We have games like Burnout Paradise & COD4 don't even need an install and it plays just as good or better then the other version. It's really standing out that most ports are requiring these installs. It's good to see that games like GTAIV are using them to stop pop ups but it's really bad to see games use installs and they help the loading times a little. It seems like devs that really know how to harness the PS3 power are the ones getting PS3 games with no load times and making them AAA titles (besides GTAIV & MGS4). MGS4 is on a 50GB. That game definitely has a pass with an install.

What pisses me off the most is when BAD games need to install.

im pretty sure that if the PS3 had a 4x BD drive instead of a 2x BD drive, bots wouldnt be spinning this right now. the DVD rom drive at 1x=10.5Mbits/sec compared to Blu-ray which is 1X=36 Mbits/s

the 360 spins at 12X multiply that by 10.5, you get 126 Mbits/s
the PS3 spins at 2X multplay that by 36 Mbits/s you get 72Mbits/s, reason why the console spins at that rate is because its a first Generation BD drive, other than that its biggest advantage is capacity, which allow devs to do lots of things, like streaming. but seriously if Sony upgraded the console's disc drive to 4x, you guys wouldnt be talking by now

Yes, installs are terrible.
They save wear and tear on the disc drive, they allow for a better experience vs. no install (cross plats)...but oh noes, what of the HDD space that it takes up?
What's that? You can delete old data off of a hard drive?
Well, what of those few precious minutes of my life that I'm not gaming? I'll never get those back!

What a cruel world we live in.

I much rather that it would be optional.

Heaven forbid you ever play a game on a PC!

that's gonna be nuts :p specially if my ps3 library (lmao) matches my ps2 library.

and honestly 360 owners can't complain about the ps3's mandatory installs.

all 360 owners with more than 10 games know what happens when you put in a title you haven't played in a while and are connected to xbl.

people remember its the dev that are doing this because uncharted the best looking game on PS3 has no install people need to stop blaming sony and the PS3.

we get faster game loads

but they shouldn't be mandatory.

...Why is this such a big deal?
Ya know, people should go outside, get a breath of fresh air and by the time they come back, the installation would be complete. It's not like these installs take you an entire day.

You know I remember not too long ago PS3 owners were toting this point to spite 360 fans. "My system has an HDD so my games can load faster than yours! haha take that 360 fanboys!" and all that rot. Now that those installs are actually taking up lots of HDD space everybody's complaining about it. I don't mind installs. If they're that big of a deal, buy a bigger HDD. Of not that, delete a game you haven't played for a while. I'm betting some of you aren't playing DMC4 in lieu of MGS4 coming out. Agreed with Whoooop up there. Should be optional but not mandatory.

get over it already, who cares about installs, if it makes my games run better then i'm all for it, shut the hell up about it and enjoy all the great games.
geez

Until a game proves the reason why installs are better I will be against it...

I want to see that game on the PS3 that is also available on the xbox 360... that requires install on the PS3 that blows the xbox 360 version out of the water in terms of graphics, loading and performance.... So far games that require install on the xbox 360 do not improve textures, loading over the xbox 360 version... if the xbox 360 can run, and the games look and perform similar.. why can the xbox 360 version have no install and the PS3 does?

Until proven otherwise with facts.. by comparing the xbox 360 (no installs) with PS3 version (mandatory installs) and showing that the PS3 version have a huge improvement over the xbox 360 in terms of loading... graphics, etc... this would simply proves that it's nothing more than a blu-ray workaround to make the game playable..

people talk about, " makes my games run better"... can you prove it?

Here is a video comparison loading... between GTA4 PS3 (requires install) and xbox 360 GTA4(no installs)..

http://www.gametrailers.com...

the xbox 360 loads faster... now what?

far installing Bourne conspiracy onto the ps3 is 5gigs imagine how big resistance 2 and killzone 2 will be

I like the originality of being able to play your games right out the package

as long as it has 1080p and i can play it on a big screen with some snacks and a soda im good 2 go

tell me, what is the sense of having 50gig blu-ray if you still need to install the games?

consoles are for gaming and have never required a HDD just to play he games. Now again, because SOny says it's needed you sonydroids have to believe it??

what else does it take to get it through your brainwashed heads!! look at gta4, oblivion, devil may cry, lost planet, and burnout! all run on the 360 without a hdd install. The HDD should be for updates, expansions, playing online, or saving games. (like burnout)

as much as sonyfans may want to admit it or not, 360 proved you do not need a HDD to enjoy AAA games in HD.
And Sony should have just included a much faster blu-ray drive.

A HDD install for games on consoles should be an option, not mandatory.

5GB install? What a hardship.

You guys better hope Age of Conan never comes to the PS3. ;)

SDF is at it again. If the shoe was on the other foot then you PS3 owners would be talking sh!t. You can't defend preinstalling. You just can't. Sony f*cked up by going with Blu-Ray instead of DVD. Spin all you want. But stop being hipocrites. All Blu-Ray is good for is HD movies. It actually hurts the performance of games so much that developers are forced to require mandatory preinstalls. How can you guys defend waiting an extra year for Blu-Ray and spending $200.00 more at launch for the same graphics??? Has Sony seriously brainwashed you guys so much that you let your brand loyalty make you blind to Blu-Ray's shortcomings???

PREINSTALL B3YOND

I honestly have no problem with Game Installs, it's not like PS3 owners can't upgrade their hard drives past 120GB like Xbox 360 owners because 120GB is the largest hard drive that Microsoft supplies. There's 250GB hard drives I could buy, heck, I could even put a 500GB hard drive in my PS3.

I'm not going to waste my money on games like Bourne that require game installations because they aren't worth my hard drive space. When it comes to games like MGS4, Resistance 2, and Killzone 2, I'll gladly allow as much hard drive space as it takes.

The ONLY reason why the Xbox 360 doesn't have mandatory game installs is because every Xbox 360 isn't shipped with a Hard drive and developers don't know how many people with 360's actually have Hard drives. When developers know that every PS3 has a hard drive, they can implement the mandatory game installs.

Can't deny any of what you just said

While I think right now they aren't really a problem, they don't need to get any worse. I agree, I don't want the PS3 to be like a PC.

However, if a mandatory install means a much better gaming experience, then by all means go for it, but please keep it under control.

how the sony folks say, "go get some air while the game installs" or some dumb crap like that. When I want to sit down and play my game after getting back from the store with it I just got plenty of fresh freaking air and I want to try my brand new game. You cannot justify your ps3 shortcomings.

I guess PC gaming has been going overboard for 10+ years then. Its so easy to expand your space on a Ps3 anyway, why do people b*tch about something so ridiculous?

This person thinks that a 10% increase doesn't justify an install.

Mate, every bit counts when you are trying to optimize something as a developer.

If you could get 10% more fps? would you do it? yes.

Will it take some hard drive space? Yes, but why not, its not like I complain about having a small HD when I download too much. I just buy a new one.

Is this cost going to cause the end user much problems? not really.

We are JUST getting started. Welcome to the new age. Any PC gamer will tell you this is a very good way to do things. The developers are not idiots, If they have HDD space they will TAKE ADVANTAGE of it to run the game better.

i guess there are a couple of ways to look at this.

NO, you do not need Blu-ray for games this Gen.

YES, its great to have the extra space, BUT at what cost?
- Sony launched a year after MS and gave MS a big headstart and as a result are still in third place.
- Their console will always be priced much higher than the comp because of the added blu-ray making it impossible to reach that mass market they had the last two gens.
- In order to add blu-ray and keep costs down, Sony put the slowest blu-ray drive, thus resulting in mandatory installs.

Did Sony accomplish their goal, the successor format to DVD? YES

Is it great to have the added blu-ray drive for movies? hell yeah

Its getting a bit over the top because if every game does it, it all adds up, and uses your whole HDD. The problem is, what do you do? If a devs wants to use it I say use it. If its better for the game. Thats why its there. You cant say one dev can and one dev cant.

The solution? Either uninstall the games you are done with, (no one play more than 4 or 5 games at a time) or better yet, get a bigger HDD. God, they made it easy enough for you, and have encourage swapping it out before. At least you have the option. I have to delete stuff on my Xbox just to download a demo. Get a 200GB HDD and be done with it.

Thank Sony for paving the way

At least give me an OPTION...my HDD is filled to the brim with movies/concerts/TV Shows(even whole series of them) already. Until I get some spare change to upgrade my HDD I would be content with having an option. I have 4000 mb left for MGS4. I hope thats enough cause I can't stand deleting my stuff.

Anything that improves the performance of a game is *good*. I'd rather have them use the whole system and squeeze out every bit of power they can.

This incessant whining is really getting old. :P

This clearly shows the horrible data transfer rate of BluRay drives in the PS3. No wonder why they made it manditory that every PS3 has a HDD is because of the brutally slow Bluray Drives.

Just think of all the people that bought the 20 GB version of the PS3, what, can only get 3 games on your PS3 before you have to delete the game. What a joke. People with the 40 GB can only get 7 or 8 games with nothing else on the HDD, no videos or music, no nothing.

BluRay players, good for movies, but not so good for gaming.

MGS IV requires 4.5GB of space not 4GB. You'll need to delete some things.

Sorry. Had this mandatory install (Which is becoming the norm now) trended like this on the 360 it would never be let down. I'm not inciting anything, I'm just telling the truth.

I for one am not in favor of the mandatory installs as with some of your own content plus demos plus installs your HD will fill up quick. Same way Im against MS for charging so stinkin much for their accessories. And please don't say, well just go out there and buy a 250gb hd. The whole point of gaming consoles were to make gaming simple and easy.

Installs aren't a big deal. Still, I wish I had an 80 gig....

I wanted to get a PS3 for Killzone a Resistance 2 but the $400 verison is the only one in my price range. I can't spend $400 for a console and another $70 on a HDD. After about 8 games my HDD will be full. I hope something gives or I will on get a few PS3 games. I don't game on Pc's because of this and other reasons.

people moan about paying for live but when SONY make it so you HAVE to upgrade your HDD its like the second coming of Christ? Also is it true that by upgrading your HDD in a PS3 you invalidate your warranty? Heard that on here once

Some Ps3-adepts wiil say "Ha-ha, I installed 1TB HDD in my PS3 and have no problems". But I think that game installation it is not a console feature - it is a PC anachronism and if I want to have problems due to lack of free space I won't buy PS3 I will proceed using my PC.

Why is this even an issue damn people find everything to complain about. An HDD install is not an issue. 1st off you only do it once. 2nd it's for our own good. 3rd We were all happy the PS3 comes with an HDD standard so whats the problem when devs use it? Did you think you would only use it for porn?

I for one don't care as it helps make my games better.

Im gonna have no space left hardly after installing MGS4 :(.

Lame negative ps3 article #8234 for the week.

MGS4....

Wow, enough with this "concern" from the Xboxers. They're really the only ones that care about PS3 installs.

When the next generation of games consoles come out i want 1 version of it not 5 different kinds

I wanna be able to stick in a game and play that game within 30 seconds

I want the game and all its contents to be unlocked from the get go and it to work like they used to.

In their charge for supremacy Sony and Microsoft are trying to outdo each other (which is a good thing) but its us consumers who want to be able to plug and play

If we wanted to install or have differing versions of our gaming platform we'd be PC gamers.........

I get a independent wallpaper and I have independant media on my list of games!

You know what that is?
Its when I put my game in the background on my TV turns into a wallpaper of the game im about to play!
On the XMB there is my list of games & they all have HD video running at the same time with music!

That Alone is worth the 5 minute Install in my opinion!
What the hell beats that?
Xbox 360? where the tray reads the game and lets you know the game you put in title. Thats so lame because I think people know what game they have in their system.

When it was announced that _every_ PS3 would have a hard drive, people rejoiced. 'Devs will be able to take advantage of the Hard Drive knowing it's in every single PS3'. Now that they're actually doing it people are complaining.

Look, each dev has their own reason for doing it, install/no install, mandatory/not mandatory, and none of us has an real factual information on why each of them does it. We can speculate, whine, complain, praise until we're blue in the face but in the end, it's all just conjecture and a waste of time.

If I've already waited months for a game, an extra 20 minutes for an install when I get home isn't going to kill me. The space issues is no big deal for me because I replaced my 60Gb with a 320Gb HD. I've always wanted more space for 'stuff' which is why I didn't get a 360 until the Elite came out.

If Dev 'X' needs to do an install because they couldn't figure out any other way to optimize the game (duplicating data on different areas of the BluRay, etc.) then so be it. I still want to play the game and I'm still going to buy it. Mandatory installs won't ever stop me from buying a game I really want, and it shouldn't stop anyone else either.

There's quite a few games that I have already beaten and then I just delete the install. For example, GT Prologue. I don't play it anymore so I deleted it, heck I might even trade it in.

When playing GTA4 how long does it take you to get into the actual game?

It takes me over 2 minutes on my 360. If I had the option to do a 10 minute install to cut down 30 seconds of loading time, I'd more them oblige.

Also

How many of you have the arcade bundle? Can you play Halo 3 co-op without the damn HDD? Cause I can't!? Apparently its something that requires the HDD, thanks for sneaking that secret in there M$.

Here is a link reporting Crackdown, but the last time I checked, its the same with H3.

http://www.xbox360fanboy.co...

"it is a PC anachronism" Have fun playing co-op without your "PC anachronism"

It's technology, streaming data over different paths instead of having a bottleneck. Which is exactally what the Blu-ray and DVD player in the consoles are.

Hell if I could remove loading times by streaming data from the publisher though my NIC I'd be all for it.

"installs should be an option. "

I can see what you're saying but developers are the ones to choose, not users. They use what they think works best.

"if sony would have put in a faster drive this wouldn't have been a problem. "

I don't understand where this is coming from. My 360 loads just as fast (or slow) as my PS3, most of the time, and not all games require an install. It's the developers who choose to use the HD to make their lives easier or the game run better.

For one Uncharted is pushing the hardware because you have no install and no loading throughout the game. So I guess the drive is fast enough in that case.

"and being a sonydroid, you've already accepted it because Sony says so. "

But since I'm a "Sonydroid" I shouldn't own a 360 right? I also shouldn't own Bioshock, Gears, Halo.
I must be burning on the inside touching an Xbox.

But back to MY problem. Co-op without a HDD? ANY Xbox "Fanboy" want to take a crack at that one?

Big deal. I don't understand why people complain about them. If your complaining on this site then you already know if any particular game has a mandatory install. So when you get it do something else while its loading. If its cause your running out of space then use tversity, buy a bigger hard drive or an external hard drive for your music, videos and pictures. If its for your games then delete older games your not using anymore. Only takes a few minutes to reinstall older games if you get a craving to play them again. People just love any opportunity to complain about the smallest crap.

This not a problem for me at all Even on A 40GB Drive i installed a 120Gb immediately when i got mine last Friday and added 37 GB of music and added two demos and some movies and installed GTA4 and i still have 50Gb of Space Left

$500 on the PS3 itself. Now I'm going to need to spend another $100 to upgrade the drive. Something about that isn't right. Enough with the installs already, it's a console, not a PC ffs.

Seriously, 90% of the griping and moaning about install times seems to be coming from 360 fanboys looking to complain about a system they don't own.

If you're too impatient to wait a few minutes for an install perhaps you should find yourself a used SNES somewhere.

I don't care if it takes a few minutes. So do all the clips, trailers, demos and everything else I download or install.

And if I go back to playing an old game a few months/years down the road, I'll just re-install it, plain and simple. Been doing that on my PC for a decade.

but the complaining about them sure as hell is. GET OVER IT!!!

people need to come up with something better to complain about now because this one is getting weak.

"you obviously not informed, the blu-ray drive runs at like 2x while the 360 drive runs at like 12x, big difference"

You do understand that 2x Blu does not = 2x DVD right?

Blu-ray 2x: 72Mbp / 8MBps
12x DVD: 66 - 132Mbps / 8.2 - 16.5MBps

This being said DVD's run at an CAV which means that you only get full speed 16.5MBps the closer the lens is to the edge of the disk.

Blu-ray disks run at an CLV which means throughout the whole disk you get a constant speed of 8MBps. Still not up to the 12x dvd but much faster then what you're implying.

Take that into consideration with streaming off of the HDD and loading times will hopefully become non-existent.

"my brother has a core 360 and only owns gears of war and halo3, and we play co-op at this house. does that answer your question. see for yourself since you have those games."

My bad I meant to say ONLINE Coop is unavailable to me, for some unknown reason.

I don't really have any problem with having to install. If it take 10 minutes, so be it. I bought a 60 gig, so I'm not really worried about space right now, maybe later down the road but I can just upgrade then.

Yes, install times, get over it. This is most ridiculous 'enduring' complaint I've heard as people act like it's a huge chore or something.

Complaining about install times is nothing but looking for an excuse to whine about something that doesn't really matter. If you can honestly sit there and say that an install time diminishes the value or enjoyability of a game then you have issues.

Stop b!tching and just by a 250GB HDD for ur ps3.

People whining about the wait can f*** themselves. It's a 20 minute wait AT MOST. Buy a new HD for 60 bucks at newegg

'40GB for most of us is big enough to store many of your videos, music, pictures…….unless….we have to share it with something else, game installs.'

This is a crisis of epic proportions, no doubt, but it's just a smokescreen to keep us all from considering an even larger travesty...

Our TiVos and iPods don't play next gen games...

I've got a gut feeling this is all a small part of a much larger right wing conspiracy...

I hate the installs, personally. But I can live with them.

Interminably long load sequence in Grand Theft Auto IV for the ps3? They show that opening montage EVERY single time you start the game.

Now that Jim Ryan is gone just need to remove Herman Hulst from his position! And maybe give Shuhei the position he deserved.

This gen hasn't been the best for games, last gen consoles are still out there and now there's been talk of the PS6 and Xbox Two for a year or so. Many games this gen will be ported to next gen and the cycle will continue. The re-release of the Neo Geo AES+, games on cartridge for £70 ($95), gaming is going back in time. Gaming has gone pricing mad with the high cost of games, consoles and controllers. The men and women at the top are clueless.

It’s always interesting to hear behind-the-scenes stories like this, especially involving veterans like Shuhei Yoshida and leadership figures like Jim Ryan. That said, there are usually multiple sides to decisions at that level. It could be less about not “listening” and more about differences in long-term vision for PlayStation. Yoshida played a huge role in shaping the brand, so whatever the reason, his impact is undeniable.

If true, and I'm inclined to believe it is, it goes to show that Sony lost their way when they became more western/didn't respect the PlayStation origin story. Andrew House and Jack Tretton did great work, but they also didn't try to fundamentally change the PlayStation DNA. Ryan oversaw the death of Japan Studio and a live service direction.

I already figured this, good lord imagine if Shuhei took over instead, would've been a platinum era 😩

I miss the first three generations of PlayStation. The way they turned PS3 around, we knew they meant business. We were all worried for a bit there around launch. Eventually from 2008 they started shifting slowly. But since Yoshida was fired, it's never been the same. Still enjoy my PS5 daily. I got a backlog dating back to PS2 lol So I'm fine but new games aren't as appealing anymore.

It seems like we were thrown on to the worst timeline possible where everything is too expensive and the wrong people were put in positions that makes the world a shitty place. We could have had Shu as the head of PS but we got the shitty alternative. Same goes for everyone in power around the world. Doesn’t matter the company or country the majority of us got the shitty picks and the world is declining like never before. I do think PS can come out of this because of their studios, talent and IP but they need someone more in touch with gamers leading things like Shu was. They’re still the best place for console gaming imo but it could be much better than it is especially without the massive live service failures. The rest of the world I have a lot less hope for right now. Hopefully the pendulum swings back towards the good ole days but I’m preparing for the worst.

There goes illuminati distraction story

So now there's certifiable proof that Ryan was in fact "fired", as opposed to when it was first announced that he "retired", in order to save face.

There's another guy who recently "retired" as CEO of another large gaming company, after doing a dismantling job as lead for well over a decade.

seems legit, the business man, fires the one who has ideas to move the business forward.

Jim Ryan is the reason why we are entering year 6 since the PS5 launch and many of us don't feel like the PS5 has gotten started as yet.

I hope going forward, we will see a return to form.