190°

AMD Ryzen has some performance problems

AMD has finally released their most anticipated processor lineup. Latest tests revealed AMD Ryzen processors have some performance problems.

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techhgeeks.com
ShadowKnight3279d ago

Intel is better than AMD Ryzen 😂

ARESWARLORD3279d ago

No Intel is not better than new AMD chips and this is coming from a guy that owns a 6700 k and a 4770 and my two builds. Amd's new Chips are fantastic once all the bugs are worked out

freshslicepizza3279d ago

better at what, price gouging? yes we all know intel makes higher clock speed cpu's that gamers appreciate but for dollar value we can thank amd. it is also great to see ryzen become competitive again and computers are more than just for gaming.

Lon3wolf3278d ago

Then why didn't PS4/Xbox One use Intel chips? ;)

Ashlen3279d ago (Edited 3279d ago )

The problem is not that the windows scheduler is working improperly it's that it doesn't understand that Ryzen is two four cores tied together. What is happening with some games is that the graphical workload will split into multiple threads and when the threads are split across the clusters it causes problems. But it's not a problem that can't be resolved. Microsoft could still create a scheduling update that keeps certain workloads together. But most likely what will happen is newer games will just be programmed to lock interdependent tasks to a single cluster. AMD has stated that they are already working with developers for upcoming projects.

That said Ryzen still performs fantastically in gaming performing on par with Intel on many games but it seems that mostly the games where it has problems are what gets highlighted most often. And even then the performance gap is only around 10%. And it still outperforms Intel in most productivity related workloads.

Ryzen is a brand new technology nothing has been programmed to work with it. As programming matures around it things will improve.

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

Zarock3278d ago

You obviously don't know what your talking about.

http://www.techspot.com/rev...

Ashlen3278d ago (Edited 3278d ago )

Do you have anything specific to say about what I said that was inaccurate?

You link an article that is basically a bunch of benchmarks.

In the article they say this.

"Fixing SMT support should be a relatively easy first step and it will help improve many of the results."

I said this was a fixable problem and even went into detail explaining what the problem was and how it could be fixed.

They also said this.

"When gaming at 1440p things even out considerably as the GPU becomes a bigger factor in the equation. Here the Ryzen 1800X was just 4% slower than the 6900K and disabling SMT actually put the 1800X on par with the 6600K and 5960X."

And this.

"Based on the data above, Ryzen 7 1800X is on average 12% slower than the Core i7-6900K on gaming titles, which seems in line with what we found originally at 1080p."

So I said there was about a ten percent difference (this average says 12% 12% rounds down 10) between Intel with some games performing better. (based on how they are threaded)

So what I said was exactly what this benchmark average shows.

They also said this.

"No, this doesn't reflect real-life gaming scenarios for a high-end GPU today when you'll likely be gaming at higher resolutions and with a certain level of GPU bottleneck, but it does represent where Ryzen stands in raw gaming performance."

I posted a link that shows in game footage with side by side FPS and Core usage between a Ryzen and 1700k that shows nearly identical performance in real world gaming.

So I again ask what exactly are you basing your assumption that I don't know what I am talking about? Because I am going to tell you flat out I do understand quite well and have been reading many articles related to Ryzen.

So I encourage you to give a more intelligent explanation for my lack of understanding than just one sentence and a link.

Zarock3278d ago (Edited 3278d ago )

"Ryzen still performs fantastically in gaming performing on par with Intel on many games but it seems that mostly the games where it has problems are what gets highlighted most often."

Out of 16 games tested Ryzen still lost, no one Is cherry picking specific games to prove that Ryzen Is slower In gaming. The gap Is even wider with overclocked Intel CPU's.

http://www.gamersnexus.net/...

http://i.imgur.com/g4RIs8P....

You need to realize that this won't be fixed anytime soon If ever at all. AMD dug themselves Into a hole by adopting a brand new technology where no game developer has experience In. It all goes against the (KISS) principle of every programmer In this day and age. Basically they are creating more headaches and problems for everyone around them. New features have to be Introduced gradually In small steps so that It doesn't overwhelm developers.

I apologize for my previous comment, didn't mean to sound harsh.

tyasia03277d ago (Edited 3277d ago )

There are games where the performance is nearly identical and others were it is less than optimal. It all depends on how the game is threaded.

Many experts have all agreed the only time there is a problem is when graphical threads are separated across the core clusters. This is in no way a problem that isn't solvable as many experts have agreed.

It can easily be solved in two ways. Microsoft can create a scheduler profile for Ryzen that keeps similar workload threads on the same core. Example would be to keep graphical workloads on cluster one while moving other things like cpu physics audio and other non-graphical threads on cluster two. Even if Microsoft doesn't create a default profile the game developers can simply program threads to run on specific clusters.

And as for your statement that things need to be taken slowly, there isn't anything that's all that different about Ryzen. This is the same as when multi-cores originally came to market. Single cores had higher frequency and performed better on the games that had been released prior to the early multi-core CPU's but over time software caught up. Software became threaded to support multi-core and then all the faster single core cpu's no longer were able to perform nearly as well as the multi-core processors that they previously out performed.

Several game companies are already working to patch their games to improve Ryzen performance. And AMD has stated they are working with over 300 developers working on future games to help them improve performance on Ryzen.

This processor has been out for a week. give it 3-6 months and we'll know better where things are.

Here are some of the games in which the performance is nearly identical. Which shows that when threaded properly games can have nearly identical performance.

The Division 1080p 7700k 126/78 Ryzen 125/78

Civilization VI 1080p 7700k 79/62 Ryzen 79/53

Mafia III 1080p 7700k 109/98 Ryzen 104/93

For Honor 1080p 7700k 176/136 Ryzen 172/129

Ashlen3277d ago (Edited 3277d ago )

You chose the gamernexus review which is probably the most debated review. If you read up on this review you'll find out that his 1800x was unable to reach full memory clock speeds. If you read his update in the 1700 review which he did after his 1800x he didn't have the memory problem and he got higher scores using that CPU than in the 1800x review.

As for people who use single monitor setups, I'm not going to argue the value of testing at 1080p. I will say that if you take a deeper look at Steam Survey you'll see that the average computer is not the type applicable to the type of person who is buying $400-700 GPU's and $300-500 CPU's.

The average CPU is 2.3-2.9 Ghz with 46% of people using dual core still. The highest average Vram is 1 GB. This shows most people are not using high end hardware. Enthusiasts are much more likely to be using 1440p or 4k.

And on top of that the review shows that in productivity related programs Ryzen at stock performs as much as 40% better than a 7700k overclocked to 5.1 Ghz and that was using a a chip with lower than max memory speeds.

Zarock3277d ago

Ryzen still loses at 1440p gaming, as for 4K It's all GPU bound from there on wards.

As for the windows scheduler Issue, the gaming performance gain from fixing that would be negligible.
There are many other serious Issues with Ryzen such as core latency Issues, and CCX thread jumping that are mainly related to the chips design.

Here educate yourselves both of you. Over and Out.
https://youtu.be/6laL-_hiAK...

Ashlen3277d ago (Edited 3277d ago )

No your wrong, the only problem is... if even you would even call it a problem is the latency between the two clusters.

The thread jumping is an issue with the design but that doesn't make it a flaw. Again it just requires it's own scheduling profile or more specific threading at the program level.

You keep trying to state that this isn't fixable. but I promise you it is. Many people including AMD themselves have stated it can be including in the video you posted.

This video that you link is one I had previously seen (and watched in it's entirety) . If you listened at the given timestamp they are talking about the fact that this can be patched. There disappointment is that it wasn't patched prior to launch not that it can't be fixed.

You talk about the performance gains as negligible but the difference between Intel and AMD at this point is only 10%

And as for 1440p gaming at that resolution the difference even with the current threading issues according the the very first set of 16 game benchmarks you linked is 4%.

Your trying to prove a point while over looking the fact that in many games depending on how they are threaded perform with out problems. If every single game had problems then I might agree. But that is simply not the case.

And even if it isn't fixed (which it will be) the performance of the chip is still fantastic.

Zarock3277d ago (Edited 3277d ago )

"Thread Scheduling
We have investigated reports alleging incorrect thread scheduling on the AMD Ryzen™ processor. Based on our findings, AMD believes that the Windows® 10 thread scheduler is operating properly for “Zen,” and we do not presently believe there is an issue with the scheduler adversely utilizing the logical and physical configurations of the architecture." (Take a hint there Is nothing to fix)

By AMD.
https://community.amd.com/c...

I'm done arguing with you.

Ashlen3277d ago (Edited 3277d ago )

"The problem is not that the windows scheduler is working improperly it's that it doesn't understand that Ryzen is two four cores tied together."

Did you read where I said this in the very first post?

"Going forward, our analysis highlights that there are many applications that already make good use of the cores and threads in Ryzen, and there are other applications that can better utilize the topology and capabilities of our new CPU with some targeted optimizations. These opportunities are already being actively worked via the AMD Ryzen™ dev kit program that has sampled 300+ systems worldwide."

"For the remaining outliers, AMD again sees multiple opportunities within the codebases of specific applications to improve how this software addresses the “Zen” architecture. We have already identified some simple changes that can improve a game’s understanding of the "Zen" core/cache topology, and we intend to provide a status update to the community when they are ready."

And did you read this where they talk about threading optimizations. I.E.ensuring that interdependent threads stay on the same cluster?

This is what I have said in every reply. That optimization is needed. Microsoft task scheduler isn't broken. But it also doesn't know how to handle Ryzen. They could update it. But as I have said the optimization will probably come at the programing level by game developers themselves, by forcing interdependent threads to stay on the same cluster as I stated all through out this discussion.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 3277d ago
bolimekurac3278d ago

amd has impressed me, you cant get a 1700x and a gtx 1080 Ti for less then a 6900k cpu or even a gtx titan on their own, you can get a 1800x for a 100 bucks more. thats impressive for the power that you get. gaming and streaming or any type of multi tasking is on ryzens side and gaming BM will improve as devs code for it, its that simple. it wipes intels ass in many things especially when you break it down by dollar .............

3278d ago
Show all comments (19)
30°

The Unity Asset Store is ditching publishers based in China, Hong Kong, and Macau

Assets from publishers based in China, Hong Kong, and Macau will be delisted from the Unity Asset Store on March 31, 2026.

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discussions.unity.com
120°

The Idea of Microsoft Sunsetting Xbox Is Absolute Nonsense, but It Exposes a Massive Problem

A few days ago, an interview with Seamus Blackley, designer of the original Xbox, sent shockwaves among the community.

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simulationdaily.com
Christopher4d ago

***This whole conspiracy theory (because that’s what this is) is basically entirely based on the idea that everyone involved is lying to us. ***

C'mon now. It's an opinion. Just like your opinion here. And it's from an industry professional who does have more knowledge than we do on how these things work and access to people inside the industry.

I'm not saying he's right, but you spend all this time arguing his stance and why his words are illogical, but then you go and make this sort of statement? Hypocritical.

SimulationDaily4d ago (Edited 4d ago )

It's from someone who has not worked at Microsoft or anywhere close to Microsoft or even in the gaming industry for over 20 years, and has worked at Microsoft for less than 4 years in total. He doesn't know a single one of the people involed and his experience of the topic is so diluted that he has no more authority than any rando on Reddit.

And almost none of the articles citing this silliness do the bare minimum due diligence to mention that essential context.

When you present a ludicrous hot take from someone who is nowhere near a position to know a thing about what Microsoft is doing today, if you think that readers aren't entitled to be made aware of that, we'll have to agree to disagree.

The truth is that a lot of the media outlets in this industry have chucked the bare minimum of professional reporting ethics into the recycle bin in the name of making a quick buck, and this is a pretty obvious example. This has been going on for years, it sucks, and it's only getting worse.

Misleading information for clicks may not offend you, and that's fine, but as someone who has dedicated the past 25 years of his life to informing people, it certainly offends me, and I see no reason not to express that position. Firmly.

Christopher4d ago

***Misleading information for clicks may not offend you, and that's fine***

You really need to stop with the logical fallacies. There's nothing there that says my opinion on the original matter other than calling out your hypocrisy of doing the same thing you complain they're doing. Not even a part of the conversation.

Also, he didn't do it for clicks, journalists turned it into clicks.

SimulationDaily4d ago (Edited 4d ago )

@Christopher: his opinion is not the problem, besides the fact that it's nonsensical and based on nothing.
The problem is that it has been presented as a take from someone with authority by professionally bankrupt media that fills up the fact that they have nothing relevant to say with fluff for clicks, regardless of the fact that such a presentation ends up misinforming people.

ABizzel13d ago

Regardless of everyone’s opinion, one thing that’s never good is to be in the comments arguing with people on their opinion, about your opinion, especially in a place where you have no monetization.

1Victor3d ago

@simulation
The way I see it you’re flipping the crumpet and assuming that because he hasn’t been a part of Microsoft for so long he don’t have contacts inside or he is exaggerating what we all can see in Xbox history of lies, deception and half truths since the 360 era.
Its very disingenuous of you to come and complain about his opinion when the patterns has been clear for way over a decade.
Microsoft is a corporation here if they don’t dominate they terminate the product you sound old enough to to remember Zune and windows phones you if not ask bing what happened to them.

ApocalypseShadow3d ago

'Xbox Is Being Sunsetted' — Seamus Blackley, One of the Creators of Xbox, Thinks Recent Shakeup Spells the End for Microsoft's Gaming Business

It clearly says that Blackley THINKS...has an, OPINION, on the matter.

I think his opinion hurt you enough that you had to create an N4G article to try and discredit his OPNION. The fact that someone that hasn't been in the industry for years, carries more weight than someone that only has one comment on his video, yours. And, has less than 2 thousand subscribers. What makes your opinion better than his? He's someone that actually worked at Microsoft. What's your background besides MS Flight Simulator and FFXIV videos?

Here's the deal, Microsoft spent upwards of 100 Billion or more to try to beat Sony. They tried to buy industry pillars like Nintendo and Sega who said no. They pretty much created a service to devalue games to try and control the market and failed. They never won a generation. Most powerful system in the world or not. They couldn't do it by undercutting Sony with their Achilles heal of Series S. Nothing the 3 Trillion company could do but end up releasing their games on Nintendo and Sony's platforms. Their competitor's systems. The amount of coping in your defense of the current Microsoft heads is just hilarious. It is true that not having a gaming background means nothing if you can turn a business around. But there's nothing to turn. Outside hardened Xbox fans, there's no reason that any gamer needs an Xbox when the games are releasing on competitor's platforms. Nadella isn't stupid to try and go back to exclusives that Xbox fans don't buy enough of to keep the developers they bought afloat. Heads have to roll. Just like the Sega days of heading into a new direction.

Read the writing on the wall. Xbox as you know it is dying and dead. No game sales numbers. No console sales numbers. Nothing. Nothing will change their transition to third party other than an outright ban of Japanese game consoles. But the backlash would be so severe, that any new Xbox would be boycotted everywhere. If any new system is released, it would be in name only or the fans that are left. A PC with Microsoft's name on it like the Ally and the Quest headset. but nothing more than that. A platform that has never been profitable. A game service that has never been profitable. That was once almost canned by Nadella before.

Land that MS Flight Simulator plane and leave the clouds. It's over for them. She's there only to help their transition. No system they sell will bring them back when they never were leaders to begin with in the industry. I came out of N4G retirement just to say this. Your opinion carries no weight and is unsupported by the facts of where Microsoft's position is currently.

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lodossrage4d ago (Edited 4d ago )

@SimulationDaily

He may not be in the xbox loop anymore. But he'd surely have a better idea than any of us random people commenting would.

And how to WE know he doesn't know any single person involved? It's not like we can see the man's contact list or know his life personally. And all he did was give his opinion. He never said it was fact. An opinion is not misleading info. If he tried to pass off his opinion as FACT, then you'd have something. But that didn't happen.

We can't be mad about someone coming to the man for an interview answering a question he was asked

SimulationDaily4d ago (Edited 4d ago )

He's not in *any* loop, and he has not been for 2 decades.
How do we know? His responses tell us that. Unless you're unable to read between the lines, you can easily see that he's spitballing without any direct knowledge. The fact that he completely ignores the presence of Matt Booty tells us that he didn't even really read the news, let alone have any real knowledge about it.

Who in the world told you that an opinion can't be misleading information? Of course it can be, when it's wrongly presented as the view of someone with authority on a topic, without being contextualized, which is exactly what happened here.

If you don't know a thing about a situation and someone asks to interview you on it, you can say no.

lodossrage4d ago

His response doesn't tell us who he does/ doesn't know regardless of how long he was away from Microsoft. Again, we don't know this man's personal life or professional contacts to speak on such.

And who in the world told me an opinion can't be misleading info, living my life all these years tells me that. If you're presenting an opinion that should tell you it's not fact. No rational thinking person will sit here and misconstrue the two.

And again, he was asked a question. He never presented himself as an authority, he openly admits he hasn't been there in forever. What more context does he need when he already told us he hasn't been there in so long? Nor has he acted like is opinion is fact.

Now can he say "no" or "no comment" when asked a question? Sure he can, but he doesn't HAVE to. He can offer up his opinion the same way we all do here.

And how can you say he's doing this for clicks? He's the interviewee, not the interviewer or site owner. You have to realize with the video you made you can be accused of the same thing you wrongly pointed the finger at him for.

And for the record, since I know how this site is, I'll say this now. No, this isn't an attack on you. I actually like having convos like this that aren't troll based.

SimulationDaily4d ago (Edited 4d ago )

His response is incredibly vague and drifts into the factually incorrect, for example, when he says "It would have been shocking if they had somebody in there in a meaningful role who was passionate about games, passionate about the creator-driven business of games."
Matt Booty is the second-in-command, which is definitely a "meaningful role," and he's very obviously passionate about games and the creator-driver business of games. As a matter of fact, much more (and with much more relevance) than Blackley himself, who dropped the industry and went to do something else 25 years ago.

No one said HE did it for clicks, although all these "former X" usually do this kind of stuff to appear somewhat relevant when they have not been relevant for a long, long time.

The site that interviewed him and the sites/influencers who presented his opinion with no context as authoritative did it for clicks, because they had no access to any the people even remotely involved, and scraped the bottom of the barrel for something to fill the quota and generate some clicks, and they absolutely misled a ton of people into believing that what he says has some merit.

The "massive problem" isn't that he has an opinion. Opinions like his are a dime a dozen. Is that today's gaming press will fill the air with white noise with zero merit, disingenuously painting it as relevant, regardless of whether their readers are misled into believing something that does not exist.

blacktiger3d ago

First of all I did not watch the video but as far as conspiracy theory goes. Here is my take.

The whole idea for everyone to lie to us is about not owning and be happy. But here is the thing why is it so important for everyone to not own and be happy. What does the elite gain whether we own or not. I understand we not owning cars rather rent is what they want.

But why mess around with video games? I tell you why.
Because they don't want to sell "GPU"
GPU is the main problem. GPU is everything! From 3d printing your house to Mining Bitcoin. Not to mention it's the future that can cripple future government.

Profchaos3d ago (Edited 3d ago )

Blackley is the father of Xbox if anyone wants to see it's success it's Blackley

Yet he doesn't think it's long for this world simple as that

I'm more inclined to believe we've been lied to because Xbox has a history of lies and half truths

Stopac3d ago

@SimulationDaily its not a good look for the author of an article to go to the comment section to argue commentors.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 3d ago
4d ago
Vits4d ago

Look, I understand the indignation about how the media is talking about this interview. I completely agree on that front. That said, personally, I don’t think Blackley is wrong. Not because he’s a former Xbox executive, but because what he described is something we see time and time again in the corporate world.

If you’ve ever worked in this kind of environment, the sequence of a head leaving, obvious substitute leaving, and then a much younger, completely unrelated executive stepping in feels like déjà vu. Every time we see this pattern, it’s usually because the company is looking for a “shake-up” in a business unit, which often just means restructuring. And restructuring usually means layoffs and shutting things down.

That said, I don’t think Xbox as a brand is going to vanish. What I think is more likely is that the division will be significantly reduced and absorbed into another part of the company.

SimulationDaily4d ago (Edited 4d ago )

Glad you understand my view on the press. It's good that at least someone here does.
That being said, placing Matt Booty as Sharma's vice conflicts with that view. Hiring a young CEO with a background of success and supporting them with a veteran vice president is a completely different scenario then one you describe.
The sole idea that Microsoft would be willing to throw away circa 8% of its revenue because of AI is pretty ridiculous.
And if you listen to the reports, you'll know that Sarah Bond was far from the obvious substitute for Phil Spencer.

Vits4d ago

It’s actually the opposite. If they weren’t planning to completely bulldoze the place, then Sharma would be completely alone with an entirely new leadership team, at their mission would be to turn that ship into something else, but keeping the unit itself. The fact that she got Booty as a second hand, instead of a completely new second hand, tells me that they need someone with "experience" to smooth things over while she bulldozes everything.

And honestly, people would be surprised by how often companies choose to “lose” revenue when they realize they can save the same amount or more by simply exiting or reshaping a business line. And that is before AI, that just promise to do anything and it's currently Microsoft focus.

But time will tell. Let’s revisit this in a couple of years and we will see what actually happened. Unfortunately, and I truly mean that, because I don’t want to be right about this, I’ve seen this pattern play out too many times not to believe I’ll end up being right in the end.

SimulationDaily4d ago (Edited 4d ago )

Absolutely, let's reconvene in a couple of years. I have absolutely zero doubt about being right. Xbox will still be there, likely bigger than it is now.

"Bulldozing" doesn't fit today's Microsoft's MO at all, nor that of 99% of companies. Companies may choose to lose revenue, but that happens on dead weight businesses, which gaming is not.

And even when they do, they don't park a very successful young executive with a spotless career like Asha Sharma on a business they want to drop. Not only is it massively counterproductive for the company, but she'd likely quit, because she has the resume to get a job anywhere that would give her a business she can lead to success, as she has done with literally everything she has touched in the past decade.

Would I rather see a gamer at the top? Sure, but there's zero doubt that Asha Sharma is an extremely capable exec. Her resume proves it, and you don't waste extremely capable executives doing the palliative care doctor thing.

gold_drake4d ago (Edited 4d ago )

i mean, the leadership was changed out rather swiftly, with someone who has no odea of the business the former had atleast some know-how.

i think they are slowly trying to find something else they can make money off of, and xbox might just be the thing thats costing them more than they think its worth.

that's business. unfortunately

SimulationDaily4d ago

Leadership was changed to someone who has plenty of ideas (and plenty of success under her belt) about *business*, supported by someone who has one of the most extensive careers in the gaming industry.

You don't waste a very successful young executive (who Asha Sharma is; her career is spotless) to babysit a business you want to spin down. This is how business works.

ocelot073d ago (Edited 3d ago )

Question - it's obvious the way the Xbox division hasn't performed well for Microsoft for a long time. The hardware sales has been abysmal compared to their only 2 competitors Sony PlayStation and Nintendo Switch.

I agree with you. You don't put someone like her into a position to babysit a business you want to spin down.

But is sunsetting Xbox hardware really spinning down the business? What if she transforms Microsoft Gaming into the number one game developers/publisher's? Bigger than EA and Ubisoft. Microsoft gaming make plenty games each year for every available console, PC, Handheld PC as well as mobile users via cloud.

GotGame8183d ago

Yeah, not worried about it! Microsoft said it's going with PC Architecture next gen! Hopefully Steam ready! Also, hopping it is upgradable, like Sega and Nintendo were 3 decades ago.

No need for a Pro version. Upgrade memory, exchange/add a board. Buying a mid Gen console upgrade last Gen, you could instantly tell the difference. The majority of current gen games optimized for PRO are great, but they certainly don't make me want to Rush out and buy one. I am happy with my PS5.

It brings me to ask, why so many 5 Pro/Vs Switch 2 comparisons? Seems kinda strange.

Show all comments (29)
40°

Don't wait two years like me, you need Bazzite on your Asus ROG Ally right now

Pocket Tactics writes: "I finally made the move to install Bazzite on my ROG Ally recently, and I can't imagine playing this Steam Deck rival without it going forward."

Read Full Story >>
pockettactics.com