It's sad how Ps3 gamers have had to stfu for the last 3 years.
They were talkign abotu how the Ps3 was goign to blow the 360 away.
Then they talked about how the 360 was going to be the next dreamcast. Remember those articles? Comparing the DC to the Xbox?
Next it was how the 360 only sold 8 million with no compatition!
Then it was 2007 was the year of the ps3.
Then it was the 360 would die when MGS4 came out
Then it was 2008 is the year of the 360
Then it was MS was desperate because they cut the price of the 360
The it was the 360 was over because of the Ps3 price cut.
Then it was Sonys Fall lineup will crush the 360 Fall lineup!
Now it's 2009 is the year of the PS3!!!!!!!!!!!!

When will you guys just STFU and except 3rd place. Ps3 has is not eating into the lead of the 360. It never will. Infact expect 2009 to open up th elead on the ps3 until they can cut the price of the PS3. The ps3 has tons of great games coming out, enjoy them! Have fun with them. You chose the wrong console to back if you were interested in which console would win or come in 2nd. However, us gamers care about the games. So stop with the spin and BS.

MS reported in early 2007 that it had sold 10 million 360 and at that time ps3 was at 2.6 million.

surprisingly in mid 2007 360 was still at 10 million install base, so MS always ship a lot of unit by the years end and then says they have sold so many unit!

am sure by mid 2009 360 will still be at 28 million just like in 2007!

however i really want to know how they got this 28 million if its true what they said!!

japan not 0.8 million
PAL i doubt its more than 9 million
USA well its around 15 million

so 360 now is at 26 million best case scenario and 2 millions in shops and store houses if not more!

and we still dont know about ps3 numbers but am sure its above 20 million so 360 lead will be something like 4-6 million and thats not 8 million! of course 26 million including the defected unit thats collecting dust in the garage and many people have 2-3 360s!

as for the companies who makes more profit on ps3 than 360 i think thats because of the following

1: many modded 360s everywhere in the world

2: many of the 360s r dead collecting real dust in garages

3: MS always count shipped as sold to make them look like they sold more!

in the end that shows the profit on ps3 is higher than 360 and if i was wrong then 360 should have made more profit for 3rd parties but thats not the case!!

I couldn't have said it better.

Only 8 million..lol..I thought Sony is getting crushed?? The PS3 was able to push 10 million each year!! They are not far behind at all, with a nice price cut and all the AAA title games Sony is going to bring out for the PS3 in 0'9 and 10..I can see them catching up in no time.. Microsoft can't even beat out the Wii and cost the same..haha..Also, out of that 28 million how many of them broke down with the RROD..lmao..

Well if was going to be a race why was MS afraid to start at the same time. Instead the took the cheaters way with a head start.

Well when you release your console 1 year ahead in the U.S. and a full 1 year and 6 months in Europe, and is half the price of the other console, with "the most games." What does one expect?

How many times is the same story going to be approved? This is probably the 10th story about 360 being 8m ahead of PS3. Which isn't even accurate, because that number most likely includes consoles that have failed as well, also it's possible that this number is the amount of "shipped" consoles (not saying it's true, but Sony said a while ago that they won't announce shipped numbers anymore, I don't think MS did the same)..

"Insert random not-so-witty comment instead of a well thought out reply."

See what I did there?

If you have an opinion, offer it. If you have some critical feedback or an argument to counter my opinion, I'm all ears. This place is supposed to be a forum for discussion.

And Kevoncox, you seriously need some help. People who get this passionate over sales-figures are unbalanced. And out of curiosity have you ever owned a PS3 upon which you can base your opinions of the hardware? Or are you just one of the weak-minded corporate puppets who believes that MS/ Sony/ Ninty actually have your best interests at heart and don't just love you for your money?

At the end of the day, this should be a pastime/ hobby that we ENJOY and discuss. Not argue about. It's pretty clear at this point that none of the next-gen contenders are going anywhere, and with the explosive sales of the Wii, it should be evident that anything can happen.

You fellahs can stay here arguing all day (but please don't, discussion is better!). It's my day off and I've got to get to the gym then be back in time for some gaming before the missus gets home.

Peace.

MS "cheated" by releasing a year sooner? By that logic, I guess Sony cheated with the PS2 by releasing a year before the Xbox.

same could be said for the PS2.

Getting a system out before the competition is a plan. They needed to move past the failing xbox and release the 360 early and they did that. It was a pretty successful strategy.

the DC released a year before the PS2...so...

either way...I agree with most of the comments about this topic...28 mil does not addup because if you calculate the 33% it addds up to be 18.7 mil sold. So how many left of that were replacements due to warranties with other companies and defective systems sent directly to MS. And if people don't understand, if you have a defective system and you get the item replaced either by a retail company or MS...that new console is counted as a sale. But the difference is that the company is suppose to keep record of all defective items...so how many did these retail chains actually sale...I doubt any company will give that information...but it would be nice to know...

kevoncox was right.

there are too many kids that argue useless, mute points.
all that matters are the facts.
the 360 is outselling the ps3.

you can talk trash about the 360 all you want. its still beating the ps3(sales, games, etc.)
infact i dont think MS minds the trash talk at all. its funny that Sony Fanboys think they are "hurting" the 360 be spinning their BS and trash talking. they must think they are hurting its "reputation". HAHAHAHAH well i got news for you---the 360 has one of the worst Reputations in the gaming industry---THE RRoD. Sure MS has revised their hardware to fix it, but its a problem that MILLIONS of 360 owners will have to face eventually. AND YOU KNOW WHAT? Its doesn't matter---its still outselling the PS3.

The 360 had a headstart. Sure.

But the PS3 had a great reputation and a foundation for being a gaming industry leader(ps2, ps1).
It has the cell(lol).
And it has BLuray(which was the HD format winner).

What excuse does it have for being behind?

8 million? That's it? Considering how the PS2 smashed the Xbox and Gamecube combined last gen, by about 50 million units...does Microsoft really believe that 8 million with a year's headstart is something to brag about?

That's like Usain Bolt bragging about a race he won with a 3 sec headstart(as if he'd need it, right?)

Now if this lead expands in 2009, ok. Then Sony is in trouble.

12

People like you absolutely terrify me. You have absolutely no idea how business works if you think Microsoft "cheated" by coming out a year early. It's not a race where everyone tries to be fair, and it boggles my mind that anyone would think otherwise.

That's what competition is. Welcome to the real world.

I don't really understand the fascination with sales numbers. Sony is the only ones that should be concerned about their position in the Next Gen War. They have some good looking games on the horizon.

I guess it's fueled by fanboys. But I also don't understand why Sony Fanboys say that the 360 isn't as good as the PS3... the hardware & *especially* the software sales speak for themselves vs. minority fanboy opinion.... IMHO.

Lord Vader, games are made for consoles that sell. The better it sells, the more time developers focus on it. Period. Get it? Nobody who bought a PS3 wants it to end up being a brick while the Wii and 360 get all the games.

12

now see that's the disrespectful BS i'm talking about...MS has plenty of ground to accomplish before they can start yip yappin' out of their sorry mouths about being an interactive leader...the shoddy system doesn't even work properly and MS refers to themselves as an interactive LEADER?! i'll say it again...until MS accomplishes at least ONE of the milestones that Sony and Nintendo have, they better RESPECT the brands that have done some REAL SH!T...the Xbox is an alternative brand...PERIOD.

I had have been happy with the PS1 and PS2. I have faith in Sony and they haven't let me down. No matter who outsells them, the fact of the matter is Sony delivered a great system that's seeing a lot of great games. A lot of potentially great looking games also. Sony got outsold in the US by a good amount since the 360's price cut. Anyhow, let the fanboys rub it in because it still doesn't change the fact that I'll be playing KZ2 this month as well as Uncharted 2, GOW3, GT, Heavy Rain and Fat Princess further down the line.

eh? Yes MS you are strong favourites for 2nd place at the end of the gen now but just concentrate on the games and then everyone will be happy.

ps. I wouldn't talk about sales when nintendo are in the room ;)

Well it doesn't take much to scare you. MS cheated the consumer by launching a faulty product onto the market before it was ready. Their only saving grace is that most people are to blind to see they are being ripped off by poorly manufactured hardware.

E3 2009 is going to be a bloodfest with all this corporate smack talk going on. I can't wait to see who gets pawned this year.

If the 360 is winning by 7 million in the US and 1 million in Europe, and its losing by 2 million in Japan, then where is it making up those other 2 million to retain an 8 million (as opposed to 6 million) total worldwide lead? Or are they completely forgetting about Japan?

NPD shows the 360 is touch over 8 million ahead in NA. If its 1 million ahead in europe and 2 million behind in japan it comes to 7 million. But this analysis doesn't include many smaller markets where the 360 is doing much better such as Mexico and Korea. I think South America also contributes minutely - is the ps3 even released there? I heard it wasn't. 8 million is perfectly feasable to me.

Biggest thing to remember guys is in the title

"says MS" until they say if thats refurbished or replacements or what not it's just spin.

well said..bubbles...

but still M$ numbers just dont add up...

so lemme get this right..

in November they jumped from 21 million to 25 million sold....

now in december they jumped from 25 million to 28 million sold...?

they jumped from 21 -25 million sold between september and november. Its hard to assess sales consumers properly as MS, Sony and Nintendo all give out figures of sold to retailers and not consumers so a huge increase in numbers given by a company could mean they have flooded retailers and not neccessarily sold them to consumers.

8m my butt. More like 6m, and RROD plus returned consoles it's probably 3.5m. Just go make a 720 and leave this gen.

That's some statement. Although don't forget that MS had an entire year of free range sales before the PS3 launched. And how many of those extra 8 million consoles are repeat customers who had to buy a new 360 because of the RROD? How many bought a 2nd, 3rd, 4th or even more? Break it down for me, Microsoft before I believe just a simple display of numbers.

@ Mint Royale

Microsoft says 7 million lead in the North America. If it was 8 million, you'd better believe they'd have SAID so. So, I'll go with 7 million on this one.

Even so I'd still belive that 8 million is probable otherwise sony would have come out and refuted the claim. But they haven't.

LOL I doubt it,more like 6-7 million.

Hardware failures, no blu-ray, live service that costs and many more other so called "issues" with 360. We can't deny it's a success so far.

Sony really has to do miracles and pretty soon too to be able to catch 360. Blu-ray alone is not enough, now that you can get 360 or Wii and blu-ray player with the price of PS3. I know, PS3 has them all, but we have to remember that people who are looking for blu-ray player may already have a console. PS2 is in so many houses and still kicks some serious butt that no reason to buy PS3.

Also game attachment rate with PS3 if far behind 360. That is what really matters atm, especially when world economics affect all the devs currently in business.

360 is STRONG competitor in next gen gaming.

Even MGS4 and LBP together could not save PS3 in last holidays, you think Killzone 2 change things?

PS3 needs a price drop, as simple as that. If it comes then maybe it can compete.

I see a lot of angry people. =)

When the gen started, the gap was at 6 million and now it's at 8 million. That is quite a gap.

Divide 28 million by 3 (33% failure rate). minus answer from 28 million = real number of working 360s out there in the wild.

The the PS3 fans excuse of "the 360 was out a year earler" then how do you explain the "double" life time sales of 13.2 billion 360 vs 6.1 billion for the PS3? Because when the 360 launched, the PS2 was still selling hard, so the 360 had competition and the PS2 was cheaper and had a larger library of cheap games.

@Jason360...lol

so now ur comparing the 360 to the PS2...come on when the 360 launched the PS2 was in it's 5th year and was still outselling the 360 and the original Xbox...

plus when ppl said that the 360 had no competition they meant they had the entire HD gaming market to themselves dude dont try to spin sh!t here..

the PS2 was never launched 1st either....the DC was launched ahead of the PS2 and just the 360 it had a 10 million lead over the PS2...

Look at the bull #1.2 posted.

"Hardware failures, no blu-ray, live service that costs and many more other so called "issues" with 360." And yet people buy this console? Its success for MS, but fail for the consumers. Progress = 0.

because even though there was a one year lead, at one point sony had it cut down to around 5 million ... not it's back up to 8 million meaning sony is losing ground when over the past years it had been gaining ground ....

What sony fans were saying at the start was, give it a couple of years and the PS3 will have overtaken the xbox 360 total sales. That doesn't look like it's going to happen, because if the sales continue the way they are, the 360 lead will be even greater than when the PS3 launched ...

Lump in all of the 360's fails, i.e. RROD, expensive online, no HD-DVD/Blue Ray support etc etc ... it really is strange that it's able to Gain ground against the PS3 as apposed to losing it...

Let me see Microsoft was scared of Sony and release their system 1 year early knowing about the 360 issues..hah.. I feel for 360 owners they have to purchase their system every few months..lol..

The 360 may be economical, but it plays about 80% of the EXACT same games as the "luxury" PS3. Unless most consumers are swayed by the few PS3 exclusives over the few 360 exclusives, it will be hard to justify spending $400 to play games that a $200 can play just as well. As game production costs continue to rise, exclusives are only going to be rarer. Why would a developer want to limit their potential audience to 20 million, when they can go multi-platform and have an audience of 50 million?

the cost of gaming production is lowering...in the begining of each console generation it always is higher than the average of the last generation...since now that most devs have a handle on how much it will cost to produce 1 said game...expect the cost to drop dramaticly...

soxfan, You point is valid if you dont take into consideration the massive amounts of Sony development teams. Sony will continue to deliver exclusives that take advantage of the PS3's technology.

I dont want to say Uncharted was the beginning of the difference between 360 and PS3 graphics (because Ratchet & clank and HS were beautiful) but it was. Now with Killzone coming out in a month, the PS3 is going to widen the gap of graphical capabilities.

So, no... the 360 can not play all the games the PS3 has to offer. You have to pay the extra $200 to be killzoned.

Having the best graphics has never, ever decided the winner in a console war.

The PS2 was outclassed, technically, by both the Gamecube and XBox, but it didn't matter, because that is where developers took their games, and so that's where the gamers went, and Nintendo and Microsoft rightfully got creamed.

Most gamers will follow the games, and could care less which console they run on. Some people will always want TEH BESTZ!!!!, but most just want to have fun. You know, the entire point of gaming in the first place?

Right now, this generation is fairly balanced. Each side has exclusives, but a large number of big-name, GOTY-worthy games are coming out for both the PS3 and the 360. That's a big change from the last generation. The larger the 360 userbase gets, the more likely this is to continue. It's just economics - you want your game to sell, you offer it to the highest number of potential customers.

@ pennywise

mafia 2 already looks better than killzone 2, so what you just said makes no sense

haha

360 man - Get your eyes checked.

The Xbox 360 is like the pay-as-you-go Cell Phone from 7-11. The PS3 is like an iPhone, if the iPhone offered free life-time phone service.

NOBODY agrees with me? Come on, what I'm trying to say is that you get the same basic functionality with the two (making phone calls & playing videogames, respectively), but one costs less in the short run (7-11 phone & 360), with consistent charges that make it eventually cost more (pay-as-you-go service costs way more than a monthly service with an annual contract, if you use your phone daily; Xbox Live costs, PSN is free). The iPhone and PS3 both have more features than their respective competition in the analogy I'm using, but cost more up-front. But, you don't have the add-on fees and the extra charges. With Xbox 360, you're paying less up front, but you're getting a barebones package with fewer features and monthly charges that make it more costly in the long run.

Get it?

Cpt Chaos is this gen over with correct me if I'm wrong but it s just getting started and doesn't end until everyone releases there next console. By average most new systems won't release for another 2-3 yrs but for M$ although I'm thinking sooner for them same with the Wii I see them releasing anther one sooner than later and I think this time they will be adding HD to the bunch and will truly be in the "console war" I see Sony going at least 6 years b4 the PS4 even shows up.

Dznuts "The Xbox is more of an economical gaming choice while PS3 is the luxury version."

Well said but the only problem is that that economical version was a very faulty version (has gotten better) and as soon as Sony can drop the price down to $299 or lower I think the 360 can just call it a day and move on to the next system.

Wow, you are so desperate if u make that comparison.

Sak is right...MS has increased their lead over the PS3 by 2 million. The PS3 will never catch the 360 now. It still has some great games coming out for it though.

Fishy fingers one of the most unbiased people on this site yet he's got the most disgussing name lol

You posted: "MS has increased their lead over the PS3 by 2 million. The PS3 will never catch the 360 now."

Why do you feel that way? Not trying to argue or offend, I'm just curious.

Yes, 2 million is quite a large number but the PS3 has been out just a little over 2 years now and it's been said time and again that it'll have a 8 - 10 year life cycle.

Making up a 2 million deficit isn't really out of the realm of possibility I wouldn't think.

It'll be interesting to see how the equation changes after Sony does another price cut.

@Fishy Fingers
"Or in other words, hypothetically, had all three launched at the same time MS would be behind. Again, I might be getting this wrong"

If all 3 consoles come out at the some time (all at 2006 instead of 2005 release) ....
- maybe the X360 would of come with a HD DVD embedded instead of a DVD
- maybe the X380 would have a 8-core or 4-core processor instead of a 3-core processor.
- maybe the X380 would have a better graphics card
- maybe Sony would not have won the HD DVD - BLU RAY battle ... the war would still be on...
- maybe the PS3 would not have sold as much due to many people buying the PS3 as a blu ray player after the announcement of blu ray winning the format war.
- maybe... maybe... maybe...

A year later the X360 might of been a different console.

There is too much variable and factors(within 1 year) to be hypothetically writing that statement.

since we all know MS rushed and Sony had big problems.

They sold a total of 10.5 million Xbox units by the end of 2006 (year 1).
They sold a total of 17.7 million Xbox units by the end of 2007 (year 2).
They sold a total of 28 million Xbox units by the end of 2008 (year 3).

http://www.microsoft.com/pr...
http://www.xbitlabs.com/new...

PS3 is a bit harder since Sony was using "Shipped to Retail" figures like Microsoft back in the first two quarters of the PS3's life cycle. But here's what we know.

They sold a total of 9.5 million PS3 units by the end of 2007 (year 1).
They sold a total of 20 million PS3 units by the end of 2008 (year 2).

So essentially, Sony's been keeping pace with Microsoft over the past two years. But they do have one major advantage, and that's the price of the console. $199 for a 360 is a Huge undertaking on Microsoft's part, and unless they design a 360 Slim there's no way they can drop the price of the console further. PS3 however is still priced at $399, which gives Sony a lot more legroom in terms of price drops over the next 3 years.

uhm...sony has yet to report their numbers...no one knows where their official numbers stand....but at the end of Q2 2008 they reported that they were around 18mil...their Q3 numbers should be coming soon and they also have one more quater to go...

BTW....Sony shipped to retail is counted as sold to retail...we don't know how many is in their warehouse...

I am not trying to start an argument but all the numbers reported are sold to retail for each company and each company reports them differently...and MS claiming they have an 8mil lead those not mean it is true...Until Sony report its numbers this claim is mute...what if sony comes out and report that they have about 23 mil sold...this makes MS claims false...Sony official numbers should come out some time next week...

That's funny, Captain Tuttle, what I see from Sak's post is that the 360 was at over 10 million at the end of 2006, and the PS3 was at under 2 million. That's MORE than an 8 million lead. 2 years later, and it's just an 8 million lead. Therefore, the BEST you can say is that the PS3 has sold evenly with the 360 since then, and the worst is that the PS3 has indeed sold better than the 360 cumulatively since the end of 2006.

My reasons for thinking Sony can't catch up? If a price cut in November of '07, Blu-Ray winning, MGS 4, Home, LPB, Resistance 2, free online and the 360 RROD fiasco couldn't do it for Sony (and actually have them fall further behind) then I don't know what can. Maybe a $100 price cut coupled with the return of backward compatibility and a severe slowdown of 360 sales MAY do it. The thing about people who think the PS3 will catch the 360 (and I mean before the release of the NextBox)is that they assume that everything is going to go Sony's way and that MS is going to screw up so badly that future sales will collapse. Don't people realize that any increase in sales caused by a price cut by Sony is going to be matched (and maybe beaten) by Microsoft? Microsoft wants to get into your living room and they're going to do it no matter what it costs, especially after the success of the 360. PS2 owners aren't going to save the PS3...those people are buying the Wii. Of course this is all my opinion and I don't have any magic formula or numbers...it's just how I see it (although I think the YoY drop in sales for the PS3 for November and December are pretty disturbing and will spell real trouble for Sony if it becomes a trend...it's only been 2 months though so we'll have to see).

Good questions though...I always like to have a good discussion on N4G...doesn't happen too often anymore though :p

Edit: Sorry for the wall o' text.

But Sony was forced to quit their practice of publishing PS3 shipment figures back in early 2007. They had shipped 4 million consoles, but only 2 million had been sold, which led to shareholders getting really irritated. They now count "Sold to Customer" rather than "Sold to Retail" because of this. I'm still trying to find their fiscal report, which shows how many units were sold each quarter.

I agree that this situation makes it really difficult to judge the install base of 360 vs. PS3, but Sony doesn't seem all too concerned. Their press releases pretty much stick to talking about Playstation, and that's it.

*edit: Emphasis on "pretty much". And they don't do potshots. They're simply doing what everyone has asked them to do for the past two years, which tell us the value of the hardware.

What about when Sony talks about how expensive the 360 is compared to the PS3?

Edit to DJ: Noted my good man. Problem is, those "value comparisons" don't seem to work, no matter how correct they might be.

And Callahan: Good point but the PS3 sales weren't just about the price cut...MGS 4 and Blu-Ray winning had alot to do with those sales. Now the PS3 is no longer the cheapest Blu-Ray player around and KZ2 will give it a bump in sales but I'm not sure how long it will be sustained.
And the price cuts in '07/'08 didn't take place during a recession with a really strong Yen holding Sony back. If the price cuts happen at all I don't think you'll see an increase like last year. It's a totally different situation. The PS3 will always be the most expensive console (the best built one too but average Joe doesn't particularly care...he just wants to play Madden every year).

@ Tuttle:

You do realize that when Sony dropped price in 07, they actually did consistently outsell the 360 until the 360 dropped ITS price again? And even still, the PS3 never dropped to within the price range of the 360. 400 dollars is still more than the cheapest model of the 360 cost at LAUNCH more than 3 years ago. The price drop and games lineup, addition of in-game XMB, etc. were VERY problematic for the 360 and were causing the 360 to start losing ground. The 360's price cut in 2008 was a direct response to the fact that they were losing ground against Sony, and that price drop saved it so they could start outselling the PS3 again. If the PS3 drops price again, it'll be an even stronger benefit for them than their last price cut, and it'll hurt the 360 even more. Mark my words.

wants some peanuts? :)

How can the X-box beat the PS3? It's not even in the same league. Why is it Microsoft fans are so obsessed with console sales? Lack of games perhaps? lol.

Wahhhhhhh! sniff sniff. Stop logging onto your other accounts and agreeing with yourself nasim, thats creepy.

your post = what happens when you have no life, so you spend the day tracking what OTHER PEOPLE WITH NO LIFE(nasim) DO.....sad man.

You remind me of the guy in this video....

At least his console isn't being b!tch slapped, and FYI all he had to do is click the name and go right to his post. It isn't like there is a heck of alot of effort to copy and paste comments when it's just one click away. I know you tried, but much like your PS3 this gen, you failed.

That account is most likely shared between several people that are trying to get a rise out of us. I doubt that someone surfs n4g 24/7, and it's definitely just flamebait.