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Ex-DICE Dev On EA's Influence On DICE, Battlefield 4's Launch Problems & Frostbite Mod Tools

In a Reddit IAMA, Tim “stormonster” Kjell, a 26 year old Swedish Game Designer that worked on games like Battlefield, Mirror’s Edge, Frostbite, Medal of Honor and more, answered a lot of questions surrounding the games he’s been involved with. In addition, Tim talked a bit about EA’s influence on DICE, the launch issues that Battlefield 4 faced, and offered an explanation as to why we have not received any mod tools for all Frostbite-powered games.

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dsogaming.com
DxTrixterz4253d ago (Edited 4253d ago )

And I quote
“We started testing as soon as we had a build running (usually this was gray cubes everywhere just to get it running) and then we just never stopped testing. Every day we had playtests with usually somewhere around 70-80 people (at least!) joining servers and playing. Then on top of that we had a big QA team with experts in different areas working on finding the really nasty stuff every hour of every day and working pretty much around the clock for the last 4 – 5 months of the productions.”

And how exactly if the game was being tested for last 4-5 months by at least 70 people had soo many bugs that the game was completely unplayable at launch and 6 months after release? Can this guy explain that. I'm sure somebody out of those 70 people must have noticed the state the game was at when it was released but I guess they didn't give a single damn about it as long as they got their $$$ for their hard tesing work that they completely failed at. As for mod tool kits this will never happen because if they would let people create their own content then their DLC sales would go downhill like hell. Simple as that. It's not about us gamers but about our $$$.

Pandamobile4253d ago

Internal testing can only do so much; especially considering most of BF4's issues were in the networking and rendering side of things.

Internal playtests are typically geared more towards game balance and design than trying to catch every single bug before launch. Ideally, DICE should have rolled out a private alpha at least 6 months before launch, and a public beta at least 3 months before launch. It's just not a realistic expectation to ship a 100% stable game in 2014. There's just way too many variables to account for, so a good habit for gamers to develop is to wait for a couple months after the release of a big multiplayer game like Battlefield.

DxTrixterz4253d ago (Edited 4253d ago )

I understand that a game can have some bugs but in BF4's case there were soo many that the game was completely unplayable and seeing that it took them at least 6 months to fix the game into playable state proves that the game has been rushed too much. I would rather wait those 6 months but have a playable game from day one than having a game that I can't play until they fix it.

Pandamobile4253d ago (Edited 4253d ago )

Again, there's only so much that internal testing can actually catch.

It's not until the game has been released that DICE can get all the telemetry data they've programmed into the game back to the studio and start making meaningful changes. An extra 6 months in the oven might have resulted in a more well-balanced, polished game; but all of the stability and networking woes would still have to be worked out post-launch in many cases.

edit:

Just to be perfectly clear, I'm not condoning what EA and DICE did with Battlefield 4. As a fan of the series since Battlefield 2, I felt just as pissed as the rest of the community when the game was still flush with issues. It just helps to lend an understanding ear the the gripes of game development. Things go wrong, things don't go as planned, things backfire. Players need to understand that as well.

FPS_D3TH4253d ago

There's so much common sense in your post my faith in humanity is trickling back ever so slowly. +1

Kleptic4252d ago

I agree, a lot of common sense in there...

but one glaring issue...

Most of the community complaints did not stem from a 'lack of testing'...we knew it was tested, we knew they 'worked very hard on it'...

what pissed most of us off was that during this 4-5 months of 'round the clock development' DICE producers had time to talk about how fantastic the game was, how improved it was over BF4, how the networking side of the game had been stream-lined to an unrecognizably competitive degree...

which was just blatant lies...we knew it was tested, the problem was that we also knew those tests found hundreds of problems...of which could not be fixed in time for a release that was more worried about beating COD out the door than giving a working product to paying consumers...

we get it...game development is so hard...Its one of the few industries i know of where a publisher/producer can plunk down 50 million dollars and still not have something working 2 years later...but, I think its to the point where we need to stop being told that...I'm positive those 80 testers noticed TONS of problems...that was never the issue...

the issue was always suits at EA giving a clear 'So what? The game is releasing'...

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Debaitable4253d ago

They can't test for every single possible configuration. 70-80 people is a super fraction of the amount of people who play the game across all platforms. There will always be bugs that won't be known till after launch.

escott0134253d ago

I agree with everything you said EXCEPT for the bit about DLC sales plummeting because of player-created content. Think about games that do allow that. Some games are almost nothing but player-created content and mods but the DLC still sells tremendously. (i.e. Elder Scrolls games and Arma games off the top of my head.)

Thanks for the quote, mate. Saved me some clicking :P

Kleptic4252d ago

I'll have to dig for an article I read during BF3's early days...but it kind of contradicted what this guy is saying...

I think it was MP1st that had an interview with some DICE producers that simply stated how all frostbite engines were the first situation where they as a dev used 'state of the art' middleware...which allowed more complex physics, animation, lighting, etc...but also entirely removed the ability to release modding tools due to complex licensing issues with the other software devs...it also made patching more difficult due to testing needing to be done by outside parties...

something along those lines...but, who knows...

3-4-54253d ago

* IF THEY needed that much testing, & it still ended up the way it did, then THEY OBVIOUSLY have the wrong people hired over there.

* Somebody doing the coding or whatever DOES NOT know what they are doing.

Pandamobile4253d ago

You sound like you have a great understanding of software engineering and game development. Please tell us more about how the fault lies with DICE's individual engineers and programmers.

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annoyedgamer4253d ago

Ex-Dice dev? These responses seem to indicate he is still on EA's payroll in some form.

oof464253d ago

No. He doesn't want to burn any bridges. What company is going to hire him if they think he will bad mouth them when he leaves?

annoyedgamer4253d ago

That is a good point. It does not make it any less of a white-wash.

crazychris41244253d ago

I'll believe it when I see it. Encountered bf4 bugs in the Hardline beta n crashed a couple times.

quenomamen4253d ago

The majority of BF4s game breaking problems where on the network side, thats why they could have done internal testing for a thousand years and probably never seen the problems we saw online.

150°

Battlefield 1, Hardline, BF4 Servers Are Being Taken Offline by Cheaters; EA Silent on Issue

Cheaters & hackers have been causing grief on Battlefield 1, Hardline & BF4 servers, with nonstop DDoS attacks among other things. Unfortunately, EA has remained silent about it.

-Foxtrot1515d ago

Course they are silent, they are hoping people flock to 2042

gamesftw2501514d ago

Maybe it was a inside job then haha.

jeromeface1514d ago

wouldnt be the first time, titanfall 1+2 anyone?

PapaBop1514d ago

Not even if they paid me.. EA always do this with old games with less money potential, if this was Ultimate Team, they'd address and sort it faster than stories could spread. Why invest time in their products when they will just dump it in the following years? Then again EA never could see the forest for the trees.

Inverno1514d ago

I imagine after those games were given out for free a couple months back through Amazon, anything that makes people go to 2042 is a plus for them

XiNatsuDragnel1515d ago

They want people to go on 2042. My theory

excaliburps1514d ago

Nah. I think they can't do anything about it or they want to sink money into fixing it.

Pudge1028881514d ago (Edited 1514d ago )

EA owns all BF servers so yes, they can do something about it but they refuse to because they dont want ppl playing their old games instead of the new one. Its EA we’re talking about here

pr33k331514d ago

if this happened in 2042, they'd have something to say. which is weird, considering battlefield 1 has more players on steam right now.

Pudge1028881514d ago

Its so obvious that EA is doing this or hired ppl to mess up the games so that we’d be forced to have just 1 Battlefield working.

FPS_D3TH1514d ago

Honestly it’s probably the devs themselves. They did an update to bf4 way back that kinda made assault rifles doo doo in hopes that people would flock to BF1 cuz BF4 was too perfect

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60°

5 Great Shooter Games on Xbox Game Pass

The shooter genre is one of the most beloved videogame genres in the gaming community, and rightfully so. From DOOM Eternal to Battlefield 4, passing through The Outer Worlds, the Xbox Game Pass has a lot to offer when it comes to amazing shooter experiences. Come check out some great shooter games available on Xbox Game Pass!

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keengamer.com
MadLad1530d ago

There's a bunch of great shooters on gamepass; both legacy and new.

A recommendation I have is a work in progress preview title called Anacrusis. It's a lot of fun, and has a cool aesthetic.

90°

5 Games That Started Out As A Buggy Mess

KeenGamer: "Sometimes a game starts out as a buggy mess and we all just stop and think, “that definitely could have spent a bit more time in the oven”. This is the case for these 5 games which infamously marked their place in recent game memory."

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keengamer.com
KingofBandits1622d ago

"Games That Started Out As A Buggy Mess - A Bethesda and CD ProjektRed tale"