650°

Control Developer Explains Why Xbox Series S Is a Problem for Devs

One of Remedy Entertainment's devs chimes in on the Xbox Series S, explaining why the low-spec console is a problem for the developers.

Christopher998d ago

Not a very meaty response. Very generic answer, doesn't really explain the whys, only says it's a problem from the outset.

Sciurus_vulgaris998d ago (Edited 998d ago )

His studio makes games for PCs with a wide range of specs. The disparity of hardware power for minimum and recommended performance on PC is [or can] be greater than power difference of Series S vs Series X.

Nitrowolf2998d ago (Edited 998d ago )

There's been plenty of devs from other studios that have address that though, the scaling is not the same as it is on PC as Consoles.

RpgSama998d ago

THE SLIDERS!!!! You have to make them slide!!!!

KyRo998d ago

And if you want it to work on everything, creatively you have have that lowest spec in mind constantly. If we forever continue with this graphics first approach, yes it is a simple case of lowering settings and resolution to get it to run but if we ever get to point of getting advancements in AI and physics like games once used to then just stopped (for the most part), then the lowest spec creates massive hurdles.

There's a growing number of developers talking about the XSS power. I have one alongside the PS5 and whilst it's great for what it is at the price it is, the disparity is growing and we're not even half way through this generation.

OptimusDK998d ago

@Kyro unless you actually use the hardware that is there for you to utilise if you bothered.

Xbox Series supports Machine Learning for games with DirectML, a component of DirectX. DirectML leverages unprecedented hardware performance in a console, benefiting from over 24 TFLOPS of 16-bit float performance and over 97 TOPS (trillion operations per second) of 4-bit integer performance on Xbox Series X. Machine Learning can improve a wide range of areas, such as making NPCs much smarter, providing vastly more lifelike animation, and greatly improving visual quality.

Kaze88998d ago

news flash, it's not the same. It has almost always felt that for pc they just port the game and then test what ever can run that shit. not like playable, but boot the game on 720p 30fps and slap that as minimum spec. Sometimes the pc specs are way above that they should when compared to other games or on what last gen consoles they are running. Let's not forget that last years all pc ports on ANY HARDWARE has been quite shit.

fr0sty998d ago (Edited 998d ago )

Optimus, instead of copy/pasting, try learning what all that means so you can actually formulate an educated opinion next time.

If only these fanboys had a shred of game development experience, they'd realize how much S is holding back not just X, but PS5 on multiplatform games as well.

No multiplatform game can be made on PS5 or X that has levels too big to fit into S' memory, or AI too complex for it to process, physics, ditto... You can't just lower the resolution of AI. You can't just shoehorn an API into it and expect it to make everything better on the lowest spec system. That isn't how making games works. Try it sometime, and you'll see for yourself. I personally started making games in Dreams and then moved on to Unreal Engine 5, and it was a wake up call on exactly what kind of sacrifices you have to make in order to make a game run on anything but the highest spec system. UE5 is free, so is Unity... do yourselves a favor and download it, try to make games, then see how that game runs on a mid-range laptop. Just some sliders to move around, right? lol...

--Onilink--998d ago

@fr0sty

Please tell me you are not telling someone to actually learn what stuff means before commenting and then talking about AI and Physics being memory related as opposed to CPU related tasks (which incidentally is where the Series S has the most negligible downgrade, with just a 0.2Ghz downclock)

Notellin998d ago (Edited 998d ago )

The amount of hourly day laborers in the comments who couldn't make an excel spreadsheet is incredible on this website.

A bunch of idiots debating something they couldn't possibly contribute to in real life is N4G forum participants.

Melankolis998d ago

PC game devs have the right to decide their own minimum requirement, that's the difference...

+ Show (6) more repliesLast reply 998d ago
Eonjay998d ago

The response is good enough if you take it in context of BG3 issues. He is talking about design decisions and how they have to be married with technical limitations.

He is saying that the Xbox Series S should be what games are made around.

Issue here is that PC was where it was developed and it was designed for seamless drop in coop. And they weren't developing these features on a potato 🥔 pc. This also implies that the feature wouldn't exist if it was designed around the S.

So basically because Microsoft wanted to saturate gaming with GP we have a console that will tie us down for the rest of the Gen. Maybe even next gen...

neomahi998d ago

I mean, that pretty much says it all, how can you argue that? I understood what he was saying. It's twisting words to try and justify self-gratification making it sound how you want to hear it to support your own claims, views, or biases. I think this is exactly what he meant

--Onilink--998d ago

GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 970 / AMD Radeon RX 480 (4GB+ of VRAM)
CPU: Intel Core i5-4690 / AMD FX 8350.
RAM: 8GB.

Those are the minimum requirements for BG3 on PC… its a 2014 CPU and GPU, its is basically a potato PC at this point

Eonjay998d ago

@--Onilink--

So the first thing you should notice is that the Series S has less available memory than the minimum requirements call for.

--Onilink--998d ago

Its a 2gb difference if you decide to add up the 2 RAM types on PC (which you shouldn’t because that not how it works)
And even then Windows alone uses about the same 2Gb as the Series S reserves for its OS, with the caveat that on PC you will also be using memory for other background stuff

So no, I wouldn’t really say that the memory situation is that different between the 2 (not really saying the memory situation of the SS is ideal though).

That said, if there is a difference in memory between the 2, its pretty negligible compared the difference in all the other specs where the PC spec is basically for a potato, which is what you said it wasn’t

babadivad998d ago

It find it hilarious how people always find a way to blame GP. 😂😂

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 998d ago
ChasterMies998d ago

That kind of headline would never generate clicks.

anast998d ago

It extra work and they don't like it.

343_Guilty_Spark998d ago

So why was a generic reply with no meat to it approved as an article?

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 998d ago
XiNatsuDragnel998d ago

Xbox series S was a problem from conception imo but we needed a more cohesive response than this.

998d ago Replies(4)
seanpitt23998d ago

Microsoft does everything to slow gaming down there is no initiative, no talent they are pretty hopeless at it, that's why they need to buy studios to bring talent in.

I like Phil Spencer he seems a cool guy but they need different management. Who thought bringing a 4tf machine in late 2020 was a good idea.

Don't think Activision merger will be good for gaming with microsoft as it's boss look at redfall everything they touch turns into a mess.. if starfield fails then it will be a big hole to climb out of.

Jin_Sakai998d ago (Edited 998d ago )

“Xbox series S was a problem from conception imo but we needed a more cohesive response than this.”

Could you imaging how abysmal Xbox Series sales would be if you eliminated Series S from the equation. That’s the reason why Series S exist is to boost sales.

spoonard997d ago

Microsoft knew they needed a cheap console to pad the numbers of what would be their dismal Series X sales. Have you ever noticed that MS only talks about Xbox sales numbers, not individual Series S/X sales?

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 997d ago
rippermcrip998d ago (Edited 998d ago )

This guy isn't even a developer, he's just in PR.

Christopher998d ago

He's done a lot of dev work, regardless of his current position.

rippermcrip998d ago

Care to expound? He has been in journalism and PR most of his life. His LinkedIn mentions zero about being a developer. Am I missing something obvious?

raWfodog998d ago

As the Communication Director at Remedy, surely you can reason that he's very much in 'communication' with the company's developers. Even if he may not personally be involved in developing the games, I'm sure that he's aware of the devs' issues with the Series S.

rippermcrip997d ago

I didn't say that he was wrong or had no knowledge. But the facts here are wrong.

raWfodog997d ago

“ I feel Larian's pain on Series S. Its not about "just optimize at the end" LOL. Naaah. You have to take into account the technical limitations from the beginning of development. Nobody really wants to think of that when you start making your game, when everything is possible”

Which specific part(s) of his comment do you feel are wrong? You’re being really vague in your comments.

rippermcrip997d ago

The article calling him a developer is what is false.

raWfodog997d ago

Professionals tend to use their ‘highest’ job title, even though they may be well-versed in other fields as well.

Here is another article identifying him as a developer as well as communications director. https://www.ign.com/article...

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 997d ago
The Wood997d ago (Edited 997d ago )

ad hominem bended with a dash of hope n cope

darthv72998d ago

How do PC developers do things? Do they start from the bottom and work up or from the top and work down? somewhere along the way they have a minimum and maximum they aspire to. In the PC side there are way more combinations to deal with and yet the games still manage to be scalable throughout. Last gen should have prepared them for what was to come. Having a base model and premium to work towards. This gen looks to be no different, esp if the rumor of a 5 pro is to be believed. that adds another variable to have to work with.

ChasterMies998d ago

PC developers apparently don’t. When was the last AAA game that released on PC and not consoles?

I_am_Batman998d ago (Edited 998d ago )

Scaling up from base-spec is easy. Scaling down can become a headache. At this point the PS5 is de facto the "lead platform" for most multiplatform games. This can make porting to Series S challenging.

On PC you don't have nearly as strict of a certification process. What's accepted on a minimum spec requirement PC would often not be accepted by the console makers. The standards are higher, at least in terms of stability.

Most engines are fairly scalable these days. If Sony is smart they'll make the process easy and keep the requirements low for PS5 Pro optimization. If a dev team simply wants to shift the frame rate cap up and let the dynamic resolution scaling do the rest, they should be allowed to. If they decide to go further and add better ray tracing and fine tune graphical fidelity, they'll have the option to do that as well.

Keeping Devs happy should be the top priority, but Pro console variants are an inherently different situation than the Series S. While there are ways Sony could screw up and make things unnecessarily difficult, it's never gonna be as bad as having to make things work on a much less capable machine.

hollabox997d ago

Thank you! I echoed similar conclusion if the PS5 was the lead platform, XBSS and ultimately XSX will have problems. You see comments about sliders, and PC lowest spec. Well, it depends on the base configuration and just simply turning down resolution and effects. If a game is designed around 7 GBs of ram loaded at all time, not accounting for VRAM. You only have 1 GB of VRAM to work with on XBSS and 7 GBS on XSX. 1 GB of vram, you're going to have to make some serious graphical sacrifices using modern engines. From meshes, effects, textures, and you have to save enough for audio. Ways to get around the base design of 7 GBs of system ram is to add additional loading points, optimize the hell out of streaming, cut animation, objects on screen, and features such as split screen, or even online play. After the awhile, the game would not be what the developers intended.

For the what about PC bros, base spec on PC would require at least 8 GBs of system ram to run given PCs additional background ram processes. About 8 GBs of VRAM at 1440P and probably console/PS5 medium high base settings. After the base look has been established, if you have beefier hardware add higher resolution effects, brute force high FPS and or resolutions. That's about how it typically works.

Show all comments (88)
40°

Talking Aliens: The Video Games With Author Mike Diver

Skewed and Reviewed have posted an interview with Author Mike Diver about his pending book on Aliens video games.

60°

Xbox boss: Memory crisis could impact next-gen hardware pricing

Xbox boss Asha Sharma has discussed how component shortages will impact the company's plans for Project Helix.

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Eonjay39m ago

When does this end? Its killing everyone. Consoles and PC. And for what? AI? The benefits of AI are completely outweighed by the negatives. And the government should have never allowed one company to buy up all the RAM.

Lexreborn217h ago

This kind of proves this is an after thought product, most products like this are in r&d 5 years before they start mass producing. So they typically have the cost of components and things worked out long before assembly starts.

This is an assumption still, but I wouldn’t be surprised if project helix is similar to Scalebound,perfect dark and sod3. They had an idea but no actual execution other than concept stage. Being impacted by the ram shortage likely would also put this device 3-4 years out.

I’m not even sure MS has that endurance with Xbox yet

Fishy Fingers14h ago(Edited 14h ago)

I mean.... what?

We're at a point that Samsung wont even provide their own phone department ram because they can sell it at higher prices to 3rd parties (AI). Its more profitable to sell the ram than make their own devices with it.

You think because R&D starts 5 years ago the 3rd party component manufacturers will honour that price? They'll sell it to whomever is paying the most today, not some gentlemens agreement they made years ago. AI farms will buy more volume at higher prices than any console manufacturer will. It'll be the same for Playstation.

Sitdown10h ago

You don't really know how this works huh?

Profchaos13h ago(Edited 13h ago)

Helix is going to be stupidly expensive

Instead of leaning into smarter upscaling techniques they're brute forcing hardware that will cost them dearly and it remains to be seen if it's genuinely going to provide a meaningful differential

I know in the oc.doace people like to brag about not using frame gen or dlss to get to high on a game but for the majority of players they happily use those technologies without a second thought

That's going to be ps6 vs Helix

Eonjay35m ago

Yeah with FSR 5 they should be able to offer a much cheaper version of Helix.

Eonjay36m ago

While this does seem to be the case, I am encouraged by the statement from Microsoft about wanting to provide affordable options. If this means a Series S style Helix, at least there will be something affordable being offered.

blacktiger13h ago

It's called systematic inflationary. Yes we get it Microsoft, keep raising in the name ofall kinds of stuffs

pwnmaster300012h ago

Honestly if there was thing I learned from this generation is that new consoles arnt day one anymore.
I can wait 1-3 years.

DarXyde11h ago

Another important lesson from this generation: while Nintendo showed us that prices don't necessarily need to ever drop, we've now learned that waiting 1-3 years does carry some risk that prices increase. This generation is just bizarre in all the wrong ways.

LucasRuinedChildhood10h ago(Edited 10h ago)

The factors are largely external. Covid and Russia-Ukraine war causing inflation led to the first price increase in 2022.

Then we get Trump's tariffs increasing hardware prices, AI boom causing a RAM crisis, war on Iran causing a worldwide fuel crisis which impacts the cost of everything.

Gaming doesn't exist in a vacuum. The last few years have been a shitshow and lot of it was definitely avoidable.

Show all comments (22)
60°

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Lionsguard1d 16h ago

To be fair, there are also human made games that release and lack any fun at all either.

jznrpg1d 12h ago

But all of the great games have been made by humans

jwillj2k41d 9h ago

One is by choice, the other is a feature.

PRIMORDUS1d 12h ago

Guild Wars 2 been playing for 14yrs, 1st beta. This is just one company I support, Arenanet and NCSoft, even though I torrent, there are a few PC companies I will buy from. "PlayStation’s Horizon MMO spin-off, Horizon Steel Frontiers." I feel this will be good, NCSoft is a good developer/publisher.

CrimsonWing6918h ago

It’s a tool. Use it elevate things and get it done faster. I’m sorry but not every game made by humans is good. If this can help things, then I fully embrace it.