220°

PS5 Pro’s PSSR Surpasses FSR and TSR At Lower Resolutions, Closer to DLSS3 – Albatroz Port Dev

Kyoday co-founder Ivaylo Koralsky also believes the upscaler will play "a significant role in the potential PS6 platform."

Read Full Story >>
gamingbolt.com
ABizzel1430d ago (Edited 430d ago )

PSSR is going to be a huge benefit for the PS5 Pro, but even more so the future generation of PlayStation. The next update is adding frame-generation, which should theoretically already be possible with AMD Fluid Motion Frames, of Sony creating their own solutions based on AMD FMF, and improve image quality in the couple of areas PSSR isn’t quite there while also reducing it’s footprint.

Then and only then will it be a DLSS 3 competitor, which honestly they seem only 2 - 3 years away from achieving that at most with the parts already being there.

Sonic1881430d ago (Edited 430d ago )

In 2-3 years, Nvidia will probably announced a new technology that's better than DLSS by then. PC technology and parts evolves way faster than the fixed console market.

Eonjay430d ago

Sony actually invented hardware based super resolution. It was called Checkerboading and it came out in 2016 before DLSS and it was hated on simply for being part of PlayStation. The inovation came first to consoles.

UnterArt430d ago

@Eonjay
While first on consoles checkerboarding comes from a combination of several techniques that existed on PC, such as TAA, DRS, SSAA, and bicubic/bilinear filtering.

Einhander1972430d ago

UnterArt

Those are software based, PlayStation had the first hardware based upscaler.

DLSS, FSR, XESS all came after Checkerboard.

UnterArt430d ago (Edited 430d ago )

@Einhander1972
Checkerboarding on the PS4 is hardware accelerated, the hardware assists in accelerating and optimizing the rendering process, but the checkerboarding algorithm and pixel reconstruction are mainly managed through software techniques, such as those I stated, which checkboarding is based around to even function.

CrimsonIdol430d ago (Edited 430d ago )

@unter I think you're giving checkerboard rendering a little too much credit, it's basically interlacing 2.0. just every other pixel rendered each frame instead of every other line, with some filtering to try and smooth out where it fails. It's a small but somewhat impactful adjustment to a technique that's been around for a literal century.

Einhander1972430d ago

It's a hardware based solution, it's more like FSR than it is like the purely software techniques.

UnterArt430d ago

@Einhander1972
There's a difference between hardware accelerated and hardware based, checkerboarding is a not a purely hardware solution, it requires a software solution that's accelerated by hardware. This isn't difficult to understand.
@CrimsonIdol
As I said, it's a combination of older techniques.

CrimsonIdol430d ago (Edited 430d ago )

@Ein. No, it's a software based solution that the PS4 Pro had dedicated hardware for. FSR is also software. PSSR is also software. DLSS is also software. Also. The 360 had a dedicated hardware based scaler.

Shiore2u430d ago

Been watching this and I just saw Einhander1972 get five upvotes in less than a minute. Are you using alts to validate your own comments?

Einhander1972430d ago (Edited 430d ago )

"No, it's a software based solution that the PS4 Pro had dedicated hardware for"

Right the PS4 Pro had dedicated hardware that the checkerboard runs off.

Nothing offered any type of dedicated hardware based solution before that. DLSS FSR XESS and PSSR all have a software component, but they are not the same as TAA or super sampling.

CrimsonIdol430d ago

Checkerboard rendering is not at all the same thing as DLSS, XeSS, FSR either though. It's very rudimentary by comparison. It does use a single previous frame of temporal data to reconstruct, like some simplified TAA combined with what is essentially interlacing. There is no AI, no heavy processing. There were dedicated hardware upscalers before this, though not as advanced, just like there have been more advanced upscalers since.

People didn't hate on checkerboard just because it was playstation, I'd wager they hated it because it was vastly inferior to native resolution (though for my money I think it was a good compromise) and trying to tie it in as some trailblazing tech that paved the way for DLSS seems dishonest at the very least, as they're completely unrelated. It was a good idea for the time.

Einhander1972430d ago

"Checkerboard rendering is not at all the same thing as DLSS, XeSS, FSR either though"

No one said they were the same, what we're saying is that it's hardware based and that it was the first hardware based upscaling solution, which is correct. It used dedicated hardware, which you agreed with.

And I would agree, that just like we see with PSSR where the same people who talked up DLSS are now trying to say PSSR and AI upscaling are "bad". Just like you are trying to downplay PlayStations accomplishments in upscaling here.

CrimsonIdol430d ago (Edited 430d ago )

Forgive me you seem to be comparing them to checkerboard rendering, when they are completely unrelated. They are NOT hardware based solutions anymore than anything you do on a GPU is a hardware based solution. They are all software that utilises the GPU. You can run FSR on just about anything. And again, checkerboard rendering was NOT the first hardware based upscaler, even if you want to call it that.

PRIMORDUS430d ago

DLSS 4 will be coming soon I believe in 2025, once they show the 5000 series GPU's at CES, should be a huge jump over DLSS 3. I won't be surprised if they also improved frame gen, as well, with even more FPS. Nvidia will be in the lead for a very long time with their tech.

Einhander1972430d ago

It was the first commercially available consumer product to have dedicated hardware to do upscaling, it was before Nvidia's DLSS, AMD's FSR and Intel's XESS.

CrimsonIdol430d ago (Edited 430d ago )

No. It wasn't. The Xbox 360 had a dedicated upscaler completely independent of the GPU that covered just about every output format with 0 hit to performance.

And those other techniques do not use hardware dedicated to upscaling. They use hardware in the GPU that can do upscaling, among other things. It all depends on what the software tells that hardware to do.

Einhander1972430d ago

Ok, we're not talking about image upscalers so a 720p game can display on a 1080p TV which is what the 360 had. You're just trying to confuse the discussion.

PS4 Pro checkerboard was the first hardware based post process upscaler.

CrimsonIdol430d ago

I'm not trying to confuse the discussion but I agree let's not keep splitting hairs about it. I see checkerboard rendering as an interesting and innovative rendering technique, that increased fidelity with some caveats.

What I really have a problem with here is Eonjay seemingly giving credit for DLSS to Sony:
"Sony actually invented hardware based super resolution. It was called Checkerboading and it came out in 2016 before DLSS and it was hated on simply for being part of PlayStation. The inovation came first to consoles."

It's not really true by any metric. But my olive branch is that I think it was a smart idea, and wished we had an option like that for PC at the time as 4K was still pretty unobtainable and I still preferred the checkerboard native-like crispness (I believe Sony indeed had some patent on it so it wasn't replicated on PC). not only did that innovation come first to console in this case, it never left. But it's nothing like what we know of as "super resolution".

ABizzel1430d ago

Most likely they’ll be launching DLSS 4.0 with the RTX 5000 series if they continue the same trend…. That being said what DLSS 3.0 did for the RTX 4000 series would have been revolutionary for gamers if the price of the GPUs weren’t absolutely outrageous to begin with.

With DLSS and Frame-Gen the RTX 4000 series GPUs perform 2 sometimes 3 tiers above their previous gen counterparts excluding natively being faster with hardware alone. That alone would be a huge benefit to any console allowing developers and artist to focus on crafting amazing worlds and experiences using the native hardware, and using software to increase the image resolution and maximize the performance.

Anything additional is the gravy on top. The next step for DLSS is AI generated textures and objects which will give more processing power back to the hardware and reduce in-game pipelines and VRAM utilization, and PlayStation may very well catch up sooner rather than later with such features due to being a closed environment, but achieving near DLSS 3 parity is the first major step.

Shiore2u430d ago (Edited 430d ago )

@Einhander1972 The "first hardware based post process upscaler." was the GeForce FX 5800, which introduced hardware accelerated shaders that enabled postprocessing effects, such as realtime upscaling. Just proof you have no idea what you're talking about. Stop using alts to mislead people, you are making people dumber by doing so.

DustMan429d ago

You can't explain PC to console fan boys. They don't want to believe somebody other than Sony can create something new.

Einhander1972429d ago

This is crazy I am arguing with one person who is so determined to not give PlayStation it's due credit they keep talking about different things and trying to say they are hardware upscaling.

PS4 Pro was the first device to have a dedicated processor to do upscaling.

TAA, super sampling, basic upscalers to allow 720p to be displayed on a 1080p, or NVidias basic display hardware are factually not the same thing.

Again, PS4 Pro was the first commercially available device that had hardware that was specifically designed for one purpose which was upscaling.

CrimsonIdol429d ago (Edited 429d ago )

again, that's simply false. Just stating it again doesn't make it true. You need to shift your goal posts quite a bit further to make that statement true. The 360s scaler literally ticks those boxes, and was a good idea (for instance the PS3 lacked this). And it's also not how checkerboard rendering worked.

+ Show (20) more repliesLast reply 429d ago
sweatyrich430d ago

Immortals of Aveum already has framegen on the PS5

CrimsonIdol430d ago (Edited 430d ago )

*wrong spot*

Neonridr429d ago

except Nvidia will be innovating as well. It's not like they just brushed their hands together and said "we're done". Who knows what Nvidia will be pushing in 2-3 years.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 429d ago
dveio430d ago

Sony aren't quite a stranger to all of that, are they.

I mean ... they build top of the industry TVs and cameras.

I assume PSSR on PS5 Pro is just a "light" version of what they are capable of doing, but at some point they just have to consider the costs of production.

PSSR is a great improvement already.

But I believe the PS6 will kick the ball out of the park.

Aloymetal430d ago

''But I believe the PS6 will kick the ball out of the park.''
Yup, that's exactly what I said not long ago. Things are looking great right now and to think PSSR is in early stages so I can only imagine what they would be able to achieve when they release the PS6.

DarXyde429d ago

To add to this, Sony really doesn't get their due credit. Whatever anyone wants to say, they've got some very capable tech wizards in their ranks.

People say DLSS 3 is better and "wait for DLSS 4". Ok, sure. Agreed. But graphics technology is kind of what Nvidia does. It's their whole thing, and if they weren't on the cutting edge of the R&D, they wouldn't be a multi trillion dollar corporation. AMD dabbles in CPU and GPU tech. No one is surprised to see them lagging behind Nvidia in graphics tech.

But PlayStation...I would say they are unusually gifted with tech synergy. Nothing goes into their boxes without real intent. My favorite example of this is in Decima games utilizing this field-of-vision rendering (similar to foveated rendering in VR). If you don't know what that is, it basically means anything your camera is not facing is rendered at a much lower resolution until you look in that direction (e.g., while playing Horizon, moving the camera means anything off screen is rendered less or not at all). A genius resource saver. Then what did they do? They made the PS5 with this technology in mind, and the super fast SSD really complements this technology well. Great results and it shows Sony is thinking big picture with their hardware optimization. Even now, PSSR takes a load off the GPU and allows Pro to do other things by rendering at a lower resolution and letting the AI do its thing—a natural evolution of checkerboard rendering.

Given that this is their first foray into AI upscaling, the results are excellent. It makes you wonder how they design hardware around accommodating PSSR in PS6. Personally, I think we're getting something very comparable to DLSS4.

429d ago
rlow1429d ago

Interesting conversations, but what I’m concerned about is the actual cost of development which jumps every generation. Which leads to less innovation. How has any of these techniques led to greater innovation and cheaper development costs? Where are all the innovative titles this generation?

We always talk about resolution and bigger worlds. But that same record has been playing since day one. I would instead be more excited for physics innovations or the like. I do think Sony has the right idea with their controllers and interacting in game. But it’s not used enough. A.I. Npc can bring some great change.

I really hope next gen will focus on real jumps that changes the conversation from resolution and upscale. To interface, A.I., and physics.

Hereandthere429d ago

We went from hyping 33 tf's, being a pc killer for 700, to upscaling.

Cockney429d ago

To be fair its an article about upscaling, well it was until you trolled in

40°

ESO's director says doing the same-old yearly patch cycle wasn't 'going to cut it'

"Nothing is off the table right now."

40°

An Update to Our Shared Commitment to Safer Gaming

Discover how Sony Interactive Entertainment, Nintendo, and Microsoft continue to collaborate to improve player safety across our platforms.

Read Full Story >>
sonyinteractive.com
110°

There's an Underrepresented Majority That Wants Entertainment Without Agendas, Says Ex Tripwire CEO

Ex-Tripwire CEO John Gibson shares his 'Entertainment First' vision to capture the agenda-free magic of classics like Star Wars, Zelda, and Metroid.

Read Full Story >>
wccftech.com
Goodguy012d ago

Yes. Just make a good game instead of worrying it should make some kind of stupid social/political differences in the world... we've got enough of that in the real world. Games are places we can escape to and just have fun.

z2g2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

How about you make a game that’s important to you and the people who are interested in that buy it and the ones that don’t like it don’t have to buy it. Just because something bugs some people doesn’t mean there aren’t other people who it doesn’t bug. Someone’s hangups shouldn’t be other people’s problems.

Don’t want a game that features a political or cultural statement or an underrepresented group of people? Don’t buy it.

Not all of us just want vapid, mindless fantasy all the time. Sometimes we want something that represents us or means something. There’s nothing wrong with that. Look how many movies in the world have covered so many types of stories, people or historical controversies to huge successes. Games are no different.

Eonjay2d ago

The plot to remove representation or ideas and content that you dont approve of is an agenda within itself. Its also censorship. People need are trapped in this main- character syndrome where they believe that the world and all of its happens are fashioned for them alone.

crazyCoconuts2d ago

"Don't buy it"
Exactly what people do.
And then big companies are reminded why if you want to make money you may not want to do things like villainize half your market. If you want to preach one side of an argument you're gonna lose people. At least do the Deus Ex/GTA thing and show the warts on both sides so everyone has something to agree with

senorfartcushion2d ago

We’re still waiting on that Splinter Cell remake…

raWfodog2d ago

On the flip side of that, good games can have characters of different ethnic and social backgrounds without thinking that some agendas are trying to be pushed. I've played many, many great games throughout my life with many different characters (male, female, white, people of color, even some animal characters) and loved them all simply for the story and entertainment they provided me while I escaped into those worlds.

senorfartcushion2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

That’s not possible.

Being a child doesn’t remove the political points of OLD GAMES, we were just kids. In fact, older media was decidedly more political than some of the cowardly, childish efforts we have today.

This is precisely why we are still to get that Splinter Cell remake. We can’t have a fun Splinter Cell game with AAA graphics because a few virgins don’t want “politics in their games.”

neutralgamer19922d ago

Keep gaming free of nonsense. Agenda pushing in social media age has gotten worst

senorfartcushion1d 7h ago

Name a game and I’ll tell you what the agenda was

Notellin1d 22h ago

"While our first game is faith-based"

Yeah you guys want to get rid of all the politics and play a nice Southern Baptist game. We get it.

Christopher1d 20h ago

He should follow his own words, then.

*** That changed around two years ago, when he started consulting for Bible X, the studio behind the Christian-based game project Gate Zero. Last month, Gibson, through his recently established publisher Templar Media, acquired the developer.***

Not sure there's anything more political in history than religion.

S2Killinit1d 17h ago

But his statement is also an agenda. Hope people are intelligent enough to know that.

+ Show (5) more repliesLast reply 1d 7h ago
z2g2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

I fail to see how representing actual underrepresented or making them feel included is an “agenda”. This is an extremely self centered selfish viewpoint. Those actual underrepresented people just want to be recognized as valid. The privileged majority who are always represented take that for granted and can’t deal with the fact that “other” types of people or views exist. Inclusion or awareness isn’t an agenda. It’s representing reality and making those “other” people or stories be seen and align with actual reality.

There are literally thousands and thousands of games to choose from, and if you are annoyed that some have cultural or topical relevance, that’s your problem and you don’t have to buy them. Meanwhile other people who want that actually have games that speak to them. So sick of this “my way or the highway” attitude.

And there are plenty of games out there, if that privileged majority have an issue or don’t want a game based on cultural relevance. Pick up a Switch. Most games are g-rated, noncontroversial cartoons with stories fit for tweens. No reality to get mad at.

2d ago Replies(2)
KyRo2d ago

It's always me me me me me with you lot. There's a difference between representation and forcing it for the sake of forcing something to a very very loud but very small minority.

Christopher2d ago

You really are only proving their point with this sort of response to the idea of people feeling included in some games versus the plethora of games without it.

Outside_ofthe_Box2d ago

We need to define what "forcing" is because I've seen people say things like Aloy being female in Horizon is pushing an agenda or catering to a "very very loud but very small minority" before.

dveio2d ago

@z2g

I personally think you've nailed it here.

For decades, wether in film or music, there had been ONE primary target group.

And if you're looking further, even in economy, laws, courts or any other area there had been only one target group.

While others, let's be real, were surpressed.

It's "funny" though - why do we all think personalities like David Bowie, Mick Jagger, Freddy Mercury, etc., have had such a huuuge impact on cultures and society? Because they were 1:1 depicts of the Demon Slayer or the Duke?

No, because they were different. Because we all are different.

The only people time and time again that are complaining, whining and moaning about everything (while highly likely even been a fan of Queen or something) are prejudiced people.

Are people that "But it's never been any different, and I want it to stay that way!".

There's nothing highly hidden here. It's always been the same. After decades, even centuries of rules written by and for the "one primary target group", they are now the loudest that complain & moan.

Inverno2d ago

Y'all could also, ya know, just not buy games you feel have an agenda? This constant bitching coming from all these whiney men every time they see a game that isn't catering to them specifically is tiring. They latch themselves onto these games and throw endless amounts of harassment as if there aren't another thousand games releasing before/around/after. I'm usually outspoken when it comes to forced diversity in games, but the issue here is you're all bigoted as hell and need to learn to be a little less offended. Y'all become the snowflakes you mocked so much lol.

MrDead2d ago

This guy is one of the biggest most delicate snowflakes out there, I'm sure he'll be crying on Tucker Carlson or Fox "News" again soon.

Michiel19891d 21h ago

@christopher cater to and include are two very different things. Played most of the games you mentioned and had no issue with any of em because they just include it. I have no issue with inclusion of that, but if in the next god of war, Kratos would all of a sudden hyperfocus on being a strong independent man or a hypermasculine one, I would give them shit for it as well. It has nothing to do with the inclusion of x or y group, but about the integrity of the game.

@inverno stop putting words in my mouth . It's actually the opposite of what you say, I said there can be no conversation because as soon as you criticize them, a whole angry mob comes at you and tries to cancel you. Thankfully it's become less and less over time and people actually realize now they can voice their opinion without having the fear of losing their job.
You really can't see that a lot of companies are now backpeddalling about the woke bs? They finally realize making your product worse to cater to a group who doesn't buy your product anyway is terrible.

Michiel19892d ago ShowReplies(4)
PitbullMonster1d 16h ago

Who was crying about kingdom come deliverance, Stellar Blade and the first descendant? White Hetero men Or leftards?

Inverno1d 4h ago

Leftards but those games still went on to release and become financially and critically successful. This dood, who was a CEO, went on social media to voice an opinion that at the time was controversial. Just cause you have freedom of speech and expression doesn't mean you hafto always voice your opinions publicly. He had to step down because it was more about the company than just him. Now he's back talking bout "unrepresented majority", as if there aren't different audiences to cater to. Since people from both sides can't seem to escape getting fired for voicing opinions then I guess everyone's got to equally face the consequences of their inability to shut up.

MrBaskerville2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

Star wars, anti agenda? Lol. I don't think Lucas would agree.

Inverno2d ago

One of the most politically charged movies in existence. They can pretend it's all about space wizards with swords but the space nazis are still in the movies and they're still the bad guys. It's ironic as hell.

JEECE2d ago

More evidence that if the agenda feels legitimate within the story's world, people don't even notice that it is an agenda and they don't complain.

Elit3Nick2d ago

This one gave me a chuckle, too.

JEECE2d ago

As ever, this is a misguided expression of the speaker's issue. While of course there are some games (pure puzzle games, etc) that have no agenda, any game with a narrative is conveying some type of message. What people who say they don't like "woke" or "politics in games" actually mean is that they don't like hamfisted, poorly written narratives/characters that are thin veneers for modern political messages that feel out of place in the game's universe. It's why all these people complain about the Veilguard and not Baldur's Gate 3. They both have "woke" characters but in BG3 they feel like they belong in the universe, while in the Veilguard they just feel like generic fantasy skins for modern American 20-somethings.

Show all comments (61)