"Lastly, the Order was not "Hyped" it was simple promoted just like any other game."

Wow. Talk about revisionist history. Game was hyped through the roof.

"I could tell months ahead of time that The Order was not going to get a fair shake."

The game was a victim of its own shortcomings, not a mass conspiracy.

And the Until Dawn comparison...really?

Just no.

It was definitely "hyped" but not because the developers or Sony hyped it up. People assumed it was going to be like Gears of War and what they got was a game similar to Heavy Rain. If it were advertised that way, like Until Dawn, and people knew what they were getting into then I believe it still would have sold well. The fact that RaD and Sony said nothing to calm the flames being spread by the hype only hurt the game in the end. So really all it takes is proper advertising. Let people kno what exactly they are getting into so they're expectations don't go astronomical and there shouldn't be a problem.

The Order had plenty of detractors before it even launched. I remember some dude got an early copy and leaked details like 'it's 5 hours long' (over 10 for me, more because it played again for the plat). It got attacked because some of its chapters were cutscenes, which essentially meant people were complaining that a little bit of text appears on the screen during certain cutscenes. WHO CARES if some cutscenes got chapter titles like the gameplay chapters, what difference does it make?

It was when I read Kotaku's review for it, when he called the game ugly, that I knew the reviewers had jumped on the hate wagon.

Yes the werewolf fights were shite and the re-used 'boss' fight was lame but other than that it was a very good game. Not great, but very good.

Most underrated game of 2015.

I agree, I even mention in the article that the game isn't as bad as many make it out to be. I even mention that there are bits I liked, and complimented the game on such. Really the article only focuses on the two lowest points that deal with expanded story telling/world building and the pacing issues between gameplay and cut scenes.

I agree with this comment one hundred percent. But I feel it goes even a bit deeper than marketing.

Marketing killed The Order, it accentuated all the wrong aspects of the game, and made the game look like something it's really not.

They basically stated that it's werewolves and steampunk, with a hint of the cinematic elements taken from a game like Uncharted.

But let's be honest here, people.
It wasn't hype. It wasn't even that the game was bad, it just wasn't what people wanted.

It became overly reliant on QTES, and the levels themselves were insanely linear, to a point reminiscent of old games found on PS1/N64, crumbling any sense of player autonomy, and also ruining the sense of scale the game wishes to depict.

Worst of all, however, was that the game's own "story" wasn't that interesting to begin with, and that's where the developers have stated time and time again, that the game wishes to provide. A meaningful timeline with characters you care about, nothing of the sort was even hinted at within the game.

I bring up a game like Uncharted, which Ready at Dawn certainly felt they could recreate, within a dreary, near monotone depiction of 1880's London, but the reason why the story worked in Uncharted is relatively easy: it's basically Indiana Jones, an adventure with rare artifacts and competing parties vying their way for its possession. The simple stories of all three games works, with additional little details thrown in to make it its own thing.

Marketing showed alot of werewolves, and combat with them, and we ended up with about 5 minutes of total combat through the game's short 5 hour runtime.

The most important thing to remember is that this is Ready At Dawn's first rodeo with "big boy" platforms, and it's really exciting to see what they've done with their engine, in particular. The bones are there for an awesome game, and they just need to make sure they nail down the gameplay elements before bothering with exposition.

Sony games get the skull and crossbones before they even come out......just look how much hate sony games get for no reason, the last of us, beyond two souls, the order 1886 , until dawn, Knack, Killzone shadowfall, infamous second son, no mans sky, some people even take a crap on horizon, sony makes the best games but people just hate hate and destroy then the games sell terrible....this industry will die and it will all be thanx to these people........

^^ Please tell me that's sarcasm omg

@Septic

The contrary... The guys has his points and he is totally right. Wrong expectations killed the game.

The Order was a solid 7.5-8?? Yes in your opinion. In my opinion, it was a 6. All graphics and barely any gameplay, stupid AI, and repeat boss battle with the same freakin wolf who does the same thing over and over. Press the X button at the right time to win...yay! C'mon man! Had this been a 3rd party multiplatform game, I bet you won't have the same favorable opinion.

Wrong expectations killed the game? Exactly what were the expectations that people got wrong, that it was supposed to be good? Some of you are hilarious when it comes to this game.

This isn't one or two rogue reviewers going against the grain, a couple of disgruntled PS fans starting a fight, a secret set of Xbox fanboys trying to sabotage Sony's prestigious game line up. The majority consensus is the game is just awful.

The game was HYPED and anyone who doesn't think it was is only fooling themselves.

I wonder was TLoU victimized months before release? Uncharted? Infamous? Bloodborne? No wait, all celebrated Sony games?

But I guess the media and gamers just woke up and decided to pick on The Order for no good reason at all.

Hilarious how most are willing to give this game a pass. If this game was made by Nintendo, EA, Activision and (lord have mercy) MS, this trash would be getting shredded to pieces.

"Lastly, the Order was not "Hyped"

I remember constantly seeing Screenshot articles from 6 months before release until release
*waves @ Abriael*

no no, not hyped at all...

"so do you expect, say, a TV series to blow their proverbial wad all within the first episode? if your answer is "no", then why would you expect the devs of this game to do that if their intent was clearly to build up the story over a series of games?"

LOL seriously dude, are we now comparing AAA retail games to TV shows? Was The Order 1886 supposed to be an episodic game or something?

@magician:

there's no difference, when dealing with storytelling, between a TV show, and a video game that has a strong, cinematic story component.

and yes, R@D has said that the order was going to be more than one game, not a one-off.

"Ru Weerasuriya, creative director at Ready At Dawn, recently talked with GamesTM about The Order: 1886 when he spoke about the possible future of the franchise:

We've built this IP to be much bigger than just one game. There are stories that have been told in the game but there are stories that haven't and stories abotu what happens after the events of this game. Absolutely, though, I would love to get the chance to tell more stories with sequels and other things we can do with the IP."

http://www.gamezone.com/new...

Ziggurcat, why should I answer the question when it has NOTHING to do with the problems of The Order.

"establish enough within the first episode that make you want to see the progression of the story in the next "episode.""

Except The Order didn't establish much of anything did it? They made a world with potential but filled it with bland and uninteresting characters. Talked about a huge problem with monsters that you hardly fought in the game. Then gave you items to look at that had little or nothing to do with the story that was being told.

The Order left every single plot hole open and wide, almost every character unresolved and then topped it off with a "To Be Continued" type of ending.

That is not good story telling and it definitely doesn't make for a cinematic experience disguised as a video game.

"...you must have been really disappointed in Star Wars because Lucas didn't reveal that Darth Vader..."

You are making zero sense with this Star Wars comparison ziggurcat. Those are specific pivotal plot moments within the whole Star Wars trilogy.

Each Star Wars movie stands on it's own. A New Hope established it's universe in the first half hour, the Jedi, the Empire, Sith, the rebellion. A New Hope resolved itself neatly and still left enough for the overall story line with those specific pivotal plot points to be told for the sequels.

But yet you say a story doesn't need to do this. What type of television or movie does this and is considered good? Any movie or television show that did this would be slaughtered in reviews and yet you're trying to use this as some defense for excusing The Order.

@gangsta:

"why should I answer the question when it has NOTHING to do with the problems of The Order."

uh... what are you talking about? you mentioned the story of the game as one of the problems in your OP (you referred to it as a "glaring hole"). your argument was (in a nutshell) that there was a lack of closure and too many questions left unanswered, so the question of whether you felt that, say, a TV series needed to resolve everything in the very first episode (because the order is only the first game in a planned series) is appropriate. if you do not think that a TV series needs to resolve everything in the first episode, then you're presenting an unfair, hypocritical criticism of the game's story if it's their intention to explain everything over the course of time.

"You are making zero sense with this Star Wars comparison ziggurcat. Those are specific pivotal plot moments within the whole Star Wars trilogy."

there are pivotal plot moments within the whole Order universe that have simply not been addressed because the game that's out right now is just the *first* game in the series. it took three movies for Lucas to address those pivotal plot points, so why does the Order have to fully address all of its pivotal plot points in the first game?

"Each Star Wars movie stands on it's own. A New Hope established it's universe in the first half hour, the Jedi, the Empire, Sith, the rebellion."

the Order established everything in its universe in the first game. we know the characters, the villains, the fact that there's a conspiracy, etc...

"But yet you say a story doesn't need to do this."

no. i said that a story doesn't need to have everything resolved in the first installment of a series. your argument about the order's story seemed to suggest that they were required to have everything all settled by the end of the game.

You sound ridiculous zigg, it's a non episodic AAA game with a lack of gameplay and your excuse is not blowing it's wad the first game? Lol just lol.

Before the game release a lot of people said it would be trash. Some called it a hate campaign, a conspiracy. The hate was based off the fact gameplay they showed was useless walking! Staring at random objects. There was no gameplay and then they show a wolf battle where charge and reset over and over. -_- the exact expression on people face.

What dev can learn? Don't focus on graphics so much and lack in gameplay, build a satisfying game so player don't go "that's it?".

@Ziggurcat

“you mentioned the story of the game as one of the problems in your OP (you referred to it as a "glaring hole").”

Keyword, Ziggurcat is the GAME, not television shows. Your argument is nothing but a broad sweeping generalization that has nothing to do with the topic of The Order. It seriously makes no sense.

“if you do not think that a TV series needs to resolve everything in the first episode, then you're presenting an unfair, hypocritical criticism…. “

No, this is your made up argument that you are trying to push on me. It’s unrelated to The Order and the points I specifically made about that game. There wasn’t enough explained, explored or thought out to establish a proper world for The Order to be intriguing, the plot was paper thin, almost everything in the game was left unresolved or unexplained, it was too short, the supernatural threat wasn’t even there, add all of this up and it makes for bad storytelling and an even worse game.

I seriously don't know how many times and in many different ways I have to explain that to you.

The devs left this world barren to be explored in a sequel but this backfired on them. It was too bland and boring and what could have been interesting if fleshed out more, was just left on the table to be used in a later game. Missed opportunities is what hurt this game the most.

“because the game that's out right now is just the *first* game in the series.”

So why are you talking about classic Star Wars pivotal moments that are revealed in the sequels? This is why you are making zero sense. You are bringing up points that have nothing to do with The Order.

“so why does the Order have to fully address all of its pivotal plot points in the first game?”

When did I say that The Order had to explain its “pivotal” plot points in the first game? You were the only one discussing this when talking about key specific moments in the whole Star Wars trilogy. This is why it’s absurd for you to even compare a whole trilogy or television show with The Order. Again, you are making up these arguments and trying to apply them against what I thought was wrong with this game.

“your argument about the order's story seemed to suggest that they were required to have everything all settled by the end of the game.”

That’s not my argument Ziggurcat, that’s your argument.

My argument is that everything The Order tried to do they failed at and that the only successful thing that they nailed were the graphics. Ha...maybe I just should have said that!

- The Order has an awful plot

- Does that mean you hate television shows!?!!

- Wha!?

Is basically how your straw man argument sounds Ziggurcat. Ignore all points made and then make up and argue something completely ridiculous.

@gangsta:

"Keyword, Ziggurcat is the GAME, not television shows.... "

you're focusing on the medium rather than the general concept of the question - which you've *still* not answered - do you expect a series, (and The Order IS a planned series of games) to completely resolve *everything* in the very first episode? TV shows are often serial, so it was the simplest example to use, conceptually, in comparison to a game that's expected to have multiple instalments.

"No, this is your made up argument that you are trying to push on me. It’s unrelated to The Order and the points I specifically made about that game."

you specifically complained about the story of The Order being unresolved/having lots of things that were left unexplained, etc... I've not made anything up, i'm asking you specifically about your points related to the story.

"There wasn’t enough explained, explored or thought out to establish a proper world for The Order to be intriguing, the plot was paper thin, almost everything in the game was left unresolved or unexplained ... the supernatural threat wasn’t even there..."

... all of which would likely be addressed or elaborated upon in the next instalment of the series...

"When did I say that The Order had to explain its “pivotal” plot points in the first game?"

see above. you've mentioned, more than once, how unresolved the story was, how they didn't explain everything, how they left "vague hints", etc... which includes pivotal plot points...

"This is why it’s absurd for you to even compare a whole trilogy or television show with The Order."

it's not a literal comparison. it's speaking to the concept of those things involving multiple episodes, with long, elaborate storylines. not everything in a TV series is ever explained/resolved in the first episode. not everything in the first Star Wars movie was explained/resolved, yet you seem to be of the belief that everything in The Order needed to be explained/resolved in the first game of the series (based on your specific complaints about the story).

Ziggurcat...seriously, the more you try and explain yourself the sillier it sounds.

"it's not a literal comparison."

What you don't seem to understand is that your comparisons not only suck but they make no sense to this subject. Just like the VHS comparison which we also shouldn't take literal. Hard to discuss something when all your comparisons have some astral projection ghost form and is not grounded in reality.

Myself, Lastking, Magician and Maniac have all questioned exactly what the hell you are even going on about.

I've already stated my reasons for not liking The Order over and over and over again to you.

But this is the last bubble I'm wasting explaining it again to you. PM me if you want to talk about The Order so I can just once again go over the points I already made here.

By the way I agreed with the author on the whole plot and world of The Order. How about you ask him if he likes television shows and movies.

@gangsta:

"I've already stated my reasons for not liking The Order over and over and over again to you."

i'm only addressing your argument on the *story*. you've argued that they purposefully left stuff out, you've argued that they didn't resolve or explain everything, you argued that they left vague hints to be explored in the sequels, etc... if The Order is the *first* game in the *series*, then it makes perfect sense for them to have done all of the things you're complaining about with their story. do you honestly expect them to have resolved everything by the end of the game, knowing that it's only the first part of the story? because if you don't then your entire criticism of the story bein unresolved or unexplained is unfair, and hypocritical, especially if you don't happen have those same expectations towards any other serial medium. why are you holding the devs of this game accountable for things that they've planned on explaining in the future?

"What you don't seem to understand is that your comparisons not only suck but they make no sense to this subject."

they make perfect sense to the subject. It's not the medium that's important (which you keep focusing on), it's the fact that all three of those things (Star Wars, TV shows, and The Order) involve stories that will be/have been told over a series of episodes.

"Hard to discuss something when all your comparisons have some astral projection ghost form and is not grounded in reality."

i'm asking yes or no questions. hardly anything too difficult for you to handle. they're questions about your philosophical standpoint on storytelling - whether you expect a serial story, regardless of the medium, to be completely 100% resolved by the end of the first episode because you seem to have a problem with The Order not wrapping everything up by the end of the game. it's to figure out whether your beef is specific to the game, and if it was then why would that be?

"How about you ask him if he likes television shows and movies."

that's not even close to what i've been asking you - maybe that explains why everything seems to make no sense to you.

Here's the thing...

Obviously, the heads of the gaming divisions of these large corporations answer to a bigger boss. It was pretty clear Phil didn't have too much sway when Mattrick got canned for telling the truth about the new Xbox strategy—Spencer literally did the same thing by turning up the heat slower so the frog (I.e., you, the consumer) didn't notice the boiling happening.

But all that said, Spencer is allegedly this dyed in the wool gamer, received millions in compensation, and stayed on board with the vision, knowing full well what was happening. There's no way he was kept in the dark on matters, and it was clear in his public statements that he knew a lot and tried to be very intentional with his language. If it was for the love of the game, he could have easily called it a day YEARS ago and still had f*** you money.

At the end of the day, he was a suit that wears gamer T-shirts. There was a time when Microsoft was all about getting the gamer persona down. Moore and Mattrick were from the industry in external studios, Spencer was from their own gaming studio.... Then Bond from McKinsey of all places. Now, AI.

We know Microsoft proper is the one making these horrendous decisions, but again, that didn't stop Spencer, and it didn't even give him pause.

So I say he deserves criticism for being a Trojan horse and shepherding Xbox fans. And if you want more evidence of his spinelessness, just remember that he went on TV next to Bobby Kottick and more or less hand waved away his crimes for dear Microsoft's dreams of acquisition.