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F*** 4K. Give me interactive environments.

Yes, you read the title correctly, this article is about why interactivity in video games is better than higher resolutions and clearer pictures. Increases in visual fidelity have their place in gaming, of course, but recently the scales have shifted towards 4K and it’s annoying.

NecrumOddBoy2962d ago

4K is just a resolution of visual fidelity which helps a ton. Do you support PSVR?

JHOP2961d ago

It does help and I appreciate it. But imagine if that power was put to use in making the environments more interactive instead of just visually pleasing. PSVR is interesting but I believe the tech has a long way to go in terms of price and the inevitable clunkiness of the games.

HaveSumNuts2961d ago

F*** interactive environments, give me destructable environments

Atticus_finch2961d ago

Havesum, interactive environments includes destructible environments.

BlackTar1872961d ago

Interactive environments include destructive environments.

masterfox2961d ago

@HaveSumNuts

"F*** interactive environments, give me destructable environments",<-- hehehe you know that's part of interactive environments XD

tontontam02961d ago

Some people won't listen they are all about 4k now. if devs continue to listen to these 4k people. next gen graphics will just be ps4, xbox one graphics @ 4k.

mikeslemonade2961d ago

You casual gamers don’t understand.

4k is easier to do and easier to “perfect”. If everybody went the interactive route the games would be broken because most developers can’t make an interactive vr game correctly. So let 4k grow and let vr grow slowly on its own pace.

You casual gamers only think about the end result. How you get there matters too.

BlackTar1872961d ago (Edited 2961d ago )

@Mikes I'm pretty sure the 4k crowd would be more casual then interactive environment.

You casual

mikeslemonade2961d ago

^ lol you don't know what you're talking about

Just go to tradeshows and see who is playing the VR and developing for VR. They usually don't have much knowledge classical and legacy type games.

bouzebbal2961d ago

I think 4k is a scam.
I was expecting the same feeling avec hd ready came out..
I bought a 4k tv but i notice almost no difference.

InTheZoneAC2961d ago

Havesum, interactive environments includes destructible environments.

xX-oldboy-Xx2961d ago

bouzebbal - you must be doing it wrong, buy a decent 4K player (Panasonic/OPPO) and then buy a 4K disc. They're not all created equal of course so do a little research. Have a look at High-def digest and Blu-ray.com. Streamed 4K isn't as good as plonking a disc in a player.

thorstein2961d ago (Edited 2961d ago )

"PSVR is interesting but I believe the tech has a long way to go in terms of price and the inevitable clunkiness of the games."

Well, that's quite the assumption, and completely faulty, I'm sorry. That isn't the statement of someone who has one or has played one especially all of the amazing games that are available.

It's 299.

BlackTar1872961d ago

If you honestly believe hardcore is 4k and detail of the games is casual then wow.

TFJWM2961d ago (Edited 2961d ago )

@bouzebbal Get a real 4k tv and watch 4k content and you'll see it. If you get some budget sh*t and watch cable than ya...Even streaming content on a 4k makes a big difference in visual quality. A top of line 4k makes a difference in even 1080p content.(I'm sure you'll google a tv you don't even have to respond...)

AuToFiRE2960d ago

Then why not just have more power like with PCs?

bouzebbal2960d ago

@TFJWM:

i have the best 4KTV you could get a bit over a year ago, like my previous TV i still have.
i did not have the same feeling when played the games in 4K as i had from non HD to 720p upgrade.
the difference was massive back then.

+ Show (13) more repliesLast reply 2960d ago
Godmars2902961d ago

Do you read Sutter Cane?

Would love to see a Mass Effect crossed with Phantasy Star Online.

FATAL1TY2961d ago

F**k 4k, xbone x, WiiU ports....

Give Me God of War, The Last of Us 2, Spider-Man, New IPs!!

Muigi2961d ago

All of those titles you mentioned are gonna be in 4k tho...

Dragonscale2961d ago

Regardless of that, new ip's all the way.

MarineLineman2961d ago

@Muigi Chevkerboard 4K, but the point is that the developers of those games could’ve easily pulled a Turn 10 and sacrificed a lot of graphical fidelity to achieve native 4K, but those devs instead chose to make their games look awesome and have higher resolution take a back seat.

OffRoadKing2961d ago

It makes for a sharper image but it densest help "a ton."

-Gespenst-2961d ago

But so many resources go into making graphics super sharp. A lot of games have become "look, don't touch" because of it. There aren't any resources left over to give their worlds more depth.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 2960d ago
ApocalypseShadow2962d ago

I'm going to have mostly agree with this article. Excluding the fact that BoftW was not the first interactive game. There are several games in the past without making lists that allowed more interaction in a game. And I've mentioned this before in the threads.

I'll take a game with animation, physics, destruction, weather and lighting over a push for higher resolution. I still play games that are not even 1080p and more like 480p(still play snes/genesis level graphics every week) and it doesn't bother me. Resolution is fine. But don't make it some mandatory thing to have that your willing to skip a game because it doesn't achieve maximum tv screen output.

Same with some knuckleheads that say they want 60fps for every game. Or 60fps better be mandatory for next Gen. 60fps is nice too. But that will never stop me from playing a **FUN** 30fps game. Or pixel graphics. Or cartoon shading, etc.

If a developer can achieve both? Then great. But I'll take drive club and Horizon level of weather effects and 30fps at lower resolution any day over a bright image 4K image, more pixels and a lack of weather, destruction, etc. But that's just my opinion.

septemberindecember2961d ago

Which games have more interaction than BotW? I, honestly can’t think of one. I’d love to check them out though.

AspiringProGenji2961d ago

Far Cry 2 and way more realistic than BotW

septemberindecember2961d ago (Edited 2961d ago )

@AspiringProGenji

I appreciate you commenting! A lot of people disagreed, but I was legitimately looking for examples. I’ve played Far Cry 2. It has some great physic effects (like spreadable fire), but I wouldn’t say it has more interaction than BotW. I mean, even the shade changes your body temperature in BotW

_-EDMIX-_2961d ago

There's a whole laundry list of games that are more interactive than breath of the wild because breath of the wild itself inherently is taking its features from other games anyway.

If anything can you name some features that were in breath of the wild that I've never been done before in any game to actually state this? So when you say more interactive what actual thing inside of breath in the wild was done in regards to interaction that was never done before in gaming

Because I'm pretty positive one of you guys tried to State lightning strikes was never done in a game before in regards the breath of the wild and you guys got completely embarrassed in that article you guys literally sound like you don't really play enough games to know what your talkin about.

Because for a game that gets as much praise as breath of the wild you guys seem to have an extremely hard time even naming a thing happening in the game that was never done before it....

Imalwaysright2961d ago

AspiringProGenji

No. Not even close.

septemberindecember2961d ago

@Servbot

Red Faction was one of the first PS3 games I owned! Great game, and impressive destruction physics.

Interaction wise though, while you can destroy objects there isn’t much else in the way of inter object physical interactions. I’d still say BotW has more.

septemberindecember2961d ago

@-_EDMIX_-

If there is indeed a “whole laundry list” of games with more interactions then you should be able to provide examples.

Also, I never alluded to the idea that BotW did these interactions first. But it does have the most physics based inter object interactivity of any game I’ve played so far.

sampsonon2961d ago

Horizon is on another level when it comes to animations, combat, looks, weather, story, and music.
and in regards to BoTw I'm not into barren, boring combat, with the same crap story and last gen looking graphics.

what an empty game

_-EDMIX-_2961d ago

September- if you're going to make an argument that this game is doing some sort of revolutionary interactions it should be upon you to even list what you're talking about.

Because it's sounding like you don't want to list anything because you know there's a lot of games not very much have these elements.

Breath of the wild is using Havok physics engine a third-party license. Engine so you're not actually even referring to something that Nintendo created or does not exist in another game in some form...

Literally the exact engine Exist Elsewhere which means it's not even something exclusive to breath of the Wild.... so you haven't played it but you being uneducated about games doesn't really help your claim it simply means you haven't played it would buy that argument you've only played a handful of games so it to you it's something revolutionary but we're not really talking about what you've played were talking about if it exists elsewhere.

Last time I remember Nintendo did not create the Havok physics engine...

news to me.

What are the interactions that you're talking about? Why are you so scared to list them? 😎

septemberindecember2961d ago (Edited 2961d ago )

@EDMIX

I haven’t called the game or it’s interactions revolutionary on this comment thread (or ever, to my knowledge), so I’m not sure why you are acting like I have. Also, you are the one who argued that there were a list of games that were more interactive than breath of the wild. I’m wasn't making an argument, I’m asking for evidence of your argument.

It has nothing to do with one particular interaction being revolutionary. It has to do with BotW having the most of these interactions of any game I’ve played yet. Listing these interactions whether elemental or physics based would take a lot of work, and I’m not sure why I have to when you are already confident that there are many games out there with more interactions without me listing any. Go ahead and list those games so we can have a discussion. Right now youre just attacking a straw man.

Chexs19902961d ago

Second sight had a ton of interaction with the environment :)

+ Show (9) more repliesLast reply 2961d ago
michellelynn09762961d ago

What games had the level of physics, detail and manipulation of the environment like BoTW. I would like to know.

Imalwaysright2961d ago

None. BoTW is the most realistic and detailed game ever made.

_-EDMIX-_2961d ago

What are you talking about? Breath of the wild physics are actually derived from the Havoc engine a third-party physics engine which actually means by default they cannot be doing something that is impossible when it's licensing of a third-party engine....

It would be like trying to brag about something revolutionary in lighting of a game and the lighting is completely license from the crytek engine...

So I'm pretty positive you would definitely like to know because it sounds like you don't really play enough games to know what you're talking about... propagation of fire was done in Far Cry 2 you could get struck in lightning in Final Fantasy 10 and Mad Max there is numerous amount of interaction done in games with their environment, no man's Sky , Minecraft, the list goes on.

So I believe the audacity for this fan base to literally try to claim something that has happened in multiple games it's somehow revolutionary in breath of the wild I believe is embarrassing of you guys it shows you don't even play enough games to fully understand the other developers have done this before but suddenly one Zelda does it you're pretending it's revolutionary.

So you guys would actually know this if you actually played games on other platforms besides one.....

Theknightofnights2961d ago (Edited 2961d ago )

@EDMIX

The question isn't really regarding what individual instances of games have had some similar interactions as breath of the wild. It is what game has had MORE than breath of the wild.

Which none of your examples have had more. They just have individual instances of a few select interactions.

Imalwaysright2961d ago (Edited 2961d ago )

_-EDMIX-_

Exactly A third party engine that Nintendo modified meaning that if other developers that use Havoc don't do the same modifications, their games will NOT have the logic based interaction that EVERY object in Breath of the wild has (Nintendo calls this chemistry) which is what separates their game from any other game in regards to physics as it allows their game to react in a somewhat realistic way which is something that Far Cry 2 which also was made with Havoc doesn't have.

https://arstechnica.com/gam...

"The developers explained that the eventual game was built with a modified Havok physics engine that made room for "clever lies" in terms of how physics and chemistry were represented. Before building that fully 3D system, however, a basic 2D engine was used to spell out the kinds of freer experiences players can expect in Breath of the Wild. The result is the prototype, pictured above, which still allows players to push objects (for the physics-based puzzles) and combine and destroy other objects (for the chemistry-based puzzles). Developers showed this prototype in action, and it looked slick. (It would certainly pop nicely on the Nintendo Switch's bright 6.2" screen, but there was no confirmation that this prototype was specifically designed to run on the Switch.)"

The work that Nintendo did is what separates the physics in their game from any other game that uses the Havoc engine and you don't need to be a genius to understand that if you modify something then that something will NOT be the same as the original. Not understanding this simple fact is what is embarrassing.

"propagation of fire was done in Far Cry 2" LMFAO fire propagation? That is it? Do you even know in how many ways you can use fire in Breath of the Wild and how it reacts with other elements such as water and air? Does FC2 even have the concept of heat like Zelda does? Does FC2 fire propagation even have interaction with the wood in the trees? I don't know because I didn't play FC2 but I did play FC3 and it didn't in that game.

"could get struck in lightning in Final Fantasy 10" LMFAO In specific areas.... you get to a pre-determined location and you got a lightning in your head. The lightning did NOT interact with metalic objects as it does in Zelda. You coming up with those pathetic examples just shows that you did NOT play Zelda which for some reason you seem to despise for no reason whatsoever since its obvious that you did NOT play the game.

sampsonon2961d ago

older games because they used the same boring empty worlds devoid of any real challenge.
#NOSTALGIA

AspiringProGenji2961d ago

Yeah so realistic every weapon is made of glass. No wonder hyrule has a Ganon problem every hundred years lol

_-EDMIX-_2961d ago (Edited 2961d ago )

@TheKnight - that's actually an irrelevant point because you're basically trying to argue what game only have those exclusive elements and nothing else in terms of a combination that actually applies to every game it would be like trying to say what game has had inexact combination similar to No Man's Sky of course it's going to be zero because the exact combination verbatim is something that only applies to that one game, that doesn't actually mean the game is doing anything revolutionary it's simply saying that the specific combinations only apply to that one game you might as well argue that Far Cry 2 was the most revolutionary game because what other game is called Far Cry 2 with fire in it? lol

It would be like trying to say that no other game exists exactly like the division and then start adding up the exact combination of the things that the game has done but it doesn't really make any sense because individually everything done in the division has actually been done before....

It's a pretty stupid dead moot argument.

It's actually why none of you guys could even list any type of individual element inside of breath of the wild that is never actually been featured in some other game before....

Why are you guys so scared to tell us this magical element? lol

@ima- you could cook with fire in Minecraft are you going to tell me that breath of the wild invented that too? lol

I mean Are you seriously trying to tell me you had no clue. Other games have done this before? A lot of you guys are literally exposing just how young you might be....

Maybe you guys should play some more games cuz it's sounding like you have no clue what you guys are talking about.

Because you're trying to use something being unique to a specific game as an argument to make it sound as if it's revolutionary or something consider that the actual shooting mechanic inside of Metal Gear Solid V is unique to Metal Gear Solid V that doesn't make it revolutionary....

It is simply saying no other game is going to have that exact specific feel, but you could argue that's about even the worst game in existence that doesn't somehow make it revolutionary. sad desperate argument

Imalwaysright2961d ago

Cooking?! Impress... nah! Not good enough! Keep digging. Go watch more Zelda playthroughs or better yet, go play the game.

+ Show (6) more repliesLast reply 2961d ago
Princess_Pilfer2961d ago

60FPs should be essentially mandatory. 30 FPS games feel worst to play, and are distractingly stuttery. I'd take a 720p action game at 60fps over a 4k action game at 30 fps, even if they were otherwise identical.

generic-user-name2960d ago

Bloodborne is proof that 30fps doesn't stop a game from being a masterpiece.

Princess_Pilfer2960d ago

Bloodborn would be objectively better at 60fps. Losing 1/2 your health to a monster because input lag delayed your action is crappy.

narsaku2962d ago

Interactivity in games has nothing to do with resolution. Elder Scrolls Oblivion has more interaction in it's world than most modern games do and it runs on a potato.

Considering the edgy title and horizon picture, I'm guessing this is some kind of sly knock on XboxX, right?.. It's shit like this that's causes the vast majority of the fights over the years.... Sad.

JHOP2961d ago (Edited 2961d ago )

Nope. I wrote this as a way to show that a lot of dev time is used on working with 4K assets and ensuring a game can run as close to 4K as possible, instead of spending that time thinking of new ways to implement more physics-based interaction in their games. I would urge you to read the article.

The market and its consumers seem to appreciate resolution and numbers instead of how interactive a game is. I make the argument that interactivity is much more important and the immense power of consoles like the PS4 Pro or Xbox One X can be used to make sub-4k/1080p games with realistic environment interaction instead of 4K games with static but beautiful worlds. I'm a proud Xbox One X and Switch owner and I enjoy 4K gaming. It's sad that you jump to conclusions like that from reading a title.

bigmalky2961d ago (Edited 2961d ago )

Like FFXV right? Square Enix have been selling out on that empty open world and trash combat system over trying to make the game as pretty as possible.

All the people masturbating over 4K and special quality visuals constantly overlook how mediocre the game is because of it.

I see this happening more and more as the argument for better graphics and frame rates totally shuns actual enjoyment from full priced games these days. It's absolute pretentious bullshit that allows bad publishers to push out pretty games over quality, fun games.

Casuals and tech junkies... Go home.

TheGamingArt2961d ago

Wait what? O.o. There isn't that much dev time placed into raising resolutions in games. Optimizing games for the best framerate, sure. But that is more of a foundation on which your engine is build. Whom has been feeding you these lies?

Soc52961d ago

Exactly I couldn't agree more.
I've been wondering for a while why they are pushing 4K so much when it takes so much of the processing power to do so.
The only thing I could think of is that it's a gimmicky marketing tool and that the tv market is in a slump and the industry wants everyone to get new shiny 4K tvs and that's the way to do it. By pushing 4K. Other than that I can't think of anything else. An immersive interactive game trumps a resolution bump any day.

Servbot412961d ago

The characters in Oblivion also look like potatoes.

TacoTaru2961d ago

But Oblivion had phenomenal AI and that is far more interesting than shinier graphics. Continued graphical improvements are evolutionary and do nothing to push games forward in any way other than how they look. If they could improve the AI as much as graphics have been improved we would have revolutionary gameplay. I'd love a game where NPCs actually lived out their lives instead of parroting the same few phrases every time you pass them. I'd like to see difficulty levels based on modified AI so that it wasn't just a difference of hp and damage numbers being altered.

Princess_Pilfer2961d ago

You're complaining about an article that you havn't read? Really?

Also, you're wrong. Development time and money are finite, and the CPU/GPU have to actually track and render all the interactions that are happening, and both have a limited amount of power to spend. Ever wondered why you can destroy the frametate of a TES or Fallout game by causing an explosion in a room full of loose objects? It's because the CPU can't keep up with the tracking of and interactions between all those objects. If your CPU is also trying to send out the draw calls to get the game running at 4k when something like that happens, it hits performance even harder.

septemberindecember2961d ago

This is something I noticed with Horizon: Zero Dawn as well. As visually striking as the game is, it’s incredibly static. Even the NPC’s don’t react when you brandish your weapons and try to hit them.

kevnb2961d ago

almost every sony exclusive is like this.

2961d ago
kevnb2961d ago

It’s the simple truth, I actually enjoy many of them but they lack in interactivity.

G3ng4r2961d ago

It's true. Look at hzd static foilage vs the interactive world of botw. Nintendo made gg look like amateurs with less powerful hardware.

EverydayGuy2961d ago (Edited 2961d ago )

Hopefully stronger CPU will fix that.

_-EDMIX-_2961d ago

The Witcher is like this so I guess that's a Sony game too?

Many games do this simply because it's not part of the game...

Wallstreet372961d ago

Lol botw is a very empty world with boring repetitive enemies. Some of the physics are great but the game suffered tremendously in other areas. Sometimes its like a walking simulator. Give me great bosses, big lush environments and variety of enemies over interactivity any day and thts why i prefer HZD.

_-EDMIX-_2961d ago (Edited 2961d ago )

@Wall- Breath of the wild is basically the biggest Assassin's Creed clone...

I love how suddenly going to "Towers" is now revolutionary the second a Zelda game does it.

In terms of gameplay Horizon zero Dawn absolutely destroys Zelda.

G3ng4r2961d ago

^ Incorrect. Botw is acclaimed partially for its physics which hzd can't compare to because gg is a sony b-team who specializes in little more than pretty graphics. You're aware physics play a vital role in gameplay yeah?

remixx1162960d ago

@kevinb

Im actually having trouble wrapoing my head around your comment, i was just playing gravityrush 2, nier and persona 5 yesterday.

None really pass for console cinematic games so...maybe actually try the ps4 and stop the fanboy shit.

I mean outside of uncharted and tlou nothing really passes for cinematic console games but i doubt your gonna move on your opinion so....

+ Show (7) more repliesLast reply 2960d ago
bluefox7552961d ago

That's how most games are, and even the ones that aren't, like TES/Fallout, handle it really awkwardly in most cases.

kevnb2961d ago

No it’s not how most games are, most games aren’t aaa cinematic console focused games.

AspiringProGenji2961d ago

True. It seems the devs didn’t put much focus on that, but the machine physics are really good and natural. You can play with those physics using the Ropecaster and see how machines react to it naturally. I didn’t care about burning grass ala BotW but maybe they can focus on that for the next game

septemberindecember2961d ago

Yeah, I get that it wasn’t a focus for Horizon, but I think a bit more interactivity in all games would be great.

septemberindecember2961d ago

I’m sorry, but I don’t think arguing with you is worth it. It’s clear what your intentions are; and it’s not to have a civil discussion.

sampsonon2960d ago

@septemberindecember: i just posted my argument with visual facts that prove what I'm saying, so i can understand why you have nothing to say.

Horizon is an alive open world https://www.youtube.com/wat...
Breath Of The Wild is barren https://www.youtube.com/wat...

combat https://www.youtube.com/wat...
combat https://www.youtube.com/wat...

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 2960d ago
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lodossrage23d ago

I don't agree with that. I WISH I could agree with that. But buying habits and customer opinions prove otherwise

We've seen developers in the AAA space try new things and ideas. More often than not, the customers aren't willing to give things a chance, or not enough people buy into the project for it to grow.

Creativity works better in the indie space because the budgets, pressures, and expectations aren't the same.

Scissorman22d ago

it's a nice idea and it worked during the PS2/PS3-era when AAA didn't cost hundreds of millions of dollars. smaller budgets and shorter development time left room for more creativity and more risk. a game didn't need to sell 4 million+ copies to break even. things are different now.

__y2jb22d ago

This is the guy who bragged about crunching his staff and having them work through the night. Crunch culture has lost more talent and done more damage to the industry than any other factor. Screw him.