GearNuke: "Moon Studios’ CEO Thomas Mahler spoke about the recently cancelled Phantom Dust Reboot on NeoGAF. He also talked about their experience with Microsoft and clarified some of the misinformation about how Microsoft treats other developers, especially after the cancelled Phantom Dust Reboot developers talked about their terrible experience with Microsoft."
Moon Studios CEO Thomas Mahler says No Rest for the Wicked could evolve into a long-term RPG platform with new modes like roguelike, survival, and farming.
Is this game ever coming to consoles? My pc friends played it in early access over a year ago….
I do envy pc players sometimes because of the early access. For this game especially.
Anyway, consoles will get the definitive version in the end so all good.
Thomas Mahler: "Since it's quite bananas that a lot of players still do not understand the economy behind game development, I thought it'd be best to just break down a real example of a really successful first-time developer who managed to make a deal with a publisher. "
I wouldnt call a game that costs 10 million to make and had over 30 people from different companies working on it an indie game.
Seriously, no.
its an independent studio that is not owned by any big studio or publisher. what else would you call them?
Indie means independant PLUS low budget.
Say I'm a billionnaire and decide to fund my own game with a $20M budget, is it an indie game just because I don't call a publisher? Dev costs increase yeah, but $10M is hardly indie
@TheCaptainKuchiki I mean there is a word, independent, now look up what independent means.
https://dictionary.cambridg...
If you are a billionaire and fund your own game your game your studio is definately an independent studio xD
Thats what the word means.
Game development expenditures have exploded since the old days, Terry. Office space, hiring computer techs, game development equipment and art direction all have insane costs now.
Regardless the expenses are still there. If every indie studio had a success like Stardew Valley, they wouldn't be begging big time publishers, crowdfunders and investors to cover development costs. Alas most don't.
I don't get it..
He starts with 10M cost for the game excluding marketing and continues to detract "other"costs...
Why are the costs of storefront, engine etc not included in the 10M?
CEO makes CEO noises.
If he takes a 1 million dollar bonus every year the game is being made and the game took 5 years to be made, the "cost" isn't 10 million, it should be 5 million.
It's just more magical accounting. This industry is replete with it.
@Santouryuu
Yeah, it's weird. On top of that, he subtracts engine, tax from HIS own money, but this should be put on the publisher (or at least be split, 50%/50% or how they agree), because they're benefitting from the sales as well. On top of that, he makes it look like he didn't get a cent, but he (and his team) was paid the salary the whole way through, with bonuses and stuff. Probably rent for the office was taken care of as well and licenses/devices too.
And also, he acts like his games' average price was $10 (by the way, if the game cost $10 million, who decided to sell it for $20?! Sounds idiotic), which is ridiculous, popular indie games don't do 50% discount right after release and the most of the sales are done a few months after release (according to the publishers). As an example, look at Rimworld, Dwarf Fortress, Factorio, Kenshi, they either didn't have 50% discount yet or had it years after the release.
Also, he acts like the game was only sold on Steam, but that's false. And Microsoft, i'm more than sure, didn't take 30% from them (because it's a game published by them on their platform).
The only thing this tells me is that someone is trying to manipulate us and you shouldn't work with Microsoft if you want to remain sane.
because thats what he has to HAVE RIGHT NOW to develop the next game (engine, tax andso on)
Yes xbox of course did not have the 30% tax but then again he is just making a hypothetical, I am pretty sure their game did not sell exactely 20millions ^^
Its not the cost of storefront. Your game made 20million but from those 20million the store takes 30%. Steam took 30% from the 20million you made. got it?
If you make 20million in sales Steam takes 6 million.
So you only get 14millions. Then you have to pay back what you owe the publisher, so 10millions in devcost and 2million in marketing.
So you are left with 2millions.
From the 2millions of pure profit 70% goes to the publisher and 30% to the developer (depending on your contract)
So you are left with 600k to pay for your next game, for now.
lots of numbers but very clearly put
Really enjoy the Ori games, but the studio head has always been an insufferable dickhead. Those costs aren't included cause he's miserable and full of shit.
Where did those $10 million go though? It’s a loan basically, but didn’t those pay through the development? Essentially the developer got paid $10 million upfront to make a game. If the game didn’t hit $12 million in sales-say $8 million. The publisher lost that money. The developer still got $10 million. Sure, maybe their next game may not be funded-but they wouldn’t have to come up with the $4 million missing. That’s a loss from the publisher.
absolutely correct.
He is pointing out the fact that even IF you have a hit game that sells 2million dollars. Does not mean you can pay for the next project.
Thomas Mahler warned that unfair review bombing could harm the studio’s future but later clarified it's not in immediate danger of closing.
I really, really hope that this amazing studio will eventually give us one last Ori game, it can be a prequel. Will of the Wisps is one of my favourite games of all time but as for their new game ehhhh.. let’s just say i have zero interest in it but they seem very passionate about it so i hope this review bombing doesn’t affect the studio’s future.
It doesn't even have to be an Ori game it can just be similar. I want them to make a side stroller combat game. Kinda like super smash bros but with ori playstyle
if you like arpgs, but wasn't a big fan of screenclearing attacks, this is a really fun game. It's sort of diablo meets dark souls.
This is a great game, i dont think its fully released yet, but it has a heap of content if you want to get stuck in
I don’t get the criticism at all. From the visuals to the story, music, voice acting, and gameplay, it’s incredible on every level. Sure, some parts aren’t perfectly balanced yet and there are a few glitches, but the game isn’t even fully released. I’ve put around 80 hours into The Breach update already (300 or so in total), and I still can’t get enough.
Majority of the criticism is on the time-gating they utilize in the game that makes it feel like a mobile game. I think his making it out to be just people who leave a thumbs down review without effort isn't really why people are leaving bad reviews. If you read through them, they really hate having timers on so much considering building them in the first place requires you to collect materials to make them, which should be the 'time' you spend and not just waiting for it to finish being constructed.
Nice Article and some interesting statements from Moon studios.
"Making a AAA-looking game like that for 5m with full online multiplayer and all that jazz already sounds low to me, but if I’d then hear from our producer that we also have to now all of a sudden add a 6h long single player campaign without any budget increase and within the same schedule is just absolutely out of the world crazy and I personally have never known the people at Microsoft to make claims like that."
"I mean, we obviously only dealt with a small set of people at MS, but it just sounds somewhat unbelievable to me and completely unreasonable from a business and development perspective, especially since those milestones are set in the actual contracts and both parties have to adhere to them."
Makes sense.Usually business deals like these are all signed contracts and if this story is legit then Darkside had every right to make a case.why didn't they? I just hope we get the full story someday,anyways i'm looking forward to Ori 2 or whatever Moon studios decides to do next.
Congrats Moon Studios. Ori is the best game I played this year so far.
Ori is great, beautiful, even had a super meat boy Easter egg, hope they can make another one.
When I read that article yesterday, I said to myself, something doesn't smell right or someone left out important information. I still think and will continue to think that this person who gave the story was pissed his project got cancelled, and who wouldn't be? But something is not adding up, we are not getting the full truth from these people.
Disgruntled employees always serve up a meat and potatoes meal and leave out the meat and we only hear about the potatoes.
Is this a Ms console exclusive or is it going to come out on ps4 as well?