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Computex TAIPEI 2014 - AMD Showcases Performance Difference Between DirectX & Mantle

During Computex TAIPEI 2014, AMD showed off the performance difference between Microsoft's DirectX and Mantle, and today the red team released a video from it.

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TurboGamer4342d ago

Exactly how much did AMD pay those devs to gimp the DirectX version of the Game? I would have believed them if there was a 5-10fps difference, but a 50fps difference is just BS at the highest level.

Kayant4342d ago

Nothing. It's a controlled benchmark so they can use hardware and settings that show the most benefit with mantle. It's not BS it's just very skewered to show such a big difference.

http://www.extremetech.com/...
http://hothardware.com/News...

http://hothardware.com/news...
http://www.extremetech.com/...

Lon3wolf4341d ago (Edited 4341d ago )

oops wrong reply

LordDhampire4341d ago

TurboGamer, Mantle takes the strain off the CPU and puts it on the GPU, a game like star swarm with tons of small particles and ships like that use a ton of CPU power, crippling even the strongest processors, hench why mantle shines.

AndrewLB4341d ago

And Mantle only has any benefit if your CPU is a POS from 5 years ago. Any $120 modern CPU will see only a few FPS in actual games. Mantle's main benefit is to Netbooks and systems with APU's. And truth be told, no AMD APU is going to play the newest games on ultra and when you think about it, AMD has far less discrete graphics market share then nVidia so why would developers use mantle other than for the fact that they're being paid a LOT.

PCpower4341d ago (Edited 4341d ago )

WRONG! Any i7 series from Intel will not have any issues with poorly optimized DirectX. This slowdown only affects weak processors like i5's or all of AMD's processors. Raw power is raw power. In fact with Mantle enabled, barely any performance gain is noticed on high end CPU's. That is because of the law of diminishing returns. This law cannot be violated or then science will be turned on its head. The more powerful something is, the less it is affected by optimizations or affected from poor optimizations.

Lon3wolf4341d ago

@AndrewLB

That demo ran on 8350's.

Volkama4341d ago (Edited 4341d ago )

Andrew that is a common misconception. Mantle definitely has it's place for the high-end.

I have an i7-3820 clocked at 4.4ghz, and 2x R9-290s. Using BF4 as the best example about, I get about 100fps with Dx and ~160fps with mantle. That's a huge increase, and a real world example.

I actually use mostly Dx though, and only play with mantle if I'm messing around with 4k res. The extra frames do nothing for me besides make my graphics cards run about 10degrees hotter.

@PCPower the fact that you say any i7 can run bad Dx code and any i5 cannot only proves you are making it up. It is exceptionally rare to see Dx run significantly better on an i7 than an i5, as it simply doesn't use the extra vcores.

Dehnus4341d ago (Edited 4341d ago )

@PCpower:
Calling an I5 a weak Processor is really showing what kind of idiot you are. The top line I5's are every bit as potent as the I7 with the only difference being HyperThreading. Say you own a 3570 or 4570, of any form, they'll be getting the same benchmark as their I7 bigger brohter 3770 or 4770. The only difference usually being Hyper threading. So really calling an I5 weak is just marketing mumbo jumbo from your local PC salesman, that I5 will do you just fine.

LordDhampire4339d ago

WRONG! PCpower you are a fool, mantle hardly helps in BF4 because its not a CPU intensive game, but for a game with alot of particles and physyx then yes its going to strain a CPU alot even a i7 which I own, honestly my i7 is the only limiting factor in my pc because cpu's are so far behind gpu's.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 4339d ago
Magicite4341d ago

DX is a cumbersome dinosaur. I hope there will be more APIs like Mantle soon.

awi59514341d ago (Edited 4341d ago )

Unlike nividia amd doesnt gimp direct x to kill performance on other platforms. Mantle is a slider you turn on to use it just like in BF4. You can choose to use mantle or use direct x. It doesnt gimp direct x like Nivida does to amd.

Amd gives the player the choice to use it or not to, your game will run fine on both if your hardware can handle it. But nividia's way if your hardware can over power the game nividias gameworks will throttle your graphics card so it cant take advantage if it.
And there isnt anyway for them to fix it either because developers say nividia wont let them fix their own game to run better on AMD because it would violate nividas gameworks agreement.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 4339d ago
Cyb3r4342d ago

Is Mantle compatible with newgen consoles? (sorry if this is a dumb question)

Kayant4342d ago

It's not be AMD says it can however it's not needed as both API's in PS4 and XB1 have the same benefits. Remember mantle is meant to bring "console efficiency to PC" in the same lines DX12 is bringing it to PC/Mobile.

XB1 has a low level API already called DX11.X -
http://www.neogaf.com/forum...
" Under the hood, Forza achieves this by using the efficient low-level APIs already available on Xbox One today. Traditionally this level of efficiency was only available on console – now, Direct3D 12, even in an alpha state, brings this efficiency to PC and Phone as well."
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/dir...

PS4 has one called GNM -

"At the lowest level there's an API called GNM. That gives you nearly full control of the GPU. It gives you a lot of potential power and flexibility on how you program things. Driving the GPU at that level means more work."
http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...
http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

HighResHero4341d ago (Edited 4341d ago )

Mantle will have the most benefit on PCs. The new consoles have their own highly optimized, evolving APIs/Dev Kits. Considering AMD's collaboration with Sony(and MS talk of DX) one might assume that some of the Mantle technology will be present in the PS4 kits, but once again, Mantle is mostly to help get the most out of PCs. Some tech will be shared by both console's APIs though of course.
People are talking a lot about DX12(some possibly in response to AMD), which will also have more benefits on PCs, since they need way more help in terms of optimization. We will probably find out if it has any real world benefit for the XB or if they are just trying to create hype. Excuse the half asleep response.

(HAha, late response. Looks like Kayant took care of some links for you)

PCpower4341d ago (Edited 4341d ago )

Correction: Benefits PC's that have weak processors. You can look up the DirectX vs Mantle benchmarks and see that i7 processors gain very little performance with Mantle. All Mantle will do is give boost to weak processors to those who could not afford a $500 CPU. This will help gain them abilities to play games at better settings without needing a $500 CPU. So it will save on money mainly.

darksky4341d ago

Since XB1 will already be optimized with this king of technology I'm assuming MS will have gained alot of knowledge of Mantle to use in DX12.
If DX12 can match mantle or surpass it then it's a win for consumers thanks to AMD.

ChickeyCantor4341d ago

In all honesty, that demo did no look that complex. So what exactly caused DX to run so slow?

Seems like a biased move here.

Pandamobile4341d ago

There are tens of thousands of GPU-controlled ships flying around and killing each other.

Mantle, DX12 and the like are supposed to remove most of the CPU overhead from the rendering pipeline, which allows developers to have a much higher level of control over what parts of the computer handle what tasks.

This case shows how much of an impact the CPU overhead can have on a game.

ChickeyCantor4341d ago

I know what mantle does. Modern CPU's don't have issues controlling thousands of ships. that's not what this is about.

GPUs can easily render that which you see. The extreme framedrops are just biased. You can't tell me they used proper software. That what they demonstrated shouldn't be hard to handle.

PCpower4341d ago

This demo shows how weak processors struggle and will need Mantle. If it was an i7 then it would not struggle with the DirectX version.

http://www.techspot.com/rev...

Also, keep in mind that once you start to go above 1080P, then the GPU will start to become the bottleneck instead of the CPU. So Mantle will have no benefit at higher resolutions since the GPU will be maxed out to its fullest ability under DirectX or Mantle. So no gains.

ChickeyCantor4341d ago (Edited 4341d ago )

@PCpower

1080p is not a bottleneck on mid/high-end GPU's these days. So a low level api still has its benefits there.

Without mantle the frame rates would probably be even lower. A lower API is always good. I just don't understand the extreme framedrop from the demo. It just seems like pure PR talk.

PCpower4341d ago

@ChickeyCantor

Hence, the reason I said above 1080P.

darksky4341d ago

@ ChickyCantor,

If Modern CPU's could match GPU's then why do the cpu tests in 3Dmark run like sh*t?

ChickeyCantor4341d ago (Edited 4341d ago )

"If Modern CPU's could match GPU's then why do the cpu tests in 3Dmark run like sh*t?"

What the bloody hell?
No one insinuated that.

If that's the test is CPU vs GPU then AMD people aren't making a case here.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 4341d ago
kingduqc4340d ago

tlou has like 5-10 enemies on screen, this has 5000-10 000 i think it's fairly complex for the cpu..

ChickeyCantor4340d ago

Why did you even bother mention tlou? A moden CPU should be able to handle 5000-10000 enities, provided the code be written efficient.
Which btw still has nothing to do with mantle or directX.

AnEwGuY4341d ago

Have your fun while you can, AMD... DX12 is coming.

MrUnfamiler4341d ago

You say that like DX12 is godzilla & Mantle is Tokyo.

Anyways all DX12 is going to help is windows 8.1 users, wich aint very many on the grand scheme of things. If my choice is get 8.1 with DX12 or Keep 7 with mantle, it seems like a no-brainer.

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60°

Next-Gen Xbox on Track for 2027 Release According to AMD

AMD has mentioned that the next-gen Xbox is on track for release in 2027, which means we might be in the final year of the Series X|S.

109d ago
KicksnSnares109d ago

Xbox is dead. How are they making another console? Fake news lol

fr0sty108d ago (Edited 108d ago )

They might think taking a crack at the PC/console hybrid approach might work out for them... but with PS6 delayed until 2029 at least, there went the power advantage that paying all that extra money was supposed to afford them once PS6 does launch. Also, releasing a console right now is stupid with RAM prices as high as they are. Either we're gonna be forking out $1200-1500 for this thing, or it's going to get downgraded. It costs over $700 to put 64GB of RAM into a PC right now because all the AI datacenters are buying up ALL the RAM.

Maybe a select few gamers will be willing to fork out that much $ for a system that is more powerful than PS5 Pro, but most gamers are only just now feeling like PS5 is hitting its stride and still has a few years of life left in it before we need to move on to a new generation. Plus, by the time PS6 does launch, RAM prices will be stablizing, so PS6 will be able to put much more of its overall budget towards a more powerful GPU and CPU vs. having to spend such a large chunk of the budget just on RAM like the new Xbox will, assuming it does drop next year while still in the midst of this RAM crisis.

Reaper22_108d ago (Edited 108d ago )

People said the same thing about xbox 360 launching early but it turned out pretty good. Microsoft's R&D is much larger and more cash rich than Sony's. They have the money to do it. One of the reason Sony is waiting because they arent ready to spend billions more on hardware and the PS5 is still selling and that would definitely hurt their sales. Plus they just released Ps5 pro.
The series x isn't selling well so for Microsoft its a good time to get ready for next gen. The next console from xbox is gonna be for core gamers and no matter when sony launches it probably wont have many advances over Magnus if any at all. Im confident it will be on par or better than the next Playstation. Even the series x does features that ps5 or the pro still cant do. Sony shouldn't of released the PS5 pro. Imo its not needed and underwhelming. They could of used what they spent on that for the PS6

salis844108d ago (Edited 108d ago )

First, no one actually said that PS6 is delayed.

The rumor started with Tom Henderson saying he thought PlayStation might consider delaying the PS6 due to RAM prices. He specifically did not say that he heard that they were going to delay it or anything like that, it was 100% speculation, and he never implied otherwise.

That said, let them delay it, the PS5 Pro especially with FSR 4 coming in the next month or so, will be more than sufficient. There isn't going to be any publishers, including Microsoft, willing to skip PlayStation's user base, especially when publishers seem eager to put games on Switch 2 which is a significant step down even from the base PS5. So, the idea that having more power is really going to shift things in their favor is extremely hard to believe.

Microsoft can make as many consoles as they want, the issue is convincing people to buy them.

Both the PS5 and the Switch 2 sold double the amount of consoles in December that the SX sold in the entire year of 2025. And I doubt that a super expensive co-pilot box is going to help them, especially if you look at the lackluster sales AI equipped PC's have seen.

108d ago
Eonjay108d ago

The next Xbox issaid to have 36 GB of memory so the price short from ram should not be as apocalyptic as a 64 GB kit. With the PS6 coming in with 30 GB, the RAM should not be what makes the Xbox cost so much more. Of course without Microsoft subsidizing the console the actual MSRPs may diverge wildly.

fr0sty108d ago (Edited 108d ago )

32GB of DDR5 still costs in the neighborhood of $250-300 for the super cheap stuff, $450 for the name brand. That's what entire consoles used to cost. That eats up a huge chunk of the budget that was supposed to be paying for the CPU and GPU, which means that the cost of this system will be driven farther north than previously anticipated, and it was already expected to be above $1k. Releasing a console in the middle of an industry-wide RAM shortage is stupid. Even GPU makers are scaling back production because of it, and focusing their remaining stock and production towards selling to datacenters. Some memory manufacturers have dropped consumer products entirely and now only make chips for datacenters. Nvidia is scaling back its consumer GPUs, no longer offering the super series of some GPUs, for instance.

For MS to pull the trigger now means releasing at a very risky price point against a PS5 that is simply on fire, even outselling the Switch 2 in many cases. It's coming at a time where the Xbox brand is at its weakest ever, and consumer confidence in the brand is at absolute rock bottom. Nobody wants to drop $1500 on an Xbox when they can play the same games on their PS5 Pro for half the price already, or even cheaper if using a base PS5. Only a select few enthusiasts will bother to fork out that kind of money... by the time this product reaches a price point where it can have mass-market appeal, the PS6 will be dropping... but by that time, RAM prices will be dropping, so PS6 will now be able to, assuming it does delay until 2029, invest more into upgrading its architecture over the previously released spec, invest in more RAM than the new Xbox will have, a better CPU & GPU, etc.

As for nobody saying PS6 will launch in 2029, nobody said it would come sooner either, not officially, at least. As of now all we have to go by are rumors based on internal information that could easily change at a moment's notice. Even the design of the chip itself could change as it has not yet entered into production. They could easily opt to include a few more CUs, more RAM, more CPU cores, etc. between now and when it does officially enter production. So, MS could drop a new Xbox now, but it wouldn't be wise, at all, for them to do so if they plan on even holding a candle agains the juggernaut that will be PS6. PS5 will most likely mop the floor with it due to its price point alone.

And that's assuming MS even gives the green light to start manufacturing the console to begin with. We'll see in the coming months if production even happens. Microsoft's shareholders damn sure aren't going to be willing to subsidize anything at all after they just dumped $100b into buying game publishers, expecting to see a ROI, and not seeing it anywhere near as fast as they'd hoped, which is why we're now playing Xbox games on PS5.

As for MS sitting on RAM, they are sitting on some, but Xbox is sitting on none. Microsoft knows good and well they will make far more money putting that RAM into datacenters than they ever would putting it into a console that is already at a huge disadvantage before it even launches, and has little hope of generating a lot of sales.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 108d ago
Neonridr108d ago

It'll end up being a Windows based machine that utilizes an Xbox ecosystem as well to play their game library on. But you'll end up being able to buy games from places like Steam as well more than likely.

Would make the most sense honestly. Best of both worlds.

Agent75108d ago

Microsoft should just ditch Xbox and cash in on PC and PlayStation games, maybe even Switch 2. Apparently, they make a loss on hardware, so what's the point?

Reaper22_108d ago

How can this be? Xbox died already.

108d ago Replies(1)
mkis007108d ago (Edited 108d ago )

What Xbox was is dead. Long live Xbox. I mean Halo and fable are coming to PlayStation this year. Gears and forza are already there. I'm here for it. I will absolutely give MS publishing my money if they make good games.

108d ago Replies(1)
Elda108d ago

My XBOX Series X is my first & my last XB console.

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150°

NVIDIA DLSS 4 vs AMD FSR 4 Compared: Ray Reconstruction Makes FSR 4 Look Last-Gen

FSR 4 was a substantial improvement to AMD’s upscaling solution. It reduces ghosting, improves finer mesh retention, and particle effects. In most cases, it delivers similar visual quality to DLSS 4’s CNN model, but slightly worse than the newer transformer model.

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pcoptimizedsettings.com
dveio171d ago

Since FSR is open-source and nvidia's DLSS isn't, I'd personally always prefer FSR.

Frankly, I think all these differences are nice to know (and notice) about if you're playing at DF level. And I totally respect that very small need to max out performance.

But given the prices, I don't think any nvidia GPU advantage justifies paying 1000+ bucks. I don't see any game(s) exclusively (or not) available on PC that offer a fundamentally different and innovative gameplay experience.

Notellin171d ago

There's never a good reason to own any products from Nvidia. They are one of the most destructive and anti-consumer companies that's ever existed.

Anyone buying and using Nvidia is only contributing to the downfall and end of gaming as we know it now.

With the rise of Nvidia all we've seen is price gouging while their products that continue to become less power efficient and their performance gains are so miniscule you'd need a 100x microscope to notice the AI upscaling. Pathetic really.

Tapani170d ago

Why do you need to pay 1000 bucks for an Nvidia GPU? You can find one that is faster than the PS5 Pro at 400 bucks, RTX 5060 ti 16GB, and it has better upscaling, more VRAM, multiframe generation and RT.

Gamersunite880171d ago

DLSS will always be better. FSR sucks.

__y2jb170d ago

The examples given look essentially identical.

babadivad170d ago

Exactly. Headline says FSR looks like last gen. Implying it's years behind the competition. Article says it's slightly behind.

Examples shown, the difference are barely discernible.

derek170d ago

I dont know about anyone else, but I've never had 2 screens playing at the same time to know the difference in performance of a given game. It's like those TV screen comparisons, virtually nobody in the real world engages does this, lol. Performance seems comparable to me. Besides Nvidia is no longer interested in the gaming products, its full steam ahead with "AI".

Tapani170d ago (Edited 170d ago )

Yeah, but the gaving division is still 8.5% of their global revenue, and they just made 30% YoY topline growth per quarter. A 11.35 billion business is absolutely massive, and this will continue to increase. That means there's 11.35bn reasons why they won't stop the gaming business, nor lose their focus on it. It's also their pivot if things do not go as well in the AI race. By end of 2026, they have DOUBLED the gaming division business in 5 years.

FY 2025 $11.35 billion 8.6%
FY 2024 $10.45 billion 15.2% (approx)
FY 2023 $9.07 billion -7.5% (approx)
FY 2022 $9.82 billion (approx) 49.6% (approx)
FY 2021 $6.5 billion (approx) 61.1% (approx)

MrDead170d ago

I've been lucky enough to get a new 5090 build in March, glad I went with Nvidia. Cyberpunk looks amazing.

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100°

AMD's RX9070 XT crushes Nvidia's RTX 5080 in Call of Duty: Black Ops 7 benchmarks - Story Mode

The 9070XT matches or beats Nvidia's much more expensive 5080 in CoD: BO7 benchmarks. A rare win for AMD. The article also takes a closer look at 9600X vs 9800X3D performance.

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storymode.info
wesnytsfs224d ago

No ray tracing might be why.

Runechaz224d ago

Ray tracing is useless in a fps

thecodingart224d ago

Came looking for dumb comments - found them

Zenzuu224d ago

Not every game needs to have ray tracing.

Darkseeker224d ago

I'd even say no games need to have it. It's just a ressource hog.

Blad3runner00224d ago (Edited 224d ago )

Why does the article use misleading terms like "Crushes" and "The 9070 XT "HANDILY BEATS" the more expensive RTX 5080" ? It even admits it at the end of the article, yet keeps the terms lol

Looking at the graph, the difference is only 4-19fps, depending on the settings.

I would hardly call a 4-19fps difference, "crushes" or "handily beats" and no one is going to buy a 9070 over a 5080 for COD alone. How does the 9070 fair in other games compared to the 5080?

OpenGL224d ago

I think they exaggerate because people like when a product punches above its weight, especially from an underdog, but yeah it's not a huge difference. There are plenty of games where the 5080 is significantly faster.

wesnytsfs224d ago

That is basically what the 5090 does compared to the 4090. I dont consider it crushing either and decided to keep my 4090 over geting the 5090 with its small increase of FPS.

OpenGL223d ago

That's a no brainer, the 5090 is definitely the fastest card on the market but the 4090 is the second fastest, so it's still extremely powerful.