***Chris what is even the point of that comment? If we reach that point there won't need to be any discussion, I will be right and you and everyone else will be stuck.***

It's me saying you're jumping the gun drastically.

"This is the last console generation"
"DLC will result in them doing only episodic content in the future"
"MTX is the future, all games will have them"
"Streaming games is the future"

Hyperbole is just that. We need to lay off of it and stop trying to set how things will be when all our other "predictions" haven't become what people said they would be.

***Much like DLC and MTX I said don't buy into that crap but people like you bought it anyways and here we are.***

Here we are where?

First, what is the issue with DLC in general? My understanding is the issue was with DLC akin to horse armor, not all DLC?

Second, tons of games without DLC and MTX, big ones at that (God of War, Days Gone, Crackdown 3, HZD, Infamous, Dishonored, and more).

Third, is all MTX evil? I thought the issue was lootboxes for $60 games? Fortnite is free but has lootboxes, evil? Apex Legends is free but has lootboxes, evil? Isn't the issue for those who utilize predatory lootboxes and not just MTX in general?

And, finally, again, tons of games, award winning ones, that don't have any such things. Heck, the majority of Switch games fall under that. Most Sony exclusives fall under that. Most Indie games have nothing of the sort. Are we really comparing the annual cash grabs that have always been as such since before these conversations even become the norm to everything else?

***Microsoft's executives have said what their goal is end of discussion on that.****

And what were their goals with the Zune? Windows phones? Having goals doesn't mean consumers will buy into it the way they want. They are profit focused, that doesn't mean it will work.

By that logic, why did anyone complain about SWBF2 lootboxes? EA wanted it, shouldn't we just have accepted it?

***Quit telling me not to say anything until it's too late.***

I didn't say that. Reread what I said.

***And you know what I am talking about when I talk about DLC and MTX, it's a prevalent thing in gaming now, and that wasn't always the case and it din't have to be this way.***

I honestly do not.

Here's what I do know:

1. Last generation had tons of DLC, with Oblivion, the "Horse Armor" scandal DLC item, being a release title last generation even.

2. DLC is completely optional and it is extremely rare that the core game of a game with them isn't a full game regardless.

3. Most games with prevalent MTX are free to play now. Sure, some of them have options for 'packages' to unlock content without lootboxes, but they are still available for free. They are also the ***most supported*** games out there. I dislike the concept of non-cosmetic MTX in general, but there's no denying that games with them are the most supported and played games out there. Perhaps because of that support people play them more often and for longer?

4. But, the thing is, our industry is not comprised of just such things. There are a ton more options out there. I don't play BR games, but if I did, I'd never have to pay anything to play it. It's an option, it hasn't 'overtaken' the industry. It's just added to it. Sure, there are predatory instances of it, but customers have spoken out on those.

***I don't know why any of you given Microsoft's history trust them in anyway to do whats right by the consumer with out being forced too by competition or consumers rejecting their ideas.***

I trust Microsoft as much as I trust Sony and Nintendo here. All of them are about profit and will do what it takes to get it. As if Microsoft is the only one doing MTX? Sony has it on their annual baseball release game and in their MP game modes. As if Sony supports their gamers better than Microsoft in everything and yet I could put an Xbox 360 disc on my XBO and download, for free, the BC version of it and play it (what's that, not a big deal? Then I guess Microsoft did even more of something nice if so few use it, so much wasted money).

I'm not pro-MIcrosoft or anti-Sony. I'm neutral and realize that all of them will do things that I like as well as things I don't like.

But I'm not going to lay the blame at Microsoft for talking about what they want in the future when tons of things they wanted to do didn't work out (hint: see initial reveal of Xbox One and always online stuff).

@Christopher

I dont want to take a side in all this discussion about what's right and wrong, or whatever.

But, I noticed you pointed out that the problem with MT was loot boxes in $60 games.

While that is a problem, if you watch the progression of the MT debate since horse armor, you will see that as time passes, people end up accepting some things, or just get to a point where they know that complaining isnt going to do anything. We went from horse armor is bad, kill it now, to, "well, cosmetic stuff which doesn't affect game play is ok", even if begrudgingly.

The point I'm trying to get across is that these over reactions now are probably too extreme for what's going on now, but that doesnt mean that if allowed to go unchecked that it won't become a problem that there is no way to remedy.

I dont think streaming will replace traditional hardware/software models anytime soon. But I also think that dismissing the topic as not an issue now makes it something that these companies that want control are hoping people do, because it allows them to keep pushing a little more each time, until we get to something like loot boxes. If I may extend the allegory.

I'm not a huge fan of the slippery slope, but the industry at large does have a habit of running down that slope with wanton disregard to the consumers wants. I love the industry and am part of it. I dont trust the industry in the least as a consumer though.

The problem here is this pretending that all these hypothetical, worse case, doomsday scenarios are all going to come true and then arguing them as if they are happening right now. That's seriously all I'm reading from GamingUnited, huge rants that only serves to bring up what MS has done and then place any and all blame on them. Google was ultimately dropped from the original blame in favor of going off about MS.

This and blaming MS for streaming services all the while ignoring that Sony are the ones that brought there's out first and have also said they will push it even harder next gen.

All this is ignored on purpose just to rant and rave about MS. Let's ignore EA, Ubi and other huge video game leaders who are all going down this same route. This is where the industry is heading towards, not just MS pushing this, everyone in the industry is looking at this and wanting to jump in on it and not be left behind just in case it does take off.

No one is dismissing this topic, we're dismissing the over the top, science fiction that people are adding to the topic.

^^^^^^

@rainslacker: Good response, but I think ignores a few things.

1. Console/PC games are now massively dwarfed by mobile market. Other than a handful of console games, that's where the microtransaction money truly exists.
2. Potential market reach has grown rapidly. That market growth has come from mobile market while existing console market hasn't truly changed, just grown with more people following mobile market trends.
3. Having more options has not taken away how games have worked and how people like them, it's only added alternatives. Alternatives that core console gamers who don't buy MTX have appreciated and played as well.

@Chris

I don't think I ignored those things, they just weren't relevant to the point I was trying to make. The MT being more like what we saw in the mobile market has been building since mobile was suddenly going to make consoles obsolete last gen. The things we tend to let go with MT now, are things we complained about with as much disdain last gen, as we see with loot boxes now.

What it came down to is that the industry can just wait it out until people stop caring, and then allow new things to take the heat, while the things we didn't like last gen go unnoticed, or not talked about at all. I'm sure you and I can agree that the gaming communities attention is rather short lived on topics that get us going, as there is always some new shiny thing to dislike right around the corner.

The industry itself, generally speaking, isn't that worried about the complaints from the community, because I'm sure you'll also agree, that they know the vocal community isn't one that makes up the largest portion of the market. MT in general aren't meant for everyone, they're meant for those that don't care, and are willing to buy them. Most companies bank on the whale model, so even if ten thousand people complain, there are another twenty thousand who will spend the money, and many times, those that complain still at least buy the game itself. The industry has nothing to lose, because gamers aren't a united front fighting against this stuff. On occassion these criticism have some effect on the company, or the games, but it's exceedingly rare in comparison to how many games actually do get released with distasteful MT models.

@Gaming

The reason I didn't want to take sides in my comment was because I was trying to bring another point of view to a single thing he said. I've had plenty of arguments with Chris which we completely disagreed, some of them not overly friendly, and I've never been banned for those comments. Any bans I've gotten in the past were always because I was pissy with another user, and tended to lob out a personal insult for whatever reason. Keep it respectful, and you should be fine.