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Are Publishers Using Lower Capacity Switch Cartridges?

Not all publishers are ready to pay for cartridges that will hold complete versions of their games, even when such options exist.

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shacknews.com
franwex3171d ago

I suspect third party developers would do something like that. Get the cheapest format and pass the storage cost to consumers. They did the same during the n64 days. Most Nintendo games had a battery back up built in while third parties had the player buy a memory card.

indyman77773171d ago (Edited 3171d ago )

Good point they,

Heck they are doing the same on Xbox one for that matter! They are getting the lower capacity blu ray discs and then making you download the rest on a day one patch.

Only difference is most people have not figured it out. Why do games always have a game one patch available before the game goes gold. hmmmm.

All that does is mean you have to download the rest to your hard drive and buy bigger storage. Last time I checked xbox one, and ps4 have the ability to span discs! But we rarely see publishers put games on multi disc instead they announce there will be a day one patch.

nitus103171d ago (Edited 3171d ago )

The OEM cost for a 25GB (single layer) Bluray disk is in the region of one dollar (USD) and about 50% to 80% more for a 50GB (dual-layer) Bluray disk.

Note: The following are eBay (US) prices for the public https://www.ebay.com/b/Verb... manufacturers will pay considerably less.

Most games for the PS4 and XB1 will either fit on a 25GB or 50GB Bluray disk and any additional content such as patches and DLC will have to be downloaded. Even if the game came on Bluray it will always have to be loaded onto your storage device be it hard or solid state disk. There are no games for the PS4 or XB1 that are played from Bluray disk.

Like it or not this same method will be applied to the Nintendo Switch and while it is possible to play a game from the cartridge (ie. MicroSD card) any additional download will have to go to the internal storage since all MicroSD cards for the Switch will be read-only and can not be updated. This is a huge problem since only 26GB of the internal memory of the Switch is usable for games.

The following are games that will require additional download storage.
Doom. http://www.nintendolife.com...

NBA 2K18. http://www.nintendo.com/gam...

Note: The above was from Nintendo's own site.

If you only download Indies or games that are small to begin with and rarely if ever need updates then 26GB of internal storage may not be an issue. Like it or not if you wish to play AAA games then 26G of internal storage is tiny.

Basically, if games like Doom or NBA 2K18 don't sell well then you are going to see AAA developers drop support for the Switch.

BTW. I have no idea about Skyrim (yet) although it will have the three DLC packages and if you require internal storage then there will be a problem. http://www.nintendo.com/gam...

The 10th Rider3171d ago

I think Nintendo is banking on the jump in the amount being produced leading to a decrease in the cost down the line. It's even possible they're hoping for 64gb carts to be available and affordable before the Switch's successor comes out. If the cost and size of the cartridges stagnates it would put a lot of third parties between a rock and a hard place. If the price continues to decrease while the sizes continue to increase it could very well be the superior format in 5 years or so. It'll be interesting to see if the gamble pays off or not.

Theknightofnights3171d ago

I highly doubt that 64GB carts will take that long to be available, honestly. I believe that the 3DS's maximum cart size when it launched was 2GB, but was pushed up to 8GB long before the end of it's life. Hopefully the cost does come down soon though. The lower the cost the better for third parties and customers.

The 10th Rider3171d ago

@Theknightofnights,

Dang, I didn't know the 3DS's cart sizes increased so fast. Either way I was saying both available and affordable. Considering some devs area already staying away from the larger cart sizes due to cost, even if 64gb is available in two years or so it could be another year or two after that before they're affordable for third party devs to use them without worrying about the added costs (compared to Blu-Ray disks).

Microsoft and Sony's next consoles, if they stick with Bluray, likely won't have disks that support much more than 64gb. On top of that most games will probably have 4K textures and games could easily be substantially shrunk for Switch version by simply compressing textures. So as long as 64gb cartridges become a thing the Switch will be fine until the end of its life.

nitus103171d ago

Bluray disks are very cheap in OEM quantities (about a dollar USD for 25G) compared to say a 16GB or 32GB MicroSD card and one very import factor to consider is that hard disk drives have a performance about on par with a MicroSD card and as far as cost per gigabyte there is no contest.

You could even look at solid state disks which can easily be installed internally in the PS4 or externally for both the PS4 and XB1 are still considerably cheaper (cost per gigabyte) than MicroSD cards and on average have five or more times the performance.

Note. No game for the PS4 or XB1 is made to be played directly from the Bluray drive, instead the game, all patches and DLC are installed onto the internal or external storage

BTW. It is not the size of the MicroSD card that is the problem it is the internal storage (about 26GB usable). Take a look at Nintendo's website for Doom and NBA 2K 18 storage requirements or the links I have provided in my earlier posts.

The 10th Rider3170d ago (Edited 3170d ago )

@nitus10,

This article and comment chain isn't even about the internal memory, which is what 90% of your comment is about.

SSDs are cheaper than SD cards, but not substantially. The issue with putting one in the Switch console itself is the size though, as they are substantially larger than the flash storage that the Switch uses. Most phones and tablets use flash storage over SSDs.

Next gen consoles will likely still be using disk drives. Considering disk sizes aren't likely to get much larger, if at all, the disks will still be limited to around 60 or so GB. 4K texture packs will likely be an optional download. Sure since installs are mandatory anyways, they could make it so that extra data has to be downloaded but look at how well that went over with NBA on the Switch. Sure next gen consoles could have SSDs put in and it would be cheaper than adding storage to a Switch via SSD, but if they use Bluray disks again that point will be moot because they have mandatory installs, whereas the Switch doesn't and by then 64 GB cards for Switch games may be available and cheaper, negating the need for installs or added downloads. That's my whole point, Nintendo is probably banking on the size of cartridges going up while the cost goes down, to the point that by the end of the Switch's life their cartridges can hold as much as a Bluray disk without being substantially more expensive. Since the Switch won't need 4K textures an entire 3rd party game would have no problem fitting on the cart.

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LIGATURE3171d ago

Oh,my nintendo😦 you dirty whore 😂

Kosic3171d ago

It's the game cartridge, Nintendo sell them at 1,2,4,8,16 and I believe 32gb in side. As Nintendo know how to compress their games well, they can use the smaller cards (think Mario Ody, is like 5.8gb), so they can sell us a £40 game with using a £4 or so production card.

While games from EA, or Activision may range in a 22gb install, they would have to buy a premium card to be able to port their game onto Nintendo's platform. I recall reading that some of the larger cards can cost close to 90% of the retail price we pay for our games. (being around £32+).

So imagine putting your 44gb game onto the Switch, having to buy a 64gb production card, rights to the platform etc, and it'll cost you £36 to do so. You can then only sell your game for around £40, would it be worth it?

So putting the install files, and an "internet update patch" that'll sit on your SD card, means we as the consumer lose out for space, but the 3rd parties can support Nintendo and still make a profit.

It's a tricky one, because if they don't do this, they won't support Nintendo for long. So we again would lose out on choice of games.

_-EDMIX-_3171d ago

I agree. Good read.

If weaker Hardware was not enough to getting third party to not come over this expensive format definitely is going to keep them away.

indyman77773171d ago

You forgot the 64gb that was available by release of the switch.

Neonridr3170d ago

@EDMIX - pros and cons to cartridges. Load times are so much faster than optical discs. Great news is the format gets cheaper as time goes on. No amount of time is going to speed up a bluray drive.

badz1493170d ago

@Neonridr

pfft...dude, where have you been since 2013? the PS4 and Xbone don't run games off the BD anymore. all data are installed to the HDD now and stop trying to impose that loading time on the PS4 and Xbone are so much worse because they use BD. and the install on the PS4 is blazing fast too. you insert the disc and you'll be playing in like a minute. PS4 and Xbone use the cheaper BD and have bigger AND cheaper internal storage too compared to the Switch.

you can get a 1TB HDD for as low as $50 while the equivalent priced microSD card is only 128GB at the most. and 1TB HDD is included on most models nowadays yet you have to buy that microSD cards for the Switch.

_-EDMIX-_3170d ago

@badz- Very, very good point.

@Neo- What Badz stated.

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Smokingunz3171d ago

Developers are lazy, they don't want to use the time to compress their games like they did in the 360 era, blurry discs spoiled then. Nintendo should lower costs on their cards too as well

_-EDMIX-_3171d ago

Why should any third-party have to go out of their way to radically alter their games simply to support a system? Again I think a lot of you need to realize why Final Fantasy 7 revolutionized gaming on Playstation in clearly not on N64.

You're asking them to spend more money ,change engines, remove features compress their games, downgrade their games to fit a format that doesn't make sense. Mind you in an install base that historically does not even purchase that much third party games for a fact. You know why game developers in regards to AAA more than 99% exist on Playstation PC and Xbox One? They don't have to jump through hoops to make their games work.

Their minimum is reasonable 1.4 teraflops GPU ,8 gigs of RAM, all equipped with hard drives, all equipped with Blu-ray drives etc so they don't have to jump through hoops and do all this stupid crap to support those platforms so why on Earth are you desperately trying to ask them to bend over backwards for a small install base that doesn't even by their games the same way the other install base does?

So let me guess squaresoft should have removed all those features from Final Fantasy 7 and completely gutted the game to make it on N64 to not be "lazy?"

So we're not going to call Nintendo lazy for not getting with the times and actually making a real console with a real media format to support real current generation games? So what do you think they're going to do when PlayStation 5 comes out? Downgrade their games remove features and decide to not make next gen games to fit a format?

I'm sorry but you're asking for Final Fantasy 7 to not exist the way we know it to exist so that way it could fit a unreasonable media format to please Nintendo so what about gamers? If Rockstar comes out and has the next Grand Theft Auto coming out on PlayStation 5 and Xbox 2 and they do something crazy like you could enter every single building but they actually need a specific amount of RAM and hard drive space to achieve this amazing feat you telling me they should completely ignore that ambition in downgrade their game for the switch?

Or would that be lazy?

How dare they require more space for more Innovations /s

3171d ago
The 10th Rider3171d ago (Edited 3171d ago )

Smokinggunz never said they should compress games purely for the Switch versions of games, he just said that developers in general have gotten lazy with compression.

Prince_TFK3171d ago

You are talking as if compression would take thousands of dollar to do.

Neonridr3170d ago

It's a portable too isn't it? What sort of media would you use then EDMIX, I would love to hear your argument here. Let's just throw a full sized bluray drive on the back of the darned thing while we are at it huh? You make me laugh. Or how about a 2TB hard drive slapped on the back of the screen, it should only increase the thickness by at least double.

_-EDMIX-_3170d ago

@Neo,-or how about they actually simply choose to not make it portable in the first place and simply make a set-top console if they want that type of support.

No one put a gun to their heads and told them that this had to be a portable.

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Altovoltage3171d ago (Edited 3171d ago )

Have you ever developed a game to be calling them lazy? Some of them lose time with their families just to meet deadlines or to bring us the best product they can create.

3171d ago
indyman77773171d ago

Thank you, developers are not lazy. Executives are cheap though. They are usually the reason you see a game that is half done. Don't want to spend the time(which=pay money+ more) to make a polished product. I'm a business developer I make 6 figures. Most game developers (not executive level) dont make that much and they work their a** off. More power to them!

The 10th Rider3171d ago

Sometimes developers is used to refer to the developing company as a whole rather than the individual people that are making the game. Still, I wouldn't say developers are are particularly lazy. It's just that with all the deadlines and everything set by publishers a lot of developers obviously aren't going to put compression very high on the list of priorities. Game development is also so large nowadays that compressing a massive game after it's already put together is a huge task to tackle.

3171d ago
nitus103171d ago (Edited 3171d ago )

Have you ever looked at compression algorithms? Do you honestly think that Nintendo has it all over other developers?

The following is an intro on compression algorithm types. https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...

Look at most Nintendo games they are mainly very cartoony in style. A cartoony style is easier to compress than if the style was photorealistic. This is not to say that cartoony is better or worse then photorealism the choice is up to the developers.

Assuming you want lossless compression for your program (eg game) and all associated data then you can choose a compression algorithm that will do just that but you also have to consider the requirements to decompress that data as well so you get to the point where the very act of compressing your data results in the overall performance of your gaming machine being impacted dramatically.

A simple example is to consider the video codecs H264 and H265. Converting an H264 codec file to an H265 codec file will result in savings of 40% to 70%, however, playing that H265 file will result in a significant performance increase for your playback software.

Chevalier3170d ago (Edited 3170d ago )

I don't know about compression so just a question. If the game is more realistic or has more things going on how much would the compression affect the overall size and quality? For example Doom, Skyrim, L.A. Noire, NBA 2K18 etc.

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CrimzonRazor3171d ago

Another dumb move by nintendont

PhoenixUp3171d ago

Anytime Nintendo goes against the grain, expect setbacks like this to happen

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50°

How Cole Young Almost Became Canon in Mortal Kombat

Cole Young almost made the jump from movie newcomer to game canon in Mortal Kombat 1, but a last-minute time crunch shut it down.

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30°

Nintendo has discounted a bunch of its Switch games in new rare sale

A rare first-party Nintendo games sale has just gone live on Amazon with around a dozen of the company's titles discounted.

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nintendoeverything.com
PRIMORDUS25d ago

"Digital Code" Hard pass. I only buy used physical Switch/Switch 2 games off ebay.

60°

Final Fantasy X 25th Anniversary Website Launches With New Nomura Artwork and Merchandise

Square Enix launches Final Fantasy X 25th anniversary site, revealing new Nomura art, books, music releases, and merchandise.

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twistedvoxel.com
-Foxtrot26d ago

Look I know VIII has its issues and all that but how on earth can the do big anniversary events with new artwork and merchandise for VII, IX and X yet VIII got sweet f*** all.

They could have given it something during its 25th anniversary yet all it got was a single Happy Anniversary post on their social media.

solideagle26d ago

they should know that we are OG fans of VIII as it sold truckload as well. not as much as VII or X. I personally didn't like IX but X and VI are my personal fav.

Shadow Hearts 2 covenant is another game I love. I hope one day someone can make remake, I would be delighted

Relientk7725d ago

Final Fantasy VIII is great and you are always the first to defend it in the comments