The PS5 game that was “impossible without SSD” doesn’t need one on PC

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Workshyskiver1047d ago

The Digital Foundry on this one will be very interesting.

ZycoFox1047d ago

Hint: It will perform better than PS5 if you have a decent mid range or more PC.

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fr0sty1047d ago

"By using some of your GPU power, so much that your system must run the game at 720p30, you can compress the data enough and decompress it fast enough to use a HDD... Meanwhile PS5 can do it at full 4K60 with no penalty to the GPU because it has dedicated hardware that does the decompression for it." -fixed

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itsmebryan1046d ago (Edited 1046d ago )

@fr0sty
I think your performance numbers are. I checked DF to make sure.
The PS5 runs this game at:
Quality mode dynamic 4k that drops as low as 1800p @ only 30fps
Performance w/o ray Trace 1800p dynamic and 60fps
Performance with Ray trace 1440p at 60fps.
So where do you get 4k@60 from. Did I miss something?

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itsmebryan1046d ago

@number1
It's going to run and look a lot better on my PC with RT and everything maxed i should be able to get a 60fps. You should see the detail on Spiderman at a solid 60fps. Sony does a great job on their ports.

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343_Guilty_Spark1047d ago

It would have ran fine.

mkis0071047d ago

digital foundry will be the judge of that...and also see Christopher's comment.

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1047d ago

SICKINDIVIDUAL1046d ago

HDD's are slow af ..stfu.

You and whoever wrote this article dumb af.

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Christopher1047d ago (Edited 1047d ago )

"Before you hold this up as the latest proof that the PS5’s SSD was unnecessary, you should also know there’s another technological innovation at work here: Microsoft’s DirectStorage, "

"In the blog post, Nixxes’ port of Rift Apart claimed to be the very first game to implement DirectStorage 1.2, and principal programmer Alex Bartholomeus specifically suggested it’s the reason you can use a traditional hard drive."

So, you know, it wouldn't have.

RaidenBlack1046d ago

Kind of a funny situation, that Series X's lower SSD speed was criticized when it was compared to PS5's ... even though Direct Storage and other features under Xbox's then-new, Velocity Architecture were documented a year before Rift Apart's release.
And now the same Xbox's Direct Storage is facilitating a PS5 game on PC.
https://news.xbox.com/en-us...
(just drawing from past console war comments, which I absolutely hate)

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VariantAEC1044d ago

@RaidenBlack
Is reading comprehension this much of an issue for you?
"For Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart on PC we added adaptive streaming based on live measurement of the available hardware bandwidth. This allows us to tailor the texture streaming strategy for the best possible texture streaming on any configuration. With DirectStorage, the use of a fast NVMe SSD and GPU decompression, this results in very responsive texture streaming even at the highest settings.

DirectStorage is developed to fully utilize the speed of fast PCIe NVMe SSDs, but the technology is also compatible with SATA SSDs and even traditional hard disk drives. This means Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart on PC can use the same technology for loading data, regardless of the storage device in your system." - Alex Bartholomeus

You need a beefy modern GPU that supports internal HW accelerated decompression of files or a fast CPU that can do the same (where this typically took place before modern GPU Decompression) additionally Direct Storage 1.2 isn't magic it can only help mask slow loading of assets by hogging GPU resources or CPU resources if your GPU is too old RTX 20 or older GPU decompression is already shaky. All us people rocking GTX cards (like myself) are probably going to be stuck with CPU decompression no matter what!
On top of that gen 1 RTX cards might not fair to well either since Direct Storage really is RTX gen 2 or later. So to offset that you'll need a top of the line CPU and unfortunately those top of the line CPUs are about over 2 times slower than RTX 30 and 40 series GPUs.

Meanwhile HDDs are only pushing tens of MB/s not hundreds or thousands. Masking seeks is only going to improve loading over waiting to hit a specific trigger to purge massive chunks of RAM and load in new assets including new levels and once again you can only really do that well if you're rocking an RTX gen 2 (2000 series) or 3 (3000 series) GPU as even the best CPUs will likely struggle.

There is a reason the PC trailers omitted any teleporting between stages at all.

The DF analysis will be interesting. Of course my PC is technically compatible so it looks like I'll be picking this up again to see how my older PC handles running a PS5 exclusive.

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Profchaos1047d ago

Unlikely given it's requirement on direct storage API which last gen doesn't have

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KillBill1046d ago

Works for FF16 on PS5. lol

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XxSPIDEYxX1047d ago

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maniacmayhem1047d ago

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1047d ago

mkis0071047d ago

Doesn't need one to run? Well you don't need to have a certified sub to go to the Titanic either...

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Rude-ro1047d ago

The disagrees make this comment even better.

Fact. You do not need the ssd. You do not need modern gpus or cpus..
Will it be as good? No. But it will run.
The gaming media is beyond laughable today.

InUrFoxHole1047d ago

Damn dude! I'm dying 🤣

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mkis0071047d ago

My brain gets lucky every once in a while.

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badz1491047d ago

I guess those guys at The Verge are all running Windows 11 installed on HDD - just to prove that Windows 11 doesn't need SSD.

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SICKINDIVIDUAL1046d ago

Comment of the day.

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DarkZane1047d ago

DirectStorage wasn't a thing back then, so technically, it was only possible on ps5 back then unless you wanted to deal with loading time everytime you entered rift.

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ZycoFox1047d ago

You got a benefit from an SSD for your whole PC for over a decade before consoles even got any, regardless of not having direct storage, which sped up system startup/shutdown, application loading, game loading & level loading.

The next revolution it seems will be in silent (or near silent) solid state cooling like the new Airjet coolers.

Amplitude1047d ago (Edited 1047d ago )

I've had an SSD in my PS4 and then the PS4 Pro for the same amount of time I've had SSDs in the PC.
Sure the base console didn't come with one but you could just throw one in just like on PC. Was 4 or 5 times faster in most cases.

Unless you mean 10 years before the PS3 (I did put one in the PS3 but not much difference lol) in which case I guess you're right? Actually i'm not being rude but im not sure what your point is with even saying this? There's really no connection from this to what the next gaming revolution will be.

But im this far so imo the next revolution is absolutely AI upscaling tech to allow RT and all the UE5 stuff to run at playable framerates no matter how much... relatively small amount of noise the fan needs to make lol
---
Edit: Nevermind i misread that. You're saying the next revolution of SSD tech will move from storage to cooling. Yeah that checks out.
Leaving my comment above though cause it took forever to type 😎

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ZycoFox1046d ago

@Amplitude

If you put an SSD in the PS4 it did load stuff a bit quicker IIRC, I think DF ran some tests on it, it had bottlenecks though so it didn't perform as well as if you had one in a good PC.

As for the cooling comment, yeah the new Airjet coolers (no fan) currently work best for hot running SSD's, but they will be used for basically all aspects of a PC or console in future when they can scale 'em up, there's already talks of using them in other devices like cameras. Nintendo will be missing out and cheaping out if they don't use one or more in their next console.

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itsmebryan1046d ago

@darkZane
Wasn't DirectSorage part of the Xbox series X velocity architecture back in July 14, 2020. That's a year before this game came out.

So, when Sony said it could only run on PS5 it wasn't true.

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Profchaos1047d ago (Edited 1047d ago )

Seems like people will stretch the truth to start some part of witch hunt on the claims of needing the SSD when forgetting that PS4 and pro do not have access to direct storage APIs or half the GPU technologies that a modern PC GPU does.

No RC rift in time would never have ran on last gen. Seems obvious that if it could Sony would of released it to make money off of the install base of 100 million plus PS4 owners instead of the at the time maybe 20 million ps5 players especially when most people couldn't even get a console in 2021

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darthv721047d ago

the use of an SSD just mitigates the need to optimize for a slower spinning hdd but to think that game couldnt run on last gen is just absurd. They could have found a way to make it work, like they did with the previous R&C games on 2 & 3. IG are very good at using the power of lesser hardware to their advantage.

Christopher1047d ago

*** They could have found a way to make it work***

You're right, the thing they said wouldn't work on last-gen consoles could have been removed so the rest of the game could have been played. Kind of like saying if we remove raytracing it will work on a GPU that doesn't support raytracing. Brilliant.

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mandf1047d ago

Sure with loadings screens but they wanted to make a next gen experience

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Profchaos1047d ago

How much would be new to be changed to accommodate the last gen systems and hardware you would have to change so much of the game you would completely loose the games core and identity
You'd need duplicated assets all over the games files and loading corridors through the portals asset quality would take a giant nose dive and may be worse than RC 2016

At a stage you've changed so much about a game it's no longer the same game

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mkis0071047d ago

Sounds like a major increase in dev time too.

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anast1047d ago

There is a lot of things that can be done with a PC that can't be done on a console.

mike32UK1046d ago

It's just a shame AAA exclusives isn't one of them...

anast1046d ago (Edited 1046d ago )

$2.5 k PC can run AAA.

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mike32UK1046d ago

Not saying they can't be run, they just don't have any.

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rob-GP1047d ago

Obviously, there's a hint towards trying to bash Sony in the article - something you expect from The Verge. A standard HDD is only mentioned if you're happy playing the game at 720p and 30fps at very low settings - it'll look like a PS3 game I imagine, with a lot of cut-back lighting, textures, physics, and additional items on screen. As such, running from a mechanical HDD won't be an issue.

Now, if you were to try and play the game at PS5 settings on a regular 5400rpm HDD, I imagine there'll be quite a few extended loading times and stutter due to textures loading-in (I'm sure someone will probably test this on launch).

DirectStorage recommends an NVMe drive and a DX12 GPU, so those PCs are probably already decent enough to run at medium or above settings. I know DS1.2 supports HDDs now, but I can't imagine it'll make a massive difference. Plus, who plays games on a standard HDD if they have a decent GPU? If you're into PC gaming then you own an SSD.

Muadiib1047d ago

I'm no Sony fanboy, but the specs clearly show the only time the game doesn't need an SSD is when it's running the game at 720p30@ low settings, You could probably store a ton in ram at that fidelity, negating the need for an SSD.

Anything higher requires an SSD and running the graphics in high or above will require Direct Storage 1.2. Makes sense to me.

Running at 4K60 with high or above graphics derail is exponentially more demanding than the lowest setting...

rippermcrip1047d ago

If you downgrade the resolution to 2 generations ago....

So I guess it is impossible.

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VariantAEC1044d ago

Indeed. You need an RTX 2000 or 3000 series GPU to leverage GPU decompression to start with or a killer CPU 12 Gen Intel chipset to make CPU decompression fast and its still recommended to play at the lowest settings and resolution if your using a spinning hard disk drive all happening over 2 years after the game originally released on console.

The hyperbole wasn't hyperbole at all! PS5 has a 4K60 no RT mode in this game... a 60FPS RT mode and a 30FPS fidelity mode with RT and better visuals than the performance mode... additionally if you're connected to a 120hz display you have that 4K30FPS RT fidelity mode upgraded to 40FPS without losing anything!
Meanwhile to play the game in a comparable manner on PC you need an RTX 3080 Ti and Intel Core i5-11400 or better with an SSD... that's just to emulate PS5 running this game without any RT at all at 4K60. With RT you need something more powerful still and an SSD plus the recommendation to use DLSS just to maintain 60FPS...

In the end... there's this $500-550 console that eats up less than 200W of electricity versus a behemoth PC that costs $1,900-2,400 and consumes 48-150W more electricity to run the same exact game in a similar way.

I think PS5 still wins.

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CrimsonWing691047d ago

Pretty funny.

Well, next time we won't buy so hard into the f*cking marketing hype for this sh*t.

Knushwood Butt1047d ago

I bought the game day 1, thoroughly enjoyed it, and got all trophies. My son beat it at least twice. Ive bought pretty much every R&C game since the PS3.

I didn't buy it because something said it could only run on PS5.

I also put around 260 hours into Returnal.

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CrimsonWing691047d ago (Edited 1047d ago )

Oh for sure. I’m not saying it’s bad or anything like that, I just remember in an interview them saying the game isn’t possible to play without an SSD.

As someone excited for next-gen, I ate that sh*t up and really it’s just lies. I’m really just calling myself out not to buy into this marketing crap because apparently it’s not true.

But yea, it doesn’t make the game any less fun or good. It’s just when everyone argued it could possibly run on PS4 and everyone pointed out that it couldn’t because it needing the SSD… well, those of us who claimed it can only run on an SSD feel kinda silly now.

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jwillj2k41047d ago

A future technology has made the impossible possible. I guess I’m hindsight you’ll see televisions and internet as hype also.

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shinoff21831046d ago

Who's to say that at the time that it wasn't lol. It's been 2 years or more. Shit changes. Advances etc

CrimsonWing691046d ago

But isn’t this backwards? Like you can use an older drive with a spinning disk to play the game 🤷‍♂️

That’s not forward advancement. In fact, it makes 0 sense at all other than they used it to explain why there’s no PS4 version to shut people up asking why there’s no PS4 version.

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jwillj2k41046d ago

CrimsonWing69

The new technology’s called direct storage. Older hdds cannot do this out of the box.

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VariantAEC1044d ago

@jwillj2k4
It's actually worse than these articles let on... by a lot!
If people are expecting this game to run at 60FPS in 4K with RT and everything without any visual bugs on PCs using an HDD as well as it runs on PS5 using the PS5's internal storage or an NVMe drive... they're going to be disappointed. This game still needs an SSD or NVMe drive to run well and to run fast even if you have an RTX 30 or 40 series GPU and cutting-edge CPU.

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1047d ago

MIDGETonSTILTS171047d ago

I mean, it might not be needed for the Minimum settings…. But on ps5 it *might* be the best looking game ever. I’d bet you need the SSD for the full buffet of visual feasts.

I guess we’ll see what the SSD allows in a few weeks…

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VariantAEC1044d ago

12 days as of your post and 10 as of mine... less than 2 weeks.

MIDGETonSTILTS171047d ago

The ps5 SSD loads ~9gbs/second of compressed data… I’d be very surprised to hear that software is able to close that big of a gap with hardware without compromises.

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VariantAEC1044d ago

Exactly if Direct Storage 1.2 were this kind of magic bullet MS wouldn't shut up about it...

Seeing as how a deleted blog post is the only thing we've yet to hear about DS 1.2, it's probably not THAT great?

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Binarycode1047d ago

Comical.

Somehow some of you are knocking the PS5's Rift Apart.

Runs flawless in a variety of modes, all with high quality visuals. Ray Tracing. Near Instant loading.

and you're comparing it with min specs, hdd but recommended ssd. 720p 30fps,lol.

The swtich can run all the games, but blur popin editioin with muddy textures and barely 30fps.

I think what's more telling is the specs you need to match and surpass PS5's Raytracing mode.

6800xt - 3070 and those modes are using DLSS.

PS5 is an amazing machine.

Good-Smurf1047d ago

3060Ti and above to surpass PS5.
Not to mention PC version are almost twice the size of PS5 version.

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Binarycode1046d ago

They are quite comparable tbh.

PS5 has higher texture rate and high g-pixel rate.

Remember PS5 version is Native 4k 30fps. With higher modes using More dynamic methods.

Also the PC version is Larger because it's not compressed like the PS5 version.

Most games that are made for PS5 are smaller then other consoles and PC. Because of it's complex compression system.

Those are PS5 VS SERIES X File sizes same game.

Control: 25.7 vs 43.6

Hitman 3: 61.9 vs 77.8

Subnautica: 3.8 vs 8.3

Crash 4: 20.0 vs 28.0

Tony Hawk: 23.3 vs 31.9

Marvel’s Avengers: 74.1 vs 116.6

AC Valhalla: 41.8 vs 72.5

Watch Dogs Legion: 50.6 vs 61.1

Immortals Fenyx Rising: 22.3 vs 32.9

Borderlands 3: 51.1 vs 63.8

Dirt 5: 50.9 vs 63.3

Mortal Shell: 4.6 vs 8.6

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BehindTheRows1047d ago (Edited 1047d ago )

Cool. Let's see how good it runs on spinning disc HDDs, TheVerge. You sound ridiculous.

In fact, never mind that. Let's see how good it will run without DirectStorage. Hint: on PS5, that decompression technique was state-of-the-art. DirectStorage is the PC attempt at it.

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shinoff21831047d ago

2 years 2 and a half years after it released. That's great.

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VariantAEC1044d ago

2 years and 1 month. Apparently R&C:RA launched June 11th 2021 for PS5.

Petebloodyonion1047d ago

At one point ppl need to understand that PR persons are there to sell you products or justify an action.
Shame on you if you fall for obvious lies like:
4k/60 frame will be the norm!
our game can only be done on X system!
We believe in generation!
etc...

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Stanjara1047d ago

Even if Sony lied and created a narrative to push PS5 console, I'm glad that consoles finally pushed SSD.
HDDs are terrible.

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gold_drake1047d ago (Edited 1047d ago )

funny how the headline is so negative when the text right below, amd the article itself, explains it in plain sight lol.

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XBManiac1047d ago (Edited 1047d ago )

It is magic... you can play it at 720p ~30 fps without an SSD... you only need a NVMe unit with PCIe direct access to play it at 1080p or more... The question is... why would anyone want play it in poor conditions, waiting for level loading, low quality textures, low resolution, no FX...?

chicken_in_the_corn1047d ago

That was disproven years ago

https://www.videogameschron...

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1nsomniac1046d ago

Why we’re still surprised by these tactics are beyond me at this point. It’s the same every time!

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Flewid6381046d ago

However you slice & dice it, I'm happy to have a Gen4 nvme in both my PC and PS5.

z2g1046d ago (Edited 1046d ago )

Lol the irony that an api technology that MS employed on the series x is what makes it possible to play ratchet and clank on pc when everyone was saying the ps5 ssd was a differentiator. The series x ssd is in fact slower but these APIs all work together (known as velocity architecture) to get comparable performance while leaving you with a bigger system drive for the same cost.

PhillyDonJawn1046d ago

Hate to say I told you so

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VariantAEC1044d ago

HDDs move dozens of MB/s.
PS5 can move 5GB/s without any compression.
To utilize GPU depression with Direct Storage 1.2 you need a really modern RTX 30 or 40 series GPU lest you fallback to far slower CPU decompression and all of that only to mask HDD seek times which of course are not actually disappearing at all. Probably why the games minimum specs include HDD running the.game at 720p30 with "Very Low" (presumably the lowest) game settings.

I'd say after 2 years and several major PC GPU and CPU gens later plus this "magical" API later... and HDDs still will not run this game the same way PS5 does.

Hate to say I told you so.