If they wouldn't have been arrogant and release the PS3 at around $300, they would've had this generation in the bag. They would've been successful just like the PS2. Blu-ray isn't mainstream yet.

blu-ray sales are increasing as we speak, sony wanted to change things around this gen, they are not in a rush, they know that in the end blu-ray was the smartest thing they've ever done knowing how much it is going to profit them in the future. sony is #1 or #2 leading in electronics let alone big business men, they know what they are doing.

Good job on being a complete Xbox fanboy ahha.

seems like everytime Sony launches a console people bish about how they screwed up.

Look, Sony made mistakes but they had foresight with their console which will pay off.

Blu-ray was a major forward thinking decision. 400gb discs are being discussed now. That's an insane amount of space for a dev to play with.

Standard HDD. They took a lesson from MS on that one. How MS made such a "major mistake" refraining for standard HDD is insane to me. I guess anything to be the cheapest.

Free online. Huge. PS3 is neck and neck with Live at this point. Live is no longer vastly superior assuming you think it's superior to begin with. Dedicated servers anyone? Exactly.

In house games. Sony has more devs working on exclusives than MS could ever hope to. Let MS steal every single 3rd party exclusive. No sweat. Certain games are forever Sony and those just happen to be the games I enjoy the most.

I'm good with my PS3. Sony is making a profit on their consoles and the console is selling. Not MS numbers but it's selling well enough. Once the price drops 100 bucks it's a wrap.

I don't care about one thing on that list. I am 100% confidant in my choice of consoles (ps3) and have fun playing it every day.

@ Homicide,

"If they wouldn't have been arrogant and release the PS3 at around $300, they would've had this generation in the bag."

If the PS3 was released at $300 bucks, do you really think that it would have been much of a technological improvement over the PS2? I mean come on, the Wii was released and is still selling at $249. Surely a PS3 at $300 bucks wouldn't have been that much more powerful than the PS2.

At the price that it cost Sony initially to produce the PS3, it would have been suicide for them to sell the PS3 at $300 bucks...heck, even the Xbox 360 didn't debut at $300 bucks, so there's no way in the world the PS3 would when it came out a whole year later.

And yes, Blu-ray isn't mainstream "yet" but with Blu-ray players now selling for $200 bucks and more people going HD, it's only a matter of time before Blu-ray becomes mainstream. Just like how many people were buying PS2's for the DVD capabilities that it had, I think the same thing will happen for the PS3 as soon as the PS3's price gets lower.

For the price that the PS3 has been selling at and still is selling at, it's doing pretty darn good in my eyes...heck, the Xbox 360 was struggling to outsell the PS3 the first half of this year when the 360 was $279, yet PS3 sales have been pretty solid throughout the whole year selling at $399 and $499 and that tells me that when the PS3 drops to $299, it's going to sell like mad Worldwide.

I agree...The PS3 really is doing well considering everything it has going against it..

I remember hearing the same thing when the PS2 1st launched..it's too expensive , the Mass Market wont buy it...Lack of software...all the doom and gloom articles...same thing is happening to the PS3...

The PS3 has made huge strides this year with both hardware and software sales...

yes Sony has lost 3rd party exclusives but guess what those games are still available on the PS3..just that ppl on the Xbox can now play them as well so I dont consider it a lost...to that extent..plus with every lost 3rd party exclusive another 1st party exclusive is announced..^.^

once the price comes down , Sony will have the last laugh

Sony takes huge gambles. I give them alittle credit because the system as far as hardware goes is great. The UI however needed to be updated so frequently that its really hard for Sony to start really advertising an unfinished system from the standpoint that their vision for the PS3 was not just a game system but an entertainment system. The features hardware wise are in place and work great they need to get home finished intergrated, trophies for all titles, chat in all games.....the list goes on. For what it is now it is still a very good value for what they want to do they have ambitious goals which now that I've tried home will only aid them in the long run. I hope that Sony can have a great infrastructure for their next console so that the transition will be easy next gen right out the box have everything that people want right out the box not just the hardware like this gen but from the UI side which is what M$ excels at and have done a good job in. Give credit where its due. It the other way around for M$ and if Sony catches up to M$ lowers the price of the PS3, then the war really begins to see if this lead was price based or because people really like what M$ is offering to consumers.

deny the real issue regarding the RROD and recall their defective hardware. See what I did there.

Everything Homicide said is true. However, Sony is seeming to have learned from their mistakes and they are making up ground.

No matter what anyone says a price cut would push sales sky high, and would cut large amount out of the 360's U.S. dominance(of next-gen consoles).

Many people look at it as though this one holiday season is the only season that counts. Well I hate to burst your bubble but if Sony ran their business year to year they wouldn't have stuck around. As a company you need to plan what you are going to do in the future. Obviously you need to fight presently, but there are many more holiday seasons in store for the PS3.

Sony tripped up in 2006, got coky(lol), and got their asses handed to them. However, they have hit their stride and seem to be focused on moving foreword.

we can disagree with homicide all day, but Sony did move from the most DOMINANT DOMINANT console by far, nothing could touch the PS2, to a very close dogfight for second place with ms

i love my ps3. resistance 2 is awesome and in my opinion much better than gears2, but Sony made a lot of daring choices this gen that haven't fully paid off (and the global recession won't help them during this critical seasonal sales) and they won't be able to get up to the PS2 dominance this gen, who knows about next gen

Homicide you are completely right.You should have 25 agrees and 4 disagrees not the other way around.Seriously guys accept it that Sony messed up and continues to mess up

Homicide.

All you stated was the facts and your getting disagrees.

oh well... some people just have to continue living in denial to feel good about their precious console.

@Tmac

Homicide a 360 fanboy? Why? Because he spoke the truth?

He is right about PS3 owners not buying games that deserve high prraise.He bought Disgaea 3 and Valkyria Chronicles for PS3 which are both unappreciated gems.What have you guys done to support the PS3 3rd party support? Stop buying Ubisoft and Activision games and buy the innovative games instead.

seems to me choosing the blu-ray route really put them in the hole. When PS3 was released I had read about them selling them at a loss. I thought it was a good strategy at the time blu-ray would pick up, ps3 hardware in a couple years would be cheap enough so that they'd start seeing profits.

Here's where we are now. Blu-ray was crowned the next-gen format a long time ago and its still hasn't taken off like I hoped. Blu-Ray players are $200 and still I don't know anyone who has one, friends or acquaintence wise. The kicker and the the one part that surprises me is PS3's are still selling at a loss years later. This is very surprising in the tech hardware world.

I don't really care about the console wars as I don't own either. But I have been following the blu-ray technology since it was announced long before the ps3 was launched. I'm beginning to wonder if blu-ray tech could still fail should hd-dvd make a comeback like I've read. The general market doesn't seem to care for it and it's not like the move from vhs to dvd where the sound and video quality differences were like heaven and hell.

the original poster speaks the truth, and the sdf are all over him like a gang rape!

after the success of the original playstations, sony thought they could do what ever they wanted, and release at what ever price they wanted, and it would be history repeating itself. but it hasn't worked out that way.

yes blu-ray is great, yes sony did rite by including a hdd as standard(why microsoft dropped the standard hdd is beyond me). but their arrogance nackfired seriously. even adding wi-fi(something the sdf try and make out is essntial for on-line gaming. which is i suppose when you live at mum and dads and have no say in where the router goes) doesn't really do anything to tip the scales, or make it seem more value for money.

and what has become even worse for sony, is the fact that their games aren't selling great at-all. it's tough time for sony. and everyone hoping for a price cut. just last week on sky news i saw an announcement from sony were they were saying that they are gonna have to put the prices of their electrical goods UP, because they are losing profits through the current economicak downturn.

bottom line, the ps3 is not even selling 9mil a year, when the other playstations were selling like wiis. something has gone spectacularly wrong. does any of the sdf honestly think that sony would've launched at this high price point if they knew how much they was gonna struggle?????

aclayps3: open zone is that way------> the ps3 could have had exactly whats inside it now sans blu-ray, and launched at the same price as the 360, and would be sitting where the wii is now sales wise. plus, the specs were laid down for the ps3 the same time as the 360s, this "whole year later" was for blu-ray only, nothing else. just stfu.

""Many of their heavy hitters aren't selling great."-

thats because they were not marketed well and their install base is still small due to the high price. its stupid to spend money on marketing a game on a console that has a ridiculously high price. 16 million isnt enough people to throw money at to tell them to buy this game, they need to wait till their install base increases so they are actually making use of the money and advertising for a larger audience and not just a hand full of people, that would be a waste of money ya know."

So let me get this straight. It's a waste of money to market a game for a console because their install base is small? How do you expect it to get any bigger if the people they want to buy the console don't know that there are great games on it? You do know that you have to market to everyone you can in order to raise that install base, right?

With that logic it's amazing that anything new gets marketed. "Well, our product is new, so only a few people have it. We won't spend money on advertising the product until more people have it".

Wow...just....wow.

@Lifendz
"Blu-ray was a major forward thinking decision. 400gb discs are being discussed now. That's an insane amount of space for a dev to play with.

Free online. Huge. PS3 is neck and neck with Live at this point. Live is no longer vastly superior assuming you think it's superior to begin with. Dedicated servers anyone? Exactly."

First of all, 400 gigs is a lot of space, but how much money do you think developers have? Those games better sell incredibly well.

PSN is neck and neck with Live? Have you played Live? I have both and I can tell you that PSN is nowhere near where Live is. Live has silly things like in game chat, parties, Netflix streaming (say what you want but Sony doesn't have anything like that in terms of watching movies with people over PSN). The reason for this is because MS gets money for their service. I truly believe that if Sony had charged for their online they would be where they need to be because they would have the revenue to maintain and progress. As it is now, they're sinking money into something with no return. Maybe it will pay off in the future, but it isn't now. The ONLY people I know that think PSN is better are people that don't have both or are strictly Sony fanboys. Thankfully I'm neither.

I welcome the irrational "disagrees".

9/9/95... The very first day. This is by far my most favorite Playstation of them all. PSone changed the way many game... The PS3 is changing the way we are entertained. It is the ultimate all in one device. There is not one device that can do what the PS3 can in functionality. I have been more than happy about the games, movies, and experiences I have had on the PS3 I would have never had if SONY did not take chances. Sometimes being a lead means take chances some would think could be suicide. But SONY is an innovator. Another company I will not name makes a good game player but they take no chances... Their product lacks all innovation.

I think SONY is actually doing very well. It's not really fair to compare their numbers to the competition. When your competitor is half the price it makes no sense. We should just compare Mercedes sales to Honda sales from now on. Two years ago many did not think the PS3 would make it past a year with the price. Many were spelling DOOM.... Well guess what??? 2009 looks even better. So SONY is doing their part and taking care of the consumer and creating the value in the product...

People often mistake higher sales numbers for increased consumer preference. Clearly in terms of consumer preference the 360 is dead last. How do we know? Ask yourself these questions:

-If the 360 was $400, the same price as the PS3, which would sell better?
-If the 360 was $250, the same price as the Wii, which would sell better.

Thanks to historical sales data, we know the answers to these questions.

360 vs Wii: At $250, the Wii is still outselling the 360 by almost 2:1 despite costing $50 more. Clearly people are willing to pay more atleast $50 more for a Wii than for a 360.

360 vs PS3: At $400, the PS3 was outselling the 360 by 35% month after month after month despite costing $100 more. Clearly, people are willing to pay at least $100 more for a PS3 than for a 360.

So in terms of consumer preference, the 360 is dead last. Between the Wii and PS3, it's hard to determine because the Wii is so much cheaper than the PS3. It's like asking whether consumers prefer a Prius or a Bentley. Both are popular and desirable but aren't in the same price class.

I could tape a pair of scissors to my 360 and say there's not a device like it either because it plays games and cuts paper.

That doesn't mean it's going to make my gameplay experience better.

Sony isn't doing as bad as people say it's just they aren't doing as good as people expected coming off the ps1 and ps2.
ps3 600 dollars downfall #1 but they still sold millions at that price

ps3 losing 3rd party exclusives they were never exclusive the
companies chose that but in return sony has a bigger first party studio than microsoft which is more relevant and that's important

ps3 bad marketing agreed it is bad they need to step it up they need to have more sponsership they need to have more tournaments for there games

ps3 lost market share they've only been gaining since 2006 they didn't lose market share at all they started out 10 million down from 360 now it's like a 6 million difference so that's a gain in market share but sony as a whole as far as psp ,ps2, ps3, then they are ahead of microsoft easily

there heavy hitters are selling great when you sell a million plus your doing good and heavenly sword, uncharted, ratchet, metal gear, motorstorm, resistance, gran tourismo, all over a million plus all exclusive.

lost 3rd party support 95 percent of all multi platform games are on both platforms

delays agreed delays are too much on that system

1luv and god bless from the hiphopgamer www.hiphopgamershow.com stay tuned for this sundays show it's gonna be crazy

HHG=Truth have a bub in advance for your show..I know you good for it.

Ok if you actually do own a ps3 (I doubt).. then you are very misinformed. To list all those screw ups of the ps3, then say Microsoft is doing well with the 360 is kind of hypocritical. I don't know if you remember this problem called the red ring of death, which effected 33percent of all 360s... giving the 360 probably the worst console launch ever. I had to go through my share of ps2's when there readers kept burning out, but nothing to the extent of the 360. To think they have gained any money in this gen is laughable. I'm not trying to say that the 360 isn't a good console, it has plenty of great games, but you can't say that the ps3 has had a terrible launch, and then say the 360 has done everything perfect. Right now the ps3 has had a better launch, and is going at a better pace then the 360. One reason I like sony products is because they make quality products, Microsoft rushes there products, and as you can see how long it has taken to fix the rrod (which hasnt been completely taken care of as of yet, but it is at much smaller chances of happening).

When you want to see who has really done the right job look at Nintendo... They came up with a complete different system (call it whatever you want, it's in the "next gen" market). It has the controller that appeals to almost everyone. I have not herd of a wii breaking, and it's bringing in kids, and there parents, and is dominating in sales. They are just chillin makin bank.

I agree somewhat with homicide. Is not that the machine and the games are a failure. Is how sony has managed (businesswise) the system. Is true they loose exclusives to ms and they didnt do anything to counter ms giving money to publishers. Also they have delayed a lot of things like home, games, and things psn overall. But what the hell. All games are exlusive to me cause I have both systems.

I own a PS3 JHUX. Look at my bio. Still I give props to Sony for the blu-ray thing. At least we didn't get stuck with multiple DVDs and the inferior HD-DVD format.

HD-DVD was not inferior. It was smaller, but it was a completely finished format on release, unlike blu-ray. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray were almost completely comparable otherwise aside from cost, which went to HD-DVD.

they balanced out quite nicely, and neither was really "better". One did have a lot more studio support, and that's where blu-ray won. Not in features or performance.

I don't think they are doing bad, for a $400 system I think they are doing ok, but I think they overestimated the amount of PS2 owners that were going to switch and buy a PS3 or folks buying it for movies. Bluray is taking off but players can be bought now for $150 so it helps Sony in the long run with bluray but not the PS3. That was the player to get when all the players where $399, but now it's about watching bluray for a cheaper price. I hope it still works out for Sony in the end, competition is good and everyone wins by getting better services.

1. The PS3 price is due to the tech inside the PS3. What i mean is Sony would have had to make alot of tech scale back in order to release the PS3 at $300. Should Sony released a hardware like the x360?. Personally i like it how it is. Yes the games initially aren't that much different from the x360 but we are seeing more and more the difference as the gen goes by. The PS3 is a marvel tech wise and i love the fact that i have Wi Fi, HDMI 1.3 and Blu-ray all in one box plus offcourse the PS collection of games. Its still remains to be seen weather Sony's gamble to built the PS3 to last at the cost of higher price point initially will pay off or not. I believe it will pay off long term.

2. 3rd parties exclusive and party support. Sony saw the trend from the beginning and knew that games are getting more and more complex each gen, as a result the cost of game development grows exponentially meaning it will be very hard for 3rd parties to justify going exclsuive. Phil Harrison once said when asked about why Sony let GTA4 go multi said that GTA4 is just too big for Sony. We found out later that it cost 100 million for GTA4. Sony in turn invest more in 1st and 2nd parties which has resulted in the most exclusive IP's output this gen from Sony first parties and partners. As for 3rd party support. 3rd parties are still supporting the PS3 but they have taken a multi-plat strategy and thats all there is to it.

3. Delays. The PS3 archecticture is new and according to most devs its a pain in the ass. Multi core dev is new and in time devs will get the hang of it. Most of Sony devs are perfectionists and they like to take their time to dev the best game they can. I prefer it this way as i would rather wait, pay and play quality than pay and play mediocrity.

4.Heavy hitters not selling well?. First off only MGS4, SOCOM con, RC TOD and Sing Star are the only true heavy hitters(proven franchise) that i know of that have been released and so far most of them are doing pretty well relative to how they did in previous gen.

5. Sony losing market share and fans?. How did Sony lose market share?. The PS2 is still around and the PSP as well. If you meant current gen then that is not logical either. If we are just talking about current gen (wii,x360 and PS3) then that means that the x360 had 100% market share when the x360 was launched in Nov 05. So in actual fact MS lost (current gen) market share to Nin and Sony when they both released the wii and PS3 in Nov 06. Look, there is no way on Earth Sony was expected to sell 35 million PS3 on launch to get 70% market share of current gen. Also it took the PS2 9 years to get 75% of last gen market share which you are claiming Sony have lost. Was the PS3 expected to do the same in 2 years??. Please be logical. As for Sony loosing fans. There is no clear evidence of this happening. In fact, evidence shows that most haven't migrated yet. PS2 is still supported and only about 30% of last gen gamers haven't migrated yet.

6. MS doing well. In time we will see. For now its a mixed bag for MS imo. MS have done well in securing more 3rd parties this gen with multi-plat release of once exclusive PS games. MS have also done a great job in selling games and increasing their profile in Japan. However on the other side. Only reaching 25 million in 3 years (1 year without competition) with a superior and diverse game collection, much cheaper price point and 25 millon xbox fanbase to rely on which unlike the PS2 is no longer supported is not a very good sign for MS. Remeber that it took MS 4 years to reach 25 million for the xbox which was not a known brand name then and without Gears, Mass Effect,Saints row, Bioshock, LP,DR etc. So you see it quite easy to counter that argument that MS are doing well when we put things into perspective. The truth is we won't know for sure until another 2 years.

I am not saying that Sony didn't make any mistakes like you are saying. Rather i am saying that i understand completely why they did what they had to do. For example it would have been a big mistake for Sony not to include Blu into the PS3 which resulted with the PS3 price point. As for cell. All i know is games like MGS4 i believe is not possible on other consoles because of the cell. KZ2 is just the tip of the iceberg.

Is the PS3 Really Doing That Bad? = NO!! next

I dont want to see Sony get something right because this 'screw' up is a big enough of a distraction in my life.

In my look of things.. I really don't see Blu-Ray becoming the standard.. technology advances too quickly. In my eyes, I see Digital Downloads and Instant Streaming to become the new format. That.. or the new HVD*. Physical items will probably fade except for DVD, which is already the biggest thing around. Only about 10% of America even uses HD as their standard format. It's great and all that Blu-Ray is around, but it just doesn't seem like a piece of tech that will take off to extreme levels.

*Holographic Versatile Disc.. can theoretically hold up to 3.9TB.

I have something called patience.

Sony's 1st party games have always taken a good while because they make high quality games. Perhaps if people would let them take their time and quit rushing/hassling them on every single thing, they would see why Sony doesn't rush things to begin with.

I was patient and the games pulled through for me and others.

People like you need to start being content with the things Sony has done right.

No company is perfect. Human beings have flaws. The people who work at Sony are human beings. They're not perfect at all whatsoever. What matters is what they do about their mistakes.

I think Sony learned a hard lesson this year.

@Patchstation

Whoa slow down there.I thought the N64 was a great console.It had the best 1st party ever with plenty of AAA Nintendo and Rare titles

ps3rd should have tapped out on 2007.its worst year

Love it when people make claims with no evidence.

http://www.gamespot.com/new...

THE NPD GROUP's 2007 US GAME INDUSTRY SALES
Nintendo DS: 8.50 million (17.65 million LTD)
Wii: 6.29 million (7.38 million LTD)
Xbox 360: 4.62 million (9.15 million LTD)
PlayStation 2: 3.97 million (41.12 million LTD)
PlayStation Portable: 3.82 million (10.47 million LTD)
PlayStation 3: 2.56 million (3.25 million LTD)

I think he meant worldwide, not just US.

^ the man speaks the truth. America is not the world.

@etownone: Ya know what an azz rape is? having 3 bbls and decreasing.

We all know how situation looks, it's a shame how people are ripping other's throats of. It's the saddest flame war I've ever seen.

talk about being a blind fanboy.. Microsoft making money this gen!?!?!?! haha are you serious? Who is living in denial again? come on.. give credit where credit is due, and 2008, ps3 had the better games. Who cares if the 360 sold more, they had to drop there price lower than a wii... To the companies sales will matter, but as a gamer, it's the games, and the quality of the games that matter. Obviously 07 360 was the leader when it came to quality games, but 08, when it comes to exclusive games... the ps3 "won"...

Resistance 2 wasn't a worldwide release, so sales are not going to be as high. gears 2 is a great game, but for people who only have a 360, the exclusives to choose from is fable 2 and gears 2, so i expect it to sell well. Both Consoles have a good amount multiplatform games, but this year with the ps3, you would go broke trying to keep up with all the games. You have mutliplats like fallout3, then you have lbp, res2, Valkyrie chronicles..etc..I don't know about you, but I can't go and just buy every game at once..I wish I could afford to do that, but I cant :(.

I will also add, like I have said many times before.. put your fanboyism aside, if you are a true gamer, then you can't deny that res2's online is one of the best to ever hit a console (and in my opinion the hands down best online shooter on all consoles).

Now go argue on who has more sales, I'm going to be enjoying the games that come out.

They are making money this gen? They've been making money for a good while. They're still in debt from the original xbox and the 3 year extension, but they are digging their way out of that hole.

"Sony still losing money on every ps3 sold, while MS and Nintendo are actually making money this gen. "

Wow, they really have to be using some 'quality parts' in their 'next gen' consoles... cheap cheaper cheapest broken. Next year you get a free 360 with a pack of potato chips.

BTW, I guess 1/4 of the XBOXes are replacements for the RRODs and people who buy 2 or 3 to have at least one working to get through the weekend.

But yes, I can understand that school kids still love the MS-products. They haven't been forced to use the MS-software at the workplace in the past 15 years and deal with their arrogance when pushing new unfinished versions towards the companies.

"Ps3 totally ass raped 2008 lol."

That's really just subjective to the user.. if we were to go by Software sales and overall impact on 2008, it would probably be the 360.

Cheese, America isn't the world lol.

Tmac has a point though Xbox had a pretty weak line up this year, Gears of War 2 really shined through however it won't win GOTY. 2009 should look pretty interesting, especially with Sony starting off with a gigantic bang.