Was anyone surprised by this piece of news? I mean, you even have to pay if you want to use Skype, which is owned by MS (and you can use it for free even on the PS VITA)

So many dumb dumbs in here.

It doesn't matter whether you need PSN or Live Gold or not.

People with a PS4 will pay for PSN regardless and people with an XB1 will pay for Gold regardless.

The end result is that everyone will pay.

Truefan is butthurt because Plus offers a ridiculous value for $50 a year and you don't even need it to play a lot of the F2P games and now ESO. Gold on the other hand nets you a 3 year old + game every month and that's about it. I have both and Plus kills it.

Sssshhh, you're not allowed to say anything negative about Microsoft. The comment police will come in here and try to tell you what you're allowed to say and they just can't take any more Microsoft negativity no matter how deserved it is.

Literally no one should be surprised by this. Microsoft would put turning on the Xbox One behind the Gold paywall if they could. I'm surprised they actually haven't included some kind of credit card or Xbox Live card debit machine that you have to buy with your Xbox One so that you can swipe the card and pay for Live just to turn on the console.

"paying for bullets"

They actually already do this in some games online.

PS4 is the best place for multiplats, and now apparently the best place for MMOs and F2P (considering the fact that PS4 has significantly MORE of those games, both now and coming down the pipeline).

The thing is, MMOs have not been popular on consoles...yet. If PS4 can corner the market for console F2P and console MMOs, they're going to dominate even more than they already are.

All games that are online require XBL, why would this not require live to work? I like how everything is just blown up now-a-days.

@Milruka I remember seeing a game that you spent real money for ammo.If I recall you could actually make money also.Winner got some cash, haven't heard anything about it since then though.

As for the topic when I play MMO's I tend not to play other games.I invest lots of time in them and don't really need to pay for PS+ or Live for other games.Having said that I understand there are all kinds of gamers, some cant play one game only for 3 month straight some can.

And maybe fuel knowing EA.

I'm disappointed. I was hoping Septic would post on here.

No Restrictions > Restrictions.

@CoolBeansRus:

What sort of defence is 'MS always do this' when the accusation is 'MS always do this'? That's an odd post.

I swear MS fanboy take the cake for taking it up the arse and saying more please, they seem to enjoy the crap they take and never tire of it.

I cant imagine this news came as a surprise to anyone at all, MS are such a dirty greedy company, no wonder they have all the money in the world to waste on crap like GeOW.

STFU don't give them ideas

One more nail in the coffin for the XB1.

At least MS's coffin will be extremely reinforced, ought to be more nails than wood at this point.

What's worse about EA possibly taking up on those ideas..... a small percentage of gamers would actually buy into that stupid skiz wiz.

@ Miya - Exactly. A huge number of people buy these consoles and never play online.

truefan, dsswoosh, and coolbeans are clueless.

Allsystemgamer They, EA has already talked about that. I'm too lazy to look up the clip but it's on Youtube.

And golf balls in Tiger Woods.

How much do you wanna bet that after hearing about this, microsoft changes it so that you don't need a gold account?

If the xbox community is smart they would be reading micrisoft the riot act right about now because of this.

Yea I have to wonder about that too. PS+ is required to play online. How many PS4 owners will buy a PS4 and not pay for +. I'm sure the numbers can't be that high.

Everything behind a paywall is nothing new for any 360 owner since Live is required to do anything. And more than likely any Xbox One owner would have their 360 tag transferred over.

How come a lot of sony fanboys are more interested with this than Xbox fanboys?

You guys are all upset about this and want the Xbox community to do something about it but gladly accepted pay to play online for PS4. Shouldn't you be raging to Sony about that?

If I were to gather my friends and light some torches it would be about Sony charging for online access on the PS4. The service didn't change for PS4 to make it mandatory and you get much less bang for the buck if you are a PS4 console owner without a PS3 or Vita.

Once that is addressed I'll grab some of my Xbox friends and petition Microsoft to make access to Elder scrolls not included with my Live sub.

I have to agree. Microsoft just purchased Gears for a reported 100 million but they wont give their members better content on Live. They have the money to purchase all sorts of content for Live. They need to be more customer focused. I think they will change course though.

Edit @death...

While it is true (about PS3 being a better value than PS4 with PS+) please note that the PS4 just came out. Anyway I fully support that petition for Elder Scrolls. Even as a PS guy I want the best for all gamers. So if you make it I will sign.

@ Death

Well said. Its easy to spot the hypocrites on this thread. They talk crap about MS and surprisingly (not really because they're hypocrites)) they somehow forget that online play for most PS4 games is behind a paywall forcing PS4 owners to pay for PS plus.

These same hypocrites were the ones that last gen were preaching that they would never pay for online and were constantly taking jabs at MS and 360 owners at every oportunity they got but now that Sony is doing the same, it becomes acceptable. Its amazing (not really because they're hypocrites) how fast they've changed their tune.

@imamalwaysright

How are you forced? If you want to play online for free then there is Warframe, Blacklight, DC Universe with Planetside 2, FF 14 and TESO.

However what if you don't want to play online but want to use Netflix?

Can you do this for free on PS4 yes

Can you do this for free on X1? No

THAT is the difference also I can't speak for everyone as I have been a plus member since it started but the games you get as part of the service, as well as the none paywall of none gaming features makes paying for plus a less bitter as you can get a lot out of it without it.

The same can't be said for X1.

Also the free PSN was SLATED by 360 fanboys for being inferior to their paid service. Sony have already gone on record to say that money will be spent from plus subs to improve PSN.

So why you think people are being hypocrites is beyond me. Maybe if you actually knew the pros and cons of both you would see Plus is a far superior service for gamers as it's main purpose is its amazing Instant Game Collection.

Mr writer...

So Netflix was the deciding factor for you? I totally agree that ps+ is a much better value you get a crazy amount of free games but that doesn't answered why online play isn't free anymore and that value is only good if you have a ps3 and vita too..

@ Mr_Writer85

How aren't you forced to pay for PS+ if you want to play the online portion of most ps4 games that are and will be available on the market? What is so different about paying full price for killzone SF and being forced to pay for PS+ to access its online than paying a monthly subscription for this game and then being forced to pay for Live to be able to play it? In either case aren't consumers already paying to play the game before being forced to pay to access the online?

Also I'm talking about online play, not netflix or any other feature so I don't understand why you're bringing them up. What I'm discussing here, is that if you want to play most PS4 games online you are forced to pay for Plus.

Now I ask: where are those hypocrites that last gen were taking jabs at 360 gamers and telling everyone that they would never pay to play online? Why aren't they demanding for Sony to make online play free like it still is on the PS3?

"you get much less bang for the buck if you are a PS4 console owner without a PS3 or Vita"

And yet you still get more bang for your buck than if you're an XBL Gold member with only an Xbone.

And of course, if you DO have a PS3, well... I don't think any more needs to be said.

Now I'm just itching waiting for the Vita 2000 to be released in the west so I can put that huge PS+ Vita backlog to use (and the Remote Play).

Lets not forget that one account that has Gold on an Xbox One makes all accounts on that Xbox One also have gold.

@Death

You can blame Microsoft and Xbox 360 gold subscribers for Sony making PS+ mandatory for online play.

It's only because 360 owners showed they were willing to be be ripped off that Sony went ahead and charged for online. It would have been stupid of them not to charge for online when consumers have shown they were willing to pay.

@MarkusMcNugen

PS+ works the exact same way. You only need one account per console with a PS+ Sub.

Drm push was initiated by devs not MS. PS4 would have been too if not for them being able to listen to the bad feedback at E3 for DRM befire they had they're keynote

@iamalwaysright

MOST not ALL

The difference is there. If you want to play Killzone Shadow fall online yes you do, yet you then get Resogun AND (ATM) Don't Starve plus more games included in that price.

So how is having to pay MOST (not all) games, but then loads of games added to your collection a bad thing?

Here's a point.

I have a lot more disposable income then my best friend we both have a PS4, yet he cant afford plus yet and he can't always afford to buy the same games as me.

Yet despite this we game online together on our PS4's three times a week.

Would the same be possible on X1? We can still message each other and even party chat. Can the same be said for X1 as I remember even messaging your friends was behind a paywall at one point.

No so they are not the same.

End

You should change your name to Ihaventacluewhatimtalkingabout

Much more suited.

@Death - "how many people play online in games like this, but do not want to play online in other games?"

Lots of people play games like this and can't stand other kinds of online games, but even if they want to play something else there are already several types of games that will have free online play without PS+.

"Live has always been needed for online access since it ties gamers together. There are no exclusions to when your friends can't access you. It doesn't matter if you are watching a Blu-ray, Netflix, Live TV or in a subscription based MMO. The service is always running in the background keeping you connected to your friends."

An excellent point against XBL in my book. Who says "always online" went away?

"At some point it becomes irrelevant where the "paywal" exists if you are paying anyway"

All you guys really need a clue about how many people bought 360s vs how many paid for XBL Gold. It's less than half, so stop this whole "Anyone who buys a console will take it online" shtick please. More things behind a paywall = bad. Less things behind a paywall = good. Why is that so hard to understand?

Lastly, you geniuses are the reason PS users have to pay to play online in most games now, so bringing it up isn't a great argument for you to make. Maniac wants to know why PS users are interested in this? I just explained it.

@ Mr Writer85

1st my comment is directed at all the n4g hypocrite users, not your friend.

2nd I acknowledge that most, not all PS4 games online portion are behind a paywall.

3rd you're again bringing up other features when i'm strictly talking about online play that will be behind a paywall for 95% of the PS4 library.

4th I'll change my username as soon as you change yours to "MR I should really stop making useless replies to other users"

@Ihaventacluewhatiamtalkingabo ut

But if those "hypocrites" are slamming MS for putting none gaming features and ALL online gaming behind a pay wall how are they being hypocrites for using a service that doesn't put all online gaming or none gaming features behind a paywall?

P.S my friends situation is an example of how Plus and Live are not the same so you can't be a hypocrite for critasizing two different things.

LMAO I have no clue? Irony must be your bff.

I joined this site in 2007 not in 2012 like yourself and countless times I witnessed the hypocrites talking crap about 360 gamers because they paid to play online throughout the entire gen.

I was one of those users that kept taking jabs at MS for forcing consumers to pay for online and all the users that defended it.

Now just because Sony doesn't force us to pay for online for a few select games it somehow becomes acceptable to the hypocrites to pay for ALL the other titles?

By all means, keep believing that paying for the online of 95% of games instead of 100% is some sort of moral victory that gives you an excuse to act like elitist douchebags towards gamers that choose to play on MS consoles but to me being forced to pay for online for 95% of games is just as anti-consumer as paying to play for 100% of them and my goalposts didn't change just because Sony is now forcing their user-base to pay for online.

Edit Man you're dense... Again my comments are directed at the hypocrite n4g users, not your friend and I'm strictly talking about online play being behind a paywall, not the perceived value of either service.

@ivebeenheresincr2007writingut ternonsense.

I may of only been commenting since 2012 but how do you know I haven't been visiting for longer as a none commenter? Also that has no baring on the argument.

But ok let's play fair IF Plus was purely an online service you point would be valid.

But it's not so your comments are not valid.

The fact you have to ignore everything else that is added to plus makes your point laughable. You can't compare and only a fanboy would argue anyway.

Online play isn't even Plus main selling point it's the IGC

And as for calling ME dense? Again my friend was an EXAMPLE, I never once claimed it was aimed at him. I simply used his situation as an EXAMPLE (see it's there again) of how the two services are DIFFERENT.

So after dropping a bollock twice now you are the last person to be calling me dense as you have been clearly shown up for the raging fanboy you are.

Looking more like uralwayswrong

I understand there are people who said they wouldn't pay for online but you aren't even addressing what's being said just trying to force your narrow sighted view without looking at the full picture.

You agree with Death about "lighting torches cause Sony charges for online" I wonder where the idea came from? Isn't that also hypocritical?

IMO XBLG was a better service until after PS+ first year.....After that with what PS+ offers now with party and XGC across both Vita and PS4 not locked behind ps+ also instant game collection.....you benefit much more paying for PS+ than XBLG

If u disagree I willing to listen to all facts why it isn't currently better.....and Sony fans should thank MS ironically for forcing Sonys hand into creating a much better service that benefits the gamer much more

There is a such thing as perceived value and IMO last gen MS locked many things behind XBLG to try and raise it value....this is why people I know that play multiple consoles hated, not just it being a fee....Calling people hypocrites without knowing everyones reasoning for their XBLG dislikes takes an enormous amount of assumtion

@Death

Sony inability to milk me for profit is none of my concern. There sub plan is better from a gamer's perspective than Live. It nice that you are so concerned about Microsoft turning profits on you back but I could really care less. @50 PS+ on PS4 is a better value than Live on Xbox One. You can't be wrong about it being better on PS3 because PS3 has way more content available period. Within a year, PS+ on PS4 will be stacked with content. We all know it. Also, the content on PS+ is fully funded by member subs so it's not coming out of their pocket. They purchase bulk licenses at discounted rates.

@Death I thought it was their T.V business?

@Death see this is what I'm talking about. You and the spin tactics are pathetic. If Sony goes bankrupt it wont be because the PlayStation took them down.

Last I checked that was the division of Sony doing the best. So please try harder next time. Like I say in several posts I play good videogames period. I was at a MS kiosk in the mall yesterday and tried out Killer Instinct. It was fun and I might get a X1 just for that game.

Call me a fanboy but at least I'm an informed fanboy and know the difference between value and BS. MS and people who support thier nickel and dime tactics make me sad for the American gamer population.

@Death

"Sony giving away content is part of the reason Sony is in trouble financially." - Even though that's very likely untrue seeing as the playstation division is one of better performing section for Sony as pointed out by theoneb.

So it's you are fine with a company that's in a better situation not offering you better value. Not only can match Sony with IGC if they wanted they could offer better games and extras. SMH if you don't find it wrong that the more financially able company is not able to offer to same/better value than a company that hasn't been in the best of position for years then there's no hope for you.