Didn't say that the Cell was horrible to program maybe for americans considering they don't know math that much as the Japanese do lol cause yeah I don't see Kojima complaining about the Cell some of the programmers complained unlike you shotty your an idiot to even exaggerate on saying that considering not all of them were complaining about the Cell.

Its you Xbox 360 fans that lie saying that the 360 graphics is better considering there isn't proof of that you douche so why don't you prove it when the PS3 graphics is the better one you lier lol you are such a total ultimate lier THAMMER1 PS3 fans them spread lie's look who's talking!

the graphics capability of the PS3 is way more advanced and can combined that of the Cell considering the Cell can do graphics to as well so why would you know when really your an idiot just like the rest of the 360 fans are the 360 graphics are inferior to the one of the PS3 so yeah unless you have proof that the 360 has the ultimate graphics untill now I suggest to you to just keep on lieing to yourself your getting good at it no wonder you can't get any sleep at night.

Its only lazy developers that haven't been able to get results out of PS3. The ones that just want to take an Xbox game and slap it on Playstation without utilising any of the systems strengths. And in case you haven't noticed most the titles fanboys bring up to try and put down PS3 (normally CoD3 and THP8) are exaclty that. Xbox games ported to Playstation. Since when is a port an acurate yardstick to measure what a console is capable of? The good devs, the ones who like to challenge themselves and try to raise the bar are mostly praising PS3. Besides, do we really care if the graphical differences on multiplatform games are minimal. 6 billion people dont have an Xbox. If they're going to get a console they're going to get the one they like. They're not going to be pusuaded by your hate. To be honest all you haters really do is make me resent my Xbox just a little bit. I'm worried I might get lumped in with the whining, crying minority. Fanboys ( and if I'm being a bit harsh on M$, I mean FB of any breed ) are really sucking the fun out of gaming for me. We're supposed to be here talking about how cool everything is in this Golden age of gaming but all we do is complain and bicker, myself included. A rock can be penetrated by surrounding moisture and my spirit is fading of late.

Anyway, no one cares, so I should probably just stop reading the boards and enjoy my PSWii60.

About what games are to you but this is the real life and the rea life isn't what you use to know in the past so "Deal with it" and why are you saying me I'm not the one that is doing this is mostly these nitwitse's fault that they think that everything is so superior on the 360 when clearly the 360 is completely inferior the cpu in the 360 doesn't have halfe graphics and cpu at the sametime like the PS3 is and plus combining that to the RSX is completely way superior.

my god hammer i am from houston, not huston lol, sorry i know we all at one point miss spell,but you are a huge 360fanboy, so you are bias, and the ps3 just hit it's 3month, graphicly it's too early to tell what it can do, the developers have to get to know the system, and programs like these is what they need. so really fanboys shut up.

and have terrible grammar?
Because they're probably between 8 and 15 years old!!!
Grow up and buy a 360 little boys!!!!

and have terrible grammar?
Because they're probably between 8 and 15 years old!!!
Grow up and buy a 360 little boys!!!!

F@#kin double posts!

I by no means am I a prolific poster on the message boards like some of the others on this site, and indeed, I just recently found out about it and have found that I get a lot of up to date information and really good stories to read regarding upcoming games. It is however disheartening to see the amount of hate that is present among fellow gamers.
Not mentioning names but the more "fanatic" XBOX fans, a couple more so than others are always looking for a negative spin to put on anything Sony related. 9 times out of 10 when something negative about the PS3 is hinted at its an XBOX fan who post the first comment, usually one intended to ridicule Sony or the people who own a PS3. Even good news is somehow twisted into something bad, in very creative ways by these people. I thought about it and asked myself why, what would their motivation be to come on this website day after day posting these things about a system they don't even own and I have compiled a preliminary profile of the different types of users you find. This is by no means a complete list or is it relegated to people with 360's, this could pertain to Sony fans too. But here are some of my thoughts on the subject.
Some of these Xbox fanatics are former Sony customers, these people feel burned in some way or another and lost faith in the company, these people are bitter for one reason or another and the only way for them to express their dissatisfaction is not only to stop buying Sony products, but also to bash anything Sony does regardless of whether its good or bad because they feel betrayed. Though irrational, this is excusable because I am sure we have all had times of frustration with a product or company (Buy.come sucks).
The second are the people who are greedy for new technology but have limited resources. They probably did not have the patience to wait for all 3 systems to emerge, got locked into the 360 a year ago and now are having buyers remorse. In an attempt to justify their purchase they hold on to anything negative about the PS3 even weeks after the rumor has been shown to be false. These are also excusable in a way because they are scared, deep down they would like all systems and see potential in the PS3, but pride and their pocket will not allow them to be happy with their choice. Misery loves company I guess.
The last are the saddest of all and fortunately I think the minority. These are the people who had the Xbox and are bitter that a superior machine (the XBOX) got destroyed by a inferior machine (PS2), they are also upset that Microsoft abandoned that platform so quickly. These people NEED Sony to fail because they feel a connection to their respective companies. These people are sad shells of human beings, looking in the PS3 section for any shred of information detracting from the console in any way.
The XBOX 360 is a great machine, but so is the PS3, and both Sony and MS are very capable companies. It is clear that the 360 launch was no less shaky than the PS3, maybe even more shaky (Systems dying and overheating becoming "bricks" in the process, I am sure you remember that. I also recall the 360 launching with only a few games just like the PS3. I also remember the media bashing the system for various reasons just like the PS3.
But if I were one of the 360 fanatics I would be frantic right now. I would be on the PS3 section looking for cheap shots to take right now because say what you will, but the PS3 is right on 360's tail and closing fast. Sony is not some two bit company, they know what they are doing just as MS does, they single handedly dethroned Nintendo and Sega in an industry both companies for all intents and purposes had to themselves for years. Count them out at your own peril but a few months from now the change in tune will be drastic
And the excuse people use to justify bashing Sony? "Well, Sony hyped the system." News flash, what company does not? Ever watch a movie preview? Star Wars Episode one was HORRIBLE, I don't see any of you knocking on George Lucas' door down asking for your $9 back for your lost time in the theater. Its business, sometime you get more sometimes you get less. Sony might have said that the PS3 would be the best things since AIR, but do you blame them? I am sure if you look back far enough you can see that Sony is not the 1st or the last to use marketing for their products, ever watch a Bud commercial? I don't drink beer but not once has a friend of mine opened a bottle of Bud and had a party suddenly start in their house, should I seek legal action against these companies because they HYPED their beer? I think not. You need to grow up people, santa does not exist, peewee herman is a pervert and corporations hype their products, get over it, its life. If you are not happy with that go live in a cave with no TV and you won't be subjected to lies on the TV and on the internet.
I happen to think that the games for the PS3 look fine, some more than others but a baby doesn't walk on the 1st day. This is good news for Sony, MS probably did this too, it just didn't get as much scrutiny because they weren't under the microscope like Sony is right now. Only good things can come out of workshops and conferences such as this.
But I digress, wise people never call a race before the race has started, that's why only fools gamble. Sega abandons systems leaving their customers high and dry, and so does MS, they admitted it themselves, Sony has not ever abandoned a console and I believe they will continue their trend. So looking at things this way, if anyone wants to call themselves fools, you XBOX "Fanatics" should look at yourself and how your company treats you before you try to call anyone who supports Sony a fool, to all you other people who simply enjoy gaming and enjoy your 360, kudos to you, you have a great system on your hands, play a game of Gears for me online and keep gaming. And to all you real gamers on the PS3 side, we know Sony's track record and they haven't let us down yet, we are their consumers and as a business entity doing bad business for them would be bad for business. Good evening.......or morning......

P.S.
Sorry about the length, I don't post often so I guess I make up for it when I do, I hope it made sense to someone.

Thats what I like to hear.What ever game it is, I'll give it a try.It's great to hear that they're not just Porting some crap over to the PS3 like Ubi and Activion.

Sony didn't back their ps3 hype...plain and simple!
Microsoft did with the 360.

Oh,and if you could,be less long winded on your posts, playstation
fan.
It makes it easier on the reader!

Why is it soo that Sony needs too squeeze thing out of their PS3 when it should be so much more powerful ?

In other news, Microsoft helps devs squeeze power out of the off the shelf components of the 360

"One major fact. Alot and I mean alot of people have never evened tried a PS3. They just heard rumor here speculation their a few crappy articles some bogus biased opinions and hopped right on that "I HATE SONY AND PS3 IS DOOMED" bandwagon. Bro just cause you cant afford it or you like 360 better does not mean PS3 sucks. If the system was really that inferior then why must 360 lovers base their entire life on pointing that out. Especially so early in the game. One word for it. FEAR. Fear that big bad PS3 is going to suceed and then damn it someone out their is going to have a better console than you and Microsoft is going to call it quits again and abandon the 360 etc. etc..... Here is how I see it. And Correct me if im wrong.

PS3 and 360 are more powerful than Nintendo Wii. (FACT)

Do you notice how their isn't constant graphics comparisons or article after article slamming how much better the 360 or PS3 is power wise compare to the Wii. No because everyone is comfortable with that knowledge. they know without a doubt.

360 Better than PS3...( pure opinion) why. Cause if that was a fact why would people need to re assure themselves of it everyday. And dont say its the Sony fanboys. I see how aggressive 360 fanboys are they start 8 out of every 10 graphics,Library and Price comparison on this site.

Deep down inside the 360 fanboys aren't even convinced 360 is better. So until your convinced why even try convincing anyone else."

I had to do it again cause I see the same fanboys in here still having to reassure themselves with hate,biased opinions and links to old videos. (SMH)

Is it possible to get enough prople to just not answer "fanboyistic" comments, so as not to feed these people the energy they feed off of. I mean if you don't reply to their fanboy comments maybe they will
ease up or get the hint.

It is usually the insecure person that has the need to make themselves feel better by knocking down someone or something else, most of the mature people here already know this. They will always be around, just ignore them until they calm down, just like raising children....

so many people are deadset that the ps3 will fail, it's been out for a few months, what do you know? So maybe right now it's failing to get the kind of attention that it needs, but does that mean it's over?

All these stupid fanboys, get over it, no one really needs to know your biased opinion, I bet you all feel so special because you think you've made some kind of point, when in reality all you've done is proven just how thick you really are.

360 fanboys are way way more obsessed just look at ur self ...

It is not that at all. I just do not like fanatics. 360 or PS3. It just seems like I'm a 360 fanatic because I tell the truth. Yeah I'm hard on PS3 fan boys. Just read their posts. You know what I'm talking about. The dumb excuses and lies. I just do not like lies and crap. Because if you are telling lies on the web site you’re differently opposing you lies on others.

In the end it dose not matter because I have never turned any one away from the PS3. I actually get to play allot of PS3. I'm just saying why should Sony even bother with the graphics issue when the fans of Play station do not care and will fabricate that is better than the 360.

I have said before that I would get a PS3 once it proves to out perform the 360. That is not because I’m a 360 only gamer it is because **I’m a smart consumer**. I would never pay more for some thing that another company offers a better version of at a lower cost. Hate it or love it that is how it is right now. The version of PS3 I want is $600.00. None of the 3rd party games are out performing the 360 and 1st party games are crushing the PS3 selection into 2008. You guys are the fanatics and fan boys because you’re praying that one day the PS3 will be worth its weight in gold while others are getting a better experience day one. Hate it or love it but it is true. You just take out your frustrations on me while I get to set and take mine out on my 360.

And that was not a statement that is thrown around like people telling lies about friends selling 360’s and crap I would never stoop that low. You just want to shut me up like they shut up every one who tells the truth. So if it means you guys will abuse and report my account to the mods then so be it you still will not stop me from being honest. Peace, Games, and MOB.

I DO NOT WANT THE PS3 TO FAIL. YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN ME POST THAT AND I NEVER WILL. SO DO NOT TRY TO PIN THAT S#!T On ME.

Thanks for trying deep brown. But I do not think you know me Buddy.

people get the wrong idea about gamers on here. Just cause you have Xbox 360 doesn't mean you are a "microsoft" fanatic. I see more "Sony" fanatics on here than Microsoft. Which is understandable I mean "Sony" could not be touched for the last 10 years. We all know both companies have thier faults and usually people are more critical towards "Sony".

I'm willing to bet you most people that do criticize "Sony" and it's strategy surrounding the PS3, most likely owned "PS1" and "PS2." Some feel betrayed after owning the last 2 consoles, while some are just disgusted with Sony's arrogance. The PS1/2 ruled the roost for a while, so it's only fair these gamers are more opinionated this time around because things are not so cheap, besides all the other hoopla going on backstage at "Sony." Microsoft and Xbox 360 is here to stay for the long run and will continue to steal market share. I'm sold on the Xbox and maybe will buy PS3 way down the line. I like Jrpg's/Fighting games and always liked to play them with the PS controller.

Personally I think "Sony" deserves all the criticize for its strategy this time around. Well quite frankly from day 1, they never had one. If you have been on this site since day 1 or was around on here when E3 was taking place, you would understand why Sony has been criticized so much. Besides the stupid "Ps3/Xbox sucks" comments from fanatics..this site is great.

I think this is a good move that will help everyone in the long run because them developers could use that help right now. This processor was not made with gaming in mind. At least I don't think so. Right now the PS3 is just an over-priced atari jag trying to do too much. I'm sure things will eventually change..well whenever that is.

More Sony fanatics? Haha lol buddy look at this place and the 360 section ;-) The 360 fanboys strom this site on a daily basis and spam, flame as much articles they only can. Not so Sony fans, so don't get ridiculous with such statements.
I also highly doubt that most 360 fanboys here owned a PS1/PS2 or even an Xbox. Just look how they act, them boys just learn walking and are new to gaming.

I agree they need to do something the 360's starting to leave the PS3 in the dust. At the same time what makes Sony think devs are finished learning how to get power out of the other console's.

Cant wait to see what the 360 evolves into, J/K peksi... Surely if the PS3 was so powerful it sould have made NBA Home Court better looking with ease with hardly any extra Dev time, effort or work yet it's not sharp, it's bland, and the back ground, well! lets just say i can't make it out on the PS3 version of NBA Home Court.

So there's been a huge debate going on about why the Cell BE was created in the first place, and why Sony got IBM and Toshiba to create a brand new architecture rather than use existing PC technology (Microsoft's strategy). The truth is that current PC technology just isn't cutting it in terms of performance gains. They already hit a max clockspeed of 3.2~4Ghz, and the system of getting multiple cores on the same chip only gave a 30~40% increase in overall performance, not the 100% increase that was expected.

x86 architecture (AMD and Intel) has a lot of performance isses, issues that were countered with a simple increase in clockspeed every few months. But now that they hit that tier long ago, it's obvious that the foundation they have is highly flawed. Even PowerPC architecture suffers from similar issues.

The benefit of Cell is that it was built for optimal performance, and has architecture that's never been seen in traditional x86 and PowerPC CPUs. I don't want to get into the really techy info, but it's really just the starting point. The engineers involved in the Cell project looked at all the problems they found with current CPUs such as heat dissipation, energy consumption, transistor gates, data transfer rates, issues with L2 cache, etc, and seeked to ramify them. And they succeeded in almost every way.

What STI plans to do is continue updating the Cell architecture every 3~4 years rather than come up with a brand new chipset and spending hundreds of millions of dollars yet again. What this means for the future is that people who spent the time figuring out the SPEs, figuring out how to get all the cores to communicate efficiently, and ___, won't have to worry about starting over again. In fact, their code will actually run even faster.

The point of all this is that Sony wants backwards compatibility on a much simpler level. When they made the PS2 they had to include PS1 hardware to make Backwards Compatibility work. With the PS3, they still included PS1 and PS2 hardware on the motherboard. Can you imagine them putting PS1, PS2, AND PS3 hardware on the PS4? The costs would be psychotic. Conversely, this also helps Toshiba and IBM since they only have to invest lots of time and money for a relatively short period of time, and then reap the benefits of that work for potentially two decades.

An objective look at Microsoft's decisions show the problems that they already face and problems that they will have to deal with in the future. Microsoft did NOT want Backwards Compatibility, not because they're somehow lazy or greedy, but because without the inclusion of previous hardware they simply couldn't make it work properly. They started off with an x86 CPU and nVidia GPU (Xbox), moved on to a PowerPC CPU and ATI GPU (Xbox 360), and for their third console they're constructing an entirely new architecture from scratch (not PowerPC or x86 based).

Do NOT expect BC to work well on the next Xbox console unless they include 360 hardware on the motherboard. Sony already forsaw this issue, and since they're a hardware manufacturer they had a bit of an easier time dealing with it.

I read that sony sold over a 100 million ps2's i mean thats a lot when you think of it. if the majority of people changed gaming platforms it wouldnt be that much cus
1 they still buy ps2 games for their console
2 they prefer playstation because they enjoyed their old console
3 those who had the money bought ps3 like me(still waiting for release date 23 march)
and there are many more reasons but some will change only cus of delays and price. talking about over 100 million ps2's sold what developer is going to skip an opportunity and say lets make new games for new consoles, no waay man u must be nuts there are so many people with ps2's so lets make monaaay££££ ;£$$$$$ and we can make more games for ps3 l8r when ps2's start dieing.
when good games are released we will see who will be enjoying regardless of some games being multi-platform. and 1 more thing ive noticed is that 360 fans do their best to argue about their console and want others to bo down and worship their console because they think its mightier when they know their numbers will eventually stable

Yus but future ps3's will not have the ps2 chip on it - they've been lookingto get rid of it since the begining...

Sorry lad - was meant to be a comment for DJ.

they would attempt to run past games on almost perfected emulation. As long as it lowers manufacturing costs.

I don't post here often, but I do come here to read a lot of this site's articles.One thing is clear though we can't really compare Apples to Apples when talking about a company like EA I like ps3 and the 360 but when trying to compare a game that comes from EA is not and equal argument. For the most part the games looks rushed on both systems.(when coming from EA) That's why we see a lot bugs/glitches, because they(EA) tends to rush their games on the market before completely fine-tuning them.

Some of you morons need to STFU and stop talking out your ass's.
I dont deny that the ps3 has potentail but you guys are always coming up with excuses after excuses;-

- "The developers are still learning to program for the cell"

Guess what fools developers are still learning to program for the xbxo 360 also, do you think the quality of the 360 games is going to remain the same until games on the ps3 catches up!!! heck NO!!!

- "The developers are lazy and the ps3 always gets crappy ports"

LOL stop blaming the developers for the ps3 weaker lastgen GPU, if the ps3 was as powerful as sony claims then it doesnt take a genius to make evey multi platform game look and run better on the ps3. But the exact oposite is happening!

I will speak for those who intend on buying a ps3...or have one.

There is no boubt that the 360 has a lot of room to grow as well. Indeed as far as I know games at the moment are single-threaded and once games go multi threaded the 360 will be able to follow suit with its cpu's.

There is, though, the cell. An entirely new type of CPU...in fact the fastest, upto 10 times as fast as a normal pc cpu...this is like the speed of a gpu...since a gpu is ten times as fast as a pc cpu at certain tasks. The Cell is very much like a GPU actually and that's why they originally intended not to have a GPU in the system, but found they couldn't quite get what they wanted out of it.

This does, however, mean that the Cell can do a lot of the work that the GPU would have to do if it was a normal CPU...meaning the GPU can do less work and be more efficient. Thus saying the GPU is less powerful than the 360's is irrelevant as the architecture is so different. In fact comparing the Cell to a PC is irrelevant because they use things so differently. They built the Cell in order to overcome a lot of the limitations of traditional Cpu's, like L2cache etc.

Now it's all so complex and new that devs have hardly scratched the surface of how to USE them effectively. They can certainly use them normally, but that doesn't get the BEST out of them.

The reason why it's so complex is because Cell has gone away from traditional programming. Before it would be the nom to abstract programming from particular systems and so it would be apart from the hardware. However, with the Cell this is the opposite as you have to program to the hardware - you have to program code to the individual SPE's and this cannot be avoided. The best way to do this has not yet been discovered. Whether to program seperately, or to stream through the SPE's both have potential
"The big disadvantage of removing abstractions is it will add complexity for the developer"

WHen you hear people saying the 360 doesn't have as much room to grow, it may well be a partial truth, but only because the ps3's power is so well hidden that its harder to get it out. And hey, they may never get it all out, and that's where the 360 will win. The 360 may well charge ahead and the ps3 could stay lagging behind because its potential will never be found...and when it is found it may be a let down.

As regards ports...look above.

If you'd like to learn more about the cell architecture - and not just for the ps3 (so you needn't be a ps3 fan to be interested, any techies should be interested) then go here http://www.blachford.info/c...
It also lists the cell's limitations so perhaps 360 fanboys can use it as ammo...

i wonder, how its possible for people to go offtopic this far....

"IBM Helps Devs Squeeze PS3 Power"
this is what the headline says right? if some of you dont even read the article but asume that the headline says it all....why cant you be like: o good, that means we are going to see games on the PS3 that really make use of the hardware in the near future......

more the 20 BS posts before me becozz devs get help from ibm....o my god what horror it most be for you gamers .....................

It's hard to stay on topic when so many ppl are voicing opinions even though it is supposed to be a forum rule.
I would like to say I have had a good laugh at the messages typed on this topic (punctuation or lack of is always hard to read but funny).
I am a pre-order ps3 owner! there i have said it out loud....bring it on!!!
I have always owned stations since the first one shook the gaming world....oh the days.....ridge racer was the bomb....don't like it now right enough but i couldn't get enough back then (i'm 30 just incase i get granddad jokes).
I have played the Xbox360 it looked good but that was to be expected cos I have a ps2 (which is on its last legs, only plays proevo6). I know the 360 is on par with the ps3 on graphics at the moment but the ps3 is a baby still. Once the ps3 has been out as long as the 360 we will see how things fair up. 360 will always have more programming experience than ps3 but the potential for a better machine will always be with ps3...it has a bigger brain.
Technology will always get better though and for ppl to say ps3 has a 10 year life span is just Sony hype if a better machine with better specs comes out before then, Sony will soon think about updating their machine.
I know a lot of 360 owners and the need to justify their choice is a mystery to me...they all say what they own then almost straight away feel the need to explain themselves, I couldn't care less..I own a pc a psp, a gba, a gamecube (well its in the house I don't actually own it) and an atari 2600 (in the loft) gaming is my hobby and the future of it excites me, the potential is just sooo big!
Oh ye I almost forgot.....I think IBM are good xgx

The Xbox 360 will be on par with the PS3 for a long time. The cell architecture is built for running a lot of small processes quickly. It's not built for playing games it's better for playing blu-ray movies to be honest. in fact the cell was built because it was very good for use in things such as standalone players, cameras etc. because of it's low nergy use.

" According to IBM the Cell performs 10x faster than existing CPUs on many applications. This may sound ludicrous but GPUs (Graphical Processors Units) already higher sustained performance in many non-graphical applications [GPU10] . The technology in the Cell is similar to that in GPUs so such high performance is certainly well within the realm of possibilities. The big difference is though that Cell is a lot more general purpose so can be usable for a wider variety of tasks. "

As you can read the cell is more general purpose than GPU's, meaning that it's not built for doing the same processes as those of GPU's, it's not built for graphics. If you talk to any developer they will tell you that the CPU(or cell) is far less important than the GPU for what a game looks like. And in the case between the 360 and the ps3 the 360 gpu is better. Though some gpu usage on the ps3 can be allocated to a spe, it still can't make up for it.

Dev kits for all systems are released are roughly the same time, that is not an excuse for a game looking less stellar on one system compared to another. The first Xbox flexed it's graphical muscle from the very first game. And even ports looked better on the 360.

I don't own any system as of right now, I just hate when someone says that the PS3 is omgwtfbbq!1! better than the 360 because of the CELL. Both the ps3 and the 360 will be equally powerful for a long long time.

The graphics war is going to come down to the rsx vs the xenon. And the unified pipelines and the lack of dx10 support is what will really make a difference in what the games will look like.