"You seriously think Sony needs to include ALL past games for it to suddenly qualify as BC? It's BC........"

My point was that it's not just for old games and isn't just about bc, which it isnt🤷‍♂️ like, it dont.

"I know they said they looked at the numbers. But what numbers? People who used it on PS3? When they removed it after discontinuing PS1/2 BC?
What other data could they possibly have gathered that from? Polls?
People saying they want new games........."

Again sony would know the user data we don't, thats what I said and that was my point, I didnt say I know what data they used, just that they had it and the conclusion they came up with🤷‍♂️ like it, dont.

"I'm sticking to my opinion regardless of your line by line breakdown of your opinion versus mine."

That's fine didn't say you couldn't, you responded to me, so I decided to respond back, much easier to reply and understand if I break down your reply and give my reply to each point, like it, dont.

"Sony also said EA Access wasn't of interest to them. Then later turned around and did it."

Irrelevant to the converstation

"Sony says" doesn't come as scripture and law. It's got it's share of dismissal, backpedal, and PR. Just like any company.

Didn't say it did, does or doesn't, also irrelevant to the conversation.

"They also said we believe in generations making people think the currently announced/upcoming games for PS5 games would be ONLY on PS5. They turned......"

Did they provide next gen only games? They launched the ps5 the exact same way they launched their older systems, not seeing the issue, if there were no next gen only games you would have a point, but you don't.

"So get off your high horse and deal with what I said."

You replied to me, I responded back, you then start getting angry for some reason, yet I'm on the horse?😂

"You think you know so much all the time but forget how you give free passes to your fave company left and right just cuz Sony has more "top 1st party" titles than xbox does."

Examples please? What free passes have I gave Sony and what bad have I gave to ms? I've criticised their support of their systems, as I'm a paying customer, who are you to tell me what I should or shouldn't expect from my investment?
Also irrelevant to the conversation.

"I see you and the vast majority of the Sony fans on here do it all the time.
You'll derive understanding from nothing if it's for Sony.
You'll scrape out a positive Narrative for Sony almost any chance you can.
Then turn around and dismiss almost anything ........"

Proof of me doing this please, also irrelevant to the conversation.

I see People claim to know Phil Spencer's motives and reasoning for saying stuff all the time. Around here, people a t like they can see the future crystal clear when it come to xbox's downfall, but then act like they can see plain facts when Sony does something obvious. They'll dismiss and allow moneygrubbing practices, make excuses, all kinds of...."

Irrelevant to the conversation, but please point to where I have done this.

"So why don't I have permission to do the same from time to time?
I'll call it how I see it and you won't stop me. It's opinions. Fee free to disagree but you did nothing..."

Nobody said you couldn't respond though, why the rant?😂 you responded to me first, remember? I replied back to your reply to me, you on drugs or something?

"In my opinion, Sony's version of BC is literally: Pay to play old games.
That is- CURRENTLY EXACTLY how it is, no matter how many games do or don't"

Again if ps now was just about bc I would agree, but its not, they also offer full bc with ps4 titles so not all their bc plans involve monetization, thats just facts🤷‍♂️

To be honest most of your post is irrelevant to the conversation and comes off more as an angry xbox fanboys rant, 90% of what you just complained about you've done yourself, dare me to point it out, I got time today.

You guys do know that every model PS3 plays PS1 games right? I don’t know where your getting removal of PS1/2 BC from. Only PS2 BC was removed in the PS3 later in the generation

Those examples are my proof that Sony goes back on what they say, and that they will say whatever they wanna say, regardless of how true it actually is. Therefore it is not irrelevant to the conversation.
Yes I went off on you a bit, but that because you're giving Sony a freebie right here and now more or less saying: "Sony said this, so therefore it's true"

They DON'T have data that says people don't use BC. The only console they could have extracted that info from is the ps3. Ps2 was not an online console they could have gathered effective data from, and PS4 doesn't have BC. They have re-sells and remasters on ps4, and who knows? What if part of their "data" is the lack of interest (small engagement for a large install base) for people who were willing to shell out money to stream games on PS now? Not the best way to determine interest. And people need good internet to even TRY it. So like that's them shooting themselves in the foot if they think it's even remotely close to an indication of how many people would use FREE Backwards compatibility.
That would be a piss poor way to claim they have data.
It's bull.

Jim Ryan deflected xbox's focus on BC and made up b.s. acting like nobody would use it.

If it's "highly requested" shouldn't they just DO it? How about they get some data from actually DOING it for free first? Maybe start with PS1 games, see the engagement from people on that front. I guarantee they would see it differently. They would be able to see ACTUAL engagement data from an install base of mostly online and connected devices like they have never had in the past.

Only then could they have enough data to say how many people would use it. This was a deflection plain and simple.

And it was HIS opinion mostly, when looking back at Gran Turismo and not liking the old GFX.

He didnt think about people who LIKE the old games and graphics. He basically said "these games look Ancient, who would want to play them?" Thinking only of HIS viewpoint.
And dismissing every single one of the people he had just acknowledged were "requesting" the feature.

I went off on you because I hate seeing people always find a way to give Sony free passes for bullshit.

I don't hate you specifically, Or the way you do things most of the time, but free passes just create an environment where people think Sony can do no wrong at all . Ever.

My examples were to bring context to the table and show that Sony says whatever they want, and it's not what gamers want from BC. They WANT BC. CLEARLY.
So fuck what Jim said cuz we're all here asking for it, while being told crap about why it doesn't matter to him, when he should be listening... instead of telling us what we want or would use on Playstation.

No, a user said he said something that he didn't actually say, i quoted exactly what he said and no more, I didnt put my own spin on things, didn't add my thoughts, just quoted what was said, I then added that at the time he had a non bc console to sell, that was me acknowledging the downplay of a feature they didn't have.

Everything else you took from my original comment is imaginary.
Again you can think what you wish, believe what you like and comment how you please, i wasn't claiming to know anything more than what was said, I wasn't claiming what was truth vs bull, and I wasn't getting angry putting my point across either.

One one hand you claim that nobody can really know one way or the other and that you are sick of people adding their own spin on things and then go and do exactly that to Jim's own words, only on n4g🤷‍♂️.

Their data that he was talking about was the ps3 by the way, the fully bc console features were not used by many users, its why they started stripping them features out first with cost downs and revisions. Now that's my interpretation of what was said👍

Okay fair enough man.
I agree it was only the PS3 they could have gathered this Info from.
They are dumb to think the Jump from 3d to HD and high res textures is a good time to analyze the amount of users that would like BC.

This was a time when online gaming in console was fresh and new, back to back stunners of beautiful games of that caliber were unheard of and unmatched in their visual scope and wow factor.

Mega hits like Call of Duty and such were just starting to dominate the market and of COURSE people were all caught up in the new games mostly.

But for Jim to say that based on a a set of fragmented ps3 data points doesn't do the argument of whether or not people would use it----
enough justice.

Things are different now. People have seen it all and played most of all the genres and types of games there are at this point. The ability to have a machine do New and Old games well, is in higher demand than it ever was in the past.
The data was not good data to draw such a conclusion from, the opinion was mostly his, (and in my opinion, was because they would rather SELL BC via PSnow) and the desire for good BC still remains and always will. It strengthens the memory of a console family/ecosystem and experiences from the past for a gamer.

To ever say not enough people use it based on one generations worth of hit and miss data is just dumb in my opinion.
And I never said I was innocent of saying my opinion as fact. I know I was pushing my own ideas.

The point is, it shouldn't only be Sony fans who are allowed to declare opinion freely. People are ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS acting like the can forsee the doom of gaming after Phil Spencer interviews and Xbox ruining the industry.

Wel I'am not here saying Sony is killing gaming, and they can do what they want to make money, but to say something stupid as an excuse to not give people what they want, is what I was addressing. And I was just not gonna allow my words and thoughts be "auto-deflected" like a reactionary "N4G is for Sony fans only" and "bots have no games" or "Sony be mostest, and only gooders of all goodz for alwayz and forever cuz Sony make moar games better time and xbox make baddy bad for no-good time with all dem bad bad vidya gamez and haz dem bad money from bad Spencerman" like seems to happen on N4G all the time.

I deserve to say what I think about it. And anyone who thinks for themself, can put aside my preference of Xbox enough to see that Sony, or should I say JIM, mad the wrong statement, and said the wrong facts, andnpointed out flawed data to support his console's deficiencies.

Just like when Spencer said dumb shit about not needing or wanting Singleplayer games and how the future is MP and money is MP ONLY games.
He was dumb for that too.

I'll admit and analyze the dumb shit no matter who or what the source is.
Sony is not immune.
That is the point.

I actually agree that their bc implementation is lacking, I also don't like the idea of it behind a sub either, if they do it, it has to cover the old physical discs too, I just don't know if they can, or really want to.
I have no issue with discussions, but hit me for the things I have said and done and not what the fanboy side of the fanbase I'm associated with say and do.

Cool man sorry if I came out at you. I see your side more and respect it.
I think I we see some of it in a similar way in the end.

Thanks for the back and forth without the hostility that I kinda did.
Cheers man.

Yeah we are deffo on the same wave length, I enjoyed the back and fourth too👊