I think you mean 'all-time best seller'...

P.S.

http://i19.tinypic.com/6laf...

Im sure this article has a ps3 undertone too it.

People are so ignorant, sony would let their other parts of their company go down before they let the ps3 die

and the ps3 is selling faster than the xbox 360 is.

Monthly NPD won't show you this all the time

The dreamcast paid for the sins of its father - Saturn

Play TOy commander for it - was hard but awesome

Piracy.

I remember playing Headhunter on my US Dreamcast. A friend let me borrow it. It hadn't even been released in NA. Thats when I knew the Dreamcast was dead. You didn't even need to mod your system to play back up games.

lack of RPGs killed it in japan - they came too late and too few

First of all, the dreamcast controller sucked; only one analogue, very few buttons, huge, horrible face buttons, etcetera. Second, the memory cards were gimmicky and that cost SEGA more than it should. Third, no DVD playback ensured it wouldn't be bought at launch by casuals. Fourth, it had very few games worth buying i.e. poor 3rd party support and the few worth buying weren't really appealing, not because they were bad, but because they were unknown. Fifth, no *native out of the box* backwards compatibility with the Saturn. Sixth, Windows out of the box (lol). 7th, it was rushed to the market. 8th, after the 32X, Sega CD, the unlaunched Neptune and the Saturn, SEGA was in a very poor financial state.

People need to accept that the dreamcast was utter crap. What wasn't crap were some of its exclusives such as Shenmue, VF3, Sonic, Soul Calibur and a few others but in general it was just an abomination.

"People need to accept that the dreamcast was utter crap"

wow. did you really just put that. dreamcast = one of the best consoles

The same reason that the ps3 is dying no developer support.

The reason the Dreamcast died. It couldn't compete with the PS2 when it was announced. The PS2 had much stronger third-party support and more games (Final Fantasy X or Crazy Taxi??) Sega became so desperate that they started giving "free" Dreamcasts to people who signed up for SegaNet. My brother won one of these Dreamcasts in fact. He then sold it 2 months later for a PS2. Now he is trying to find a usable one to play again.

http://www.onnetworks.com/v...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Utter crap...

HAHAHAHAH omg... wait... that was quite funny. The Dreamcast was a rollercoaster ride for its time, mate. Great games, great visuals, high quality arcade ports (actually the same quality as in the arcades, as Naomi was basically a dreamcast)... and VMU was a great concept.

I think no DVD was an ill play by sega. But it was an expensive thing nontheless for the time it released. Sony did some overhyping of it´s upcoming console, showing things it was not able to do until WAY WAY into it´s lifecycle (and some CG vids and vaporware that never saw light) which made many PS1 buyers wait for PS2... So yes, some of the fault was Sony´s (which is ok, its a crude business, lets not pretend sony is not a company which will try to maximize it´s incomes wether that implies lying a little bit in order to undermine the competition or not)

So there was Sega´s fault in it, and some of sony´s too.

But saying it failed because it was crap is actually having a great lack of taste in gaming...

You guys are considering the Dreamcast one of the best for its time. I assume it's because of the games, and that may be right, but I consider it crap for many reasons related only to the hardware. Its controller, its media, its silly memory cards...

Anyway, as "The Dude" exaggerated with plenty of sensationalism and fanboyism (if not ignorance) on his side but with a bit of truth to it (just a bit, don't get your hopes up "THE DUDE"), Sony lost the crown of the console market because of initially stumbling third party support (though ironically now it has more than Xbox 360 if you consider all the ports and exclusives that it's been getting left and right) and because of the price.

Even though Microsoft's tactics of gimping one game by announcing DLC for the other or making the release of a particular console version be delayed to either come out a year later (or to come out at the same time in case of former timed exclusives) are despicable from a gamer's stand point, it would be silly to blame Microsoft for Sony's stumbles.

You kidding me? Are you talking about the Dreamcast?
Bro, the Dreamcast is, well in my opinion, one of the better consoles of the last generation.

It had some nice, and innovative, features.

"It had some nice, and innovative, features. "

Aside of SegaNET, what else? IMHO, the Dreamcast was incomplete. It wasn't a full-fledged next-gen console, it seemed as if it was aimed to compete with PS1 and N64 rather than with PS2 and "Dolphin" (at the time we didn't know anything about Xbox I suppose).

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

:)

WOW@ZuperAmazingCooKie DAMN really? so let me guess the PS3 controller was better, hell no... hell the Dreamcast actually had quake 3 and it played ok too! The graphics crush the PS2 making the only reason to get a PS2 was for DVD play back. Companies pulling out on sega and that boot disk thing killed the Dreamcast for good.

I know the controller looks funny but I have to ask have you played one? When you actually play one the look of the controller goes away because it actually works.

See this is why gaming sucks right now even the fans do not know what they are talking about!

The controller sucked. Dreamcast had better graphics? LMAO. The PS2 was more powerful and its best eclipsed the best of Dreamcast; even developers acknowledged that the PS2 was a pretty powerful piece of kit. Only fanboys say otherwise.

Edit:

I just read the bullsh1t you posted down below, clearly you're a 360 fanboy like most of the dreamcast losers. "360 has more Texture RAM", LMAO I have never read something so ignorant before, Texture RAM as opposed to non-texture RAM? LMAO you made my day bro. Funny that you claim everyone here is so young except you when you know jack sh1t.

"360 and PS3 are the same except 360 has more texture RAM big deal" -LMAO, quote of the day

http://kineticninja.blogspo...

ZuperAmazingCooKie if you don't know what I mean by more texture ram then I'm not going to explain it to you and I'm not a 360 owner nor a MS fan. It's funny how you even said the PS2 was more powerful than the dreamcast.

Hey but call me what you will if it make sense in your mind. It you know these systems then you know what I'm talking about and if you know the PS2 then you also know what I'm talking about.

I posted because you are one of the first I've ever meet that knew about the dreamcast and did not like it. I find that weird. The dreamcast died because only the hardcore supported it, no casual games at all not even DVD play back. If you look at the dreamcast catalog you will see games that seen as classic games that people mostly the hardcore would still play to this day.

No i'm not a sega fan either but I loved their arcade stuff before and even I loved the dreamcast.

It's pretty close to the truth, no matter how many disagrees it gets. Not too mention Shady business practices. Sony wasn't allowing it's console to grace Gamestop and Ebgames stores if it didn't get upfront notice. This required them putting Dreamcast shovelware and hardware in back display.

Very true Jack.All my friends sold their Dreamcasts once the emotion engine was revealed.Promises of Toy story level graphics was unheard of and i sadly joined the hype train as well.

Last Christmas i went back to Africa for the holidays and i had dinner with some of my old mates, and we were all talking about the amount of fun we had with the Dreamcast.We all wished we did not sell ours but we had no choice because we were young and could not afford to own 2 consoles and the hype surrounding the ps2 was to much to ignore.

I think that is the reason i did not rush out to buy a PS3 on day one but will instead wait and get one once the games i want are out which are GT5 and GoW.

Sony had claimed at the time that the performance of the PS2 was 20 times more powerful than the dreamcast.

Quote;
While the original PlayStation has a pixel fill-rate of 66 MegaPixels per second, the PlayStation 2 has a rate of 2,400 MegaPixels per second. According to SCE, this equals about three times the performance of the top-of-the-line Silicon Graphics Infinite Reality Engine 2. According to Phil Harrison, Vice President of Third Party Relations and Research and Development for Sony Computer Entertainment America, this is close to 20 times the performance of the Power VR (the technology that is the basis for the Dreamcast).

http://www.allgame.com/plat...

When you grow up you'll realize that SEGA screwed up big time in many ways with the Dreamcast and all of its predecessors. Whoever ate that "Emotion Engine = Toy Story graphics" crap is a complete moron anyway, lol. The PS2 still blew the Dreamcast out of the water in everything except online play. It was technically a lot more advanced and it showed, regardless of the fact that it did not live up to your dumbass expectations.

Now I understand why so many Xbox cheerleaders want the death of Sony and the PS3 so badly, they want "TEH REVENGE!", most of you were evidently Dreamcast fanboys. And to the one that "vowed" never to own a PS2, you must have no life and be so much of a sad individual if you have to blame Sony before SEGA for Dreamcast's failure, i.e. a corporation A for Corporation B's failure to cope with market realities. How sad that you missed the best generation of gaming in terms of amount and quality.

BTW guys, your tears are very sweet, keep crying because they taste so good.

"this is close to 20 times the performance of the Power VR (the technology that is the basis for the Dreamcast)."

Uh, that's not claiming that PS2 is 20 times more powerful than Dreamcast, that's claiming the emotion engine can achieve 20 times the performance for PIXEL FILL RATE, not for everything in general. Each machine has pros and cons and fill rate was a PS2 advantage.

@cookie

Firstly i own one of every playstation console made.
i never meant to have the word powerful in there - my fault.
Some of their comments at the time were misleading - but that is not their fault - consumers, like myself were to blame.
I also own one of every xbox console made.
But i am loyal to no-one and am not blind to their flaws.
(Not that what sony did was a flaw - it was good business)
i did not say it was sony's exclusive fault
read my other comments
if anything the saturn was the biggest factor

Let me clarify a bit more.

When the ps2 was being launched, they did show a lot of cgi + did reference toy story for graphical quality. then they threw out a lot of jargon trying to explain how much more powerful the ps2 was.Most people without a lot of technical knowledge put 2 and 2 together and unfortunately got 5.BTW this piece of history is why early killzone2 footage was attacked.

Thing is, at this time, many console owners had no understanding of what some of these numbers meant because it was never really an issue. We just waited for the gameplay which we thought we were being shown. You may understand much more at an equivalent age - more power to you.

But no-one can blame sony for their own lack of knowledge. Ultimately the consumer must educate himself.

the quote was really aimed at green and those who remember the panic felt when specs were being thrown at us. I jumped ship too. sorry i did not explain better or if i still have not

Yes i agree i was 19 and a moron.If i knew better i would not have sold my Dreamcast to buy a ps2 but would have kept it and bought a ps2 when it had good games and the reliability issue had been sorted instead of selling my Dreamcast to buy a PS2 and have that break 3 times in 2 years with terrible launch games.But all things are not bad because if not for my horrible reliability problem with the ps2, i would not have bought an XBOX.

I learned from my mistakes because this time the hype fell on deaf ears.So happy i did not dish out £425 on day one for a PS3.By the time i get one it would be almost half that price and the Sony exclusives i care for GoW3 and GT5 would be out.

rambi80 and cookie you guys must be really young. The power of the system has always been hyped. Before it was about what the machine could actually do now it has just evolve to a a point where companies can get away with just saying hey we only tapped 70% of the system and the game could look way better!

Seriously I wonder if most of you would buy a car if it got 70% of the gas mileage it was advertise to get.

Devs and console makers know how gullible the hardcore gamer is and they love a great hype story. If pioneer wanted to bring out a system and got 3rd party support they could easily be up their with the other two HD machines. Suns alpha chips and other mythical real performance chips could easily confused the hell out of you all and just put a PC GPU up there and get you all to buy it.

If you have been working in this industry or playing the games since the NES you could not forget this. Gamers shunned the PC back in the day and then ended up becoming the same type of player simply because of hype and defaming the real game developers.

Another thing is if you take away CD and DVD player SONY had nothing to jump start their consoles. What is funny is what will SONY have next gen? A new blu ray player?

The funny thing is how every one claims that the PS2 was the weakest this gen yet fan sites just like this claimed that it was more powerful. Developers before said the same things they where saying now for the PS3 back then for the least powerful system which was the PS2. If we can just get better programmers the PS2 could do better.

After the developers and even the media confirmed this fact some thing happened. All the vets turned away. Notice how xbox fans out number the PS3 even thought the PS2 won. Notice how nintendo's new fans out number both groups. The hardcore gaming industry lost a lot once that came out and every one acted like it did not matter. It was so messed up no one even posted about it on the net. Those gamers just left gaming all together. There was not even a fight. The same thing happened with sega fans... where are they now?

Seriously gaming has been going for a long time and lots of you guys need to sate when you truly started being hardcore because you are loosing respect from your peers by spreading the wrong data.

I also warned about hype and truthfully that along could kill the PS3, it's a ticking time bomb every developer knows it and in the end we will all say yeah the PS3 and 360 where pretty much the same yet the 360 had more texture ram big deal. I look forward to seeing that in the gaming media next gen after the hype no longer matters.

True gamer since the 8-bit era here... Really lived through all the 16 bit era battle between sega and nintendo. Still miss the Arcade boom, something Japan has learnt not to loose.

Deep in my heart I have always seen Sony a bit like an "intruder"... loving the PS1 and PS2 yet... but I guess some things cannot be bought. For me, Sega will always be up there. What can I say... and before you speak about what a flop the saturn was (setting a bad base for the DC) you should think one more step back: Sega CD + 32 X being the second too rushed and quite abandoned within a heartbeat... That ill move left sega stumbling in the eyes of consumers, which then saw Saturn with negative eyes (still a GREAT console, to be honest, with some TRUE gaming jewels unmatched)... Sega (and nintendo too) where in a different ball game than Sony (an electronic giant who just saw a gap and jumped in with a LOT of $$ to a market they where strangers to) at the time of the PS1...

When Sega released the DC (though many consumers turned to the new giant, Sony, with their promises of an ubber console) me, already a hardcore gamer, just believed sega... and I was not dissappointed at all... If you actually OWNED a Sega Dreamcast, you cannot possible say it sucked ZuperAmazingCooKie... The controls where excellent (responsive and ergonomically felt nice) the games library was really good (great if you liked arcades) and a stupid gimmick as you may consider the VMU, was quite a fancy thing, which while not fully exploited, had some nice features (and if you lived in japan, a lot more)...

PS2 was a great console. A little dissappointing in the beginning for my taste. But it started bringing a huge tide of games as years passed by, building an enourmous library.

proportionally speaking, DC had more good games than the PS2, in it´s shorter and more reduced lifespan...

But well... PS2 lasted longer, which is a great added value, I will recognize.

All in all.. DC was and is still a great console

I've had most mainstream consoles since the NES came out, I played the Atari classics at the arcades, and many Dreamcast or Saturn games I missed I played at the arcades (I actually would have liked to own a Saturn in its time more than I did a dreamcast back then).

You know, I'd actually like to catch up on the few games I missed on the Dreamcast anyway (Shenmue and Omikron especially) even though I think it sucked because of its lack of features, including a last-gen format, its controller lacked buttons and an additional analogue stick (fundamental for next-gen, I love how apologists don't care about this one), and lack of complete backwards compatibility. You must think I am a fanboy but I actually loved the Sega Genesis (even though I liked my SNES more) and I loved the Sega Saturn, in fact I thought the Saturn was much better for its time than the dreamcast for its time.

Regardless, I think it's funny when people blame Sony for Sega's faults. Sony did nothing wrong, Sega was also a hype machine for all its consoles, same for Microsoft and Nintendo with its "N64 Dreamteam", the 64DD, and the Gamecube "Fun Machine" bullsh1t (I loved Nintendo until they released the Wii, I put up through all their crap).

Whatever Sony (or anyone else) promised and YOU believed is your problem. Running Scissors lost all his credibility the instant he mentioned that Dreamcast was more powerful than PS2. I think it's funny that he also mentions that the 360 = PS3 with "more texture RAM" (as opposed to non-texture RAM? LMAO a computer genius we got here, oh wait). I rather believe what developers say about consoles rather than some sore Dreamcast fanboy that will always be on the opposing side of whoever he thinks killed the dreamcast. John Carmack claimed you could extract more power from PS3; EA, Sega and Activision claimed that PS3 was the most sophisticated piece of equipment they have ever worked with; Factor 5 chose the PS3 because

If anything will be remembered next-generation about the PS3 and 360 is that 360 had better running multiplatform games due to PS3's difficulties, but that PS3's exclusives just kept raising the bar. Only fanboys will say otherwise.

Matpan bubbles to you man. Now that's a hardcore gamer right there. I wanted SONY to take gaming seriously also I did not want a Philips or 3do. I was starting grad school then and we had bought a dev system the cheapest one.I was going to start work on the blue PS2s at my employer and I found out really quick that sony did not want 2d games on their system. It had to be 3d even if it looked like crap! So I feel your pain when it comes to the importer thing. Yet SONY brought other good things with them and every one (devs) jumped on board once the new tools came out.

I think you have put a finger on what has happened here Matpan. Before the leaders of gaming sega and nintendo changed what gaming was and every one loved it. Now the HD console come and the hardcore seem more pi$$ed off than happy. Before you would only find web sites full of excitement now you find web sites full of flames. It almost seems as though the HD guys have shunned what games where back in the day and you almost have to self publish a 2d game your self these days.

Nintendo even had to concentrate on other gamers just to be heard this gen. Then sega has their games on a nintendo console and even they are having a hard time bring that old arcade flavor back to gaming.

Hey it's nice to see there are some traditional hardcore gamers still around. That post made my day Matpan. Now wouldn't it be cool if SONY and MS figured out why we loved the old stuff so much and made games like the ones during the arcade days. I mean really online is good but that's about all we have from them right now other than graphics and why does 2d games still have better art design than 3d games? Oh yeah the saturn rocked, only problem was I was in college trying to finish up!

ZuperAmazingCooKie you lost all creditability when you said the dreamcast sucked. I just wanted to hear your full rant on why. It's your opinion so I'm not going to waste to much time arguing that point with you ok.

Ok do I really need to explain the ram thing to you? It's true and you don't have to believe me go and look up the specs along with some docs on programming both of them I'm sure they are still in PDF form on the web some where GDC wasn't that long ago. I want to point out that it doesn't matter any more sense most of you will not be able to see the difference if the mip mapping is done correctly any way. You guys are looking at art and claiming victory not architecture. It's also true nuaghty dog is pushing console graphics more than epic right now simply by way of art. The same thing happened to id and epic on the PC. I know I know your on your PS3 fanboy guard right? If so then there is no reason to post to you about it, because I'm not here to win you over to any system. Using the extra ram from the 360 pool of ram you get guess what more ram even if it is 50% to 20% it will let you put more effects on screen. It's clear that all the artist want to work on SONY system right now maybe because many don't like MS? Which is true...... SONY is actually hiring a lot of people right now! This whole my system is better thing is getting silly because HD wise these console are barely getting the job done yet it does look very good by console standards. Yet I don't know if you realize what the PS3 could do with more ram or lets say a system pool of ram.

The dreamcast controller was just fine. It's D-pad still crushes the xbox and the PS brand, it's analog is up there with nintendo's and I remember people loving their controller while people just put up with SONY's.
Dual analog still sucks for 3d. The KB and mouse still beats it and the funny thing is it never had analog set ups, crazy huh? Hey some people prefer that though.

No one is sore about any thing because regardless of what I like I will still get a pay check. This is just about personal preference. Fanboys don't make the system developer do.

I´m with ya scissor! Nice to see a sega Fan :) Old school gaming still has a lot to teach to this next gen...
While I still think 2d games are mucho more compelling when transmitting an art style, I still believe some 3d devs get it right every now and then. Specially when they step appart from photorealism (which is just fine... but a little boring, I mean back in the days some games tried photorealism too... and I still preferred those wih nicely designed cartoony feel to them).. where are the devs like shiny? where is MDK? Giants, citizen Kabuto? and Psychonauts? I love Ratchet and clank, the new banjo kazooie, and some other games like overlord which propose new things or try a different approach, or an older look(SFIV!!)

I would just like for this games to push over the edge, not just the "photorealistic ones"... people just tend to admire and boast those graphic beasts. I want to see the same poly count and dev time in a game that look more Disneyish than those in Crysis or KZ2 to make a stupid example.

I want exagerations like burnout paradise, not games trying to be perfect imitations of real life. I want a car to fly in the air for ridiculous long times before hitting the ground in a stupidly cheese scene.

But I guess it´s me... IDK... I salute all gamers here, those who go both for realism or ridiculism, And I favour both devs equaly... I just would like to see more of the second. We need some more of that. Less cool, more cheesy :)

Matpan

send me a PM, do you work in the industry because it would be nice to get some like minds together on this talking point. If you go and look in the professional sites online you will find that edge you speak of yet no one wants to make games using this art.

Realism was cool when we could not do it yet now it is like drawing the simpsons in life drawing class. You are right some games get it right yet even they don;'t have the game play to match.

I've been tip toeing around this at work but it needs to be said and done. Hardcore gaming is a sinking island and it's not nintendo fault it is sinking it is just running out of players.