distance and compare instead of that ridiculous one provided by the inbred above? Y did David Jaffe who clearly bums PS say that Gears 2 had the best graphics then? Surely you lot idolise him so he must have credibility.

@ below - Yeah it does, y did Jaffe who loves PS say so? 360 lurkers?I've got both and I haven't touched my 360 since I got a PS3...but like I said, I can't see how MGS4 graphics exceed Gears. I'd like a decent screenshot proving otherwise.

hahahaha gears looks better than MGS4?? hahahaha thats soo funny god you 360 lurkers really know how to make me laugh. Without the unreal engine the 360 would be screwed this gen as Gears made the 360 what it is today like Halo made the first Xbox. The engines still got plenty of life and uses nearly all the power of the ps3 and had the capability to use ALL the power of the 360 and all of its potential so why use anything else when you can get full potential out of the box??

Yeah, of course you would say that. It's the usual retort if you got hurt by what they said. Why is that the only answer you guys have to articles like this?

Thing is, if you read it (which I doubt you did), you will see that they said that the engine held back the 360 games, as well (I'll let you read it because this site deserves the hits by pointing it out, even though you probably won't).

I've been saying it for months now that the UE3 engine is VERY outdated and very overrated (and before anyone says it, yes, the article DID bring up Mirror's Edge as the only one that actually didn't have as much issues with it using the engine). It really needs to be killed (along with Valve's Source Engine).

http://www.kineticninja.blo...

http://www.kineticninja.blo...

Uncharted 1 is graphically leagues better than Gear 1 and 2.

...I have tissues if you need one because anyone who says Gears looks better than MGS4 needs their eyes examined. ;~;

http://farm4.static.flickr....

http://z.about.com/d/playst...

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3...

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3...

http://farm4.static.flickr....

http://farm4.static.flickr....

http://farm4.static.flickr....

Did i realy have to do that

@below
made me laugh so hard

"...Cos I thought Gears 2 looked immense and I'm currently playing MGS for the first time and can't see how the graphics are better..."

Further to careful inspection, I'm hard pressed to agree with you that yes, Gears 2 does indeed have the graphical edge over MGS.

But you've gotta admit that MGS nonetheless looks pretty darn good for a game that's over a decade old.

Whatever Die_Fiend... If MGS4 wasn't good looking enough for you, Killzone 2 took the crown (as you agree) from Gears 2 (or MGS4 IMO) in terms of graphics. Gears 2 is a great looking game, but just is too monotonous in it's color pallet. And that is what I am emphasizing why UE3 is crap. It cannot handle colors like Green and White without them bleeding off the edges. Also, the pop ins, texture problems (again see the Gears picture in article... look at the back..), frame rate issues and glitches all are clear signs that the engine has reached it's old age.

Only good looking textures and light don't make a game great looking. Factors such as FPS lags or pop in issues or glitches... All contribute in graphics section. And that is why I feel MGS4 is better looking cause it doesn't have any pop ins.. nor does it have any frame rate issues and neither does it have any glitches... The same cannot be said for Gears my friend.Also, the color pallet used in MGS4 tells that the engine is leagues ahead compared to UE3. Anyways it's personal opinion... In terms of gameplay and story MGS4 kicks some Gears ass...

Oh ya for comparisons just look at any of the above links posted by the commenters. Even UC1 was better looking (and the screen shots can be compared at similar zoom in modes). At least games like MGS4 and UC1 don't resort to blurring the draw distances in order to keep the frame rates up.
I might be an inbred according to you, but at least my eyes are working well unlike yours.

oh at last a sensible response. Thanks Nathan, it's about time I got one. good points about pop in and a few glitches that don't happen in MGS4, I didn't really factor those in I just thought of a general glitch free situation for both. But when Gears isn't glitching it looks just as good. Do you really think Gears 2 is monotonous in it's palette? It's a lot more colourful thank 1...I thought it was quite colour, but yeah it's only really one colour at a time.
U say MGS doesn't have frame rate issues, I don't know what you mean by that. It's certainly not stable, you can tell when it's suddenly gone up to 60 and back, but it never drops below 30 that I've noticed which Gears does at times so I suppose it's better in that respect but it's not locked down which I kinda expected. I'm only on Act 2 on MGS4 and it doesn't seem that colourful, maybe that will have changed by the time I've played more.
"If MGS4 wasn't good looking enough for you" It's definitely good enough, it's certainly a really good looking game, I just think Gears looks a bit better when it's not glitching like you mentioned. From all the stuff I read I was expecting MGS4 to blow me away and I can't see how it's better. Killzone 2 definitely took the crown from any other games, shat around the rim and put it back on their heads IMO. I mean they're just incredible and it totally lived up to the hype surrounding graphics, and the gameplay's pretty damn tight to match. I can't wait to see what happens with the PS3 cos I do think the 360 is probably close to being maxed out unfortunately, whereas the early PS3 exclusives look damn sweet so imagine in like 2 years.

btw I never said you were an inbred, cos at least your comments are rational
So you don't think Dom's face has more detail than Snakes and Drakes. You talk about 360 having plastic looking faces, just LOOK at Drakes. It's as shiny as a new mirror. Is Dom's? And look at Snakes shoulder. It's so blocky! I have no reason to be biased as I own both consoles, but on this site you just can't reason with the majority of people cos they're actually in love with a console lol

Owning both consoles doesn't automatically make you unbiased.

Ok so we have a neutral ground.... KZ2 pwns MGS4 and Gears 2 in graphics... Uncharted 2 will pwn KZ2 in graphics.... Heavy Rain will pwn it in graphics and finally GOD OF WAR 3 will pwn everything in graphics (well at least we can hope for)..

Die_Fiend: btw... Dude you have just reached Act 2.. there are 3 more ACTS left and all in different places (SPOLER ALEART**:from snowy Shadow Mozes to Jungle terrain to modern city to a battle in Cruiser in Act 5.... al use different terrain...SPOILER ENDS**)
You are just getting started. Just wait for the awesome boss fights. I don't believe you are commenting after only playing the first 2 Acts... No wonder you think Gears is better looking.

(Microsoft Xbox 360)

that comparison is compleat bull sh!t.....using BULLET SHOTS as a comparison, G@Y.

http://ps3.ign.com/dor/obje...

http://ps3.ign.com/dor/obje...

http://ps3.ign.com/dor/obje...

^^^ How about some Uncharted pics right off of regular peoples HDTV's? ~

http://img.photobucket.com/...

http://i225.photobucket.com...

what are yopu talking about?

its pretty clear that the gun in the upper right hand corner of the gow2 pick owns everything on the ps3 graphically.