@ everyone wondering why I don't like to pay that much for Playstation 2 games in digital form.

http://img15.deviantart.net...

http://reinhold-hoffmann.de...

no there is no excuse for charges ...bring canon disc based pS2 emulation ...few to none cares for trophies ...these are lame excuses Sony

Dude, Huff daddy,

It looks like you bought ever single PS2 titles including their import duplicate. WOW LOL, and I thought I was upset with only about 1/50 of your PS2 disc collection, I feel your pain as money is not really an issue for some gamers, but it is the principal. I am glad I am not the only one that feel Sony is wrong on this.

@Hoffmann, if you don't want to pay for the PS2 games on the PS4 because you already own them physically, have you thought about plugging in your PS2 and playing them?

Just a thought.

@XiKurapikaKurta,

"Can't compain much cuz I have 0 PS2 games on my shelve. I would pay for Tenchu 3 and Star Ocean Till the end of time.

Sony is a company that needs to sell their stuff. They aren't gonna give anything for free or $5 each just because they are old"

See, that is what is wrong with this argument that some of you have and is defending this. You are not against this because you said you have no PS2 disc games on the shelve. So paying to get those PS2 games emulated on PS4 is is not the issue for customer like you...

...BUT gamers like Hoffman, myself and people that already have a great collection of PS2 titles on disc at $50 a pop or people that have already bought GTA3 on PS3 digitally with their same PSN account, that is where Sony has dropped the Ball. They can still sell the PS2 games at $15 and $10 to PS4 gamers like you that have no PS2 game while still allowing gamers that already have such games the ability to play them on their PS4 should be the way how the PS2 emulation should work just like how the MS X360 and The Wii U virtua Console emulated titles work.

If Sony wanna charge for trophies and whatnot, just give a discount to gamers that have already bought the games like what Nintendo is doing by only charging $1.50 for People that want to upgrade their Wii version to the Wii U version of thier VC titles.

This is indefensible as how can any real gamers be OK with this? If for example, if the PS5 comes out, will you guys also be OK with paying for another emulated digital copy of Dark Cloud made for it knowing your digital emulated PS4 version won't work?

I still can't believe were talking about old games and BC. I never thought that BC would be the biggest news this generation. I guess I'll go back and play the first Super Mario Brothers then since I still have my NES system still.

@Rookie_Monster

At this point is it simply very dissapointing to see that Sony made an emulator for their games, one that makes the games at least a bit better looking on the PS4 but they don't add it as a feature for those among us that have these games at home as Physical copies already.

I can play the majority of the games I showed in that photo above all pretty fine with the PS2 emulator on PC already anyway. But some of them don't work at all, like Scarface as example. There is also the possibility of playing it on the good old original PS2, but honestly..its not looking good on a modern standard TV.

Its a pity to see how MS is one time able to do something cool with their xb360onxbone emulation while Sony is trying to milk the cows as good as possible.

Those 10-15 bucks tagged games are no real alternative if you have an average PC. At least for the big majority of games that run fine on PCX2.

If you still own the PS2 game your crying about, then put it in your PS2 without trophies, without 1080p and without streaming or share play features and keep quiet. The needless complaining on the internet isn't going to stop Sony from putting these games up for people who want them. Haha most PS2 game reviews on PSN are already above 1000+ meaning people are buying these.

Edit: and some are whining because they don't want to have to pay to own their physical based games digitally.... That's the best one right there. Bought it digitally on PS3 you say, we'll play it on your PS3, without trophies, 1080p and network features. So what if someone owns a PS2 game, put it in your PS2. Sony didn't announce with the PS4 it was going to play all your old disks. Lol what a joke.

@ROokie

So I am wrong because I don't care? Do You expect me to give you my sympathies and unite forces to cry over something it doesn't affect me? As if I have time for that lol

If you are a diehard collector like you guys say, then you should either have working PS2 there to boot your discs or get one on the Internet.

Yeah I know Sony may be being greedy by not figuring out compatitbility with discs, but here that is not what you are complaining about. It's the fact that Sony is charging for these games at $15. You are againts rebuying them yet you are complaining because they aren't cheaper?

I find it ironic that the console whose primary focus was "DRM-free" and "playing on disc" advertisement in 2013 is the ONLY console that has no disc based backwards compatibility.

On top of that charges AGAIN for digital games people just bought (in many cases for a second time) on their PS3's.

Lastly, has a DRM drenched service to play PS3 games.

Convinced there is nothing Sony can do that won't be blindly defended at this point.

some of those ps2 games have the original 4:3 screen size. you are basically paying a $5 surcharge to get trophy support and sony to do the emulation. that is how much i think they are overpriced.

easy fix to all of this. sony should offer these games as part of playstation now. there is no reason why they should not be included.

@Hoffman

Use your PS2 console. This is not BC. If you cant wrap your head around that logic then im not sure anyone can convince you. Think of these digital downloadable games as a new software to purchase because they are exactly "new remastered software".

@thanatos they are not "new" or "remastered" they are upscaled (which emulation has done for years at no cost) and take advantage of UI features of the console. The only added thing are trophies ... nothing more. If you think trophies are worth $15, well that is sad.

The games have not been altered in any way other than trophies, there is no denying it. Upscaling and aliasing effects are all done externally.

First of all, the loudest of the people complaining are those who do not even own a PS4 and have always hated it to begin with. For example, Rookie and Doctorfraud. Just look at their comment histories. They are just taking potshots while they have the chance and concern-trolling or outright bashing.Therefore, their complaints are invalid.

Secondly, companies can charge whatever they want for their goods or services. A shopowner or business is not obligated to charge your favorite price point or give it away for free. If you dont like the price then dont buy it. Simple. The business will be forced to reconsider their prices when nobody buys. Speak with your wallets if you dont like the prices!

Finally, if you have the physical discs then play them on a PS2 or PC. Nobody is forcing you to buy them on PS4. Then you have to consider that even the PS2 emulator took a decade to refine and it still isnt perfect and requires a powerful PC to run at 1080p and a stable 30 fps. Cant run my Persona 4 on a Core i5 at 720p and stable 30fps. What makes you guys think that your games will suddenly start running on PS4 without any fixing? They have to specifically work on each title they release so why cant they charge for it?

IMO the only valid complaint here is why dont the PS1 and PS2 classics (very limited library) run on PS4. And even in that case Sony never promised that the purchased games will continue to run on all future hardware so you cannot hold them to it. It is logically impossible for a console to feature BC infinitely and eternally. Sony had to stop BC because of radical change in processor architecture after 3 generations of featuring BC in their consoles. It is really understandable and reasonable decision. Some people are being unreasonably entitled while others are just haters capitalizing on a golden opportunity to bash Sony and have fun.

@Hoffmann if you don't like the prices then don't purchase the product. If the market won't support the price set then the product won't sell. Vote with your wallet. Complaining that a company set the price of their product to high sounds a bit whiny.

"@griever First of all, the loudest of the people complaining are those who do not even own a PS4 and have always hated it to begin with."

Ironic statement ... truly. Especially cinsidering the outcome of most articles about the competition.

That said, there are 2 problems with that.

1. It is NOT mostly xbox fans complaining.
2. You can dislike a practice without owning yhe console. People disliked MS' original direction of the XB1 without owning it. Criticism is not directly linked to ownership.

@fiveby "Complaining that a company set the price of their product to high sounds a bit whiny."

Didn't people complain about the prices for XB1 launch hardware, titanfall, battlfront, remastered titles, etc. Why is it that $15 for upscaled ps2 game with trophies is more whiny? Why weren't you and others claiming the afformentioned were whiny? Can't sit on both sides of the fence, guy.

Here is the thing games are cheaper than they have been in a very long time in part due to games being available digitally. I remember some Nintendo 64 games being as expensive as 89.99. My problem with this is that when you buy games digitally you really don't own them, the fact that you have to re-buy them again on a new console is what I don't like.

Yes these game are available online because their is so much piracy going on with PC that is one of the reasons why games on PC are less expensive.

@Hoffman

Nice collection. I feel for ya, and understand the frustration since I have almost as many PS2 titles myself, but think it's unreasonable to be pissed at Sony for something that was never promised. While I don't know how you felt about it at the beginning of the gen, when the debate was that there was no BC on either console, the majority consensus was that it wasn't that big of a deal.

People seemed pissed now because there is an emulator, and they feel they should get it for free.

I would like the emulator for free myself, and even said back then that I'd pay for a premium PS4 with native BC, but I brought my PS4, and all my PS2 games with no expectation of being able to play them on any machine ever made by Sony.

I've never seen so many people become so reactionary and entitled so quickly, and have so much support for that entitlement and I feel the issue has gone by the wayside because people keep harping on this principal that Sony is forcing us to "rebuy" our games, instead of actually focusing on the issue of why it would be good for Sony to offer a disc based emualator, or if it's even possible given license agreements.

Every article about this stuff boils down to the, "Sony is greedy" for one side, and the other side saying "Sony promised nothing", and it goes nowhere.

The "Sony is greedy" side simply can not seem to come up with a reasonable explanation on why Sony HAS TO give this emulator away for free, and instead make analogies which aren't directly comparable, nor will they bother to even address the actual topic of if Sony is obligated, or won't even bother to consider that maybe it's not even possible yet, or that Sony is just waiting to maybe release it later when the emulator is more finished.

I don't like that the other side is dismissing the concerns of some of the people on the "sony is greedy" side, but at the same time, I don't feel the conversation has been productive because there is no consideration for any reasoning other than the entitled view.

@Kartmart

If you do not plan to own a console and do not benefit from its services in anyway then why are you interested in complaining? It is completely irrational and only fueled by hatred. Yes, PS4 owners are also critizing but they are being unreasoanble when you consider the effort needed to port a PS2 game on PS4. If you do not like the prices then speak with your wallets and Sony will have to reconsider.

People criticizing MS for Xbox One reveal is not the same thing. People criticized MS because people were interested in buying the console and the decisions were going to impact the whole industry. After all Xbox was the market leader in the US last gen. They did not like the direction and eventually spoke with their wallets by switching to PS4.

I agree with you that you do not need to own something to criticize because that is impossible. HOWEVER, you do need to hold a stake in something to criticize it. If you do not own a PS4, do not like it, do not plan to own one and are not interested in playing a 15 year old PS2 games then why are you criticizing?? How does it impacts you? Such a person has got no right to complain since he has no stake in it. The rest can complain but it is not like they are being forced to buy. As I said above, play those games on your PS2s and PCSX2 instead of paying Sony. Speak with your wallets.

Sony should stop messing around, and just come out with real backwards compatibility. They could do it if they really wanted to, but they see another revenue stream, so they probably wont do it.

I've bought Dark Cloud and Rogue Galaxy so far, but I only did so because I don't own them. If I did, I would be just as mad as the rest of you.

I get that they have to charge something for the trophies, upscaled graphics, and share support, but if you own the game, it should be like 3-5 bucks. Tops.

Omg I know right I bought this game 15 years ago and they aren't providing me with a new updated copy for free? What are they some company trying to make money?? I mean I bought this movie on VHS, then they gave me the DVD and then Blu-ray for free, oh wait they didn't. But I did get an Iphone when it first came out and now I get every model for free, no actually...

@Payta

So if you bought The Matrix on VHS, you should be entitled to the Blu-Ray version free of charge, correct? Or how about owning an album on cassette and expecting a retroactive MP3 download courtesy of the record label? That's your argument, and frankly, it's a stupid one.

These are things you purchased more than 10 years ago. Let it go.

Holy....Hoffman, that PS2 collection...don't think I've seen anything that mad. Crazy man!

It's simple.

IF YOU DO NOT WANT THEM, DO NOT BUY THEM.

The rest of the argument is just people complaining that they're not getting something for free. Some people don't have the physical games, and would like to have upscaled versions of the original with trophies. Some people don't mind supporting the developers. If you're not one of those people, then the choice is clear: vote with your wallet. Don't buy them.

If more people want them than don't, then they will sell and their selection will improve. If more people don't want them than do, then they won't bother making any more and you will have "won". Of course, there's those who are just interested in manufacturing controversy. Those people won't have any affect on the success or failure of these products anyhow, so they can be ignored.

Kyizen/Beasely,

That's what i have been saying in older posts all this time. People want free IPhone 6 bcoz they bought first IPhone. "Give me free Bluray copy of Ghost Busters, Sony. I played it on Sony VHS 16 years back."

@rainslacker

"People seemed pissed now because there is an emulator, and they feel they should get it for free."

So you think Sony should charge their users for using an emulator that can play PS2 games? Is this what you are suggesting? It is truly baffling how some can be so anti-consumer because they want to defend their company tooth and nail.

"and all my PS2 games with no expectation of being able to play them on any machine ever made by Sony.

Great, Sony never promised it, but now it's here and Sony is locking it behind a pay wall. Just because Sony never promised it doesn't make it okay to accept every little bad practice that comes from any of these company's.

"I've never seen so many people become so reactionary and entitled so quickly, and have so much support for that entitlement"

Maybe it's time to stop using buzz words and N4G popular terms of the month like "entitled" and time to start realizing that PS4 users and gamers in general are just straight up DISAPPOINTED. And they are voicing this disappointment on forums like this one here.

"Sony HAS TO give this emulator away for free, and instead make analogies which aren't directly comparable,"

It's even worse when there's no reason or explanation as to why Sony shouldn't let their gamers use the PS2 emulation. The only excuse and defense I read from you is "Sony doesn't owe you anything". You call that a valid reason?

Sony is charging their users to purchase PS2 games to play on PS4 instead of offering this and the ability to use already owned PS2 games on the PS4. Nobody is asking it to be free since there would be two options and more than likely PS2 games are already bought and paid for.

Why you feel that Sony shouldn't offer this to their fan base when they are already paying for just about everything else on that console is nothing more than pro-corporation, fanboy defense absurdity.

I wonder when MS was implementing their DRM for Xbox One or when Nintendo was pushing their "gimmicks" where you in every article stating that these companies didn't owe gamers anything?

"I don't feel the conversation has been productive because there is no consideration for any reasoning other than the entitled view."

Two sides to that coin Rainslacker, maybe discussions would be more productive if you just accepted that not everyone can just sit back and say "oh well, we aren't owed anything", when they feel a company is screwing them over.

Hoffman here has a very, very impressive collection. For convenience sake and just because it's possible it would be nice for Sony to allow Hoffman here to use PS2 emulation for PS4.

Doesn't Sony have some motto of "For the gamer."?
Or is it "We don't owe you jack shit."?

"I'm sorry but why is it okay for Sony to charge you money last gen for PS1 and PS2 games and then charge AGAIN for the same games on PS4?"

game companies have been doing this already for decades. square enix... Nintendo. etc.

why is it so wrong for sony to charge $10-$15 bucks for a ps2 game? but other companies gets off the hook?

if 10-15 bucks per game is really true, I think its fine. when it goes on sale it might drop to 5 bucks or so.

I mean gamestop charges some ps2 games for like $39.99. and its just the disk only. with some scratches. in their 'retro' section.

unless im misunderstanding something here which is also possible.

@hoffman

I'm sick and tired of people whining over first world problems.

For the price you get the game with trophies and share function and with upgraded visuals. If it's not worth it stick to your old games and play them without the upgrades. Your choise.

"There is also the possibility of playing it on the good old original PS2, but honestly..its not looking good on a modern standard TV"

This sounds like you want your cake and eat it too. Such whining over NOTHING. I wouldn't have cared otherwise but the staggering amount of agrees on your first comment alone just made me comment. Most of the gamers today didn't even play the PS2 cause they were in diapers back then.

@maniacmayhem

I think if there was an option to purchase an emulator for PS2 disc based games for 10-15 bucks people would be bitching that it should be free. Or they would be bitching about the games looking like crap cause they are old and next they would want trophies on those things free of charge ofcourse and what about that sharez fuctionz eh....?

Find out what Colin Moriarty and Greg Miller say about this whole thing.

If I buy Die Hard 1 on VHS tape... did I get it free when it came out on Blu-Ray? Enough said.

No one really cares about this whole thing. Xbox Fanboys like to play this crap up because they have nothing else to bag Sony about.

I can only imagine how small the percentage of gamers that really want to play more than 1 ps2 game on their PS4 would be.

@ Rookie Monster, you are the biggest Xbox fanboy ever. You are so biased it makes people think you are a Microsoft shill getting paid actual dollars. You pretend to like PS4 games and a Sony fan, but you place these comments strategically throughout your time here, just so you can defend yourself when people call you out on your bullcrap. It's blatantly obvious.

@maniac

Nope. I don't think they should charge at all. That doesn't mean that everyone is entitled to it.

Sony can't just give the emulator away without possible legal consequences. Well, they could, but enabling the use of licenced software on the system is a copyright violation. Same way those PC emulators can't give away the PS2 BIOS. There may be some legal loophole I don't know about that may make this untrue, but it's a reasonable assumption, and is the reason why the software BC on the PS3 required publisher approval, and was scrapped due to lack of publisher interest. If someone can provide legal precedent which states otherwise, I encourage them to post it. I'd wait, but most people don't seem to understand these intricacies.

Because Sony never promised it does make it perfectly OK for them to do whatever they want. I don't agree with it, but they have committed no fraud that entitles anyone to anything. People find it offensive because their expectation is that they should get it for free, but that expectation is more on them than Sony.

I'll stop using the buzzword entitled when people stop acting entitled. It's obvious people are disappointed, and I feel for them, and I'm disappointed as well, but I'm not expressing my disappointment in an entitled manner.

I agree, I wish Sony would just come out and say why they aren't doing it. I'd imagine most of the things I've said about copyright would be mentioned, and I have no doubt people would still act the way they are because I haven't seen many of the complainers be able to comprehend the concept of copyright, much less give it any consideration when making their arguments. So the simple question is, does Sony have the LEGAL RIGHT to enable PS2 games to play on the PS4 and not have to be held to copyright laws pertaining to the software licenses?

Maybe Sony isn't saying anything right now because they have it in the works. Could that be possible?

"Sony is charging..Nobody is asking it to be free.."

BS and you know it. People are here asking for it for free. Both the new digital versions, the emulator itself, and every possible scenario that it could be made a reality. Not everyone is asking for everything for free, but they at least want something for free.

I never said that Sony shouldn't offer it, I said they probably aren't able to legally. My only point of contention is that people act like they deserve this for various reasons.

Discussions would be more productive if people complaining would consider that some of the things I've mentioned about copyright may prevent Sony from doing this, and re-framing their arguments to try and find a way to get past this obstacle instead of just stating blame and accusations There are many possibilities why it isn't offered, but I see very few people with your mentality trying to reason any of that out, and instead take the reactionary route of Sony is greedy.

Sony has for almost 20 years been the forerunner in offering BC to the gamers. PS4 is their first console in 18 years which hasn't offered some kind of BC, if not full BC, yet they are receiving so much hate despite being the example that everyone holds everyone else to.

Now they change paths for some reason, and no one will consider any possibility other than they're greedy.

If defending them makes me a pro-corporate apologist fan boy, then so be it. People see me as that anyways. If the best argument that people can come up with to counter my own is that I'm a fan boy, then they obviously can't think of any reason why I'm actually wrong.

I don't have any issues with the vendor selling PS2 games to run on the PS4 via emulation. Let the market decide on this.

I do have a collection of over sixty PS2 games and since I do have a BC PS3 I don't have any problems, however if I don't have a PS2 game and I would like to play it I would expect to pay for doing so.

When I finally get a PS4 the only way I would pay for PS2 games would be if I did not have a particular game I wanted to play or I wanted to play a game with trophies.

Since the PS4 has an emulator that will play PS2 games I would expect to play my PS2 games (obviously sans trophies) at no cost to me or I can just use my BC PS3 or run them under an emulator on my PC.

I would not pay to play a game I already own and I don't really care for trophies although I don't have any objection to vendors charging people for a game they don't already own.

The PS2 was launched mid 2000 however games for it were still being produced even after the launch of the PS3 (Nov 2006) so some PS2 games would be less than 8 years old.

@Lrtthreookiewin "Then don't buy them. problem solved" you do realize you people sound like evil CEOs like Don mattrick when you say bs like that?