To be fair, Fallout 4, itself, was a really bad Fallout title.

While I wish for no game to really fail....I am kind of enjoying this thing recently where SP games are killing it in the scores and sales, and some high profile MP games are not doing as well as they should, or being raked through the coals in the reviews.

I think some publishers need to be taken down a few rungs.

Granted, this game may still sell great, so reviews may not matter, and somehow this will be our fault or Bethesda will just say how much they learned from its failure when they release their next MP only game.

And this is the same core engine as Fallout 3 with glitches included!

Agreed. They need to get on the level of Sony with GOW and Spiderman

Bethesda may be forced to treat its own in house developed games with the same care they treat their outsourced published games. God forbid they deliver on a good product, that also runs well.

It's long been a dream of mine to play an Elder Scrolls game that didn't look outdated by 5-6 years, and played smoothly. Even when I played their games on PC way back in the day. Kind of sad some of the other big western RPG IP's went by the wayside, while these games get so much attention.

No no...you're just "misguided". It uses a new renderer, and lighting techniques, and a new realtree....err, I mean landscape generator.

Truthfully though, it's not so much the engine that's the problem, as an engine can realistically be upgraded indefinitely. It's not always necessary to update the core of the engine to make it a new engine. UE3 and UE4 are not that much differnt at a core level, but they do make significant changes to some of the ways that things are processed.

The problem is is that they're only upgrading parts of their engine, and not really going into too much effort to take advantage of the newer technologies available to make it better. This may change for next gen, as the new system architectures kind of demand a different way of programming than they typically use for their games this gen and last. GPU compute is going to have a much bigger push next gen, and if Bethesda doesn't account for that, their games are going to run like crap, unless they brute force it, in which case, they'll still look like crap, and it'll probably still bugs, because the bugs themselves aren't because of the engine, but because they don't take the time to optimize or fix those bugs. That being said, it's hard to imagine that Bethesda invested that much into improving the engine, because they didn't seem to bother this gen...and this gen is more of a departure from last gens programming paradigms than next gen will be from this one.

Its kind of funny, all of last gen people complained about how the PS3 worked and said it was hard to program for, so bethesda didn't optimize its engine for it, and this gen, GPU compute does pretty much what SPE programming did last gen...although it is easier to accomplish. But they didn't really take the time to make the structure. Epic and Frostbite did, and they were well set up to have strong engines this gen, which will only get stronger next gen.

It depends on your point of view. If you know Bethesda and are honest with yourself enough to expect reality, no, it's not that bad. Still pretty flawed at it's core and with a lot of questionable design choices, but playable and even fun at times. a 6/10 at best. If you are a gamer who plays many AAA titles and has a certain expectation of quality across the board, it's pretty much well below an acceptable standard on multiple levels. Still playable, possibly fun at times, but overall not worth the money. Probably a 4/10. If you are someone who really like Bethesda games and was hoping to see TES6 or Fallout 5 instead of an online game, it's the devil and possibly the cause of most pain and suffering in the world. Easily a -10/10.