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An upgradable Xbox One? Think this one through, Microsoft

Despite what it says, the rules of the PC market won't fly on console.

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arstechnica.com
rmw2hot873745d ago

I'm actually looking forward to upgrading my XboxOne whenever it becomes available.

Overload3745d ago ShowReplies(12)
rainslacker3745d ago

I don't know if this is a plan that they have for the X1, or something for their future consoles. There really is nothing on the X1 which would lend itself to allowing for any kind of upgrade beyond the hard drive.

The only exception would be if they go the route of a full model upgrade like what you see in phones, where each release is just a more powerful version of it's predecessor.

Seems this is a rather newish idea at MS for consoles, so it may take a while, although some of the forward/backward compatible aspects of it are certainly doable if it's meant for a next gen thing.

TheCommentator3745d ago (Edited 3745d ago )

I mentioned it elsewhere here today, but I remember when rumors of a dual GPU were tossed around before the console's launch. Some people still haven't let that secret sauce go, lol. Interestingly, however, is the fact that the XDK leak shows that the XB1 supports XDMA. Do you think it's possible that MS planned for the XB1 to evolve over time by being upgradable? Why else would the XB1 need to support XDMA since it only has one internal GPU? Why would the XB1 have the bandwidth to output 4k/60 if PS4 can barely manage 1080/30 in most cases and it's more powerful?

It seems there's a lot of anecdotal evidence that suggests an external GPU may come alongside a hardware revision which includes the tech natively. What are your thoughts, Rain?

Cryptcuzz3745d ago

I think it is going to be where they release another version (Xbox One S if you will) with upgraded spec's, but yet be able to still play the current games released and developers would be able to release games that take advantage of the beefier spec's.

So a scenario could be where the current Xbox One playing games in medium settings, whereas the new version would be able to play games in the high or ultra settings.

It was mentioned in another article that Sony (awhile back) mentioned of a similar idea as well.

If one thinks about it, with both being X86, devs can make their game scalable and be able to work with both versions quite easily.

With Nintendo NX releasing sometime 2016-2017, they can actually pull this off around the same time if they ensure current owners are not shut out of new games.

Where all future games in the near future would be scalable to work with the current systems, with just the newer version running with better graphical fidelity. Like how smartphones have been doing with older/newer versions of their devices being to do just that.

rainslacker3745d ago (Edited 3745d ago )

" is the fact that the XDK leak shows that the XB1 supports XDMA. Do you think it's possible that MS planned for the XB1 to evolve over time by being upgradable? "

It's possible. I can't speak definitively on it without looking it up and seeing to what extent it supports such things. At best right now, if I had to give a synopsis, I can say that it might be a byproduct of the architecture being used, as XDMA is about memory access across multiple GPU's, however that doesn't mean that that is it's only purpose(as in it could be used for other devices besides GPU's or even just be better for utilizing multi-core GPUS)....again will have to look up specifics and don't have access to the technical documents at the moment. I'll try to look into it tomorrow, and see what I can find, but can't make any promises the information will be enough to posit a strong theory.

Edit: An interesting thing about XFire, and how XDMA works is that it uses a kind of virtualization of the video cards to allow it to look like a single entity. In theory, it means that any other processor in the system could be delegated as a GPU..such as a core on the CPU. Since DX doesn't require GPU's to be equal, you could get a bit of a boost where you need it on the graphics side. This is a similar thing to how CELL was meant to work...although in that, it was more dynamic and the cores were suited to such tasks more than a CPU would be.

Most of my comment is based around the fact that the X1 doesn't have any means that I can tell to allow for the kinds of upgrades to the APU or bridges within the console itself. Memory of sorts may be possible through USB, but it wouldn't be as effective as the kinds of upgrades were talking about, and more akin to a virtual memory...which could be better done on the hard drive.

External GPU's wouldn't be sufficient for use through USB(the only possible external connection I can find), although interestingly, would actually work better than a cloud solution and AMD does have some external GPU stuff going on right now.

@Cryptcuzz

That solution seems to make the most sense assuming that this upgrade path happens within this generation. The "S Model" example could be released with an upgrade path solution which would add in the ability to do modular updates however.

Scalability is likely to be the solution on the dev side, and is basically how it works on PC...so that is also the most logical way to think of how it will work...as it will just be preset settings for particular hardware.

GameNameFame3745d ago (Edited 3745d ago )

Lol. why not buy PC?

I love how xbox fanboys always said they never wanted PC because they like locked in hardware with closed loop. Or that it is more efficient due to fixed spec.

Now that Xbox gets PC benefits that x1 fans claimed to hate, it is best thing ever?

If you like PC feature so much, why not get PC?lol

Griever3745d ago (Edited 3745d ago )

As the article points out, upgradeable consoles will not work. The biggest feature of consoles is a single fixed hardware whether you buy today or 5 years later. All games run equally on any console unit. Releasing upgradeable consoles will only create confusion and fragmentation in the gaming industry.

Customers will be divided into 2 or 3 or even more Xbox consoles. If other mnaufacturers join then it could mean upto 6 or 9 different consoles! The games will not run the same on all units and the ones with older consoles will feel foced to upgrade leading to dissatisfaction and dissonance. Developers will have to keep in mind the various console configurations and code for all them. This will mean that they will not be able to use a single hardware to the max like before.

People who use mobile phones as an arguement and proof of concept have to consider that consoles are just an entertainment box unlike a mobile phone. People buy mobile phones every year or couple of years because of three reasons. First, they are mini computing devices that can help you with many tasks while on the go. Second they have become status symbols and accesories that people proudly show to others. Third, they can be bought at contracts for subsidized prices from network operators.

On the other hand, consoles are just entertainment boxes that people can easily live without if they cost too much to enjoy. They are not sold on contracts or installments and people will not pay $400-$700 or even more every couple of years just to buy a newer model. Those who want upgradeable and latest hardware can just game on PC right now.

I dont understand what exactly this upgradeable console concept is bringing to the table which PC is not doing already. It essentially turns consoles in to branded gaming PCs. Why not just play on a PC??

TheCommentator3745d ago

Thanks for the insight, Rain. It makes sense that XDMA could be used to turn a CPU core into another GPU of sorts if the demand calls for it. Running virtual machine code would help to "balance" the workload, a term I'd heard being tossed around a lot when the designers talked about the decisions made for the XB1 hardware. It's looking to be an interesting year for gamers, with several big announcements coming from MS and the launch of VR as well!

n4rc3745d ago

I havent cracked my case open but I'm going to assume you won't find anything easy to swap, that would be the key factor I believe... If they planned for this, it would be braindead simple to swap out the apu

I can see it happening and think its a great idea.. People using the PC argument are forgetting 2 or 3 subsets of hardware are fairly easy to manage, its not like the limitless options for PC.. But it will need a new x1 model imo

rainslacker3745d ago

No, the current design has no swappable parts. The APU and memory are all hard soldered onto the mainboard, and there is nothing modular about it like you'd see in a PC box. If it has a modular design in the future it will have things like you'd see with the 360 hard drive, where you could remove the old and insert the new, or like what you had with some of the older generations where they had some sort of expansion port like with the Sega Genesis to put in the Sega CD. The latter would be more beneficial for GPU's, as it would allow for using XFire, thus increasing GPU power more than a simple swap. There is no way they would want people having to open the case, even if you could swap the internal components like in a PC.

GameNameFame3745d ago (Edited 3745d ago )

@n4rc

Except they sell PC already assembled and changing gpu out is 10 min activity tops.

So why would you choose xbox over pc?

If you want pc benefit, getting pc is solution

n4rc3744d ago

Because its not even remotely the same thing?

A PC game needs to run on thousands of combinations of hardware.. Handling 2 sets of hardware is simple especially when done exactly how they want it.. Games can still be heavily optimized for a set of hardware when they know exactly what you have

You still won't be dealing with 3rd parties releasing new hardware every 6 weeks or bad drivers etc..

+ Show (7) more repliesLast reply 3744d ago
Dabigsiebowski3745d ago

You are ready to blow your wad on another xbox just after 2 years of the one? With that money you could have bought an actual pc instead of an extremely watered down version of that. And you brush off the PS4 as if it's mediocre and frankly that's fine but there are clear better alternatives than the Xbox these days especially when you consider value.

Xbox has to be better than PC if they want to succeed. And I'm not talking about hardware...just look at the PS4. Now thats a prime example of money well spent on a console that is very consistent with performance and first/third party exclusives.

I'm absolutely pissed I even spent 350 dollars on my x1. Halo was broke for literally half a year and it literally rendered my 3 month subscription to gold useless. I've never been so insulted especially coming off a great console like the 360. I've played plenty of broken games this gen but nothing came close to that financial/ waste of time nightmare I had.

And now a new or "upgraded" console is nothing more than a sick joke honestly. Should have got it right the first time. No one should have to "upgrade" because of their failures.

donthate3745d ago

The idea is that after 2-years, you still can keep your existing Xbox One and play the games released. When you are ready to move up to the latest and greatest, all your current game will look even better.

The key here is you decide, because you now have options!

It is no longer a single console that has had static hardware that is stale for the last half a decade.

Christopher3745d ago

donthate, your old games will look the same, just possibly perform better on new hardware.

Only on new games once the system is released might they improve otherwise. It will also require putting assets for multiple builds on the same disk.

343_Guilty_Spark3745d ago

Yes Let me blow my wad how and when I choose. People upgrade phones tablets and everything else.

Christopher3745d ago

***Yes Let me blow my wad how and when I choose. People upgrade phones tablets and everything else.***

In theory, fine. Reality is that much like new console generations or new graphics cards, there will be a push to upgrade or be left behind as well as using new processes that won't work on older hardware.

It's all speculation right now, but I'm not into a console version of my PC or creating a much shorter console cycle. Maybe it will turn out not so bad, but I see just as much potential issues with this as I do potential good. It really depends on implementation and control on the part of MS.

SniperControl3745d ago

@donthate

"When you are ready to move up to the latest and greatest, all your current game will look even better"

No they wont, you may have a better resolution or framerate, but essentially the game will still have the same textures as before.

garrettbobbyferguson3745d ago

@donthate

Nintendo does this already, such an example is with the N3DS. Certain games are exclusive to it. Older games are the same but run better.

donthate3745d ago

To everyone thinking it will only run better. That is based on the assumption that the developer isn't already preparing their game for the next console or that you might be behind the most recent console refresh.

It also doesn't exclude that developers will allow you to tweak a few settings yourself on consoles. I think The Division is doing something like that already on consoles:

https://www.vg247.com/2016/...

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 3745d ago
rmw2hot873745d ago ShowReplies(2)
wellard3745d ago

I think it's a good idea but I am concerned that the upgrades would end up out lasting the actual console. I love gaming and I use my consoles all the time and they all eventually go on me (ps1,2,3 and 360) finally gave up after a generation of use. However A console that could keep up with top end graphics and gameplay, I'll always say yes. I'm a complete sucker for that.

Artemidorus3745d ago

Why so you can spend even more money? These consoles from new should of been future proof and it's clear they are not.

blawren43745d ago

Exactly, the whole point of buying a console is that games will run for the duration of the generation the same as everyone elses.

Dabigsiebowski3745d ago

Well Sony seems to be the only one who built a console to last and I don't see them going this route as it's not their style.

nitus103745d ago

Future proofing a PC means chip-set compatibility over an acceptable period of time. Changing the chip-set means a change in most components especially the motherboard.

Look at any desktop motherboard and you will see a socket for the CPU and slot connectors for memory, graphics card(s) ... etc, in addition you will see a mixture of sockets and connectors for power, storage and other peripherals. Basically having this type of layout allows for upgrades.

Laptops and some tablets do allow limited upgrading such as memory and storage but rarely the processor.

Look at the teardown of both the PS4 and the XB1 and see if there is any upgrade possibility of basic components such as memory, GPU and CPU. I will save you the trouble, there isn't any unless you desolder and then resolder the replacements and that is not something a non technical person should be doing.

The only user replaceable component on he PS4 is the storage device. On the XB1 you can change the storage however you will void your warranty.

For Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony to allow for any type of upgrade-ability means a motherboard change (has not happened - yet) or the requirement for the console owner to bring their console to an authorised upgrade agent and pay accordingly.

CaptainFaisal3745d ago

Same here, i actually think its a good idea. Its obviously optional so no need for people to fuss! You should only start complaining if in a few years some games require you to have an upgraded Xbox. But Phil has your backs dont worry, he is a gamer and wants the best for all :)

iTechHeads3745d ago

Xbox One isn't upgradeable. It's not built that way.
I think a iPad-like model is more realistic where you see new and more powerful models released about every year or so.

n4rc3745d ago

I'd agree, I highly doubt it is..

But they always do a mid gen revision or slim if you will.. Could be introduced then

XanderZane3745d ago

True, but we all know Microsoft is working on an XB1 Slim model and who knows what will be in that system. I don't know about anyone else on here, but I actually do own an original XBox 360 & PS3, as well as the 360 Slim and PS3 Slim. I did this because the Slim models were better, smaller and durable and stable then the original systems. I wouldn't be surprised is Microsoft released a Slim XB1 with some additional hardware in it.

majedx93745d ago

do you remember the 360 HD DVD.

Black0ut3745d ago (Edited 3745d ago )

Remember the power glove? The Move? Even the Kinect on Xbox One?

I can bring up totally irrelevant points as well.

Volkama3744d ago

Pepperidge Farm remembers.

Domovoi0ng3745d ago

What an amazing use of your money.

ChuckTheIceMan3745d ago (Edited 3745d ago )

I have both systems. There are huge differences, more than just a small amount of horsepower. Microsoft really knows what they are doing with the Xbox OS and the whole gaming ecosystem. Even things like this week on Xbox with majornelson or the Xbox preview program are just awesome. Along with 360 backwards compatible developing moreso all the time and soon we are getting universal Windows 10 apps! Sony has this great hardware platform, like they hit the absolute sweet spot where price and performance meet, but they have this bland, boring and extremely laggy OS. The other thing is the controller on ps4. The DS4 is a great improvement over the ds3 which was just absolutely horrible! But the ds4 is really not great. Non removable and very small battery. A useless touchpad which didn't really bother me but why is it there at all? It serves no real purpose other that being an oversized button. And the LED light... Seriously why can't I turn that off? It was intended for motion tracking but we are two years in and there are no games that utilize it. The same can also be said for the kinect of course but at least the voice commands make it useful. It looks like Sony has placed all its eggs in the vr basket at this point and I really don't think that's going to work for them. The price will put it out of reach for most, myself included. In my opinion VR is a console generation away. VR really needs to run at 120fps+ and should have 4k resolution. That's just not going to be possible on current hardware. And the other worry for me is that Sony as a corporation is in serious financial trouble. They may not even be a company in 10 years or less.

One thing I don't really care for is Microsoft's move from Xbox to focusing on Windows 10 for gaming. It's both exciting and scary. I just don't know what their endgame is. There a reason that console gaming has advantages over PC gaming, we give up graphics to have a closed system that reduces the instances of hacking and cheats.

Anarki3745d ago

Oh yeah I remember the last big idea Microsoft had that certainly didn't fall flat on their face.

DigitallyAfflicted3744d ago

What happen with The Power of The Cloud????

rmw2hot873744d ago

We'll see when Crackdown 3 releases

Volkama3744d ago

That whole concept is already totally disconnected from the hardware, so it fits into this whole idea very comfortably.

jerethdagryphon3744d ago

http://www.anandtech.com/sh...

An examplecof how hard costly and fiddly the modular route would be

Further if they did develop drop in boxes and a modular mainboard connection unless those boards were completly different to pc designs (which given the rest of the system they couldnt be) and priced to match pc components pc user might buy the cheaper xbox branded and. Hack them in to there pcs

I just dont see how they could do it affordably

tee_bag2423744d ago (Edited 3744d ago )

Same here. I hate playing games at 30fps - so give me the OPTION to spend my way to 60fps if I so please. To each their own.
This is fantastic news. Plus future BC.

AnubisG3744d ago

There is such a gaming device you can upgrade yourself whenever you need. It's called a PC. If you want to constantly upgrade than buy a PC and go wild. Leave consoles to be consoles.

rmw2hot873744d ago

Nope I'm good u do that.

tee_bag2423744d ago (Edited 3744d ago )

I agreed with you but the last part I actually disagree with. I enjoy consoles, but I enjoy 60fps too. Why deny people that ability?
You could argue "an even playing field" in competitive multi-player but a simple match filter would fix that. Besides that it's never truly and even playing field since people with lower ping times have an advantage. Some people still have 720p TVs.. Etc.

Anyway, I'm pretty impressed most people are having a mature discussion about this. Pretty rare on N4G.

The_BlackHeart__3744d ago

Why is people getting so confused about this?

The XB1 was not planned as an upgrade-able console, you do believe Microsoft will advise people to void the warranty of their consoles and then hope the machine works after that? Think about the XB1 as a laptop, yes you can change the parts, but chances are 9/10 people will damage the device.

kazuma563744d ago

Don't be naive, the xbox one will NOT be upgradable.
Microsoft will probably make different kind of "xbox one/windows machines" in the future, with hardware becoming more and more powerful. But all this xbox will natively have a total compatibility with xbox one games. Only the graphics will be different. It's easy to imagine a 4k xbox/w10 machine, for exemple

CartBlanche3744d ago

So what you actually want is a PC.
Don't you have one of those already?? Upgrade it, buy the PC version of all the Xbox games that will now be on PC. Problem solved!!

CartBlanche3744d ago (Edited 3744d ago )

Double post :(

+ Show (18) more repliesLast reply 3744d ago
SniperControl3745d ago (Edited 3745d ago )

The problem with upgradable consoles is that your falling into the realms of building your own PC, so whats the point?

Those upgrades wont be by any means cheap, as we all know MS will have manufacturing rights on all upgrades, as witnessed from the 360 days, those HDD's and HD-DVD's were horrendously overpriced.

That money spent on console parts could buy you a decent spec PC.

Also, it will be a massive undertaking on devs who will have to optimise a new game for multiple SKU's, costing more money and more man hours and longer development times.

Consoles are a closed environment for a reason.

SpeakTruthAlways3745d ago (Edited 3745d ago )

That is what I am not getting, I mean why not get a pc then?

Upgradable
Free online
Full of options
Great peripheral support
All xbox exclusives are available
Whole pc library of thousands upon thousands of games

Morgue3745d ago (Edited 3745d ago )

I don't even own a PC but I'm curious too know if you would be able to MOD those games or would they have some sort of block on them? The X1 games like Quantum Break or whatever.

SpeakTruthAlways3745d ago

@above

I think games bought through windows 10 store don't support modding yet, someone correct me If I am wrong.

SniperControl3745d ago (Edited 3745d ago )

@SpeakTruthAlways

Your right.

Games bought on win10 store dont support anything YET, as of now, buying a exclusive on the PC store is a very restrictive experience which MS desperately need to sort out ASAP.

No SLI, aLways on V-Sync, no modding to name a few.

starchild3745d ago (Edited 3745d ago )

I'm all for PC gaming, but so long as console makers continue to hold exclusives hostage forcing me to buy their consoles if I want to play those games I would much prefer to be able to upgrade my consoles to get good framerates and image quality.

It doesn't have to be nearly as complex as some of you are making it out to be. It all depends on how they implement it.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 3745d ago
OB1Biker3745d ago

Genuine question. Is it what Ms is trying to do though, progressively introducing xB2 that is actually a PC?

rainslacker3745d ago

MS is trying to make it more like the mobile market, where upgrades happen routinely, and the software is compatible across generations/levels of hardware. Obviously, as time goes on, newer stuff won't work on the older models, but given the nature of today's computers, this will likely take a while, and attrition will remove most of the older stuff from the market so by the time the old stuff is no longer supported, it won't have as much effect on people.

How it actually works, or how well it's adopted by the consumer and developers remains to be seen, and it's highly dependent on MS implementation for achieving the ideal they set forth to accomplish.

Haru3744d ago

Baiscally what rainslacker said, they want to suck more money out from us forcing us to upgarde our hardware yearly or every few years that idea sounds horrible because of so many different aspects, but I don't really care as a main PS4 player I hope Sony doesn't follow them or else I'll just switch to PC but I really hope that doesn't happen because I hate gaming on pc :(

gangsta_red3745d ago

"it will be a massive undertaking on devs who will have to optimise a new game for multiple SKU's, costing more money and more man hours and longer development times."

This is why MS is trying to unify their Win 10/Xbox ecosytem. That if a dev makes a game using DX12 it will work across the board on all Win10 platforms no matter what.

This means a dev can make one game and no matter if a user has a high end PC or a low end Xbox the gamer can play that game regardless. One will have better graphics the other will be good enough. Design, gameplay and everything else will still be the same.

And some of you need to start thinking outside the box in terms of how this upgrade could be pulled off with a console. MS might be in the lab right now coming up with simple ways for a user to change out specific parts to a console. Ways that are so simple that Joe Consumer off the street could do it with his eyes close. MS has already made it simple to just plug in an external HDD and the Xbox One does the rest, it could be just like that. Pop open the case, take a piece out, plug in the new piece, put the top on and turn on and game.

http://www.express.co.uk/li...

This is just an example of how it could work. As you can see there are a lot of companies thinking about doing the same.

SniperControl3745d ago (Edited 3745d ago )

Not talking about cross platform ecosystem, i talking about actual in game assets, dx12 isnt going to magically add lod or the right amount of anti aliasing or magically generate higher textures for a higher spec X1, devs are going to have to create and optimise a vesion of a game for each spec the x1 has, which equals more time, more man hours and money, which company wants that.

You honestly expect the average joe on the street to pull his xbox apart to upgrade parts, lol. The whole point of a console is the convenience of plug and play and not haveng to worry about upgrading it for maybe 5 - 6 years.

SegaGamer3745d ago

That sounds cool, but i just can't see that working. I can't imagine taking parts of my Xbox out and replacing it with new hardware and expecting every game made for the system to work for it flawlessly with the new parts.

Volkama3744d ago

Several game engines can already automatically scale things like LOD, shaders, and texture quality. That's quite prominent on things like phone games. It isn't Dx12 and it isn't magic, it's a feature of many dev engines.

Scaling assets down doesn't require multiple versions of those assets, and doesn't put any great strain on the developer. In those conditions, optimising for 1 additional platform isn't that much of a burden.

You can say that some developers might be less driven to eek out every last drop of performance from any one spec of a console.

wellard3745d ago

Will Xbox One gamers be able to play multiplayer with pc guys?

lowdown4113745d ago

yeah so you guys better start learning to play with kb/m otherwise it'll be a fragfest! for pc gamers.

gangsta_red3745d ago (Edited 3745d ago )

"...dx12 isnt going to magically add lod or the right amount of anti aliasing or magically generate higher textures for a higher spec X1,"

I am pretty sure that is exactly what the hopes are for it to magically do. If you read the article below that is what the Xbox team is hoping will happen. That any game no matter when released will still be playable no matter what type of hardware you have.

http://www.gameinformer.com...

"You honestly expect the average joe on the street to pull his xbox apart to upgrade parts, lol."

You are not getting the point. If it's easy enough and simple enough as just plug and play, then yes the average joe can. Especially if that hardware is specific and sold only for the next Xbox console.

SniperControl3745d ago (Edited 3745d ago )

Half the the stuff MS talks about is taken with a pinch of salt, i have yet to see anything concrete regarding the capabilities of dx12 apart from lab controlled tests and those are sprinkled with the usual amount of MS PR.

I highy doubt dx12 will automatically create higher textures, a task done by a artst actually creating those higher textures, is dx12 going to test the game to make sure it runs ok, to make sure framerates are good, to apply tweaks where necessary, to run Q&A? All these will have to be done for every SKU of xbox available, a person will have to do this multiple times, which means more money and time spent on a game.

My PC does everything that Phil talked about, heck, my crappy 5 year old bedroom PC does everything Phil talked about, which brings me to my point, why would you pay premium prices for upgrades(you know they will be) when you can just buy or build a high spec PC for the ame amount of money that will do more than just play games.

starchild3745d ago

@SniperControl

Devs already build in different settings for the PC versions, so it would be extremely simple to apply that to different Xbox performance levels.

iTechHeads3745d ago (Edited 3745d ago )

Phil Spencer himself never said "upgradeable". Let's get that clear.
If you think logically, he is talking about possibly releasing an upgraded(as in a more powerful) Xbox One in the future instead of a just a slimmer/cheaper model.

Having a console that has interchangeable components is just unrealistic. Phil DID mention the PC market but only in terms of backwards compatibility. For example an app released back not he first iPhone still runs on the newest iPhones. You can still run the original DOOM on your current gaming rig...

Not to sound like an a$$ but I find it really annoying how so many seem to think Microsoft implied a PC-like Xbox One. (Maybe there was an article written that everyone read and I missed?) The only thing PC-like about Xbox One will be its Windows-based operating system.

SniperControl3745d ago

"he is talking about possibly releasing an upgraded(as in a more powerful) Xbox One in the future instead of a just a slimmer/cheaper model"

Wouldn't that be just like releasing a new console anyway e.g Xbox two.

In which case, the whole argument we are all having is mute and we just buy new consoles as we normally would.

beerzombie3744d ago (Edited 3744d ago )

If they sell a 4k xbox this Christmas I'll buy it day one. This is a no Brainer higher graphics uhd player, built in hdr this would be cool. Those like me with money can buy and poor people can have a regular one.

343_Guilty_Spark3745d ago

Point is you still have the low cost of entry but can invest more IF you choose too.

gangsta_red3745d ago

"Half the the stuff MS talks about is taken with a pinch of salt,"

Fine, I guess. But they are laying out a plan of what they would like to do. Why sh*t on it before it's even a reality? If anything wouldn't this be a good idea? This way you won't need to buy a new console and get rid of your old one just to play the next generation of games. Or you can just keep your console at your leisure and upgrade when you have the money or feel it's really necessary.

"I highy doubt dx12 will automatically create higher textures"

Yea, but you also have no idea if it really does and MS wouldn't be pushing this and dx12 if it weren't somewhat true.

"My PC does everything that Phil talked about,"

Awesome, now your console will too.

"why would you pay premium prices for upgrades(you know they will be) when you can just buy or build a high spec PC"

Because, like I said earlier, ease of access. Imagine a console with specific console only parts branded by MS and only used with the new Xbox console. No more comparing different graphics card, RAM chips or motherboards with different cpu's that don't match or whatever the hell PC people constantly worry about when building a PC.

No, MS brings out one new stronger graphic card specifically for Xbox that can easily snap out and snapped back in, turned on and the user can just game automatically.

No more closed environment, no more waiting for 6 to 8 years for a new console. Every game from that point will be playable regardless of the specs.

Seriously, how can you not even consider this could be a good thing?

SniperControl3745d ago

"Seriously, how can you not even consider this could be a good thing?"

Because going by MS's past record of attachment pricing, these upgrades aren't going to be cheap and will probably cost more in the long run than buying a new console every 6-8 years, you just have to look at thier 360 "upgrades", hdd and hd-dvd were stupidly overpriced.

Like i said earlier, consoles are a closed environment and work well because devs work to a set hardware and know what to programme for. Regardless of dx12's capabilities, just don't see them essentially doubling their workload for no extra gain.

But, we'll agree to disagree on this i think.

jerethdagryphon3744d ago

I do modding for some games and 3d modeling by commission and yea actually you tend to have multiple lods in some engines low med and high theres only so much bump displacment and normal maps can do the only way to have high detail cmodels is on the mesh only one game i know had a adaptive mesh and that was lair

sAVAge_bEaST3745d ago

Would "not modding" bring a back door into the realm of PC's, Micro$?? to the tune of Billions, through nickle and dimming dem Micro$?? A trojan horse? I sure hope not., Careful.

+ Show (6) more repliesLast reply 3744d ago
Corpser3745d ago

It's not like the PC market, more like smart phones/tablets, few people upgrades their phone/tablet every year but isn't it great you can if you want to? Your old phone/tablet will still work for a long time

UnHoly_One3745d ago

This is EXACTLY the example that everyone needs to be thinking of.

Think of the iPad.

Every year there is a new one with some minor changes.

MOST stuff continues to work on the older models for many years, but if you have the newest one, you might get better performance or more features.

Slowly, over time, the older models receive less support and are eventually phased out.

Can it work with a game console? I don't know, but the Xbox One is cheaper than an iPad, so who's to say it wouldn't?

I know that I would have a hard time passing up the chance to upgrade if they started doing this.

ShadowKnight3745d ago (Edited 3745d ago )

An iPad is like a laptop though. It's mobile. I just don't see it working for a console every year. Unless Microsoft makes their own PC/Xbox hybrid like Steam machines I guess. It would probably be easier to upgrade the gpu and memory that way. Still gonna be expensive though.

rainslacker3745d ago (Edited 3745d ago )

A modular design which allows specific upgrades, along with a new model which includes all the upgrades makes the most sense in terms of consumer benefit, and retention to the hardware itself.

I think the principals of software are very much like the mobile and PC market, but I feel the quickness in which the old stuff is phased out is going to be quicker than we see in PC and mobile markets. That's not inherently a bad thing for game design or production, but it can get bothersome to the consumer if these upgrades are too frequent in their release.

MS has to be able to control what upgrades can be done, so the specs for each shouldn't be too frequent to update. If they do something every year, it's just going to become a pain in the ass for developers, and even PC gamers don't upgrade as often as some people posit. If MS does some sort of licensing thing, they have to make sure it's not given too much freedom among the hardware vendors, because then we could see a lot of problems with multiple non-compatible hardware specs. 3DO did this, and it wasn't ideal, because it gave no consistent performance between the hardware vendors...and there weren't even that many.

I think it's a good idea overall, just really hoping for some details on how they'll implement it, because it's a different mentality for the console space, and seems to be thought out better than generation of old where upgrades were lackluster and fragmented the user base.

2pacalypsenow3745d ago

The phone/tablet market is very different than the gaming market. Gamers (most) will not support a console that will be outdated every year. Most people buy their phones with a plan and don't pay retail for them.

Corpser3745d ago

Why would it be outdated every year? My 5 year old iPad 2 works just fine

rainslacker3745d ago

The idea is that it doesn't render the older hardware obsolete on the release of the new hardware. This in itself is like the current mobile, and even PC market. Many phones from 5 years ago...or more in some cases...are still capable of running software released today.

This would allow console gamers to take their upgrades at their own pace. The bigger question is, how long will publishers support the older hardware? If they're still building their games to the lowest common denominator(which is typical for PC and mobile) then it will be a while. This sounds great, but it also means that the games design isn't as likely to take complete advantage of the newer hardware. This will lead to the upgrades being less useful, because it basically just means we'll have better graphics and framerate....in other words, the cross-gen port is about to become something that lasts more than 1-2 years into a consoles life.

2pacalypsenow3745d ago (Edited 3745d ago )

Because if there's a better version out that makes it outdated. That's like saying My ps3 is almost 10 years old but plays great its not outdated. Also developers will run into the same issues they do with PC making it for multiple configurations, I doubt many developers will invest time and money optimizing multiple xbox versions, PC hardware, PlayStation HW and Nintendo HW

Aenea3745d ago

Yep, indeed, with a plan, buy a 2 year XBL subscription plan, get Xbox free for additional $15 a month...

And honestly, am sure many people are willing to pay $20 a month for XBL and a new Xbox console, then do the same 2 years later with a newer model...

JasonKCK3745d ago

"The phone/tablet market is very different than the gaming market"

No it's not

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 3745d ago
Utalkin2me3745d ago (Edited 3745d ago )

Thats exactly like the PC market. Upgrade when you want as new stuff rolls out.

LackTrue4K3745d ago (Edited 3745d ago )

Remember when I think it was AT&T was selling the low gb model Xbox 360?
Lol, you would get an Xbox with a 2 year plan....man that failed so hard!

@Aenea, that idea didn't work then, and will never work now.

WelkinCole3745d ago

Two different things.

Smartphones/mobile devices are a part of most peoples daily lives now days.

Not so the case with console gaming.

You don't see the majority of people carrying their consoles let alone using their consoles every time like they do their mobile devices.

If MS are approaching this as similar to the mobile market then they will be in a world of trouble.

nitus103745d ago

The basic mechanism of upgrading a smartphone is to actually replace it with a newer or different model and not actually upgrade the hardware of the original model.

If you have a smartphone on a contract (say 2 years) with a particular carrier then after 2 years why not replace it since in many cases the overall contract cost does not change or if it does the price increase is normally fairly minimal.

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3745d ago Replies(5)
MCTJim3745d ago

I'm all for it. If 4 years down the road they offer a better processor or gpu for a fraction of thr cost of buying a new system and everything is BC, who wouldn't want that. Cross play, buy and play on any device with the universal app it makes it easy. Don't know what all the fuss is about

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60°

Final Fantasy X 25th Anniversary Website Launches With New Nomura Artwork and Merchandise

Square Enix launches Final Fantasy X 25th anniversary site, revealing new Nomura art, books, music releases, and merchandise.

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-Foxtrot36d ago

Look I know VIII has its issues and all that but how on earth can the do big anniversary events with new artwork and merchandise for VII, IX and X yet VIII got sweet f*** all.

They could have given it something during its 25th anniversary yet all it got was a single Happy Anniversary post on their social media.

solideagle35d ago

they should know that we are OG fans of VIII as it sold truckload as well. not as much as VII or X. I personally didn't like IX but X and VI are my personal fav.

Shadow Hearts 2 covenant is another game I love. I hope one day someone can make remake, I would be delighted

Relientk7735d ago

Final Fantasy VIII is great and you are always the first to defend it in the comments

40°

Star Wars: Bounty Hunter Let Jango Fett Loose

LucasArts gave Jango Fett his own game in 2002, and it pulled Star Wars into a much dirtier, rougher, and more interesting corner of the galaxy.

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Relientk7740d ago

I remember playing this back in the day on PS2. What a sick game!

270°

We Are Xbox

Dear team,

Xbox has always been different.

We started with a simple idea. Games should bring people together through shared experiences. That led to the first Xbox in 2001, Xbox Live in 2002, and new ways to connect, from friends lists and achievements to parties and play across devices. Today, Xbox reaches over 500 million players around the world, with some of the most important franchises in entertainment.

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41d ago Replies(15)
Outside_ofthe_Box41d ago (Edited 41d ago )

If they go back to exclusive games it at least shows that they are finally getting it. They would be turning down immediate money for something that will potentially workout in the long term.

Only issue is they've already opened Pandora's box. A lot of their base has moved to PC or jumped to PS. So will be a long road to get back on track.

We have been saying this from day one exclusives are a must if you are going to be selling hardware look at Nintendo and Sony before Jim Ryan. That's the proven formula. You had some that were deluded and blinded by loyalty accepting that multiplat was the future and that MS was merely getting ahead of where the industry was headed, but at least they can finally see the light and agree with what everyone has been saying for a decade+

pwnmaster300041d ago

True, blame it on the rabid fanboys. MS can do no wrong and spinner this multiplatform move. While the actual fans moved on.

I feel like with the new Xbox coming they are hoping to bring back those old fans and then if it goes well. Bring back exclusives.

If the new console is performing like series x and one. Naw they staying multiplatform.

darthv7241d ago

Actual fans dont move on... they can add to their hobby while waiting for the next new release. If you believe what you typed then I guess PS fans moved on too.... you know, since its been a Sahara for 1st party games this gen.

S2Killinit40d ago

The fans didn’t tell them to go multilat. MS was forced to after the 82 billion they spent to destroy gaming. Then, while xbox fans cheered, MS realized they can’t justify the price tag by selling through xbox only, so they went multiplat and in the process began to downplay console gaming.

41d ago Replies(4)
CrashMania41d ago

I think it's too late, xbox sales were diving even before ABK, they got even worse since then even long before the full multiplatform push. I'd be surprised if they even went back to timed exclusivity at this point, Helix is basically a PC and is going to be expensive, they already struggle to sell cheaper xbox consoles, it will be low volume and they'll have a very small 'console' base to sell to, which has already been conditioned to just play via gamepass anyway.

S2Killinit40d ago

They will do what they always do, they will promise the world at the beginning of next GEN and then failed to deliver all generation long. But there will always be some gamers who will buy into their promises.

ocelot0740d ago

Absolutely agree, Do people genuinely believe Microsoft are now going to go. Hang on how's about we go back to 2020. Then GP was stagnating, Games sold where awful because of GP. Outsold by Playstation by a landslide.

They have sold 5m of Forza I believe on PS5. Spite it being a old game. I think Starfield is going to sell well in the end. Halo is deffinetly going to sell well as is Fable and Forza Horizon 6.

I think at best (for Xbox fans). Single player titles like Clockwork will have a timed exclusivity. Multiplayer centric games like Forza, E Day will release day and date on all platforms.

Or all games will release on all platforms day and date. But maybe Xbox and Windows Store copies will have exclusive bonuses. Or may even get timed exclusive dlc like Fallout and Elder Scrolls and COD use to do.

I think they will treat Xbox players like the premium customers or at least act the way. But will serve just the Playstation and Switch 2 customers as well.

Neonridr41d ago

I don't see them removing PC from the equation. Considering MS has a heavy enough investment in the PC market, it would be foolish to abandon them. I could see them taking away games from PlayStation or ensuring they are timed exclusives at the very least. Say what you will but if Call of Duty ends up becoming a timed exclusive to Xbox machines, that would hurt PlayStation, don't pretend like those games don't sell millions.

Outside_ofthe_Box41d ago

They would lose out on a lot of CoD sales tho. Doesn't PS make up most of the sales?

Neonridr40d ago

@Outside - possibly, but it might push people to want Xbox hardware so they can play with their buddies day one.

Who knows.

S2Killinit40d ago (Edited 40d ago )

it would but remember doing that can splinter the COD fan base and in the process damage the call of duty brand which is probably the only franchise in that $82 billion purchase that in anyway gets even close to delivering what Microsoft thought they bought. If Microsoft fudges around too much with the COD franchise, you might even see a competitor franchise show up on the scene and that would be a catastrophe after the huge debt that Microsoft put itself into with the ABK purchase.

But Its almost guaranteed that Microsoft will want to do something drastic at the beginning of the next generation as they always do. We will see.

Pyrofire9541d ago

Their lifeline of solely the Xbox consoles is dry. Good-Great games on a 1st party scale can't be made at a loss so willingly - sent to the Xbox to only sell limited copies.
They invested billions scooping up studios and need to start making returns.
Sucks that nearly every company is publicly traded and have to be so shareholder biased but that's how it is.
Their words are strong but it'll take time to see what their actions accomplish. Lowering the cost of Game Pass and taking CoD off of it was a good clear start.

darthv7241d ago

More like, allot of their base just played game pass. So now they need to encourage them to start buying again.

S2Killinit40d ago (Edited 40d ago )

A lot of their base left for greener (bluer?) pastures.

--Onilink--40d ago

What exactly is the long term goal with exclusives though?

Because for the most part, the hardware side of things has never been the most profitable, even sometimes being subsidized for a period before breaking even. And that’s before the hardware component nightmare we currently live in.

The whole point of exclusives was to get more people to buy your console in order to have a bigger install base, which meant even bigger software sales.

But if their ports to PS5 are selling (for the most part it seems) quite well, then other than negating the cut Sony takes there, unless you are REALLY increasing your software sales on your own console, it probably doesn’t make that much of a difference?

Honestly I don’t even understand Sony’s decision to scale back on it for PC unless they weren’t even recouping the port expenses. They released ports when the hardware sales never really dropped, and now that all consoles will undoubtedly take a noticeable drop in sales due to the ridiculous prices, that’s when they decide they don’t want to sell to a larger install base to more easily recoup dev costs… it’s just weird

Outside_ofthe_Box40d ago (Edited 40d ago )

I agree. I mean once they went multiplat, in theory there should be no going back especially when you have games that have sold really well on other platforms.

Microsoft are the ones that announced that they are reevaluating. So I'm just guessing on what their end goal is. Right now Xbox as a hardware is not a must buy for anyone but fans of the brand because their games can be played elsewhere. Going exclusive would solve this, but you lose out on a ton of money instantly which has always been what the company does not want to do so not really sure what their "reevaluating exclusives" means unless they are pulling a Phil Spencer and are just saying what people want to hear and will continue to do what they are currently doing.

darthv7240d ago

Their ports to PS5 are selling because Sony's output has been so dry... the fans are thirsty, and MS is the oasis.

SIdepocket40d ago

Unfortunately, the studios they buy wither under their leadership.

mcstorm40d ago

Microsoft still has a name with Xbox the issue is the casual games are not looking at the console because its not the same console their friends have. Look at that poll on how many users upgraded from xbox 365 to one and then the X. Part of Microsoft's downfall was thinking that the Wii was the market they had to be in when really it was the core market. If you get the core gamers you then get the market to. As I posted a few minuets ago on another post Microsoft putting exclusives on PS this gen could bold well if they hit next gen with all our games are staying exclusive from this new gen. They will then get gamers wanting Halo, Forza Gears but this is also where Microsoft fell over with the xbox one and X in terms of they did not have may quality 1st party games affter they fell into the Gears, Forza and Halo cycle. If they can get some old IPs back to bring back the old core gamers as well as fresh ips to bring in new gamers things could improve next gen. But as I said in my last post its all if buts and maybes at the moment. No one knows if the next home consoles will be to expensive that people move to pc as we are now seeing or look at the stem deck as a cheepier alternitive.

DarXyde40d ago

"Only issue is they've already opened Pandora's box."

That's very optimistic. It's not the only issue, far from it. There is a serious rupture between Microsoft generally and the public caused by their weird Game Pass price fluctuations, taking down physical game space in stores, and being the first to go nuts on hardware price hikes that they themselves played a big part in.

They're also charging beyond a premium for Helix which is just vile at a time when the economy is in shambles.

The company itself is really not doing itself any favors with the approach they're taking Windows. Even France is looking to ditch Windows in favor of Linux.

But the most offensive thing is this AI push. They're doubling, tripling, and quadrupling down on the very technology they're using to replace a considerable proportion of their workforce... And the slap in the face is how they bake copilot into everything when nobody likes it—they couldn't even make Bing stick, so why on earth are they trying so hard? You know it's bad when people would rather use ChatGPT than Copilot which is killing their OS. But aside from their snatching up of farmland to build data centers (and reduce the agriculture capacity of whichever country allows them to build them), they made an AI-generated gamer gurl that loves AI the head of Xbox.

Even if we grant them the full benefit of the doubt, it hardly matters what Xbox wants to do if Nadella says no, and that includes exclusive games. Microsoft's relationship with Xbox is the opposite of Sony's relationship with PlayStation—Microsoft pulls the reins of Xbox, but Sony damn near went under for the PS3.

Tanktopmaster9240d ago (Edited 40d ago )

“If they go back to exclusive games it at least shows that they are finally getting it.”

Great strategy, especially after Forza selling 5 million on PlayStation and sea of thieves selling at least another million (2 million) for example. In March 2026, Xbox consoles sales ratio vs PS was 10:1.

In addition to that, with Gamepass, which unequivocally cuts out chunks of sales (Cannibalizing revenue from 1st month sales especially).

I’m sure going exclusive again after releasing everything on Ps5 is going to work out great for business.

+ Show (8) more repliesLast reply 40d ago
maximusprime_41d ago

Despite all of that, it's clear that Microsoft's Xbox division is broken beyond repair.

41d ago
BeHunted41d ago

PlayStation is currently draining money on flop after flop. It's Sony that needs to re-evaluate their strategy

41d ago
CrashMania41d ago (Edited 41d ago )

Wonder how much money was lost on perfect dark, hellbalde 2, 300 million lost revenue
by putting cod on gamepass. The recent Jason schrier news that Xbox has cancelled dozens of projects, spent 70 billion just to see Xbox sales further collapse and gamepass see little growth.

The fact is this has been PlayStation's most profitable generation and they are making loads of money and selling plenty of consoles and games. While MS won't give you any sales figures or profit numbers for Xbox, says it all really.

S2Killinit40d ago

Sony PlayStation has deservedly dominated xbox. Facts

Tanktopmaster9240d ago (Edited 40d ago )

Ok tween.

Xbox series SX got outsold 10:1 last month. lol.

40d ago
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shadowT41d ago

"Our presence on PC isn’t strong enough."

Fishy Fingers41d ago

It isnt. But I dont think they mean in 'games', rather, footprint.

They own the OS but as far as gaming is concerned, Steam dominate. I imagine the VAST majority of people who use the Xbox app/launcher are PC gamepass subs. No ones buying their 3rd party PC games through Xbox PC.

badz14940d ago

and many gamers prefer SteamOS for gaming over Windows too. If only Valve would be more uncompromising to the anti-cheat makers that locked out non-windows players, more pc gamers would have moved onto SteamOS by now and not looking back to Windows. overall, Win11 is a terrible, bloated, unoptimized OS which is not what many people want

ocelot0740d ago

Agreed and I think that's where they are going to focus on more. I think cheaper games on Windows/Xbox store (MS IP) compared to Steam and Epic and maybe even compared to PSN store as well.

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