despite it being a feature i almost never use (i still have PS3 60GB model and i prefer to turn on PS2 to play PS2 games), i really thought it was mega announcement the way they did it. After that i realized that MS was just MS, by claiming something sompletely different from the reality. Only few games support this backward compatibility, so NO it's not native, they have to work on the title's emulation before.

@abzdine

"After that i realized that MS was just MS, by claiming something sompletely different from the reality. Only few games support this backward compatibility"

No that is not the case. Any level headed person will know and understand that it will take time to build the catalogue of games for BC. In fact, it is growing as we speak.

You do realise that the feature that is available now is for preview members only right? It hasn't formally launched yet and MS made it very clear that they will have hundreds of titles available when BC actually launches.

To break it down for the sake of clarity:

1. MS said hundreds of titles will have BC
2. All devs/pubs have to do is say yes and the game will be BC
3. The game will work EXACTLY as it did before. This was stated quite unequivocally on stage live at E3
4. The library now is for PREVIEW members. It has NOT launched yet.

I hope that helps.

@abzdine

So offering clarity to someone who is struggling to understand some very basic FACTS means I am a prime candidate for the role of PR for Xbox?

Let me make you understand the position even more clearly because you are clearly struggling here in respect of my numbered points above:

1. This is a FACT. Spencer said it clearly. He used the words 'hundreds'

2. This is a FACT. MS said this on stage. There is nothing to suggest that this position has changed.

3. This is what MS said. They used the words and showed off Mass Effect.

4. This is a FACT. What are you disputing here exactly?

Frankly I don't see a productive conversation happening with you. You quite clearly struggle to understand when someone is extending the courtesy of offering an explanation to you and your failure to distinguish between what is fact and what is theory is worrying. That alone would probably make you a better candidate to fill Panello's shoes :)

he is right, they are taking a different approach. sony saw an opportunity to charge consumers through playstation now to make use of their acquisition of gaikai and microsoft found a way to emulate for free.

i find it hilarious how he says there isn't much interest yet they put resources into creating playstation now and don't have any ps4 games on it.

@Abziiine I didn't get the impression that each title needs work. It sounds like a full emulator, no tweaks or special game-by-game attention necessary.

I imagine the initial limited catalogue is partly to simplify testing, and partly because they do need to give publishers the opportunity to opt out.

The 360 backward compatibility required the kind of work you are talking about, and MS very quickly stopped adding games to that list. I don't think they have made the same mistake again.

Kinda makes me wish I'd clicked "yes please" on all the 360 games with gold for the last x years lol.

Only 18 games are currently supported. They want to see a return on their gakia acquisition. Also you're kinda doing the same thing with Xbox BC because you are downloading digital version from Microsoft's server. With PS now you are simply streaming it from the server.

Your presentation couldn't have been that good if BC is the biggest thing people are talking about. BC is something to ease a transition into a new generation. Don't really play my old ps3 games anymore.

@Septic

This comment about sticking in the disc and downloading the game makes me think it's not just an emulator. It sounds like they may be transcoding the original binary to work on the XB1.

Septic is on the mark with this issue. This was Microsoft's "this is how you share games on One" hit at Sony. With many developers trying to cash in on remakes Microsoft is simply allowing them to determine if it is something they want for their fans. Under Phil Spencer Microsoft is giving developers final say on just about every possible aspect of their IP. From universal apps to BC.

As far as how Microsoft is doing this I believe it is far more simple than they let on. The design of the Xbox One OS is like a server. The hypervisor running two virtual machine OSs for games and for apps. That's why one can crash and the other doesn't. Servers can work with many architectures. I would bet they just created another virtual machine that is the OS of the 360. In fact I bet they can make the Xbox One run PlayStation games too. If you go back to previous announcements they have said IOS apps and Android apps would work on Windows phone with Windows 10.

A server can run bunches of virtual machines at once. That is probably the reason for the 8gbs of embedded memory. Who knows what they plan to run simultaneously. The possibilities kinda make you wish they had gone with far better parts. But it bodes well for the next Xbox.

So sorry Abzdine and Malice. There is no work required by the developers. Microsoft just doesn't want to step on anyone's toes. Under Phil Spencer Xbox is all about developers. Ballmer would be proud. No further work required, just permission and it's done.

I also don't believe when Microsoft says to download games with a disc they mean from Live. Some seem to believe this requires a recoded software. Same code, new OS. Looking forward to Original Xbox games also. Though I would love to see a MechAssault remake.

It is backwards compatible if the publishers gives the authorization for it. If not, they can restrict it and release a remaster instead.

That's what suck, but hey it's awesome to see B/C is still a thing.

Now if Sony could bring Backwards Compatibility for PS2 and PS1 at the very least, it would not be impossible to do.

Is no one going to bring up that this guy talking for Sony pulled a Don Mattrick almost word for word? Especially with the "it's not used much" line?

It's hypocrisy.

“We have experience of backwards compatibility. The earliest PS3 model was backwards compatible with PS2, and it is a much requested feature… but actually it’s not so greatly used."

-Looks back at PS Now:
"What Sony failed to mention is that the prices for renting older games are outrageous"-Gamerant
http://gamerant.com/playsta...

-So they brought out Gaikai to build a whole service that they don't think will be used? Come on now, pfft....no clearly they want you to pay $$$ to play old games on ps4(BC) or on anything else like Vita.

-They also shot down EA Access because its not a "good value to the PlayStation gamer".

-And this same SCE Europe boss downplayed consumer choice with EA Access "isn't quite comfortable with how it sits within the whole ecosystem of our digital offering, including PlayStation Plus". -Gamesradar
http://www.gamesradar.com/p...

-January 2015 "Sony is launching a PlayStation Now subscription option for $19.99 a month" -add $49.99 per year, plus $19.99 a month and the costs start to add up. -TheVerge
http://www.theverge.com/201...

-If this were Microsoft refusing consumer choice, then downplaying BC -while promoting and offering a less desirable, more expensive service to stream older games the pitchforks would be out and there would be a thousand cries of how the devil corporation is bad for gaming.

-Yet many here are deflecting the glaring hypocrisy of SCE Europe Boss comments and actually trying to downplay X1 announcement of FREE BC games. Wow, this is a textbook case of why you can't take fanboys seriously, they flip flop on principles like politicians.

-Much credit to you DragonKnight and sony fans who CAN see the hypocrisy in this.

@4Show

Very well said. + Bubbles!

On Topic:

As Dragonknight pointed out, I find it funny that "Sony" says that BC was hardly used even though almost every gamer has requested BC for their systems.

I know people want to defend that PS Now is something completely different but the fact remains that this is Sony's answer for playing older games on your PS4.

And while I think it's a great idea I would still prefer having the option of playing my old games on my new system.

@Muerte2494 - I still have plenty of 360 I wouldn't mind playing.
It would also be preferable to clear the space of the 360 console, itself.
All the while retaining my 360 games, to play on my xOne..
I would take full advantage of this. I'm sure plenty others will, too.

***I know people want to defend that PS Now is something completely different but the fact remains that this is Sony's answer for playing older games on your PS4. ***

Saying they're different isn't a defense of PS Now. It's just a statement of fact.

I've said they are different, serving different purposes.

I've also said I want BC on PS4 and think BC on XBO is a great business move.

The problem is that people are distilling thoughts down to just extremist views. Either support it completely or not at all. I see the purpose of PS Now even though I'll never use it. I see the purpose of BC as well, and I would definitely use it.

Got to laugh at the attacks on BC, yet it is always wanted and I remember when it was dropped harshly on PS3, people went nuts and even wanted to sue Sony, and really, it was done bad on 360. Many here also go all out defending PSNow, which, as Dragonknight pointed out, was rendered useless in one sentence. How can they justify charging loan shark rates for games you own, when this happens? You got to admit, MS blind sided everyone with this. Just hold your hands up and acknowledge its a good thing.

I've got to say as much as I am an advocate for BC, this guy might be speaking the truth. On ps3 I used it actually zero times and just used my PS2 because it had the saves still and on PS2 I might have used it a handful of times but I found myself too busy with that system's awesome library. I still want BC on PS4 but I'm not expecting it and I suppose I wouldn't use it too much like this guy says. He's just stating statistics basically. He's not saying get a PS3 if you want BC. Hardly like Don Mattrick at all.

It clearly said in the article that Sony doesn't have enough software engineers to focus on backward compatibility and they much rather focus on fulfilling the original promises they made such play as you Download and Suspend/Resume.

Please read the article before wearing your tin foil hat and making more conspiracy theories.

"Saying they're different isn't a defense of PS Now. It's just a statement of fact."

A fact according to who? You? Sorry but I guess our facts differ because they're just our own opinions.

"The problem is that people are distilling thoughts down to just extremist views."

I see more people trying their hardest not to see the similarities of both offerings. This is Sony's answer to BC, yes Sony has bigger plans for this service in the long run but as of right now this is the only way to play older games on PS4.

I actually like the PSNow service and if they ever had a game I never owned I would probably rent it, but I have more games in my library that I never got to finish and it would be fantastic to play them on my Xbox One.

PS Now is not strictly for BC on PS4. It also works on PS VITA, VITA TV, SAMSUNG TVs.

I wouldn't spend money on it at all, but it ain't made with me in mind it's made for casual consumers. XBOX BC is made for snatching people still stuck in last gen and current gen gamers who want to play their old stuff.

@Septic
Technically this ISN'T emulation. If it was all you would need to do is put in the 360 disc after the OS update that includes the emulator and all games would work. It is like downloading a SNES emulator all ROMs work, you don't need to re-download special ones.

Another thing is that the CPUs are radically different, X86 in X1 and PowerPC in the 360. Then you need a much higher clock speed to emulate a different CPU. When translating CPU instruction set you need more clock cycles to do it. The X1 CPU has a LOWER clock at 1.75 GHz compared to 360 3.2 GHz so emulating is mathematically impossible.

What they are likely doing is some kind of recompiling of the games. That is why you need to download the games digitally, the disc is just a key to tell them you own the disc. You are basically downloading Xbox 360 games recompiled for the X1. This also explains why they need permission from publishers, modifying a third party's game code such as recompiling/translating without permission is probably illegal.

Still it is a great feature I am not trying to downplay it.

Sony's data shows that not many people use BC, so they design a business model (PSNOW) where they will charge PS4 owners to play games their most likely already own. Hopefully more of them will play these games now they get to give more money to Sony.

There is some logic here. I am just to stupid to see it.

***A fact according to who? ***

To everyone?

PS Now: Game streaming service using a subscription model that can be played on a lot of devices and requires an Internet connection.

XBO BC: Allowing the play of certain games from the Xbox 360 at no additional cost on the XBO and not requiring an Internet connection after initial game download.

To continue to argue that these services are the same is a failure in logic. It's akin to me saying that TESO F2P model is the exact same as Clash of Clans F2P model.

Just because both allow you to play some games from last generation does not mean they are the same thing or are no different from one another.

They know it because the feature wasnt on all ps3 models accross the world , and over time removed (for ps2) . Yet besides us on our forums and comments section of choice , the world didnt blink and punish them for giving up on it . When they removed the ps2 hardware to lower costs , sales went up instead of punishing them .

I wont defend Sony for not featuring it , it's something every constructor should strive to as a standard , but it's easy to see that it's a feature usually very demanded at the launch of a console , and then many move on or forget it .

Things could change however , with a push from MS (and Nintendo)

The best answer to BC IMO is to keep your PS3. I have all PS4 PS3 and Vita and I dont see the problem specially not using my PS4 HD space for last gen games.
I read it seems they have to download it on their HD and cant play from disc

Just curious Septic, but if it's as easy as just saying "OK, you can enable it for this game", then why aren't all of Microsoft's own games enabled for the preview period? I don't really understand that. Couldn't they just greenlight all of their own games right away, and if so, why wouldn't they?

@callahan09

I'm not sure you understand how the preview program works. We have quests that help Microsoft gather feedback and bug reports. Expecting a massive amount of titles directly after the announcement is kind of reaching, don't you think? Pretty sad that you guys are trying to turn this into a negative now.

They specifically said that 100+ would be supported by official launch. They stated no work is required of developers, its all on Microsoft's end. It can be easy and also still require some work to make sure we have a smooth experience. I've tested some games already and they're running great. That doesn't mean some of the more extensive multiplayer games are going to be as easy to enable as snapping their fingers.

Allowing you to play the games you own for free on PS Now may seem fair to you, but how is it fair to Sony? They need to maintain this massive infrastructure to support PS Now, that has to be paid for somehow. Perhaps making it free with a PS+ subscription could be viable, as long it's not unlimited usage.

But really BC is only needed at the beginning of the console's lifecycle when games are sparse. We're near the end of that period now.

PS Now isn't really for PS gamers. It's more for the casual gamers that aren't going to go out and buy a console, or for non-PS gamers that just want to play a few of the PS exclusives.

how did they state that this is complicated, when ms did the same thing last gen. i use my BC last gen and it made me buy more games i didnt play. they are clearly trying to nickel and dime their customers. hey its business and clearly its a win win by them doing this.

"the reality is not many people used it,"

What reality is this? I have a 60 gig original PS3 and I and others I know use it often, i am currently playing Grandia III. The reality is Sony said that just to justify taking BC out.

Yes not every game will be BC with X1 but not every game will be available to rent on PSNow either. Also people seem to forget that when licenses expire those games will also disappear from PSNow too.

"with all the new titles coming out on X1 and Ps4 how much time are you going to spend playing your old games?"

Whenever I have time, that is the great thing of having the option to re-visit games you already own. Instead of having to pay to rent those games you already own.

Even if Sony has a program where if you put in a PS3 disc the system sees it as a key and allows you to stream that for free it still isn't as good. Streaming games sucks. You need a good and always online connection (remember the meltdown over "always online", now it is ok?), the graphic fidelity is downgraded, and you get input lag. With this "BC" you are getting to download recompiled X360 games to the X1 and can be played OFFLINE with the same level of graphic fidelity and no lag. MS solution is much better.

I say this as a Sony fanboy too.

But are the games "old" though? In real terms the PS3 and 360 provided a staggering evolutionary leap over their prior releases, maybe that's why the measured usage of BC was supposedly low.

That and it was jacked on 360, they looked great but some really ran at low frames, the only games I remember really shining were Dead or Alive 2/3 and Burnout 3.

Most of the games on PS3 and 360 are still gorgeous and technically sound. I would love to see Forza Horizon, Killzone 3 or Uncharted 2 on my new HDTV, especially if the PS4 or 'One were running them.

The choice is clear. Pay a large fee for streaming BC, or wait for free local BC.

Basically MS undercut Sony, like Sony did to MS a couple E3's ago.

the problem is sony can only do this via streaming because the ps3 arcitecture is so different than the ps4. I also dont think PSNOW is their asnswer to backwards compatibility, i think they are testing this on ps4 but are using this to allow ps games on other devices like they started doing

I think streaming will grow, but not replace consoles anytime soon. Both will coexist. Sony is just positioning itself in both markets with PS Now

so soon we dont need a ps4? spin spin spin. i get the point about playing on other platforms but. no BC at all is a turn off. i hope they dont have BC next gen since people seem to think its ok and justify it.

The thing about PS Now is its Sonys long term goal to completely remove ownership of games from the players.

..."PlayStation is dominating on every level"....

...Really???

PlayStation are soon heading into a new generation in the not to distant future. They currently have the worst customer satisfaction they've ever sustained as a company. The company is heading for a huge crash while at the same time they'll need to be planning how they are going to try and win back that favour and the build up to their new releases.

Yes financially they're winning but they're going to have to ride out this complete public corporate disaster. No one has faith in the company or the product anymore. They've damaged their public image so much this generation. Greed can kill anyone.

Hulst is a disaster......