Do these devs know how to make games that scale or do they only target one speed of cpu and gpu? 99% of devs make their games capable of playing on a wide variety of hardware. Intel, AMD and Nvidia are standards now. I guess even that is too much.

Hell I remember the days of Motorola, Cyrix, S3, 3dfx, PowerVR, Matrox... it was an even wider field of compatibility that has been simplified today.

Not cool. There are too many people who bought the S as a budget priced next-gen machine with the idea that they can get the same games as X, especially with Game Pass. As they mentioned, in the PC world, games are built to accommodate a widely varying degree of power/performance requirements. Not only that, but some games get a Switch release, whose power can’t match the S.

I've been arguing this on Youtube for years and the usual crowd come for me with the same ridiculous talking points from Dealer. They're not taking full advantage of the Xbox, there's no mesh shaders, FSR, sampler feedback, VRS, RT, memory multiplier this, and that. Well if developer use the same techniques on the XSX then the gap is just the same. If they don't use the techniques on XSX then they're not taking advantage of XSX so the XBSS does in fact hold back the XSX. VSR has been in use for years in software and hardware, reduces picture quality. SFS being a memory multiplier will be bandwidth limited to the read speeds of the drive which I think is only 3.5 GBPS. That's barely more than the PS2, but small 256 kb textures should be aplenty. Mesh Shader are basically advance form of hidden surface removal combined with displacement mapping. Could be a game changer but it's been out for 4 plus years. Either it's not as great as they hope, or it's difficult to implement. FSR is not great, it has artifacts even on FSR 2.0. FSR 2.0 is better, but I wouldn't trade 4K for FSR 1/2 if I can help it. RT has it's own issues but the main problem is speed either dropping the resolution too slow, or cutting the FPS in half.

Here is an easy solution: Make your game exclusively for PS5 and PC. Just don't bother with Xbox in this case, with their install base being the lowest, it's actually the platform you can ignore.

I'm curious how much of an issue this really is, considering there are options to down scale games on PC to run at many different configs.
Look at Nintendo they got things like BOTW running on their console at great performance.

I've not played many games by Bossa Studios, but if they are an indie developer, (not saying all are like this), but not many indie teams optimise their games well. Look at things like Ark when it released.

Now looking at the reviews on Gotham knights and it's subpar frame rates, there is no wonder why they are complaining over the Series S, that their subpar optimised game isn't holding up. If the Xbox Series S is holding back the frame rate for Xbox, why is the Ps5 also 30fps?

Developers complaining should just make the game for the series S and have the series X version be the enhanced version. Because there is no way Microsoft will allow Series S refusal.
You can't say something will play all the games then to change that and make them buy a new machine.
That's a class action lawsuit ready to happen.

Meanwhile, on PlayStation, every game runs just as great on the $400 PS5 digital as the $500 PS5 with the disk drive. This is a simpler solution for gamers and developers.

I knew series S was going to cause trouble for them. Think about it, they not only have last gen to worry about but also “current gen” series S thats really a different console.

Been saying it since launch. My Xbox One X gets better specs out of games so the series S felt pointless, especially for a “next-gen” system

As I said since the beginning. Microsoft's strategy is to hold back gaming and force others to their terms.

Devs are forced to make games compatible to the last gen powered series s console.

Yes please...

The developer of I am fish and I am bread are talking about dropping the series s requirement?? Lol

Ha! Imagine how low their sales would be if they only released the SX.

This combined with all the other stuff coming out in that Activision buyout situation is making Microsoft look very bad.

Worse, when Series X Pro (PS5 Pro) inevitably come out, guess what? They’ll be hobbled by Series S too.

1) Dev of Warner Brother goes on a rampage about how Serie S is holding the generation down yet can't provide a 60 frames version of Gotham knight for a game originally planned for old-gen hardware. So yeah it's the fault of series S (go figure)

2) Lots of dev: Serie S is holding us down but hey let's make a PC/Xbox1/Ps4 version of our game.

3) I could point out that 90% of indie devs also publish their game for the Switch.

The studios want to drop the S.
The publisher is like: we need this also on PS4 and Switch.
😐

This is being talk for some time. No matter what some say here. The series s is not next Gen. It's being called the potato gpu... It got problems running games at 1080p at 60, the lack of ram and bandwidth it's also a huge problem. The series s is holding back next gaming. There no spin here. There are more news about this, but they won't be approved. In past weeks more and more studio are talking about this. The series s is a gen behind the series x.

But Microsoft was desperate to increase sales and made something that isn't even more powerful then the upgrade one x...

i don't really get this at all. its def more work to have to optimize for another platform but to me and most of my developer friends, whats holding games back is ps4 and xbox one. the new consoles all have very similar architecture based on things like RDNA 2 etc. The game engines are scalable and dynamc. they have to be to also support PC. You aren't re-building the entire ps5 and series X game to run on Series S - you are just scaling the parameters - just like PC does. PC games have to account for a wide range of capabilities and the new consoles basically share a very similar architecture.

Gen 8 consoles however are different comparatively. They run on basically gloriffied mobile CPUs and the GPU APIs are far more limited both in APIs available and capability of existing APIs. So when a studio makes a multi-gen game, they basically have to make it for last gen and then use the extra horse power of the new consoles to do things like kick up framerates and or resolutions or maybe some shadows or something - but a lot of the new features/systems/abilities of the new consoles are simply going to waste and the machines aren't being used to their full potential to push graphics and performance. This is simply brute forcing on the new systems rather than using them the way they were designed to be used - with more power but also more efficiency that isn't possible on last gen.

The series S does not fall into these problems of last gen consoles. it has all the same APIs, architecture and bus performance etc as the Series X. The difference is the GPU just can't output the number of pixels that ps5 and X can - but its still the same AMD gpu. It just has less CUs to save on cost. So you fix that by lowering the resoultion, reducing draw distance, lowering shadow quality or even the framerate so that the GPU doesn't have to draw as many pixels at a given rate. Its no different than developing for say ps4 and ps4 pro. its not like developing for series X and then trying to get it to run on an xbox one.

This ultimately comes down to that studio just not having the manpower to optimize for so many platforms... my advice to them: Ditch gen 8 support and focus on ps5, Series S|X. Problem largely solved. If you're a studio that can't optimize for 3 platforms, then you aren't ready to be a major player, and platforms shouldn't have to bend to your shortcomings.

I think they may will drop the Xbox Series S

Kill it.

This is getting old. I have a Series X and a PS5 so I am covered, but, damn, why would MS do that(rhetorical). Not happening. Make the best games each harware allows like PC games, or don't.

It would be one thing if the ps5 and XsX launched after the XsS, so the disparity was the fault of the differing launch times.

But M$ chose to launch two consoles at the same time with vastly different hardware, with the PROMISE (who doesn’t love a good Xbox promise from the last 10 years?) that devs will get tools designed to make dual development seamless between the two Xboxes.

I guess it isn’t as seamless as turning a game down to 30 fps, 1080p, and no RT…. It’s like, making games is complicated or something….

I’m just happy that the ps5 stables of exclusives won’t be affected, but it is a shame for Doom III to inevitably be held back.

remember when they announced it and said it wouldnt hold devs back or something like that?

well ...

Sure, there are plenty of devs who don't know what they're doing.

Meanwhile, the devs who do know what they're doing are easily supporting PS4, PS4Pro, Xbox One, Xbox One X, PS5, Xbox Series S, Xbox Series X, and a couple of hundred/thousand PC CPU + GPU combinations :)

I traded my S in for an X due to the limited resolution on most AAA games. Personally for me 900p/1080p just doesn't look good displayed on a good 4k hdr 65 inch tv.

Meanwhile Sony is churning out cross-gen bangers like Horizon FW and the upcoming God of War. Sure they would be even better if they were PS5 only but the fact is these games are too notch above the rest being cross-gen right now.

I kind of like the Series S. But I do see it as being pain for developers.

To the ones bringing up the PS2. Maybe sit down and think about what your saying before you type.

Now if Sony had a PS2 and a PS2 that was less powerful and forced developers to make sure games run on the less powerful PS2 or don't release on any of the PS2 systems at all. Then you would have a point.

Crying about the PS2 because it was weaker than the OG Xbox and GameCube that's a completely different case. The developers chose to develop for the PS2 and release on PS2. Because it was the market leader. It's what all gamers had. If they want to release on the PS2 because it was two weak they could of skipped it and there was nothing Sony could do about it.

I don't quite understand this, granted the device is less powerful, but the CPU, storage and the ram is pretty much exactly the same as the bigger brother. It has 4 teraflops of performance to the X's 12. If everything else was less powerful then fine, but it's not.

Third of the the graphical performance can be offset by resolution drops as Devs have shown. Struggling? Drop it to 1080p or less, people getting these consoles know what they're buying and are happier with a lesser experience.

This Dev sounds lazy, drop the res, literally what PC players do with a lesser GPU, it's not rocket science.

Got rid of mine months ago, hardly ever used it anyway.

Well... it'd be easy to give an only cloud version for Xbox Series S + installable version for Series X and new models. I like that solution. Every Xbox Series buyer would be able to play new releases. Some, only in streaming, and others... with streaming+local opcions because they paid more for their hardware.

I for one am happy the Series S exist. I have children who game and that $299 machine is perfect for them , I guess ppl tend to forget it’s ppl out there who aren’t hardcore gamers. It’s not like back in the 2000’s when gaming wasn’t as big the demographic is much bigger. It’s hypocritical to even speak out anything being held back , when all three machines are holding back PC players.

this is why exclusives are always the better games, deal with it! ;)

Xbox S holding back games. Who'd of guessed?

Oh wait - I DID!

Neither of these devs answered Jeff Gerstmanns point about PC's. Isn't the average PC GPU used in gaming really old and weak?

So how about the development on PS4 system?......

I'm sure there are "many developers" are saying " drop the mandatory (mobile games, PS4, low end PC, Nintendo Switch, etc) compatibility". If developer can only develop their game on the (supposedly) must powerfully system, there will only be a handful games be developed.

xbox gamers never saw it coming, same with the memory cards, same with activision, same with halo, same with starfield

Why is this a big deal? IGN interviewed the RE4 Remake Producer and he said they made the game for next gen consoles then worked it back for ps4/series s. WB could have done a "Next Gen Patch" for GK but chose not to is how it looks to me.

I knew that from day one .. everyone knew that. Microsoft did that to cripple new-generation development

If Microsoft’s policy continues that games need to made for the S, I hope devs skip Xbox altogether and send them a message.

I don't usually defend the Xbox series S but not even one developer on this article can reference a time when they had to avoid using a next gen feature or make compromises to accommodate the Xbox Series S. Some developers like Rocksteady are blaming the series S for their failings even though RTX 3090s are having trouble playing Gotham Knights at 4k 60 fps.

Until they can give clear examples on how the series S is holding back next gen games, it will not be taken seriously by Microsoft or other stakeholders.

meh... devs are lazy ass these days and don't want to do optimization at all actually.

With DLSS coming they will be even worse

It's like developing exclusively for the rtx 3090 and forgetting all other PC configuration... Soooo stupid reasoning

Note each of the the tweets that went after Series S and called it a potato later deleted their tweets and one left twitter all together. lol

Yeah he's not wrong multi plats need to run on the lowest common denominator which is the xss as you exclude the switch from that equation pretty quickly.

So yes we're likely going to end up with some disparity by the end of the gen the arguement of low PC specs are still way worse than the xss is true now but it won't be in 3 years which could see a 3070 being a minimum required card as we normally see as the gen goes on.

So keep them! And let them all run like cyberpunk ass and when there’s enough evidence many games run like ass on it, the only one who can take the blame will be microsoft. Devs shouldn’t be forced to put out something they don’t want.

And this is why I Booed at the existence of series S but Xbox fanboys cried no foul.

Limiting the potential of THIRD PARTY CROSS PLATFORM GAMES & FIRST PARTY MICROSOFT EXCLUSIVE, the PS5 exclusives are what I buy my PS for, I have a PC for the rest PC.

anti-consumer is the naming convention of all the xbox consoles 🤮 series x and series s…are they series-ous? har har har

I have run the numbers from the steam servey, 58% of all most used hardware has graphical power similar and better to the series s and 17% has equivelant power to the series s. Ontop of that 23% has power equal or more to the ps5 and that is within a period of 2 years with the gpu price inflation.

Every Gpu that is replaced with a new gen gpu right now, has more graphical power (in tflops) to the ps5's ~10.8 (I think) tflop.

In terms of ram, the average machine has 16gb or ram with 8gb and 4gb being the minority AND about 6 to 8gbs of vram.

Ontop of all that, only a small precentage of monitors are operating at resolutions above 2k and the BIG majority of all pc monitors, currently, running at 1080p which makes things even worst, as there more headroom to push high fidelity graphics at that resolution with that much power.

In conclusion, it's already obsolete, and that is with the HUGE price inflation that deterred the majority of users from upgrading. In 2 years time the big majority of users, both in the console ecosystem aswell as pc, will be using gpus at the range of 10-16tflops.

Typical Microsoft.

Remember when they forced-fed Kinects to boost the user base? 🙄

As a Series S owner (my first Xbox console ever), it does feel underpowered compared to my PS5.

Maybe make more taxing games streaming only?

Not everyone has the money to just throw down for a series x. Series s consoles may be inconvenient for game developers but they generate game sales.

No its still supporting last gen consoles that's holding this gen back.

Tell me again how the multiplatform strategy was supposed to fix everything. Look at your results and compare them to Nintendo, which keeps thriving with exclusives. Your loyal fans are gone. And let’s not forget the pile of IPs you purchased only to let them rot.

The worst thing is this is down from last years numbers/expectations which was down from the previous years numbers/expectations. You think about how long “down” has been a consistent part of the communication and you realize those subscriptions are what’s holding that boat together. The price cut of gamespass is still a price raise in a string of price raises. They are trying to use players to offset the missing revenue. Now call of duty is out of gamespass, which is literally WHY they bought the company. To draw people to the subscription. They realized they missed a boatload of money and that wasn’t sustainable. Now you pay for it like you would have if they never bought the company… so why buy the company? Mind you those billions still need to be paid back. Yeah it gives you a chance to say we make the biggest FPS… but the internal conversations must be brutal at high level on topics that really matter. Like revenue. Profitability. And ROI for the shopping spree.

Is this like the 10th quarter in a row they're down 33% on hardware how is that even mathematically possible. You would think their mediocrity would Plateau