u just completley made and ass of your self. u should comit suicide

was a cool read, never knew some of the things behind the cell, what makes the cell, pretty cool read anyway

Everyone should read this ...Its amazing how the ps3 works...yet at the same time I can see why it isnt fully visualized by some

Many people can talk about the Cell being great, but what's most important is if it's right for gaming and if the different parts (GPU etc) are all working together like they should.

And we can clearly see it doesn't. It isn't the most optimal choice for gaming. Multiplatform games look best on the 360. The best AAA game out now is on the 360. There are limits with the memory, the OS of the PS3 eats up 100 MB of it's 512 MB RAM, where the 360 only uses about 30 MB of the 512 MB...

The cell is great to calculate how far the sun is from the earth maybe. Now let it work to make better games

@ Deepbrown (below)

Yeah man I know about the Cell being able to do GPU tasks. Sony even believed they didn't need a seperate GPU to do the trick. IN the end they found out the Cell couldn't do it.

So I guess it isn't as powerfull as Sony wanted us to believe. And I still don't see what is so great about Motorstorm. It's nice but no AAA. The other titles are still to come. Even Resistance isn't great, but just good.

Motorstorm is looking nice, but it's not the CGI they showed @ E3 2005
Sony didn't make the optimal mix of components, thats why they had to run and go out to buy a GPU in a rush. And with the games out now it looks like the PS3 can't keep up with the 360

Well The Mart I wondered if you actually read the article. I do agree that it depends on the other parts...but I wonder if you read about memory use for the cell? The ps3 os using up that much memory is also just speculation. As you can see from the article, the Cell is more like a GPU than a CPU, so is perfect for games...if you like it's a general GPU if you will...and then the ps3 has another GPU to finish everything off.

If you read the article you can see the possibilities for developing for cell. Don't worry TheMart, there are other ways to do things and we may never see the cell used to full optimisation. It isn't a threat to the 360 yet...so don't feel threatened and don't post something that shows you feel threatened. Just let people read the article and learn about something which is hella interesting.

Also I find it amusing that you say it isn't right for games...Some of the most complex games are coming out for the ps3 this year. Motorstorm, Lair and Heavenly Sword. Some of these have been in development for 4years and have been solely working on the ps3 as a gaming machine. And the results they are getting is amazing.

The 360 is also a gaming machine and will be coming up with just as good games with different strengths.

Ps3 plays games, and amazing games at that. So does the 360. So if the ps3 can pull these games out and isn't any good for games...then what if you were wrong and it is hella good for games...then you my young sir would be in the sh't.

"trillion calculations per second. Awesome. 360 can only do a measely 1 trillion caluclations. Bluray = 50gb. Ps3 = winner!"

The PS3 only does 1 trillion as well and Blue-Ray is not needed for gaming.

Blu Ray is needed for gaming..with ever gaming generation more space was needed what makes this one any different unless u saying this generation is inferior to the last ones....

If its needed. But rather can it benefit gaming and the answer to that is obvious. Although people can argue its not needed. No one can however logically say it can't be used to benefit gaming. By saying this you are then calling Blu-Ray inferior to standard DVD wich it clearly is not.

Just My Logical View on it.

As a highly anticipated and hyped up game....

Have limited online features and only 8 tracks?

Blu ray holds 50 gigs of data...Motorstorm was showed of 2 years ago at E3 2005. And all they could come up with is 8 tracks and a measily online option showing?

Granted its still "Fun". And its still solidly rated. But when are we going to see the advantages of Blu ray and the Cell? Could it be that there are no advantages "FOR GAMES"?

Think about it. The xbox launched one year after the ps2 launched but yet the launch games blew away the ps2 games that were in its second generation.

I'm tired of all the excuses from sony. Show me "in regards to games" how blu ray and the Cell advances next gen games. Because right now....with me having both consoles....the 360 clearly has better next gen games. From 1st party to 3rd party. How much time are we suppose to give Sony? 600 dollars. I want results "NOW". And shouldn't we? In the meanwhile. I enjoy my ps3 for blu ray movies. And I enjoy my 360 for Next Gen games and HD dvd movies.

love how DEEPBROWN tries to come off as neutral, but in actuality he's just as bad as DJ!! any time TheMart or anybody says anything about the Ps3 that he don't agree with he goes on the attack!! everybody can see that right now the cell an rsx is being out performed by the xbox!! you guys keep talking about games that's not even released yet(lair,motorstorm,heavenly sword)you dont know how these games look or play, but you keep putting them on top or better than current xbox360 games. you guys dont know, so please stop with your fanboy crap!! right now (march 4th) the PS3 aint worth the cost of admission.not saying its a bad system because its not, but I can get better running, slightly sharper graphics, an better online gaming for 200 dollars less!!

hype proven to be only half truths and speculation?

Read the article, and if you do you will find that this article from 2 YEARS ago, makes the following points. Let me break this long winded article down in english. This system is based on spe's (not cores) driven by one ppe(a core). It takes data assigned through a compiler to deliver to spes to do some calculations. Thats it. Now based on the complexity of the compiler and the programmers ability at programming in C language, is how difficult the system is to prgram optimally for. Where this article written today, it would have a vastly different tone. This article is written with the cell doing graphics for the system. This was already debunked as unrealistic 8 months ago and Sony had to scramble and put a two year old Graphics set from Nvidia that never released (equivalent to two 6800 ultra's running in SLI). The compiler for the system is way behind the curve and short of staying the release of the ps3 another year or two, would be impossible to attain the level of preformance from this article. This article is based on theoreticals for a perfect world situation. None of which is reality. The previously mentioned games Lair, Motorstorm, Heavenly Sword have been in development since over 2 years before the 360 launch and still come only moderately close to Gears of War for graphics and have yet to even launch. So, you are telling me programming for this system and compiler, is easy you need a reality check. The author even said should you want to compile the data by hand yourself you would have to be mad. If you want 2 year old articles, with more truth than this peice read this one: http://xbox360.ign.com/arti... at least its more accurate. Sony fanboys please stop, wait for a game to release, the promises to be kept, or something to be delivered before we believe another word from this company. I like Sony but enough bs for awhile ok, show me something I can play.

This is not new.

The proof is in the pudding. So how are the games turning out? Yeah...right we all know the answer to that one.

One days worth of good news and the PS3 calvary rides into town. LOL On the internet is the only place you kids are going to get away with this stuff. People who really own PS3 act allot different in person than on the web.

The main thing here is you must read the whole document.

Cell Programming Issues

One article had suggested that some developers had found the performance of both the Cell and the XBox360’s processors to be low. This article was highly controversial and the original was removed but that didn’t stop it spreading, [Comment] . It appears the developers have taken some decidedly single threaded game code and ran it on pre-preproduction hardware with a processor optimised for multi-threading and stream processing (most likely with an immature compiler). That the performance wasn’t what they expected is not so much news as blindingly obvious. Of course the more cynical might suggest that’s exactly what these developers expected...

Getting the full potential from a Cell will be more difficult than programming a single threaded PC application. Multiple execution threads will be necessary as will careful choice of algorithms and data flow control.

There are not exactly new problems and solutions have long existed to them. Multiprocessor or even uni-processor servers have been doing this sort for thing for donkey’s years. It’s all old hat to BeOS programmers and many other programmers for that fact. You will likely see technologies appearing from other areas (e.g. application servers) which take the pain out of thread management.

The same will also happen to the PC in time so they’re not going to get off lightly. The problems that need to be solved for programming a Cell are exactly the same problems that need to be solved for programming a multi-core PC processor.

The types of algorithms which a Cell will be bad at are the very same algorithms that a PC processor is bad at. Any algorithm which reads data from memory in a non-linear manner will cause your CPU to twiddle its thumbs as it sits waiting for the relevant memory to get pulled in, such algorithms are also likely to cause cache thrashing so it won’t help much. Branch prediction is not much use either as it works on instructions, not data.

Cell will suffer here (possibly more so) but smart programmers can do tricks like splitting data into blocks and reading all the relevant data into the SPE’s local memories in one go, this will make algorithms on which the Cell is supposedly bad, vastly quicker. The SPEs can communicate internally and read from each others local stores, if all SPEs are used for this nearly 2 MB can conceivably be used at once. This will not be possible on a PC as cache works in a completely different way.

The Cell also supports stream processing via the local stores, this can drastically reduce the need to go to memory and they will perform best in this configuration. The Xenon has special cache modifications (locking cache sets) to allow streaming but PC CPUs appear to have no direct way to support this currently.

Programming The Cell: Conclusion

From reading various articles and conference papers / presentations it’s clear that there are many different Cell development models under active development, some of these are complex, others designed to make things easy. These developments will take considerable time to become mature so won’t show their full potential for some time to come.

The patent described a highly complex system which would be highly complex to program, a lot of work is going on to make sure this is not the case. Tools and middleware will be developed to make things easier still.

The Cell was designed as a general purpose system but tuned for specific classes of algorithms. These kinds of algorithm are very common and are utilised in a major chunk of the kinds of software which require high performance. PCs vendors have nothing to worry about, it’s the workstation vendors that should be worried.

STOP ACTING LIKE NOOBS.

How can u say xbox runs better...so far i have seen no problems with ps3 big enough that they need to do a massive recall....also graphics 1 generation games resistance looks jsut as good as any xbox game besides gears of war....also better online that u pay for with the life of your system that will cost u the same as a ps3 200=4 years of xbox live lets say it stays around for 5...250...thats not even counting the accesory cost for wireless..controllers and that stupid charge pack and so on to do what came with ps3 yet no one sees that..with a next genration dvd player built in...

@the Fart.
If you didn't believe every bad,fake rumor about ps3 and then actually took some time to read all the way through this article. You may begin to understand that the cell and the whole OS is complete customizable. Its all up to the programmer. You could use 100mb of ram wasting away in the background or you could use every single bit of the systems 512 ram. only problem with that is the programmer would need to disable online play because the OS needs to be running. I personally believe that the Cell is a MONSTER, and I'm not using that world lightly. I would bet money that when the big games start rolling in, the graphical differences between 360 and PS3 will be like night and day. I banking killzone will live up to the hype. WHY? because im a mindless fanboy??
No, because if you look a little closer you would know that there are over 120 developers working on this title. Budget you say? rumored to have already passed the $25 million mark. Also there taking there sweet sweet time. I remember reading about how patient there developers are. know who (Arjan Brussee) is? he is the director. why is he so special? Because he takes his time and wont let Sony rush this title. lots of money, time and a huge staff working hard to figure out this powerhouse =360 killer. not just Halo killer. http://www.gamespot.com/ps3...
An old refresher:)
Oh and stop comparing Fall Of man to the cells power. Why again? because only 40 developers rushed the sh%t out of that game while Sony held there family's in a room similar to what you see in the movie SAW, to get it out for lanch. Was Gears rushed? Hell no... Not to bash on insonimac studies or anything but they might as well have programmed that game with blind folds on. those poor saps had no idea what they were doing, and the game still looks good. I hope Bill gates is wearing a diaper when killzone 2 makes Halo3 look like a last gen game.
PS bioshock does look beautiful.

???? you dont

the ps3 spu is made like a p3 cpu way back when i read an article and its alot less powerful in realtime than on paper especially compared to 360

Good point. Deepbrown is wrong. On paper according to SONY...the ps3 pushes More "Numbers"...but on paper...according to MS....the 360 is more powerful for "Games"...

The 360 has 3 PPU's...

The ps3 has 1 PPU

It doesn't take a genious to see which has the advantage.

The 360 has 512 ram for graphics...The GPU

The ps3 has 256 ram for Graphcis...The GPU..

Once again...it doesn't take a genious to see which has the advantage....for "GAMES"...

Where the ps3 has an advantage...which has absolutely anything to do with games...is "floating point performance".....Which is not optimal for game code but rather hd video streaming...Not for maintaining and running game code. It can....but its difficult and not optimal. Thats where you get the high numbers it pushes...from the floating point figures...Sony knew what it was doing. Peak numbers being pushed doesn't translate into "great" next gen games. Thats the exact reason why ps3 3rd party games don't look or play as good as the same game running on the xbox 360. Its really not that complicated.

Now don't get me wrong. I believe that developers will make some great next gen exclusive content for the ps3 at some point. Just like they did with the ps2. But you have to be honest about the comparissons. And realize MS did a fabulous job in creating the xbox 360. But in the end...its all about the games.

A wolf in sheeps clothing indeed the fool called me a retard and got personal the other day for me stating my opinions he told me to go back and crawl under my hole.

PS3's no super computer. Looks like Sony's console killing hype will always come back if unchalanged by open minded fans. Deepbrown and others like him did a good job keeping the peace although he's clearly a Sony fan that likes games enough to not bash!, but misslead.

The 360's more powerful and is balanced in a way where it out performs the PS3 no matter how they try and spin it.

Sony's hype machine was crushed when the reality of what PS3 realy was; when it launched but don't think for one second that pedigree mindset and pro Sony hype wont re-surface. They keep harping on 5-6 games like the second coming of Christ. lol

is trying his best,but he is failing.if the ps3 was not optimal for games and if the ps3 only had 256 of ram,all games would look inferior on ps3.or games just wouldn't be coming at all.don't use rushed ports as excuses.ps3 has games and good looking ones at that.

but this isn't about ps3.it's about cell.cell was built to be FAST.and do a lot of work by itself if programmed properly.it surpasses conventional cpus and is an evolution.you won't see 3 core chips being used like the cell in other products.you won't see it used for science.you won't see it used by high end businesses.you won't see it in everyday electronics.but you will see cell based and cell like chips taking over.because it's like my analogy:

"move a heavy table by yourself is difficult.move it with helpers is easy."(as long as everyone is going the same way-lol)

cell does it the same way.3 cores is fast.but is still slow compared to cell and less efficient and much hotter.that's just FACT.anyone watching star trek could see those isolinear chips working together to run the ship.it wasn't just ONE BIG CHIP.it was multiple chips working together.

will ps3 be able to use that power?who knows.it takes knowledge and understanding of the chip to know.but anyone can see that old ideas are dying out.you would never be able to make cds small enough or compress enough to put tons of music files on it.but ipods store thousands of songs.no cds there.who would have thought that i can store cd quality sound of thousands of songs around my neck?or be able to drive a car with NO GASOLINE and be as fast as a gasoline car.(course big brother killed that idea("who killed the electric car?" on dvd)it's the same with things like this.

sometimes you got to let go of old ways of thinking and move into the the next era of technology.and if you can't figure it out,that's what school is for.to get educated.

y people r saying that ps3 can't keep up with the 360,(themart) dude do the math and read alil be better. u think Europe like the 360 better than the ps3, no they don't and u think Japan, China, and Australia like the 360 better than ps3 no they don't, and America like both. I do like the 360 and i own one, but u guys (360fans) think that 360 is better than ps3 in everything, no it's not.

I think ps3 gonna have better games than 360 this year, and that don't make me a fanboy, and i know HALO 3 is coming out soon, so sony better watch out. I think that is too early to tell who's going to win this stupid @ss war and who has better graphics. It's just been a year.

(my opinion) that's the way i see it.

If so what makes you any differnt, TG's right 98% of the time vs your 100% truth/fact mixed with fictional half truths. Means you take what's true and mix it with things you made up when you dont think people know what you're talking about.

360's morepowerful has better games and the Online is better. Europe will be better for PS3 than in the states as China will be better for the 360 than Japan. Who cares.

he's just another game player.nothing else.what he say is just an opinion just like our comments being posted.

as i said before,if ps3 has HALF THE MEMORY AS XBOX 360,why do the GAMES LOOK JUST AS GOOD?only gears of war bests the top ps3 games.but it also tops the best 360 games.you can't have HALF but look AS good.if that's the case,then i hope the devs don't tap into that other 256 of ram.

your lies top gamer and power of green are apparent.we can see the games.you didn't make any more sales with your lies today.and it's only been 3 months for ps3 using NEW TECH.

but i see that as much as you hate sony and ps3 top gamer,it didn't stop you for buying the ps3.or buying bluray movies.

why buy the system unless it will have games that you can't get on 360?

why buy bluray movies unless there are movies that you can't get on hd-dvd?

it wasn't because of just you having money.it's because it will be a great playing game system that plays movies.

Yo no comprendo este articulo. Y no me importa. La semana proxima yo comprare motorstorm y despues comprare oblivion. Me gusto juegos videos.

PPU is the Power PC Unit. The ps3 has "ONE" The xbox 360 has 3. Each of the 3 is identical to the ps3's "ONE".

CPU is the Central Processing Unit.

Understand yet? I know it can get complicated and people like DJ can mix words up at an attempt to confuse people. But its really not that complicated.

The 360 uses 3 power pc units and the ps3 uses "ONE".

The 360 has 512 ram for the GPU....the ps3 uses 256 for the GPU.

Nothing I have stated above is that complicated to understand and its all 100% true.

Google is an amazing tool. Use it to gather information before you join in and make false claims and use terms you have no clue about.

shadowgamer .... Games on the ps3 don't have the same texture detail and graphical fidelity of games like Gears of War. Many 3rd party games on both systems don't have major leaps from the 360 to the ps3...but with the first party games...There is abosolutely no comparisson. I'm talking about Ram intensive graphics...Lighting, HDR, Shadowing, AA, ect....There is no "Gamer" on the planet that can look at Motorstorm and then look at Gears of War....and honestly be able to compare the Graphical Fidelity. Gears of War's texture detail is unrivaled...and the HDR and AA effects on it are Fantastic. Resistance can't even be named in the same breath in regards to graphics....Motorstorm looks "Good"...But I'm talking about the differences when a developer actually utilizes the amazing amount of ram the 360 has for Graphics...and the 10 embedded ram on the GPU that allows for HDR and AA with little to no penality to performace. Brilliant on Microsofts part.

THE HEAT SETS IN TRUTH HURTS SORRY GROW UP PEOPLE.

YES

YES

WHO CARES

...some of the people in this thread know more about processor design than they guys at IBM,Toshiba and Sony combined . ..for the love of god will you please get off you high horses and get back down to earth . These guys who designed and built the Cell have IQ`s higher than your combined microsoft ass kissing (TopGamer,power of Green,TheMART)now think about it ..thats gonna be a very large number . This whole 360 v PS3 is getting way beyond a joke now , they are 2 very different machines both having very different processors , both being coded very differently ,both running code very differently and both having good and bad points which some of us are able to see while other will always be blind to .

honestly i dont want to read all of this article to long but if cell is good cool if not doesnt matter ps3 still rules.

wow green, mart, top gamer get a life go play your precious 360.

wondering why i say this? the reason why is that this is ps3 news you might have got lost or deep down ps3 actually you alls favorite?

it says the cell has a TON OF BANDWITH was it like 25.6 the 360 has a total of 278.4

it says the cell has a TON OF BANDWITH was it like 25.6gig the 360 has a total of 278.4gig i would go on but i know what is better so good night

"But im feeling a little Marcus Fenix-ish" Dont mind if I do !!!

Let me give you guys a quick non-biased run down of the console and how they stack up.

First up, the brains of the machines.

Much has been said on the difference between the two machines' noggins, some biased towards the Microsoft and others towards Sony. The CPU in the latter has more going for it in terms of "core" hardware but the former's cores - while fewer - are more powerful. According to game designer Nick Harper,

The cores really place the power in the hands of developers. The Xbox 360 has 3 running at 3.2GHz each, the PS3 has seven apparently. So theoretically the PS3 is faster, much faster, which means it can do a lot more complex things. These days complex things refer to physics calculations and graphics operations. But it's all about how to use them as the power can only be exploited by using the cores together. It's a bit like having several complex puzzles to solve with several clever people available. If you give each person one puzzle will they solve it quicker than if you give all the people one puzzle at a time? The better developers will make their code efficient, meaning theoretically better games.

The PS3 will be more complex to develop for, which might mean that the first wave of games will be better on the 360.

In terms of the active memory on access, the PS3 is two times as powerful as the PS2 and the Xbox 360 is twice that.

The reason memory speed is an issue is purely for framerate. If you have a massive polygonal monster (err literally) to display that's a lot of vertices to process, on top of texture mapping, normal mapping, light mapping, per pixel shading etc etc yawn. And you're trying to squeeze all that data down a pipe to be processed and spat out at the other end. The faster your memory the more you can squeeze down the pipe at once, meaning the more data you can process. So memory and processor speed are very connected.

Now for those teraflops. The more there are, the faster the machine can do sums. In more high-tech speak, gamesindustry.biz says:

a measurement of how many of the floating point operations crucial to the graphics and physics in modern games can be processed per second

Sony wins in tech-talk on this crucial ground, with two times the terraflopping of the Xbox 360

Expect to see this utilised for physics and world realism. The actual core games probably won't change that much because we're still using the same input devices - analogue stick joypads. But certainly expect to see more going on. Some of it will be irrelevant to a game but pretty - trees swaying, individual leaves being affected by wind and so on; some of it will be much more relevant - armies of bad guys swarming toward you, massive explosions, things collapsing with true physics, etc.

With all the different processors added up, PS3 can perform twice as many raw calculations per second. In reality though, the different chips will need to wait for each other to catch up, so it will never run at full tech speed.

Conclusion: There's a lot pulling for the hearts and minds of next generation gamers. At this point, it's a battle between brand and multimedia functionality. the real test will be the software.

(And thats without claiming to own every console on gods green earth and treating them the same(wich is the purest form of bullshyt I ever seen. I have 3 cars and I think I love them the same I sometimes find myself driving one for weeks at a time also finding it hard to accept the others as much. Hell thats why we invented the word (Favourite). Its also without having an Anti-Sony or Anti-Microsoft Avatar.)

Both systems would need clustered just to stand up against some of the supercomputers going around today.

Also this argument is starting to get very old since we all know each system has their strengths and weaknesses and only the games and game developers will end up determining who will win.

The native intelligence of a computer, no matter how 'super', is roughly equivalent to that of an earthworm.Lets not get carried away here.

My point is, as i'm sure you are aware,a computer only runs programs written by people.It does NOT make those fantastic predictions you mention in your post, using any kind of native intelligence. The 'brain' is provided by the scientists that propose the theories.What a computer does, and all any computer is currently capable of doing, is manipulating binary digits extremely fast.Its a machine and a very, dumb one at that. Research the 'turing' test if you want to see how dumb computers really are. An earthworm at least, has some native intelligence.Don't let all this talk of 'super' computers fool you.Essentially it just means they are faster at doing the same thing they have always done :)

I am just lettting u all kno i am no longer posting on this site, i dont kno y i did in the first place, but it was foolish and pointless, no1 should ever get into all this. sorry if i ever offended any1 or anything, this is all just silly, just videogames, theres greater things in life, far greater!

Sure, there are more important things than video games,but this site isn't about just video games.This site is about human interaction,its about people, it represents the good, bad and ugly (some, very ugly judging by their portraits) of society. Every member on this site contributes something.O.k its not always positive contributions(looking at you fanboys) ,but its no less valid or important, because of it.The subject we talk about is video games, but we are really expressing a passion for something and thats ultimately always a positive and very human thing. I urge you to stay with us and have your say.

the ps3's cell has one core not seven the spe{snygergist processing elements} are NOT cores

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