Of course, why would they buy the game that they can get on gp.... That's why triple A games can never be day one in any service, much less on something with a low number of subcribers like gp.

That's why so many big publishers like take two told that kind strategy doesn't work. They will lose billions. Never ever will services achieve the number of a game that cost 70 buck that sells 5, 10, 15 million copies... If they launch 2 or 3 games like those each year...

This means the moment Cod is on gp, it's over.... From the biggest seller to missing in action.

No shit…. Who had the audacity to claim otherwise?

Netflix cannibalized DVD sales.

I just hope Sony never follows suit with games on the service day one. I want the gaming industry to be sustainable. They can add the games to the service after a period of time, but first, just sell them on their own as it's always been.

Pikachuface.meme

ooooooo bitch

i mean, thats what we've been all saying right.

its highly logical, always has been.

Microsoft also submitted that its internal analysis shows a []% decline in
base game sales twelve months following their addition on Game Pass.

Not much can be gleaned from that as figure redacted, still goes against what MSoft originally said/alluded to.

Well of course, GP is a great value and a great way of saving money as opposed to just buying new games. Sure saves me a lot of money.

Of course, it must be cannibalizing game sales on the Xbox console, the why MS is giving money upfront to put the game on Game Pass.
The same way that Digital sales are cannibalizing physical sales. The question that is not answered is: do companies make less or more money in the end?
For example Would Hi-Fi Rush have sold more copies on Steam if it wasn't available on Game Pass?

Also just wondering what's the source of this news because right now it's an unknown document that can't be seen and the curator of Foundry said...

No sh!t, everyone not inhaling MSs farts already knew this. Money doesnt magically propagate out of nowhere, and throwing all of your launch sales to the mercy of a $1-$15 monthly sub that has to be split 100 ways for each game on the service doesn't add up to "sustainable".

It’s like watching a wildfire….mesmerising.

I wouldn't have a problem if Microsoft's AAA titles didn't come out immediately in gamepass but a few months later, something similar to what HBO does so as not to affect sales so much

So subscriptions are slowing physical games sales...but is MS loosing money with subscriptions?

Also, as with recent events, people seem to be upset or complaining about games costing $70 individually, so why would they be against a sub service that has a variety and library of games for cheap monthly cost?

No sh!t...

I've noticed 3rd party games that launch on Gamepass get severely devalued too. The likes of Back 4 Blood, Rainbow 6 Extraction and A Plague tale going for €20, €10 and even €5 in no time at all. Surely publishers won't be on board with this forever.

Where are you now orchard?

Again. These guys are not trying to improve the industry. They are not interested in innovation NOR experiences. Lying about its effect on themselves and lying about its effect on the industry. Games like COD would gain nothing by being on gamespass. It could only lose. All that revenue from actual sales to be recycled through the company and reinvested, out the window. This isn’t me saying this, it’s finally Microsoft. Buying Zenimax and removing a revenue stream from ElderScrolls or Fallout in addition to putting it on gamespass doesn’t help, it hurts. So what’s the point in all this?
Make gamespass enticing enough that they get enough subscribers to offset losses. Don’t know what astronomical number that may be, but here’s what I think is going to happen.

Microsoft will break gamespass into tiers. Yessir, they hitting us with the modified drug dealer tactic. Streaming turns into a game of how can we force the customer to give us more money. Take Netflix. They increased prices for a while then they went to tiers on the number of simultaneous streams you could have. Want the kids to be able to watch their shows too? Pay more. Well, with all the streaming competition people still didn’t mind keeping one stream at a time. One person is in Hulu, one person on Netflix, one person on Funimation. What did Netflix do then? Scrapped that idea and locked resolutions behind a paywall. That’s right. 720p has a price, 1080p has a price, and 4K has a price. Have a TV you’re trying to see in all its glory? Pay that top tier price. Every tv these days are 4K. different qualities, but 4K. I think it’s scummy as hell and canceled Netflix.
Microsoft is going to make gamespass a tier system. Those Microsoft titles may stay in the base level along with indies and old stuff just like it is today. If they are going to break it into a Zenimax add on and Activision add on to the existing gamespass payment OR to not all games going on gamespass. ElderScrolls might be pay to play but Starfield will be on gamespass. Microsoft said “Microsoft games studios games will be on gamespass”. Those aren’t technically in that category. Give it till the Activision deal closes, assuming it goes through, +1 or 2 year/s. They will have to make it more profitable.

Well, no shit.

But uncle Phil said people are actually buying more games thanks to Gamepass!

Decades ago, the PC was predicted to die for gaming. That never happened. I bet Microsoft is simply trying to kill the console gaming industry for good, so PCs can rule for good.

This is what happens when you get too greedy, i honestly think MS trying to acquire Acti will break Xbox it was simply too much, this will bite MS in the ass so much

Duh...? It really hurts 3rd parties more than anyone. Everytime I think about getting a third party game, I wonder if it'll be on gamepass eventually. I haven't brought a single game for my Series X.

Still buy games on my Switch and first party games or exclusives on my PS5 though.

Who believed otherwise?

I would laugh at those saying they would try something on GamePass and then buy it later if they liked it. They spoke as if that was the norm.

Holy sh 80 percent drop. That's insane man.

" these statements are in stark contrast to what Phil Spencer said in the past, with the leader of the Xbox division who has often highlighted how Xbox Game Pass had never been a brake on the sales of video games according to the traditional model. The curators of Digital Foundry had instead revealed"

It has been officially confirmed by Xbox that Phil is a total liar. Nothing he says can be taken seriously.

"The curators of Digital Foundry had instead revealed – while not providing particularly detailed information on the matter – that the standard sales of Xbox games had dropped by 80% since Microsoft proposed the gaming on demand model"

This confirms what everyone knew from a long time and this time there is no fanboy denying it or debating it... Gamepass is eating Xbox sales as we suspected and is not sustainable. The only reason Xbox is alive is because of Windows money and because of Microsoft big ego

Remember all the media and a certain group saying... Why Sony and Nintendo SHOULD follow Xbox on creating gamepass? Remember?

This is why they didn't ... Officially stated by Xbox, it is not sustainable and is eating sales. This is why Sony and Nintendo are not dumb enough to do it.

This is true. My brother in law has Xbox and says he doesn't buy games anymore now that be has GamePass.

This was pretty evident from the get go. There is a lot of feel good talk from Xbox when reality is, in fact, much different. Again, say one thing and do another.

This whole thing is fascinating to watch and we are getting to peer through some cracks in the process, on both sides. Honestly, it might end up hurting Xbox more than helping in the long run.

I have Game Pass because that is how I got a Series X through that All Access thing. I feel like I under-utilize it as I generally just want to play games that I own and am invested in. I don't think I will be resubscribing but I still have over a year's worth of service so maybe I'll change my mind. I do admit that I basically don't buy games on my XBox because of it. I really only buy games on the PS5, and I'm not interested in their PS+ advanced tiers.

You here Orchard?

It's the reason why Square-Enix isn't porting FF7R, FF16 and Forspoken to Xbox, not because Sony paid them not to do it. Sony paid for 6 months exclusivity, if it's not releasing beyond that, it's because Square-Enix doesn't care about Xbox, porting their games would make them no money since xbox fanboys are now too cheap to buy games, they wait for it to be on Gamepass. The amount Microsoft offers them to put it on gamepass is likely laughable and give them less money then they would get from sales, which they wouldn't get much from.

Let's face it, even without gamepass, sales on Xbox would be too low for most developers and publishers to bother with it.

The end is near. It's only a matter of time before they jack up the price of GP. They're just waiting to acquire more devs and publishers then boom!

"You wanna play your favorite games? $15 a month subscription thanks"

Wasn't it obvious though?
I have not bought an Xbox-exclusive game since Xbox game pass released. But instead, Xbox has extracted more money out of me through game pass.

Let's say on average I buy 1 exclusive Xbox game in a year. That £55 but with gamepass I am subscribing for £120 a year. And I won't be unsubscribing because the value of the games I have is so great.
But the question is did me getting that game on gamepass mean that studio didn't get payed from me. Well, Obviously but MS gave them a lump sum of money for that game to be on Gamepass. Depending on how big that title is they will get given however that title would have received a price.

That is just a rough estimate but I assume MS pays the following

Small Indie game: £1-5 Million- Unpacking
Medium Indie game: £10-20 Million- High On life
AA games: £20-50 Million- A Plague Tale
AAA games: £50-100 Million- Assassins Creed/Shadow of war

Now to fund the studios you simply need to look at how much sub there is for gamepass and then calculate the cost.
Now that £120 * 30 Million subscribers = £3.6 Billion a year from gamepass
I would say a third of that goes towards funding their studios for exclusive or to publishers for their games to be on Gamepass.

I believe that their long-term target is to reach at least 100 Million subscribers at some point. Which in no doubt they will.
£120* 100million= £12 billion a year

Developers benefited from being on the game pass as it allowed them to be paid for the games to be added. But most importantly it allowed them to be exposed to millions of gamers using the service.

For example:
I played The blaire witch project game by Bloober studios Proceed to play the other games made by them. When The Medium game out I downloaded it day one because I knew I was going to get a quality horror game.
It exposed me to a developer whose game I would not have even thought of playing because I wouldn't have bought it.

So when It comes to Xbox Canibalising game sales on Xbox then yes but the benefits outweigh the negatives. As developers feel that they can safely recoup the cost of making the game + as well as make a profit. The biggest benefit is seeing player actually engaging with their games. This leads studios to gain a big followings which will lead to a sale down the line.

Well, it was an open secret. How are quality games supposed to be incentivized in such a climate though…

No duh. It does what we all thought it would. Problem is too many people don’t care as long as it’s cheap. The industry will pay a steep price in creative budgets and quality of games long term.

I fuckin knew it!

I purchased an Xbox One X in April 2019 for like $300+tax (plus I got $125 store credit at Meijer). I paid $100 for 3 years of gold and did the conversion for a dollar to get UGP for 3 years. When new systems came out, I was able to trade that One X basically straight up for a Series S. I've continued to use their GP promotions to get free months. My current sub runs through September 2023. I've literally bought 2 things (Minecraft Dungeons DLC and Doom Eternal DLC) straight up in 4 years.

So I got 53 months of UGP for $101 so far.

As soon as they stop offering these promos to get UGP for basically nothing, and I have to start paying their full price... I'll be done with them. It isn't worth $15 a month. If the deal goes through and all AB games join game pass, that may be worth it... but most certainly their will be a price increase.

Im old and stuck in my ways, i like to just buy the games i want, i dont like to constantly pay, i also see Xbox starting to do some little tricks of which im sure will get worse, games outside of gamepass ive noticed seem to be very expensive, Redfall atm is $160 last i looked, even for the super snazzi version i think thats expensive...they are also starting to put some games only available with gamepass. I dont like these practices.

This should be a surprise to no one, but it's not like developers who put their games in GP don't get reimbursed by other means.

Orchard has turned up this gonna be entertaining if that's the right description

You’d be stupid to have thought otherwise, honestly.

So they’re finally admitting that Jim was right. The lies are all coming out. This deal is dead to rights.

DLC is all I buy in that system and I'm sure it is that way for many. Xbox Studio titles will start cutting even more meat off the main game to sell as DLC to make up the difference.

I have so many questions over this document... Look we know putting games on Gamepass would decrease sales ( How could it not) and companies were getting compensated in other ways.

The problem with this document is we don't know the whole context of the document since only an "Excerpt of the document was used" and how old this document is. Is this document and information still even relevant?

Orchard's got a lot of PR work to do.

Lol....obviously. Microsoft should be more transparent. How many people actually bught Halo Infinite full price?

We know that 11 million people paid for God of War and 20 million paid for Pokemon Violet.

My head just hit the desk...

Anyone with a brain knew this. Phil coming out and saying GP leads to more sales was questionable at best.

So I wonder if this applies to "day one" GP games or GP games in general, as let's be honest if it's in general then those games will have made the bulk of their sales anyway.

It stinks of lies. Can't support fakeness.

Everybody should know that subscription is was to hell.. its not movies or music industry, developer making money only from sells, we dont have concerts or cinemas…

That Phil guy sure turned things around...

It may contribute to lower sales of certain games. That's should be obvious to everyone.
But what is not mentioned is that GP also attracts people to games who normally wouldn't buy those games to begin with without being able to try it out first at a lower entry point. And it also lowers the threshold for people to spend money on DLC if they already got cheaper access to the game.

If anyone thinks that Microsoft (a trillion dollar company) who's very experienced with subscription services for a long time already hasn't done the math on this in advance, they're just fooling themselves.

Does microsoft even bring anything to the table anymore? Other than different colored controllers ofcourse.

Makes sense. When the new Forza is out most simply won't buy it they will play it with Thier current subscription that's all. The price of gamepads if you stay a year is same as if an Xbox user bought 3 full price games per year

In other news, water is wet.

This is the plan. Why sell a gane once for $70 when you can charge $180/year for each user for life? So what if the rest of the games industry goes bankrupt. Competition means lower priced and lower prices means less profit.

MS business model cannibalizes games sales leading to less quality in games, and MS business decisions lead to MS cannibalizing the industry leading to less games overall for everyone. Wonderful force in the industry.

Breaking news: releasing your titles day 1 on gamepass may cut into your game sales.

😂woooooow