Epic Games: Unreal Engine 5 will bring a generational change to graphics

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LOGICWINS2208d ago (Edited 2208d ago )

We know that Microsoft mandated 4K/60fps for all their 1st party titles and are actively looking to enforce this standard for older titles running on the Series X.

I'm more concerned about what Sony will do as we haven't gotten the same level of transparency from them. I'm sure Horizon 2 and Spiderman 2 will drop jaws, but if I'm investing 20-60 hours into a game, there comes a point where I'll care more about how the game "feels" when I play it as opposed to how it looks.

I'm gunna be extremely disappointed if Spiderman 2 isn't running at 4K/60fps....I don't care how good it looks.

UnSelf2208d ago

dude i game on a 40 inch lcd from 2014, and havent complained about a single pixel. The jump from SD to HD was massive for me back in 2007 so i just want good physics more than anything

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ApocalypseShadow2208d ago

If Spider-Man 2 chimes in at 30fps but looks like the movies, I wouldn't care. I'm buying it. 4K should be an automatic assumption. But even if it wasn't, but the physics, A.I., etc was increased, I'd take more going on on-screen than worrying about 4K or 8K with less going on.

When fun factor is gauged on if its 4K/60fps, there's a problem. It's when the fps drops during gameplay when more objects are on-screen, is when it's a problem. If the frames are locked, who cares.

Yes. 60fps is smoother. But not needed for every game. If it was that important, Microsoft would mandate that all games on Series X be 60fps. But Microsoft is not that stupid. Developers would just move over to PS5 with exclusives.

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UnSelf2207d ago (Edited 2207d ago )

Sure, it’s not needed for every game, of course not, but wherever it is absent, that game should rightfully express the zenith of physic dynamics. No excuses

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bouzebbal2207d ago (Edited 2207d ago )

But not immersion
The tech demo graphics were good but it was lacking life

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RabbitFly2207d ago

The reason Microsoft has mandated 4k/60 is because they are making cross gen games and want something to put on the box that differentiates the series x versions.

If you think that is going to be the standard going forward I am afraid you will be disapointed.

If you hold fps to that regard you should not be arguing for 4k resolutions anyway. As that is where the major preformance conflict is.

rainslacker2206d ago

I don't care about frame rate so long as it's consistent, and high enough that it isn't distracting. 30fps has been fine for me for years, and I don't see any reason why I absolutely have to have more, nor have I ever been disappointed because a game wasn't 60fps. I know some games of the past had frame rate issues....usually dips to be extremely noticeable or even game breaking....but I haven't seen many games that have that problem in spades since this gen started. I can't even think of one, and any game that has such things it seems to be by design....like a victory in battle in a JRPG.

4K is fine, but realistically, I'm fine with lower resolution. 1080 I can play just fine, but from 1440 or 1800 to 4K, I'm not going to notice much difference myself, and generally passive upscale from those resolutions is good enough for my tastes. Checkerboarding "upscaling" also provides good results, although sometimes isn't as good as passive.

To me though, the biggest thing is how the game plays as a whole. Feel isn't going to be lessened if a game isn't at 60fps. Some may care more about that, and maybe some people are just more sensitive to it. But not playing a game because of it just seems like you're going to exclude yourself from playing a lot of games, because most probably aren't going to target that.

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masterfox2207d ago

https://n4g.com/news/234401...

I wonder where they are hiding now. :D

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blackblades2207d ago

IKR

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rainslacker2206d ago

I honestly believe that most people don't really even have a reasonable expectation that meets what next gen graphics can provide. They talk about resolution, frame rate, ray-tracing, and other fancy PR terms like they understand them, and know what they will bring, but I think most of them don't really know how that means for practical application. Some showings of such things has given some clues to that, but when it comes to real world results, it's just not a tangible thing that people really seem to be able to say why the tech has them excited, and how it will make things look.

The UE5 demo even was not as good as it can get. It's purpose wasn't to show off what the full potential of next gen GPU's can achieve, but rather, what can be done with the other tech which overcomes bottlenecks that exist in today's computer set ups.

People are trying to downplay the demo as not having actual game play, but seem to fail to realize that what they were showing was a game play scenario. Yeah, it didn't have a lot of what you'd expect in a game play loop, but it didn't remove a lot of the things that exist within that loop. It had AI from the object. It had particle effects. It had movement and complex animations. It had environmental interaction with real time collision detection. It had LOD, complex lighting and shading, common environment set ups, and complex topography within.

About the only thing it lacked was some sort of combat simulation with an attached AI routine for enemies.

Some concessions will have to be made with any design. That doesn't change that these kinds of graphics are a good thing to expect from next gen....even if it is actually lower than what is possible.

phoenixwing2207d ago (Edited 2207d ago )

ok i know this isn't exactly the perfect place for this but, to all the people saying the tech demo didn't have ray tracing on I have to ask for you to research what exactly lumen is before you speak. the devs during the presentation said it was global illumination technique. i looked up what global illumination is and guess what? It's a form of RAY TRACING. so my question to all you people going "but it's not ray tracing enabled" on these videos are you daft? do some research before you open your mouths. My real question is if lumen from unreal engine 5 is better than traditional ray tracing or just as good?

we'll have to wait to find out i guess but please stop going "but but it's 1440p with no ray tracing" you're only half right

Edit: to anyone who reads this please mention this to people saying there's no ray tracing in the ps5 tech demo. if they want to argue it was 1440p that's fine by me but this crap about ray tracing is getting on my nerves and annoys me since all they had to do was listen during the video.

Second edit: so i just looked it up again and global illumination is the "superior" form of ray tracing so to people saying it's not ray traced you're so wrong lol

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2207d ago

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Profchaos2207d ago (Edited 2207d ago )

DF analysis video explains lumens it as being a great alternative to traditional ray tracing that is not as costly but not quite as good however the price of performance being much less makes it way more attractive over crippling the system

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phoenixwing2207d ago (Edited 2207d ago )

interesting. i'm good with that explanation. and yeah if you want to get in that xbox series x will have better ray tracing then i don't mind because i expect it to considering the specs. I'm just saying this version of ray tracing is in there and i find it way more acceptable than crippling the system as you put it. until i see otherwise doing the traditional form of ray tracing is a waste of resources and would be better spent on fps until many generational leaps later to where it's not considered such a resource hog

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Bruh2207d ago

Its a stepping stone, it will never be as realistic as a fully real time GI ray traced lighting solution. But for the hardware we're getting next generation its probably more realistic than Ray Traced lighting. Nonetheless, closer to the generation where we'll eventually match Hollywood lvl CGI on our video games

Bruh2207d ago (Edited 2207d ago )

What I find hilarious is how you're trying to really mock people for your perceived idea of higher intelligence when you really do not have any clue as to what you're talking about. Global Illumination is a form of a lighting technique in which your view of the screen or scene in the case of movies/ video games is shown through a combination of indirect and direct lighting. Ray tracing is a rendering technique, its the utilization of light paths to improve realism in virtual worlds. They are not one in the same, you can have Ray Traced shadows, without a ray traced GI solution. ( COD: MW, SOTD) Ray traced reflections while also running a baked GI solution. (BF5)

Now as far as the video, EPIC has made it really clear themselves there is NO ray tracing in the demo, they didn't clarify as to why, just that UE5 will ship with hardware accelerated Ray tracing solutions when it launches.

phoenixwing2207d ago (Edited 2207d ago )

I only studied up on ray tracing yesterday. but to quote you "without ray traced gi solution" sounds a lot like a form of ray tracing when you used the words ray tracing before GI but what do i know?

rainslacker2206d ago

Ray-Tracing is a type of global illumination, but not what is needed to be able to call something global illumination.

Global illumination means that all light sources, or multiple ones, are taken into account when shading the texture itself. Each light source in a scene can have different priorities given to it, but in typical practice, what is done nowadays is that each light that is reflected on a surface is taken into account, and then the pixel is drawn to whatever standard the designer is using. That object can then cast it's own light, like say a reflective surface, which is then also added to the global illumiation.

Ray-Tracing works differently. Each light source cast out a "ray". Multiples in fact, in different directions. When that ray hits a surface, it's added to that particular textures global illumination variable. At this point, that ray continues on as it would if hitting any surface in real life. A cloth chair won't reflect a bright ray that will affect another non-reflective surface, but a shiny piece of metal will maybe cast off a light which will then be used on the next object that ray hits. As all these rays are reflected, the nature and color of the light is changed, and then recast into it's own ray, and that ray will then be used on the next object it hits.

This kind of thing is very processor intensive, because it involves processing the actual light source, adding it to other light sources, applying it to the texture, shading it for render, processing the reflected ray if needed with the combined light sources and a new ray being created, then doing it on the next object. It has to do this every frame, for every pixel, or group of pixels on the screen.

There are multiple forms of ray-tracing available, and for the most part, each implementation has it's pros and cons. Console ray-tracing isn't going to be like Pixar server farm ray-tracing. It'll use tricks to simulate results, and graphics designers have become really good at using or making up these tricks.

phoenixwing2206d ago

thanks for explaining it better, i wasn't trying to come off as a expert on the subject, i only just started looking up this stuff

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2207d ago

--bienio--2207d ago

They forgot to tell as well “ only is ps5 “ 😂marketing crap!

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GOULDYBOBS2207d ago

Funny how all of a sudden everyone is happy with 30fps at 1440

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CaptainCook2207d ago

I know, right? They were complaining about Assassins Creed : Valhalla being native 4k 30fps on Xbox Series X, while Unreal Engine tech demo was running at 1440p 30fps on PS5.

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rainslacker2206d ago (Edited 2206d ago )

Isn't that more because MS was implying that was going to be the case, and people thought they'd mandate it for 3rd party....which those people shouldn't have, but still they did.

I don't think I've seen most Sony gamers be that concerned over resolution or frame rate.

Movefasta19932207d ago

ANd it's not even a game!!!! These visuals versus what Rockstar was able to achieve on current gen systems with rdr2 at 4k 30 with all it's detail, aren't all that impressive.

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GOULDYBOBS2207d ago

For the record I play ultra settings at 1440 on PC. I like all consoles. I am simply pointing out the hypocrisy of people on here

Movefasta19932207d ago

So 1440p/30 with no ray tracing? What happens when it is an actual game with npc running around and enemies and wildlife , I highly doubt games next gen will be set in some empty desert like location with one character. This was not impressive imo, I will wait for the decima engine and naughty dog and Rockstar.

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Bruh2207d ago (Edited 2207d ago )

The one thing I've yet to see from UE5 is a real time ray tracing solution. They state dynamic GI, but thats really a stepping stone to real time ray tracing based GI. That demo was incredibly impressive, especially the LOD part, but Naughty Dog has already shown you don't need dynamic GI to produce great indirect bounce lighting, I've really only seen ray tracing beat their lighting methods.

They state UE5 will have ray tracing , curious as to why it was omitted in this tech Demo. Is it not ready? Can the hardware (PS5) not run it? Would've love to get answers to this

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phoenixwing2207d ago

i think it can run it just not at an acceptable resolution and I also believe the 8k assets they loaded in won't be something the xbox can handle but will have better lighting so it will be a wash of sorts

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Bruh2207d ago (Edited 2207d ago )

Those weren't 8K assets lmao, EPIC games states that the technology allows them to push UP TO 8k quality assets. The SSD architectures in both systems are extremely similar, nonetheless the PS5's SSD is not so far ahead that it can load 8K assets while the Series X's can't

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phoenixwing2207d ago (Edited 2207d ago )

watch the video again they were 8k assets they mention it

Edit: "What kind of detail levels are we talking about here? The 'Lumen in the Land of Nanite' demo includes a close-up on a statue built from 33 million triangles with 8K textures." https://www.eurogamer.net/a...
digital foundry said so

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